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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> One small business's health insurance premiums /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1380825529 Message started by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/03/13 at 11:38:49 |
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Title: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/03/13 at 11:38:49 This morning our health insurance agent called to give me the news about the premium for our company plan. But first some background: We insure 3 people here at the law firm because all of the others are currently on spouses' plans. I have deal with all employees - if your spouses' plan is equal to, or better than our coverage, I'll give you 1/2 of the premium I save by your going on your spouses plan. We insure 4 people at the airport - same deal there, same savings sharing with employees who are on spouses' plans. Our current premium for really good Anthem coverage is about $2400 per month, all of which the companies pay, with no contribution from the employees. Starting December first, our increase will be 16% more - ouch, but we can live with that. Anthem told our agent that a year from now, they predict a 91% increase. So much for the Affordable Care part of ACA. And probably, the end of totally employer paid insurance for our people. And who wanted Obamacare? |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Midnightrider on 10/03/13 at 12:40:26 Looks like the Senate wanted it but see how many of them sign up for it. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Dane Allen on 10/03/13 at 15:50:53 And then we move to the point that it was never about health insurance but, rather, a vehicle to overthrow the Constitutional Republic and replace it with a Fascist, Socialist Police State. But you ask a gret question, where are all the rationed care, death panel lovers to defend The One??? |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/03/13 at 16:00:12 Dane - Socialist and Fascist anti antonyms. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by WD on 10/03/13 at 17:02:43 Socialist is in line with Canada, Great Britain, Germany, Spain and similar working health care systems. What we are being offered is more Marxist than anything else. People always confuse Socialism and Fascism. And Socialism with Communism/Marxism. Probably because the National Socialist Party was in fact more fascist, and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was in fact Marxist. Socialism and Marxism are diametrically opposed. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Midnightrider on 10/03/13 at 20:31:17 Interesting paragraph I read while ago "ObamaCare is the most intrusive legislation on businesses and private citizens ever signed into American law. Now, as the law’s unworkable intricacies are being exposed, Americans are becoming adamantly opposed to this tyrannical government healthcare scheme at a higher rate than ever before" I just love how the author explained it. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/04/13 at 06:45:13 Unfortunately, enough people were ignorant about Obamacare's impacts a year ago, or perhaps they would have voted Republican in order to quash it. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/13 at 08:27:46 The PEOPLE have made it clear enough,, they dont want this,,SOO,, the Dems should vote it down,,along with the bubs,, Those who say it is good Dont want it. This is proof that we are not in a REpresentative Republic,, But,, Im a radical,,because im not a brainwashed sheeple,. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/04/13 at 08:43:14 JOG - We do have a representative republic. It's the voters, those who think that the gov't is their provider and keeper, who have elected our representatives. Every election, more and more parasites and "do-gooders" find their ways to the polls - be it on an Acorn provided bus, or as a result of "get out the vote drives " by the Democrats. That's why it's so frustrating to me when guys like you and Midnight waste your voters on third party, or marginal candidates, only to make a silent point that only you hear. You keep telling people to wake up - my advice, respectfully, is that you guys wake up and vote Republican to try to stop the socialization of our country. Stop throwing your vote away in a senseless protest that never succeeds. