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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Starting up an old 1986 savage /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1379907256 Message started by NCSUindy09 on 09/22/13 at 20:34:16 |
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Title: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by NCSUindy09 on 09/22/13 at 20:34:16 Hey guys, I'm new to the forum. I just want to explain a little bit about myself and my bike. I live in Raleigh, NC. I don't have much mechanic experience, the little bit I have is from doing maintenance on my car. I do however have the internet, a clymer manual, and appropriate tools. I'm really willing to put in the amount of work needed to get this bike running (if it's worth it.) I am an industrial engineering major junior at NC State university and I'm repairing my dad's 1986 savage to ride to class. The bike has been sitting indoors for at least four years. It was running at some point around then, but not frequently. There is no battery. The front suspension leaks oil and might be pitted. It doesn't look too severe to my untrained eye. I can shift through the gears and the brakes seem to work. There was unwinterized gasoline in the tank for some long amount of time which I have drained out. When I was doing it, I switched the petcock to 'on' with the fuel line going into the carburetor and gas started leaking from somewhere below the carburetor onto the floor pretty rapidly. I emptied the gas tank into a fuel can using the fuel line. I took the seat off and checked the fuses and noticed one was broken. I'll probably replace the fuse and test the electrical system with my car battery tomorrow. If that goes well then I'll buy a battery and test the spark plug. Then maybe some cleaning and a photo op. Basically, I want to know some things to check to determine the overall cost/difficulty of repair and the priority of repairing these things. I will try to be active in this forum and update frequently. Any information or recommendations you guys can give me would be great. I look forward to working on this bike and learning more about it. |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/22/13 at 22:50:17 Ya know,, NO Gas, just checkin spark,, not a bad plan,,IF you have spark, then gettin thegas to stay in it, If the old battery is as dead as I suspect, dont leave it hooked up when you getready to start it, It will load the charge system real hard . Of course, fresh oil is in its future., Alook in the tank, for rust, Gas running in places not considered good can be a problem, These petcocks have been known to allow gas into the carb& even into the crank case, diluting the oil.. not good, |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by mpescatori on 09/23/13 at 02:20:04 Hi. Had a similar experience after leaving my bike unchecked in my own garage for the better part of... 18 months... 1. Ditch the old battery, it's hopeless... 2. Drain thegas (you've done it, ok) you can recycle it in your car ;) just remember to top to "full" at the gas station, you don't know what chemically happened to the old gas... :-/ 3. Get a can of WD40 or similar, spray a looong dose (10 secs or so) in the cylinder through the spark plug hole (taking the tank off will help) Leave it to soak in overnight. This is to help the piston unglue itself from the cylinder walls. Good for the piston rings too ;) AND helps when starting for the very first time. 4. I advise against using a car battery for the bike's electrical system, it has such a huge surge current you could fry wires right through, whereas a small (moped or similar) 12V battery will eventually only fry the fuse ;) 5. BEFORE trying out the starter motor, pull the spark plug, engage 2nd gear and push/pull the bike back and forth a few feet; you should hear the typical "chuffchuff" sound as the air is sucked in and pushed out of the cylinder. That is good. BUT if you hear any scraping - squeaking sounds... :-X... aren't you glad you were merely pushing the bike rather than starting it ? ::) 6. Once all these tests have proven OK; only after you've renewed those few inches of fuel line with new rubber; only after spark plug and solenoid have shown to produce a nice string spark; pour a quart or so of fuel, turn petcock to "prime", give it 15" to fill the carburetor bowl, pull the starting knob and give her a try. She may stutter and die out, just avoid gunning the throttle, she should start. 8-) Best of luck. PS Once it's "all systems go" may I suggest you replace the stock petcock with a Raptor. |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by Demin on 09/23/13 at 04:37:21 And after all that.If the fuel still runs out,you also may have a bad needle and seat in the carb.The needle on these have a rubber tip.I just bought one at the local stealership.It was about 30 bucks.Be careful pulling the float bowl off and you can reuse the seal on it. You'll probably need to clean the carb anyway. |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by NCSUindy09 on 09/23/13 at 06:20:33 Thanks for the advice guys. I'll check some of these things tonight and keep you all posted. Thanks for the quick reply. |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/23/13 at 07:15:36 Hey,, just ditch my reply & go with Pescatori's answer.. Its much better. Good answer, Pesci, Snatsafrazzin ritsafrappin ding dang FURRINERS Innyway! |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by Demin on 09/23/13 at 15:54:19 66797F7865625363536B79753E0C0 wrote:
Words of wisdom,couldn't have said it better. ;D |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by gizzo on 09/23/13 at 16:27:54 Apart from rolling back and forth. I'd just be rolling "forth" on an '86 without the torque limiting starter gear, right? |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by NCSUindy09 on 09/23/13 at 19:01:46 I got the bike to start today. Fresh battery and fuse. There was enough oil and the gas tank wasn't rusty. It would barely idle and would knock off when revved. I think it just needs the carburetor cleaned. I'm thinking of buying a rebuild kit, any recommendations? |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/23/13 at 22:54:22 Yea, Dont,, just take it apart, clean it up, have a look at the jets,,you may clean them up, you may decide to change them.. Be aware, those arent #2 philips.,You can Use a #2 phillips, BUT,, ya gotta blunt the tip off till it lets the X land down in the slots all the way. Youll be way ahead with a hand held impact if you dont have a power tool impact. http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/160x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_13794.jpg Mechanics need tools,, Anti seize is one of the tools I keep in my shop. Very handy when working on a bike, cuz thereare so many places where steel bolts screw into aluminum,( aluminium for those across the [pond) |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by NCSUindy09 on 09/24/13 at 06:22:52 Ok thanks. I don't have an impact driver but I'll see if I can find one of those bits at the store and maybe borrow one from a mechanic friend. Another question: the front suspension. How can I tell if it's good enough for a test ride? It leaks oil and it's slightly pitted. I figure I would have to replace the seals, but should I bother with trying to smooth out the forks? If I go over to work on it today I'll take some pics and post them. The front suspension goes down and comes back up when I lean on it with the front brake on. After I clean the carb and take care of the forks I think it's ready to get inspected. Then I have to get a motorcycle license and update my insurance. Thanks everyone for your help, I wouldn't have been able to do any of this alone. After hearing the bike start and idle yesterday I've been constantly thinking about it just dying to get back in the shop. Such a great feeling. -Ryan |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/24/13 at 06:31:42 If its pitted youre gonna need to adress that. That will cut new seals. Also, be careful spankin on bolts in an unsuported, cast aluminum bit.. they can break..That impact costs a whopping FIVEDollurz.. |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by NCSUindy09 on 09/24/13 at 19:04:24 I removed the carb and took the entire thing to a car mechanic friend to have it cleaned. He came with me and we put the carb and gas tank back on. We started the bike and the idle sounded much better. However, it would knock off after revving. It would backfire after knocking off. My mechanic friend tried to stop it from doing that by adjusting the mix using the gold screw at the front of the carb. We couldn't get it to run smoothly after being revved although the idle sounded fine. I haven't done my research yet on why this is happening but I'm going to start digging now. |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by NCSUindy09 on 09/24/13 at 20:02:47 Ok so I read a lot about tuning the carb and adjusting the idle speed. I'm going to give it another shot tomorrow now that I know a little more about it. Hopefully I won't have to take the stubborn carb out again. If I can't get that to work I might just take it to a professional. |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/24/13 at 21:34:23 Lookat the TEV stuff in the tech section. Dont ;let the gas slap shut Make sure the idle ius high enough. It will die coming off the gas if its toolow |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by NCSUindy09 on 09/25/13 at 05:37:14 Alright yeah I read about the TEV last night and I thought it might be the culprit but I didn't want to assume that was it. I'll have to wait until tomorrow