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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Lefties /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1380888521 Message started by WebsterMark on 10/04/13 at 05:08:41 |
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Title: Lefties Post by WebsterMark on 10/04/13 at 05:08:41 What happened to our lefty friends at this table? Did they bale because defending Hopey-change is an impossible task? Just wondering..... |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by mpescatori on 10/04/13 at 06:26:58 0F3D3A2B2C3D2A15392A33580 wrote:
Bale: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2012/5/22/1337704002029/A-bale-of-hay-008.jpg ::) Bail http://www.demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/1211/hummer-hummer-demotivational-posters-1352077616.jpg :-? We're getting odd news from you folks over the news... what's going on ? :-/ |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/13 at 07:22:45 Which set of lies is bothering you? If you wanna know whats going on here, go to Russia Today,, They seem to have the scoop on stuff.. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Serowbot on 10/04/13 at 23:36:39 Truth is,... I'm no longer participating in the TT.... It just saddens me... Look at the last 20 or 30 or 40 posts... We no longer argue ideologies, or direction... It is reality,... vs. some apocalyptic, global, conspiracy... It saddens me to see people that I know to be intelligent, and caring, fall into this state... I wish you well,... I leave you to it... We few lefties,.. didn't even discuss or come to agreement to do this... If you just reverse the roles for a minute,... you'll realize that there is no way argue this... Even the leaders of the right wing are wandering aimless.... It's practically biblical... The false idol,... is right wing radio, and conspiracy talk... If you believe it,.. you must swallow it all to keep faith... If you reject it... you have nothing... Don't bother to attack me... I'm not here... I'm only looking in to moderate... otherwise I've turned a blind eye... I have the greatest respect for the integrity of Jerry's brain,... of JOG's heart, and Midnight's courage... Corny,.. Actually all of your integrity... It just seems lost... There is just no way to argue this without being hurtful... and I don't like that... Anyone,.. JOG and Midnight in particular, PM me if things get out of hand in here... and I'll check in... Otherwise... I prefer to make jokes and give advice in the Cafe' and R-Side... Peace,... (I'm not the enemy... I'm not trying destroy America... I just want us to have healthcare,.. good jobs,.. safe homes, smart kids, retirement, clean streets,... and dignified lives)... This talk just truly depresses me,.. and makes my heart physically heavy... So much,.. that it effects me when I leave... It's just not healthy... I have enjoyed our discussions in the past... Serow |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Midnightrider on 10/05/13 at 01:16:05 Bot your last paragraph, I want the same even more because I have a family children and grandchildren. I just cant set back and let this country go in the direction its headed. I don't consider myself a leftist or a righty. I was more left after George Bush became a mass murderer. Now with Obama attacking the Constitution that's worked just fine for over 200 years I'm leaning back towards the right. I voted for change the first time so no one can ever call me a racist. I didn't know he was going to turn into a dictator and and try to destroy the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Our representatives are no longer representing us and all the things you hope and wish for in your last paragraph have been taken away from us or in the process of being taken away. The things in your last paragraph I also want for my children and grandchildren. I know you understand. Our government is nothing but a home for liars and thieves who only care about themselves, who are not accountable for their criminal activity and voting no longer works. You know I want health care, just not his plan. The more I read about it the madder I get. He could have just said Medicare for everyone and it would have already been over. I listen to both sides and I want people to disagree with me because I'm not always right. I wanna hear Web's side of it although right now I think he owes Star an apology and I hope he's man enough to do it. Star has had sickness in his family and been out of town. Star and I don't agree with everything but I recognize a good man when I hear him and this country is a lot better off because he has spent most of his life serving it well. He will always be a hero in my mind even if sometimes we don't agree on politics. As far as politics go I guess you could call me a Constitutionalist like Jog. If it aint broke don't mess with it. There are times it needed changing when we gave Blacks and Womens rights but right now our biggest problem is the economy and that has nothing to do with the Constitution or the Bill Of Rights. Obama's healthcare is going to make the poor people poorer and how many of our rights have been taken away or are trying to be taken away by the last two presidents. That just proves my opinion that neither party is right. I appreciate you calling me courageous but I'm a walking dead