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/13 at 08:55:59 Jerry, I beg to differ. When the "Representatives" vote for what the people DO NOTWANT, they dont represent the wishes of the people,. The voice of the [people has been ignored in DC since Kennedy was murdered, Id bet everyone here has listened to the politicians tell us all what theyll do "If Elected", watched them Get elected & then they go do things they said they were against,Ill bet even you have voted for people who didnt DO what they told you they would do.. so,, lets not blame the people. If the people were actually getting the results they wanted from their Voted For REpresentatives Congress wouldnt have such a low approval rating, Youre a smart guy.,,so, why do you need the obvious explained? |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/04/13 at 10:28:03 JOG - Obama, Ried, Pelosi, et al told us exactly what they would do, and have done it; at least on the domestic issues. Boehner likewise told the Ohio voters what he would do, and has done it. Problem is simple - too many Dems keeping their word to the kinds of people who vote for them. That is the obvious. The kinds of people who elected JFK weren't the kinds of people who vote for Dems today. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/13 at 10:41:56 Over the last 40 years the number who have told us the opposite of what they did has been overwhelming, & NO, Bammy didnt do what he said he would do,, well,, not the things we needed him to do,,he did what he said he would do w/ regard to destroying the coal industry,,but his broken campaign promises far outnumber the ones kept. As for the others,, IDK,, I DIDwatch Kennedy get re-elected when he shoulda been shuffled off, oiver & over,, Youre correct about the lefties voting us into pain, but the same pain is wrought by the bubs, just from different knives & stab wounds. Both parties have had control & opportunity to right the ship of state,They dont,, There IS a dark hand at the wheel,, or a coupla presidents were delusional.. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Paraquat on 10/04/13 at 11:11:38 I brought this up already. It's a thread I made called Accountability. Politicians can promise you the moon and there is no accountability whether they deliver or not. --Steve |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Midnightrider on 10/05/13 at 03:52:19 Jerry, Romney made his living buying companies, laying off good workers, stripping them bare and exiting with a golden parachute. He changed his position every other day to the point it was made into a joke. Etch A Sketch. He helped set up a decent health care plan in Mass but as soon as he become a presidential candidate he was against it. He had overseas accounts he never paid taxes on and he paid less taxes percentage wise than you or I did. He refused to show us his taxes for several years. Monsanto is trying to destoy the earth and its population. Its one of my most hated companies and when I found out he represented them that was the final straw. I know he was a businessman but I don't like the way he did business. A man running for president in a nation of poor people complaining his car elevator isn't working right. The 42%. Where is his brain? On the other hand you had a charismatic liar putting his hand on the Bible swearing to uphold the Constitution all the while trying to destroy it. He would keep us preoccupied with threats to take our guns away all the time secretly going after our First, Fourth and 10th amendment. Rahm Emanuel is one of the biggest crooks on the planet straight out of Goldman Sachs and him and Obama are real tight. As soon as Obama was elected he put one of Monsanto's big wigs on his board of advisers. Jerry I know you are a very intelligent man, I read your book and it taught me a lot about flying, could have saved my life back then. You're a lot smarter than I am but I would have written my dogs name in before I could bring myself to vote for either one of them. As far as I am concerned the lower middle class I live in Bernie Sanders, Elisabeth Warren and Ron Paul are the only honest ones who could have helped me. Ron Paul knows more about what the Federal Government is really for than any of the Congressman and as far as I know I believe he's told the truth. He wanted us to stop trying to control the world and worry about getting our own house in order which I strongly believe in. If we pull our overseas troops in and shut down our embassy's, quit letting the CIA arm our enemies and start minding our own business the only terrorist we'll have to worry about are in Washington. Jerry I respect your opinion but I couldn't vote for either one and you'll never convince me I did the wrong thing. Have a good day my friend. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Midnightrider on 10/05/13 at 04:15:50 If the Pubs will quit running clowns I'll vote for them. I voted for Bush the first time until he became a mass murderer. He admitted (and its on You Tube) he didn't care anything about catching Obama. I've been a Republican all my life until Bush's second term. They have racial morons like Rush, the world would be a lot better off without that man. The Tea Party is financed by the Kochs, they've got rich and left a major trail helping destroying their part of the planet. I'm not saying the Dems don't have idiots too. Obama got in with a lot of the white vote. If Hillary gets to run the next president will probably be Republican, only the minorities and the moochers will vote for her if Obama doesn't lead us into a civil war and destroy the country by then. He almost has now. Warren Buffect and all the big wigs are dumping American stocks at an alarming rate. China and Russia are looking for a new currency to replace the American dollar and most of the European country's have removed all the gold they had over here. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by WebsterMark on 10/05/13 at 04:16:41 The problem is perfectly illustrated in Midnight's reply. There is practically nothing remotely true in it, yet millions believe it to be the truth. The vast majority of our problem lays at the feet of our "independent" media. The have selected sides making it impossible for a fair discussion of ideas. If a Republican had done the things Hopey's done, it would be front page news 24/7 and he would never get electedor re-elected. How Romney lost despite the fact every economic indicator was down after 4 years of Hopey is a mystery to me. Sorry, but anyone who paid attention and voted for Hopey a second time is an idiot, flat out an idiot. I vote Republican because I think their positions are morally superior and their economic ideas make far more sense than the Democratic alternatives. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/05/13 at 10:35:17 Midnight - I don't where you get your facts, but I don't believe most of them. And, please, not from some website or political blog. I have to agree with WM - none of those assertions is true to my knowledge. The American gov't is the biggest of big business - it has to be run like a business. Unfortunately, our national CEO at present has never even run a kid's lemonade stand - that's the problem. You have every right to your opinion of Monsanto or any other company, but having represented them doesn't disqualify a man who pulled the American Olympics out of the fire and saved it from being a national debacle and made it into two weeks of national pride. I have represented many clients whom I can't stand to be around on a personal level. No man ( since 2,000 years ago ) is perfect, and certainly no candidate is. What you have to do is look at the big picture, and it sure isn't pretty now. McCain made a huge mistake selecting Palin, and I knew it when he did it, but again unfortunately, our party has to at least mollify the far right. Selecting Palin was simply an attempt to do that, since, as we all know, the vice presidency is virtually unimportant, again in the big picture. But for her selection, I think McCain would have won. My bet is different from yours - Hillary will be the next POTUS, unless something drastic happens in the next 3 years. Women will flock to her like blacks flocked to Obama. Liberals all love her, and she certainly carries the mystique of Bill, who, except for the Constitutional prohibition, could still be Pres. So, I vote for the party, its platform, and the totality of its beliefs; seldom do I vote for "the man/woman" running. I support what he/she stands for in the big picture, rather than picking out little nuances here and there which may be negatives. I think I may have voted for a Dem judge a couple of times, but I never vote for a Dem running for any office of power in the legislative or policy making sense. My wife and I we talking about this very thing this morning, how the parties are so divided now. I commented that 50 years ago, it was JFK who pushed for the investment tax credit to get manufacturing going again after the slowdown of the 1950s. Why can't today's Dems be more like Truman, Kennedy, even LBJ? To me, it's simple: 50 to 60 years ago our nation was almost totally homogenous, except for two splits; black and white; and Catholic and Protestant. Except for those divisions, and the second one wasn't much of one, we were the descendants of European immigrants, we were 90+% of Christian beliefs and heritage, and that religious commonality crossed over the black-white line. In essence, we were one people. None of that is true today. Democrats have become the party of those sectors of the population that didn't even exist in Truman's time, except for blacks. There were no Muslims, there were no Latinos in the numbers that we have today, there were no Indians, Asians, etc. who demanded to preserve their own religions and cultures, and who expected us to bow to those desires, and call Christmas vacation in our schools "winter break" now. We sang Christmas carols in my elementary school in the weeks leading up to Christmas, we had a Christmas program from our high school choir, and I bet yours did too, performing religious music. Think a school can do that now? Hardly. 50 years ago the Jewish population, whom I have always respected, kept their own religion, culture, and customs without asking the Christian majority to forgo ours. Today, it is the Republican party who is trying to cling to, and perhaps return us to, what worked for 200+ years. The Dems try to separate us into factions, opposed to each other. As the black/white divide has finally started to wane, and will disappear in our children's lifetimes, we could be a great people again if we would only practice our national motto E Pluribus Unum, which is One From Many. But the Dems will never go there again. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by LostArtist on 10/08/13 at 16:46:04 yay for straight line party vote, no need for thinking anymore!! awesome! :P |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Midnightrider on 10/08/13 at 21:31:29 Jerry I agree with a lot of what you said about the Dems, especially JFK. I get a lot of information off different sources because I cant work and hate most of TV. My Doc has chewed me out saying its ruining my eyes, staying on the computer. What little bit around the home I can do doent amount to much. What everyone has to realize is BOTH of the last two presidents have ruined this country. Quit this Republican is right mentality and become a free thinker. You know Bush attacked the wrong country. You know Obama is 5 points shy of being a Communist Dictator. I've seen You Tube Video's of OBama and Michelle admitting he's from Kenya but I wont post them because I know videos can be staged. I've seen his birth certificate on You Tube without the Hawaiian Stamp on it but it also could have been staged. I print and paste only what I believe is the truth and if you can ever prove I'm wrong please do so. I consider whats left of me a man and I can take it if I make a mistake.Some post I don't necessarily believe in but I throw them out for discussion because I like to hear yours and everyone elses reply. Other than Obama care I don't believe we would be better off with Romney. You've already preached to me about him being a businessman but I despise the way he did business and who he represented. You're a business man and you're good to your employees from what I hear, but I'm afraid the majority aren't like you. Anyone who agrees with any party needs to rethink their position. Obama just plain sux!. If he's not allowed to raise the debt ceiling he's threaten to take away the old peoples Social Security. Notice none of them ever try to cut back on military spending and foreign aid, that's out of the question. He pledged to uphold the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and He's trying to destoy them. As far as I'm concerned Obama is the biggest terrorist threat we have right now. Ron Paul had the only plan that could begin to dig us out of this hole we're in.Years ago that might have worked but the last two presidents have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that both parties can totally ruin this country. Support your Congressmen fighting Obamacare and pray for the truckers OCT 11th, more on that later. Best wishes my friend |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Tony S on 10/08/13 at 21:46:45 0A2E23292E202F33352E232235470 wrote:
I really like this post. And the central point - in response to third party candidates - is well said and valid. You are not throwing away your vote no matter who you vote for. It does send a message - and the message matters. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Midnightrider on 10/08/13 at 21:52:21 Thank you Tony! I'm not always right but I say what I believe. Don't hesitate to correct me if you believe I'm wrong, I can take it. I believe this forum is about exchanging ideas. Hear lately its become my way or the highway and I hope it turns into a peaceful exchange of ideas again. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Midnightrider on 10/08/13 at 22:30:54 Web I didn't vote for either one and I'm proud I didn't. Other than Obamacare Romney would be doing the same hole, burying us deeper. He made all kinds of promises (Obama did too) like the 12 million new jobs but he never explained how he was going to do it. He changed positions every other day until it became a joke, Etch A Sketch. Complained to poor people about his car garage not working, the 42% deal and I can go on and on. Of course most of the blacks voted for Obama and a lot of people with a conscious that were tired of pubs slaughtering innocent people voted for him. There was only one man capable of starting to dig us out this hole we're in and its a crying shame your party refused to acknowledge him or his plans for our future. Instead you run clowns Warlord McCain, Sarah Palin, RMoney who raped companys and sent thousands of jobs overseas, not to mention representing Monasnto, Paul Ryan who is nothing but a common thief trying to steal from the poor.The whole time who were (there's no call to use the word idiots on this forum) highly misinformed? I think its your party If you really want to do something about Obamacare rent us a truck for Oct 11 and I'll ride with you and we'll shut down Washington for a few days and maybe they will get the message and back off on Obamacare. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Midnightrider on 10/08/13 at 22:46:35 Jerry pretty soon we are going to be a minority and the pubs will all but be gone. You're just gonna have to forget about Christmas Carols and religion.. I read in the news today about Japan no longer wanting to take our dollar to pay off the 10% of the debt we have accumulated we owe them. That's what we should be worried about, not trying to bring back the past because it will never happen. I'm 59 years old but I'm wise enough to realize our glory days are over. The Christian's and the Whites are fast becoming a minority and its gonna get a lot worse. If you wanna do something pray for the truckers Oct 11. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Tony S on 10/09/13 at 06:16:34 6768646E6568636F687F6A687F0D0 wrote:
I'm not sure where to even start on this post. To begin with, I now take into account the world you live in when I read your posts. Your life sir, is better than most. Far better I suspect. And this good life - which you no doubt deserve and work hard for - brings with it a lack of perspective for how the other half live. The annual insurance benefit supplied by your company ($28,800) is actually HIGHER than the average wage in America (about $26,500) Think about it. If you didn't pay your employees a single dime, their health insurance alone is worth almost 10% more than what most peoples wages are. You say you provide your employees a "really good plan" - as well it should be since it is defined by the ACA as a "Cadillac Plan", one costing over $27,500 for a family plan. Here's more gas to the fire for you - your company will be paying an excise tax on the amount over 27,500 that you spend on employee health plans. In the way of additional information, the national average employer sponsored premium costs last year was $16,351. I worked for the State of Indiana. You know, state government, good fringe benefits. The total annual premiums for health insurance this year for a family ranges between $17,000-$20,000. Employees pay about 1/3 of that cost. You say the ACA may end employer paid in full health insurance. It ended for most of us a decade ago. You tell us that in an alarming fashion that your agent "predicts" a 91% increase. Predicting ain't the same as being - ask Romney, ask Gore. Perhaps you might come back in a year and tell us what really happened. Maybe you ended up as a result of health care reform able to purchase a similar plan for LESS money from some insurer other than Anthem. That's the whole idea - empowering people and employers to shop around by creating an open market where insurers compete for business. Health care reform was never about those with employer provided health insurance - the vast majority of which (80%) will see little change next year. It was about people making $25,000 a year with either no employer offered insurance or an employer plan that costs 10K a year and the employee was paying 60% of that. That would be $600 a month - or about 30% of their gross wages and more like a 40% of take home. Not affordable. Their are tens of millions of these people. You see them every day. Asking you "how can I help you" when you walk into an office. Serving your food at restaurants. Answering your questions about the big screen TV you are looking at. Doing the brake job and installing tires at the tire store. I don't really blame you for looking through them - most do. But they are all around you. And you have apparently no idea that people actually live like that. Jimmy Carter said it well. If you don't want the government to help the poor - quit saying you want a nation based on Christian values. Because you don't. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/09/13 at 07:19:20 Tony - Either I wasn't articulate, or you misunderstood my post. That $2400 per month premium is for all employees, not per employee. I am a big fan of Anthem. Nine years ago I had 2 stents in one of my coronary arteries. I forget what the total bill was, but it was well north of $45K. Anthem paid it all but about $1K. 18 months ago one employee's wife was diagnosed with stage 4 uterine cancer. Two major and serious surgeries, 6 rounds of chemo. So far, she is cancer free now. I have no idea what that all has cost, but it has to be north of $100K. The family paid $4K out of pocket - Anthem paid the rest - no hassle, no delays, no problems. So, I'll stick with Anthem as long as possible. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/09/13 at 08:03:39 Tony - As a relative newcomer to this section that I started back in the summer of 2008 to discuss the presidential campaign then ongoing, you may have missed a few facts. You comment that I have no idea that people live on a $25K annual income. Granted, I earn substantially more than that. But I am the son of a father who died while I was in high school, the son of a mother who never graduated from high school and who worked as a payroll clerk in a factory, and the son of these two parents who never owned their own home; I grew up in rental housing. So, please don't assume that I don't realize that some folks live on the edge - I did for my first 22 years of life. Instead of continuing in their footsteps, I chose to go to college and work full time at the same time so I would not have to borrow money. I took 4 years to get thru law school instead of the normal three, again so I could work full time while in law school. Therefore, I do know what it's like to live from hand to mouth. I don't bring up these things to brag; rather, I bring them up to correct your obvious misconception. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Tony S on 10/09/13 at 09:16:54 616E6268636E65696E796C6E790B0 wrote:
My apologies :-[ $600 a month is (2400 / 4 employees) is fairly inexpensive insurance. I have jumped to conclusions and that is wrong of me. I get a lot of calls about the ACA and changes because of where I worked. I have spoken to several different people with private policies where the premiums are increasing like you said - or really it's more the policy they had will not exist next year. These are policies that are basically catastrophic policies - they really don't cover a lot otherwise. They keep you from going bankrupt in the event of a heart attack or cancer but if you are diabetic/high blood pressure / any chronic condition you can go broke buying your meds. These are often - right now - the only types of policies people with chronic conditions can purchase. And even then they are often purchased in state mandated high risk pools. From an insurers perspective, why would you want to sell a policy to a 55 year old overweight male with a medical history of being diabetic for the last 15 years? Just a coronary bypass waiting to happen. The ACA establishes a minimum level of coverage that insurers have to meet that includes a lot of "wellness" or preventive care. This costs money and raises the premiums and/or eliminates the catastrophic plans. From the health of a nation - this makes sense. It's no different than the routine maintenance on nearly everything else in this world. Take care of little problems before they become big ones. I don't know if this is what your Anthem policy is like or not. Both of the events you describe were catastrophic in nature. Only you know if the policy covered annual physicals, pap smears, mammograms, colonoscopies, insulin, birth control and what your prescription benefits were like. An before someone says it: Yes, the government is now going to make some people buy more insurance, better insurance than they want. But then the government makes us do lots of similar things. Most states have a vehicle inspection program and make people fix emission systems on cars that appear to run fine. Replace perfectly serviceable windshields that have a small crack. The federal government builds and makes me pay roads I'll never travel on, airport safety when I never fly, parks I'll never visit. It's just one more thing where "we are all in this together". |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Tony S on 10/09/13 at 09:32:06 2B24282229242F232433262433410 wrote:
My apologies. You and I lived very similar lives by the way - but have ended up with very different views. Grew up on the very low end of middle class - father a factory worker, mother part time nurses aide and later had a daycare in her home. I was the first in the family to go to college and worked full time the entire time. Paid room and board to my parents while doing this because they needed they needed the money and because they wanted me to understand the value of money and work. Financially, God has been very good to me and my family the last 25 years. I guess what separates us is a belief that everyone can do the same as we did. Go to college while working full time, pull yourself up by your boot straps and achieve success. I believe that the tables are tilted against a lot of people. Some people just don't have the God given ability or intelligence. The guy working at Discount Tire, doing the oil change and rotating your tires I think matters just as much as the successful lawyer - or in my case manager. Unfortunately rotating tires and changing oil - even doing brake jobs and mufflers - doesn't pay well. $10 an hour at the Discount tire and small garage type places. The fact they only make $10 and hour doesn't mean they don't deserve or need decent health insurance It does mean they cannot afford it. So just what is the solution for them right then? Not seven years later after law school, not ten years later working at a dealership where it pays better. I believe it comes down to you either give darn about other people - including the people not like you, people that don't have as much as you - or you don't. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/09/13 at 10:05:04 Tony - Much of what you said makes perfectly good sense. But as a die hard conservative, I don't like gov't intervention in purely personal choices. For instance - auto liability insurance is required in all states to protect the other guy I may injure in an accident. I don't have to buy collision or comprehensive coverage on my own car - I can self insure that car itself if I so choose. I see no reason to require health insurers to pay for birth control pills, unless medically needed to regulate hormones, as some women need them for that purpose. And this isn't just a Catholic talking - there are effective and much cheaper ways to contracept - condoms and diaphragms still work to my knowledge; Yes, I won't drive on a federal highway in Alaska, for instance. You got me on that one. Yet, more and more newly built roads are now toll roads - like the new bypass around the northwest side of Denver, CO, from the airport up to Broomfield, that I traveled on 2 weeks ago. Those who use it pay for it. Of course, all people matter as much as anyone else. You've missed my past rants on why health insurance is so much more expensive now - the miracles of modern medicine. 40 years ago with my clogged cardiac artery, by now I'd either be dead, in a wheelchair, or barely able to walk 25 feet without stopping to ease the heart pain. Instead, now I jog, ride a bicycle, and after the mandatory 6 month waiting period, was cleared to resume flying. Without doubt, even 30 years ago, the lady with the uterine cancer would be dead by now. Even 18 months ago, one doctor suggested she investigate hospice care before much longer. Instead, so far, she's totally healthy. Of course, we won't know for another 3 1/2 years if she'll make it long term, as 5 years is the "magic bullet" for most cancer survivors. My mother died of cancer, 30 years ago. I contribute quite heavily to cancer research, and have lots of contacts at one of the country's premier cancer hospitals, The James Cancer Hospital at Ohio State University. One of my friends there seriously predicts, with all of the money now going into research, that we'll beat most types of cancer in the next 10 years. That won't be cheap. All of this is why medical care is now so expensive, and of course, health insurance premiums have to keep pace with the costs of paying the claims. And before anyone thinks that doctors' incomes are driving up costs, quite the opposite is true. Most docs earn, in constant dollars, less today than in the last 40 or 50 years. While I grant you that there are those unfortunate souls have suffer from lesser than normal intelligence, I bet that the average person we would call "working poor" like your examples of the guy at Discount Tire could, if he were motivated, substantially improve his financial lot in life. He has made a choice - work a 40 hour week at a job that really didn't even require him to finish high school, while I at age 66 still put in an average of 60 hours per week, and have no intention of slowing down. He could get a 2 year vocational education at a community college, at night, to get a job that pays a whole lot better. But will he put forth that minimal effort? Yet, I also realize that we need sanitation workers and tire changers. I don't pretend to have all of the answers, yet I do know that I abhor gov't mandates of what to do with my personal life and its choices. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Dane Allen on 10/09/13 at 11:00:34 Quote:
Just to illustrate a difference between Conservatives and Liberals. Jimmy, as most liberals do, believes that the government is the nation and the people are under the government. Conservatives belive the nation is the people and the government is under the people. Bureaucracies do not have Christian values or any other values, they are not people. Citizens have values and government is just one tool to express those values. That Jimmy Carter thinks the only way citizens can express their Christian values is through government invervention is very telling about Carter and his disdain for anything/anyone not directly tied to the government. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/09/13 at 12:18:26 I would say that IF the goobs didnt steal us blind, we would all have more $$ with which to BE charitable..It is not the place of a government to dole out $$. Unless a local group does so locally,, it is not the feds job at all. The Big C lays out their job. They dont DO their job & they DO what isnt their job,, |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Tony S on 10/09/13 at 12:22:40 38373B313A373C303720353720520 wrote:
Nice post. Much we could agree on. Much we could disagree on but in a very civil matter. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Tony S on 10/09/13 at 12:33:39 7F6066617C7B4A7A4A72606C27150 wrote:
Sometimes I'm not at all sure what you are saying. Bush Sr spoke passionately and I believe with conviction about "A 1000 points of light" which was local community organizations working in hand with government to achieve good. He encouraged Americans to "get involved" as an expression of patriotism Trouble is, no one steps up with the $$$. Here in Evansville we have one (sorta) free health clinic. Not enough doctors volunteer their time. Not enough people with money give. A lot of people - the vast majority I think - when they have more money in their pockets do not first think they should give more to charities. The rich especially LOVE money. The Bible calls it the root of all evil. It's not your sentiment I would disagree with. It's the reality you suggest. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Tony S on 10/09/13 at 12:36:43 063433222534231C30233A510 wrote:
This thread obviously interests me. Thanks Jerry for starting it. See the bolded sentence. If this is a serious question - not rhetorical - I can answer it in just a paragraph. Two at the most. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/09/13 at 13:18:50 Tony - Civility matters to me - a lot. If you've encountered a guy on here named Starlifter, I've come to know him over the past 5 years. He refers to himself as democratic socialist. No two people are farther apart, politically, than he and I. Yet we have become friends, because we treat the other's views with respect. You can respect an honest person with whom you don't agree, as you have demonstrated already. Actually, the richest of the rich are the most charitable - Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are shining examples, as are most in their league. The stingiest of all are the wannabes - those is the upper middle income class who are living beyond their means. The cancer hospital at OSU that I mentioned earlier was endowed by Dr. Arthur G. James, a wealthy man here in Columbus, and a doctor in oncology. An even wealthier man, Richard Solove, endowed the Solove Research Center, the research arm of the cancer hospital. The entire OSU medical complex is named The Wexner Medical Center, for Les Wexner, the chairman of The Limited Stores, where my wife and daughter shop sometimes, who gave millions to the university, earmarked for the hospital. The list could go on and on - another is St. Jude Children's Hospital, endowed by the late actor, Danny Thomas. My point is simple - the truly rich are generally very charitable. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Midnightrider on 10/09/13 at 13:39:15 Jerry the same goes for me when it comes to Star. We have PMed and Emailed each other numerous times. He served this country well even after Viet Nam. This country is a lot better off because of Star. He did things I couldn't begin to stomach and no matter what his politics are he will always be one of my heroes. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/09/13 at 17:24:35 Whaaaat? We havent had our military in anyting that mattered to US in my life.,. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Midnightrider on 10/10/13 at 23:37:39 Tony I didn't vote for Obama the second time. The pubs run a man that made a living shipping jobs overseas, raping companies and leaving with a golden parachute, represented Monsanto, complained to poor people his car elevator would not work and the dumba$$ remark about the 42%. He agreed with everything Obama said about foreign relations, I and 80% of the country are sick and tired of foreign relations and people were tired of mass murderers like Bush.Your party practically elected Obama and you had the answer to lowering the debt and getting out of foreign relations right under your nose. I wrote in Ron Paul on the last election, your candidate would just created more problems like Obama. |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by LostArtist on 10/11/13 at 19:56:11 55717C76717F706C6A717C7D6A180 wrote:
why didn't you vote for Gary Johnson and give the Libertarian party another stat, makes as much sense as a write in |
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Title: Re: One small business's health insurance premiums Post by Midnightrider on 10/13/13 at 15:30:40 LA, I never heard of Gary Johnson. Wasn't Ron Paul a Libertarian he just changed to Pub to be able to debate, he knows this country isn't ready for him, too many die hard party voters but he wanted his opinions to be heard.Just read an article on Tea Party.org (not everything they print can be considered the truth). This article said the people want 60% of ALL the politicians in Washington to be fired. Also said term limits should be reduced. Career politicians no longer have our best interest at heart. I could go for that LOL although there's a few Congressmen who will still stand up for the working man. LA to be honest I've never studied the Libertarian Party and what they stand for, maybe that will be my project for tomorrow. When I first came on this forum going on 5 years ago I was a leftist because our president was a liar and mass murderer. Now I'm swinging to the right because we have a muslim communist dictator who is trying to socialize the country and drive us deeper in debt. Really I just call myself a Constitutionalist because Obama has tried to do away with the 1rst, 2nd, and 4th amendment plus he's a huge liar. Hear impeachment talk everyday but Biden is probably the only thing saving Obama. No one wants him for President. |
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