to fiddle with it. Thanks |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/25/13 at 07:24:59 Just read up on it. Ifyou can controil the problem by NOt letting the throttle slap shut & by raising the idl;e up a hair,, then thats a win, |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by NCSUindy09 on 09/27/13 at 07:47:12 So I followed a guide on proper tuning and hey guess what, it runs perfectly now. No backfires and it doesn't knock off. I took it for a few little test rides down the gravel driveway but since it's not street legal and I don't have a moto license so I haven't been on a road yet. There's just a few more things I need to look into to feel safe riding this bike, mainly tires and brakes. Here's my todo list: The rear tire doesn't have much tread left so I think I will replace that. I need to check the front and rear brakes (how?) and do work if needed. The oil/filter needs changing. The horn barely works, but that's easy to replace. I ordered a raptor660 petcock, so I'll put that on when it gets here. The forks still need work and the seals replaced. Some major polishing/dusting needs to be done. How can I test whether or not I need to do work on the brakes? So far I've been using mainly the front brake and it has worked fine (<25mph). Both brakes work. I'm not used to driving a motorcycle so I'm not really sure which brake to use all the time ;D Also, I really don't think I want to change the back tire myself. I don't think I have the proper tools or expertise to do it well. I'm thinking about just taking the back tire off the bike and taking it and the replacement tire to a tire shop to have them switched out. I could do any rear brake work while I'm at it. Again, I want to thank everyone on this forum for providing all the information needed to get this bike running again. It has been so much fun working on it. I can see myself as a lifetime motorcycle fixerupper/rider now. I feel good about how much work I've done to this bike coming from almost no mechanical background. Thanks, Ryan |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/27/13 at 16:34:31 The horn barely works, but that's easy to replace. Some horns have a screw that affects how the diaphragm wiggles.,., You can look at the front brakes & see how much is left on the pads. Its a smaller version of a cars disk brake. Make sure it "floats" on the pins,, pry the pad away from the disk & drive the Puck into the caliper body then see if iti can move on the pins, Whatrear brake work? Dang rare that those wear out,,biggest issue is they hold so well therear tire slides. I cut grooves in mine with a grinder. Probably took 1/3rd of the contact area out, much easier to use, |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by Digger on 11/25/13 at 18:56:12 6E7366706062776C716A030 wrote:
Good post, except for the old wive's tale that I've quoted above. A battery the size of Manhattan would be safe to use on our Savages, as long as it was a 12 v. battery. So, any 12 v. car battery would be safe to use.....as long as the car's engine was NOT running..... IHTH someone! |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by Kris01 on 11/25/13 at 20:04:12 I was curious about this as well. 12V is 12V! A car's alternator puts out WAAAY too many amps. It's the car's alternator, not the battery, that will fry the electrical system. |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by verslagen1 on 11/25/13 at 20:44:34 let's see... 12v is 12v... check a car alternator puts out too many amps... but 12v is 12v... right? or 14v while its running... same as a savage. maybe there's too much noise? too rough on the typical 1000v insulation? :-? true, batteries alone have internal resistance which will limit current. if anything would be sensitive to a "car running voltage/amps" I'd have to say it would be the regulator. |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by Dave on 11/26/13 at 04:09:32 I don't think that any 12v Battery will hurt anything....the starter will only pull as many amps as it needs regardless of battery size. If there is a system fault however.....a bigger battery will provide more energy to cook whatever is shorted/faulted. The "old wives tale" about not having the car running must be true on occasion.....just ask this fellow. http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?133183-94-ST1100-Black-NON-ABS |
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Title: Re: Starting up an old 1986 savage Post by SavageCat on 11/26/13 at 12:53:14 Regarding the fork seals. I would try this first - http://sealmate.net/ One side of mine was leaking pretty bad and this little fella did the trick. If it doesn't work then its only a few bones lost...if it does work then its a ton of time saved. Good work on all you have done. Keep it up. --Skip |
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