man anyway with my health problems and I would gladly fight to make this a better country for my family and my friends like you, after all you and I basically want the same thing. I don't want to see you leave because I really value your opinion. You're intelligent and you speak from your heart, that means a lot to me. On days I'm really hurting I can read one of your post and instantly feel better. You do a lot more good than you realize. All the people on this website are like a second family, theres a lot of days I cant get out and you can tell by my number of post. I'm human, there's some I like better than others but you will always be among the top of my list. When I feel bad I always look for your joke of the day. I want you to hang around, I'm on so many meds there's days I need babysitting LOL. I take 18 pills a day and I don't know if they have my dosage right or not LOL. I sincerely hope you stay my friend. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Midnightrider on 10/05/13 at 01:54:10 Web defending Hopey is just like defending Bush. Ones a mass murderer and the other is a communist liar. Come to think of it Bush told some whoppers to. PS WD If Hopey is a Facist or Marxist instead of a Communist please correct me. You're the expert! |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by WebsterMark on 10/05/13 at 04:23:12 Peace,... (I'm not the enemy... I'm not trying destroy America... I just want us to have healthcare,.. good jobs,.. safe homes, smart kids, retirement, clean streets,... and dignified lives)... So do I. In fact, all of us do. I see your way as destroying those things and you see my way as destroying those things. Hopey is not giving us healthcare, he's taking it away. He's not giving us jobs, there are fewer now than before. He's not making us more safe, he's ignoring issues and forget about smarter kids. Everything you say you want, he's doing damage to. Go figure.... |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by WebsterMark on 10/05/13 at 04:47:38 And I dispute the "last 30 or 40 posts" thing. Fact is, since Star and Sri have been gone for a while, it's been way different in here. Star has always been the one who lobs bombs first, Sri does as well. I have strong differences with jog and midnight but I've never gotten nasty with them because they never get nasty with me. The very essence of the TT is dispute. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by WebsterMark on 10/05/13 at 04:55:43 I wanna hear Web's side of it although right now I think he owes Star an apology and I hope he's man enough to do it. Midnight, the guy goes into a semi-pornographic rape/murder hypothetical description happening to my daughter while she's away to college (not the first time he crossed lines with people's children) and I'm suppose to apologize to him? Huh? Not gonna happen. But I don't wanna get hung up on him. I agree 100% that we are off course. There are a million things bad about Obamacare, not the least of which is the fact it forces more and more people to turn yet more of their lives over to a federal institution. The ugly fact is, so many people's health decisions will now be under the control of unelected bureaucrats. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Midnightrider on 10/05/13 at 13:49:11 Web we have had a pub and a dem president the last 4 elections. Both of them TOGETHER have taken away some of our rights and both of them TOGETHER have literally destroyed this country. This just proves neither party is even close to being right! Your party has had the man to do it, Rand Paul yet you insist on putting criminal moron liars up their to run. When a man refuses to show his tax info, has overseas accounts he refuses to pay taxes on, pays a less percentage in taxes than you and I do and complains to a nation of poor people his car elevator isn't working, never mind the 42% he's an idiot. He changed positions so many times it became a joke, etcha sketch. He totally agreed with Obama on foreign policy and both of them were wrong! I don't believe you'll ever catch Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders and Elisabeth Warren in a lie. The rest of em need to be kicked out of office forever. They have proven they cant do their jobs, Obama is a Socialist, Communist Facist and Marxist. WD I hope I got at least one of them right LOL. Both parties suck and until you realize that the country will continue on a downhill spiral. Warren Buffet and all the Big Wigs are dumping all their American stocks. The day is gonna come soon Russia and China will no longer accept the American dollar. Ron Paul predicted all of this several years ago. You guys had the goose with the golden egg in your back pocket and you blew it, true he might not have had enough support to beat Obama but running a crooked moron like Romney didn't get the job done either. I don't believe you'll ever catch Ron Paul in a lie and he wont change policies every other day. To make things fair there's plenty of idiots and crooks in the dem's. Like I said before neither party is headed in the right direction and until the majority of American people realize this we are in deep sh!t Its almost up to my nose. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by WD on 10/05/13 at 17:05:54 Marxist or Communist is correct. Hitler was a Socialist with Fascist leanings, same for the Italian guy who's name I can pronounce but not spell. The current German Chancellor/Premiere (forget which, I don't follow the news much anymore, too depressing) is a Socialist who is a bit fiscally conservative. The next time one of the western European nations in my ancestry has an "Americans, come home" repatriation event, I'm outta here. I'd rather live in a country that even though it has phenomenally high taxes has working infrastructure and social programs as a result. Instead of a nation that as a whole rewards greed, sloth, apathy and ignorance. You guys all know from an older thread in this section that I'm a National Socialist (Nazi). Fairly high ranking at that... American SS equivalent of a major. Several of my WW2 veteran great-uncles to their dying days regretting not going back to Germany to fight FOR the Reich instead of against it. I'm related to General Nathan Bedford Forrest. With the current state of affairs in this country, I know my days as a free man are numbered. Doesn't matter which of the Big 2 political parties is in office. I'm a throw back to an earlier, harder working, more responsible version of the USA. I don't belong here anymore... at least according to the powers that be... |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Starlifter on 10/05/13 at 19:26:06 "Midnight, the guy goes into a semi-pornographic rape/murder hypothetical description happening to my daughter while she's away to college (not the first time he crossed lines with people's children) and I'm suppose to apologize to him? Huh? Not gonna happen." WM "You guys all know from an older thread in this section that I'm a National Socialist (Nazi). Fairly high ranking at that... American SS equivalent of a major. Several of my WW2 veteran great-uncles to their dying days regretting not going back to Germany to fight FOR the Reich instead of against it." WD I don’t need this… I think Sero has the best solution for coping with the vitriol, hatred, and utter contempt expressed by a very tiny minority here. It’s no longer fun, no longer an exchange of points of view, and never civil. Good luck to my very good friends here. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by WebsterMark on 10/06/13 at 17:03:32 Ha ha! You're a riot! You're the biggest bomb thrower on here. If anyone says anything against your precious Hopey, you call them a racist. Now that's pretty freaking lowlife to label someone a racist, but you do it with ease. Yea, good solution for you. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/06/13 at 19:30:09 Yep,, I have vitriol, hatred, and utter contempt for the morons who, in their zeal to make everyones circumstances equal ruined America. With no concept of right & wrong, no grasp of freedom, liberty, responsibility,, just OHH mY,, they need help so Ill jam a gun in your ribs so youll help them,, give me a break,, Both sides suck the life out of humanity, stupid is held in high regard, criminal is royalty,, |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Tony S on 10/06/13 at 23:16:56 437176676071665975667F140 wrote:
The lefties - and this country - survived 8 years of Bush. The righties and this country will survive 8 years of Obama. Quit whining. Despite the hysteria, how health care is paid for is not the end of democracy in America. Last time I looked Britain, France, Germany - all of Western Europe actually; Japan, Finland, Australia (shall I go on?) have true government run health care from cradle to grave and they are all still democracies. I'm not even a true "leftist" - but close enough I guess with my neo-conservative views. I'm not around much because I took my Suzuki Savage apart and have sold about 1/2 of it on eBay. So I've no reason to be about on these boards. Perhaps others have similar reasons. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Tony S on 10/06/13 at 23:18:28 34293C2A3A382D362B30590 wrote:
Bale: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2012/5/22/1337704002029/A-bale-of-hay-008.jpg ::) Bail http://www.demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/1211/hummer-hummer-demotivational-posters-1352077616.jpg :-? We're getting odd news from you folks over the news... what's going on ? :-/[/quote] Certainly makes me want a hummer.... |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Midnightrider on 10/07/13 at 01:49:02 Tony if you study Obamacare (it takes a lawyer) its nothing like healthcare in Europe or Australia. I'm all for healthcare for everyone. I hardly ever hear anyone complain about Medicare. My Doctor of 15 years just quit, my rheumatologist is threatening to. It could end up costing over 25% of my salary. If you knew anything about Obamacare you wouldn't have said what you did and I believe the majority of Americans believe like I do once they found out what Obamacare really is, Affordable Health Care Plan, the biggest oxymoron I've ever heard.. I'm not whining, I just exercising my first amendment right of free speech before its taken away from me. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by WebsterMark on 10/07/13 at 05:02:44 Midnight's right, the BS plan Hopey has installed is nothing like the others. Perhaps the biggest reason is we are not like the other countries. And as a matter of fact, how healthcare is paid for very well might be the end of America. We are already metaphorically removing our balls and letting Uncle Sam do everything for us. Why not hand over one more task a man should do for his family? |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by mpescatori on 10/07/13 at 05:16:47 223D3B3C21261727172F3D317A480 wrote:
This set of lies. It's more news than the average European anchor can explain. http://us.cnn.com/2013/10/04/opinion/opinion-roundup-shutdown/index.html?hpt=us_mid The last time anything vaguely similar to this happened in Europe, it was in Germany with the Republic of Weimar... and Hitler followed soon after. Even oh-so-ridiculed Greece cut pay, not jobs, and most certainly never shut down any part of the Government. As for mocking Russia... dollar for ruble, the russian economy is one of the most bullish economies in this last decade. Bullish as in "growing stock market" etc. http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2010/3/4/256313-126773828311204-Daniel-Moser_origin.JPG |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Tony S on 10/07/13 at 06:22:39 63474A404749465A5C474A4B5C2E0 wrote:
See bold areas 1) Republicans in Congress in 1965 - like they are now - carried on like Medicare would the end of America and freedom when Medicare was being established. The exact same arguments. Bankrupt the country. Doctors would quit. Government would ration healthcare, assign people doctors. All the same crap we hear now. 2) Maybe your doctor 15 years was retiring anyway. In every business - when big changes come - many close to retirement go ahead and leave. Do you really think all these doctors are going to quit and go work at Starbucks? 3) The law passed in 2010. In 2011 Republicans made "repeal and replace" a central part of their 2012 campaign. Did you notice the election results? Obama WON reelection by a comfortable margin. The repubs LOST two seats in the Senate when they expected to win five or maybe six. Their majority was shaved by 6-8 seats (I forget) in the House. The referendum on the Obmacare has been held - and the PEOPLE have confirmed it. If you and most others worked where I did, you might not be so against it. The NEED was all to real. I personally spoke to people every week whose lives were ruined by health care bills they could not afford or health ruined because they were simply unable to afford health care they needed. I too - like you - would have preferred a national health insurance plan like Europe, Australia, Canada and darn near all western style democracies have. We got what we have BECAUSE Americans aren't like the rest of the world. A mix of incentives, subsidies, private insurance companies offering competing plans and an individual mandate represents something a majority would support. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by oldNslow on 10/07/13 at 08:31:42 Quote:
Except that a majority DON'T support what we wound up with. Particularly the individual mandate. Quite the opposite actually. And the reason we wound up with this colossal clusterf**k of a law has very little to do with addressing a need, and everything to do with politics as usual in that insane asylum on the banks of the Potomac. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/07/13 at 09:15:05 IDK who you think is mocking Russia,, it aint me,, I get some of my news outta there. I didnt know about their economy booming, just another + IMO. & BTW, I am not unhappy to see others do well,, Im just pissed that people who dont do what the Big C says to do are in control of our law makers, well,, they dont do what it says & they do what it says not to do.. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Tony S on 10/07/13 at 09:16:29 122C2D21332F2E400 wrote:
The old saying goes "figures don't lie but liars can figure" It's all in how the question is asked, what questions are asked and how you add the numbers up. Obama was comfortably reelected even though the Republicans tried to make it a referendum on "Obamacare" For the law in general, 17% oppose it because it did not go far enough. Those 17% - the true lefties this post mentioned, wanted government run cradle to grave health insurance. If those 17% are added to the people that support the law in full, you have a very, very solid majority. Individual aspects of the law enjoy nearly universal support. In the 80-90% range. Children on parents plan till 25. Preventive services being free. Insurance companies not allowed to exclude or charge more for pre-existing conditions. People everywhere always want the benefits and not the cost. So yes, 90% if the public thinks the bastard insurance companies shouldn't be able to charge them more or exclude them for preexisting conditions, while 60% oppose the individual mandate. The deal is simple. You cannot have a law that says insurance companies cannot charge more or exclude those with preexisting without some mechanism in place that has nearly everyone covered. Why? Because otherwise, people would ONLY purchase insurance when the were sick. Diagnosed with cancer? Buy a policy. $100,000 worth of treatment later - drop the policy. It's the law. It's not going to delayed, it's not going to be eliminated. It can be modified and made better in the years going forward. The majority of Republicans in the House know this but the party is now so dysfunctional it can no longer even police itself. The tea party representing the most conservative members have managed to put some fear into moderate, business minded elected representatives with primary challenges. So the party - against it's long term best interests and the wishes of it's leaders pick fights they cannot win, negotiate for things they don't even want and double down on "core conservative values" that are out of step with the mainstream views. I don't count myself as a Republican though I have voted for many over the years. I'm not glad to see this happening. America's form of representative democracy relies on a two party system with the minority party offering clear but democratic and civil alternatives. Shutting down the government. taking us to the point we won't even pay the bills we have run up, hysteria and demonizing those that disagree with you is little different than what the Fascists did in Germany in the 1930's. If we can't govern, we will just ball things up so bad nothing gets done. The Dems learned long ago (McGovern anyone?) to tell the loony left to sit down and shut the crappity smack up. Who else would they vote for anyway? Until the Republicans learn to do the same with the loony right, national elections are going to be disappointing for the GOP. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by oldNslow on 10/07/13 at 10:34:08 Quote:
Not sure what you mean by that but the list of polling data here convinces me that a majority of Americans in fact don't like this law: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html You are free to believe whatever you want, but I think you are mistaken. And I think that once the exchange websites are actually working properly, and folks begin to discover how expensive this so-called affordable insurance is going to be, and that it is going to cost them even if they decide not to enroll, and have to pay a penalty for not buying something that they decide they cannot afford, that alot more people are not going to be happy. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Midnightrider on 10/07/13 at 14:55:52 Their Obamacare computer in Washington wont work. I hope God has his hand on it! |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Midnightrider on 10/07/13 at 15:13:53 Thank you OS for the statistics! The media has lied long enough. No one in their right mind would sign up for Obamacare with better private policies. If you're being turned down for an existing cond. go to the hospital anyway. We'll sort it all out later. The credit bureau is not supposed to hold medical bills against you. Tony people are always scared of something new, this time they have a right to be. All that the King had to do was say Medicare (we know it works and its affordable)for everyone and the country would be fine. I'm disabled and I have a friend that is disabled. He opted for Medicare while I'm staying on my wife's private insurance. He keeps telling me I would come out better on Medicare so one day this week we are going to sit down and compare coverage and price. The only thing is right now I would have to depend more on the government than what I do if I went with Medicare. That's scary. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Tony S on 10/07/13 at 16:31:01 16323F35323C332F29323F3E295B0 wrote:
Lots of people wanted to just expand Medicare and/or Medicaid. There wasn't enough support for that because expanding one or both of those programs would be very close to a Europe or Canada model. Which is just Un-American and socialist and wrong. So instead a plan of having private insurance companies "compete" on the exchanges for individuals business was developed. A lot of people are going to get subsidies to purchase their plans. And for all the hollering and carrying on, the plan isn't going to affect most people getting insurance via their employer. It's not going to affect those that have insurance through VA or the military. Nor people already on Medicaid. Except of course in positive ways. My daughters BC pills used to be $72 - now they are free. My children can stay on my policy until age 25. Which gives them a few years after college to get a decent job with fringe benefits. What's really going to happen is what happened with Medicare - and that is what is scaring the crap out of the GOP. Jan 1 will roll around and it won't be that bad. And it will get better. And just like Medicare - all of a sudden there are going to be millions of registered voters that now have health insurance that didn't have it before. It will not be hard to figure out which party gets the credit given the popular name of Obamacare. 1965 Medicare was passed - with Republicans wailing away at the Federal power grab that would bankrupt the country, ration health care and have the government telling old people who their doctor was. IT WAS 30 YEARS LATER BEFORE THE REPUBLICANS CONTROLLED CONGRESS. Most of that 30 years they didn't control the Senate either. And that - believe it or not - is what has the repubs most upset. They have bet the farm on Obamacare being the great Satan that breaks this country. If it comes and goes and turns out to even be benign, they are in trouble. If people like it, they are crappity smacked as political party for another generation. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Tony S on 10/07/13 at 16:48:29 0937363A2834355B0 wrote:
One learns more by looking at the numbers more closely. Here is such a link: http://www.pollingreport.com/health.htm A few interesting tidbits 20% think the law did not go far enough in changing the health care system Most people (anywhere from 58-72%) oppose shutting down the government over differences of opinion on health care reform - including 48% of republicans Also interesting - do some searches: The approval rating for the Affordable Care Act is substantially better than the approval rating for Obamacare. Of course they are the same thing... |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by WebsterMark on 10/08/13 at 05:29:35 Also interesting - do some searches: The approval rating for the Affordable Care Act is substantially better than the approval rating for Obamacare. Of course they are the same thing... Doesn't that pretty much render all the other polls moot? Secondly, the fact so many Americans willingly turn over another facet of their lives they control to the Feds is a bad thing, not a good thing. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/08/13 at 09:49:24 I dont care if the approval rating is 99.999%,,rights are being violated by this crap. Everyone will suffer from loss of privacy, more goob intrusion & being extorted for ever increasing amounts of $$ to service a failing program, Print that & hang it on a wall,, |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Dane Allen on 10/08/13 at 13:08:34 1C2E29383F2E39062A39204B0 wrote:
There is nothing more despicable than an adult attacking a child!!! All ideologies and partisanship aside there is no excuse for this at all and this individual should not be allowed around children. There is nothing of value someone like that can contribute to civil discussion and, if he is gone, I say good riddance. Edit: changed society to civil discussion for the benefit of the faint of heart. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Dane Allen on 10/08/13 at 13:26:37 2D2123272D28222F3D267F4E0 wrote:
That is not an accurate comparison, Obama is the most radical, partisan liberal probably in our nation's history. The closest comparable Conservative in recent history would probably be Goldwater. Even Reagan wasn't as Conservative as Obama is Liberal. Bush, with his being a reactor to world events, No Child ligislation and massivle Part D expansion would probably be more appropriately classified as center left. Think about it, Democrats have shifted soo far to the left that Bush 2 and Romney look like rock-ribbed conservatives when they are really lenter left or even a strain of independant populist. Republicans celebrated the wild success of Reagan by running a string of consistantly waterdown conservatives to utter failure. Im mean, seriously, McCain??? Mr. Maverick... |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Tony S on 10/08/13 at 15:57:38 03262922062B2B2229470 wrote:
That is not an accurate comparison, Obama is the most radical, partisan liberal probably in our nation's history. The closest comparable Conservative in recent history would probably be Goldwater. Even Reagan wasn't as Conservative as Obama is Liberal. Bush, with his being a reactor to world events, No Child ligislation and massivle Part D expansion would probably be more appropriately classified as center left. Think about it, Democrats have shifted soo far to the left that Bush 2 and Romney look like rock-ribbed conservatives when they are really lenter left or even a strain of independant populist. Republicans celebrated the wild success of Reagan by running a string of consistantly waterdown conservatives to utter failure. Im mean, seriously, McCain??? Mr. Maverick...[/quote] I disagree. Obama has actually rather pissed of the "far" left who expected much more. Watered down health care reform that left all of the insurers in the game when what they wanted was national health care and one insurer - the US Government. No real effort on gun control. Tried for a little while after the rash of shootings but then walked away from it. Upped the ante in Afghanistan. Got us involved in Libya and was ready to do something similar in Syria. Defended the massive spying and wiretapping of average American citizens. Did not shut down Guantanamo as promised. Since both the loony left and the loony right despise him, I think he's likely right where he needs to be. And ahh, how quickly they forget. Johnson and the war on poverty. FDR and the New Deal. Both despised by conservatives in their day and derided as the end of democracy and more communist than socialist. There is no real scale against which to weigh if someone is as conservative as someone else is liberal, though it makes for interesting thought. Goldwater doesn't count as he was never president. Ronald Reagan talked and was labeled more conservative than his actions actually proved (a Republican I voted for, btw. You just couldn't help but like the man, even if you disagreed with some policies) - and history will record something similar for Obama. Labeled far left in his day but not really so. Because in 10 years, Obamacare is going to be no more controversial than Medicare is now. The party leaders of the GOP recognize this and would really rather drop the fight. But haven't the courage to stand up to the loony right. I'll repeat myself. The Dems learned their lesson with McGovern and told the Loony left to sit down and shut the crappity smack up. Until the Repubs get the balls to do the same, the GOP is in for an ugly time on the national level. |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by LostArtist on 10/08/13 at 16:28:44 I'm sorry I clicked on this thread. jeesh |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Tony S on 10/08/13 at 19:58:57 1734282F1A292F32282F5B0 wrote:
I'm sorry that you are sorry! :( |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Midnightrider on 10/08/13 at 20:34:27 Obamacare is going to cost 4 or 5 times as much as Medicare and the people its supposed to be helping cant afford it. I'm disabled and eligible for Medicare, they gave me the free part, 0,zilch. I chose to stay on my wifes insurance. I have a disabled friend who is on Medicareand its costing him $170 a month. He has another policy that pays what Medicare doesn't. Its 30 some dollars a month. His cpays are a lot less than mine. With my salary Obamacare would run over $400 a month with a huge deductible. This isn't the past, this is now and I cant afford it! |
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Title: Re: Lefties Post by Dane Allen on 10/09/13 at 10:35:04 64686A6E64616B66746F36070 wrote:
That is not an accurate comparison, Obama is the most radical, partisan liberal probably in our nation's history. The closest comparable Conservative in recent history would probably be Goldwater. Even Reagan wasn't as Conservative as Obama is Liberal. Bush, with his being a reactor to world events, No Child ligislation and massivle Part D expansion would probably be more appropriately classified as center left. Think about it, Democrats have shifted soo far to the left that Bush 2 and Romney look like rock-ribbed conservatives when they are really lenter left or even a strain of independant populist. Republicans celebrated the wild success of Reagan by running a string of consistantly waterdown conservatives to utter failure. Im mean, seriously, McCain??? Mr. Maverick...[/quote] I disagree. Obama has actually rather pissed of the "far" left who expected much more. Watered down health care reform that left all of the insurers in the game when what they wanted was national health care and one insurer - the US Government. No real effort on gun control. Tried for a little while after the rash of shootings but then walked away from it. Upped the ante in Afghanistan. Got us involved in Libya and was ready to do something similar in Syria. Defended the massive spying and wiretapping of average American citizens. Did not shut down Guantanamo as promised. Since both the loony left and the loony right despise him, I think he's likely right where he needs to be. And ahh, how quickly they forget. Johnson and the war on poverty. FDR and the New Deal. Both despised by conservatives in their day and derided as the end of democracy and more communist than socialist. There is no real scale against which to weigh if someone is as conservative as someone else is liberal, though it makes for interesting thought. Goldwater doesn't count as he was never president. Ronald Reagan talked and was labeled more conservative than his actions actually proved (a Republican I voted for, btw. You just couldn't help but like the man, even if you disagreed with some policies) - and history will record something similar for Obama. Labeled far left in his day but not really so. Because in 10 years, Obamacare is going to be no more controversial than Medicare is now. The party leaders of the GOP recognize this and would really rather drop the fight. But haven't the courage to stand up to the loony right. I'll repeat myself. The Dems learned their lesson with McGovern and told the Loony left to sit down and shut the crappity smack up. Until the Repubs get the balls to do the same, the GOP is in for an ugly time on the national level. [/quote] I agree with the Reagan part and am on the fence with McGovern. The left always wants more, they want it all, actually, and nothing short of total domination will satisfy them. What the left doesn't get is that the things you mentioned like Afganistan, Syria and wiretapping are the natural progression of power corrupting a politician. Obama, like most liberals, is in it for Obama and this is what big government types do when they get a taste of power. As to FDR, Medicare and Social Security, etc. not being controversial over time, I would respectfully disagree. They knew at the time that it wasn't sustainable and that by kicking the can someone down the road would fix it, so they get elected now by creating a problem that someone will absolutely have to fix later. Well, it is almost 100 years later, no one has fixed anything, we've been hearing about insolvency for decades and we are at what? 170 trillion in unfunded liabilities. It is unsustainable and I do believe it will become very controversial when the ratoning hits, the premiums skyrocket and all the lies told the sell this pig to the public come to light. I have lost three doctors already, two who returned to India just ahead of the worst parts of the rollout. As they say on Wallstreet - Past reults are not a predictor of future performance. That is, just because we have been able to drag these massive social wellfare programs this far doesn't mean we will be able to continue hauling this massive burden, especially if the burden continues to rapidly grow in size. |
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