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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidewall
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Message started by terpfan1980 on 09/16/13 at 17:09:35

Title: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidewall
Post by terpfan1980 on 09/16/13 at 17:09:35

Argh, my dad and I got the saddlebag supports (which were the proper part number for my model year, 99950-70145) attached yesterday. At the time, it seemed probable as I looked at it, that I'd be in danger of having the support on the belt side of the bike scrape the tire. Well, as feared/predicted, that is what is happening. I've cut the sidewall on my tire enough to leave a build-up of rubber where the tire was being cut :(

I tried pulling the fender out as best I could just by tugging on it myself (grabbing the front part of the saddlebag support, bending/tugging gently outward and upward), but when I was riding home from work this afternoon, I could still hear the tire being scraped when I hit bumps that basically have my 240+ pounds bouncing up and down.

Suggestions on how to pull that fender out more so that the support has more clearance?

Also would love suggestions on how to raise the rear a bit more to get more clearance under the fender in general. I've read through the manual a bit and seen the notes on being able to adjust the shocks, but am unclear on whether trying to adjust for a stiffer ride would result in any improvement. (And to be honest, since the bike is an older one, 1998, I'm not sure that the stock shocks could even be adjusted now)

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by WD on 09/16/13 at 21:16:09

Get a set of stock take off rear shocks from a VS 800 Intruder. NOT an S50. Will raise the back a good 3 inches or so. And pull your bolt that are rubbing, replace them with dome/panhead cap screws, preferably ones keyed for allen wrenches. No more rubbing, and you could likely step up to a 150 tire with a touch of room to spare. Even set on midrange, the Intruder shocks on mine are a phenomenal imporovement. Surprisingly enough, putting my Savage's stock rear shocks on the 800 Intruder improved it as well... go figure.

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by Serowbot on 09/17/13 at 00:18:26

Them bolts can rub... especially if you have a 140/90 on the back....
Reverse the bolts to stick out instead of in... or use round heads...
Heck... you know the drill...
If it rubs... work it so it don't...
... but, never give in... ;)...

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by terpfan1980 on 09/17/13 at 04:55:39

1003470 wrote:

Just to be clear, it's not the bolt that is rubbing, it's the saddlebag support that is rubbing. I'm clear of the bolt, but the saddlebag support is just too close to the tire as things sit.

Raising the rear should help though, and that is well worth considering, though I'm not sure I'd need 3 inches. I'd settle for 1 at this point. (I should probably go for 3 though, since my heavy butt weighs down on things more than it should ;) :P )

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by WD on 09/17/13 at 05:21:24

That's odd, usually it is the bolt that rubs.

I;m usually around 235#, my full fender would bottom out on speed bumps with the stock rear shocks, has room to spare with Intruder shocks set on mid range.

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/17/13 at 07:22:43

Can you afford to lose any of the meat of the support? Can you grind it to clear the tire?
Bend it away?

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by terpfan1980 on 09/17/13 at 07:53:42

746B6D6A7770417141796B672C1E0 wrote:

Can you afford to lose any of the meat of the support? Can you grind it to clear the tire?
Bend it away?

I've been trying to bend it away, but I think in the end it's the fender that needs to bend.

I did think about grinding some of the support away, and that is a possibility. There just isn't much clearance on the belt side of my rear tire (not a ton on the other side either, but more than is on the belt side).

I think I'm gonna try grabbing the fender with some vice grips on either side of the support/bolt, and try prying things out some from there.

Meanwhile, the idea of replacing the shocks is appealing as well. I'm more frustrated and a bit p.o.'d at this point that I've been cutting down fairly new tires. (I just got the bike street worthy back in July, the tire has only about 1k miles on it, but it's been nicked up nastily on the sidewall now :( )

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by fsfishnchips on 09/17/13 at 11:19:38

what size of tire you currently have?

I upgraded mine to 140/90 and now its also rubbing against the belt-side support (not bolt)

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1378453259

Is there any support options that "does not" go inside the fender ??

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by Dave on 09/17/13 at 12:08:09

terfpan1980:

The support and help you get would be more accurate if you could post some pictures so we can tell what is going on. There are some issues that we can fix in the dark, with our eyes closed, while eating crackers and trying to whistle....but an unusual interference issue with a bolt on accessory is not one of those.

Just sayin........

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by terpfan1980 on 09/17/13 at 13:46:21

19222F3829253E38232B26394A0 wrote:

I'll try to get pics of this tonight. By the time I had seen the tire damage yesterday, I was more concerned with getting the bike home safely. By the time I was home it was too dark to do anything (other than a text description of the problem here).

I could have gotten a pic this morning, but I was still p.o.'d at having the problem and be forced to drive the beast (my minivan) into work today when I should have otherwise had good riding weather to enjoy :(

I did take WD's advice and have purchased a pair of shocks from the VS 800 Intruder. If that will buy me a few more inches of clearance above the tire, then I'll be better off in the long run. I should have those in hand by the weekend, so other than losing a few good days of riding weather and the cost of the shocks, it's not that bad, but I know I'll wind up having to replace that tire much sooner than I had hoped.

Good thought and suggestion/question above about the size of the tire. I'm not certain what the shop that did all of the work on the bike had installed for me. (It seems that fsfishnchips had exactly the issue that I had here)

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by pgambr on 09/17/13 at 14:39:14

I have the same problem. How much were the shocks and are they difficult to find? Thanks, best regards.

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by terpfan1980 on 09/17/13 at 14:43:19

5B4C4A4649592B0 wrote:

I have the same problem. How much were the shocks and are they difficult to find? Thanks, best regards.

Do an eBay search for the VS800 or Suzuki VS 800 shock and you should come up with multiple hits and multiple price ranges, depending on the age of the shocks and the amount of wear/cosmetic damage, etc.

I got a set that was priced around $70. I could have spent more easily enough, but the set that I was looking at seemed to be in reasonable shape and I didn't necessarily want to jump into paying for performance shocks (though I must admit to being interested in the recent thread here that talked about same and the more comfortable results that using them provided to the person that had bought and installed them)

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by terpfan1980 on 09/17/13 at 14:46:22

Seeing more than a couple of people with the same problem here, it has me thinking that this is definitely something that should be recorded for posterity sake. Again, I'll try to get pictures tonight and post them for all to be able to see. No promises on how good the pictures come out, but hopefully I'll get something very useful to point out the issues with.

In the end, I want to slap around the engineers at Suzuki for this one. I installed parts they supplied and would have expected that they'd have designed these pieces to have plenty of clearance. Having things as close as they do and not leaving some room there in case the bike hits a bump seems pretty stupid to me. :-/

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by pgambr on 09/17/13 at 15:16:58

Please do, I'm interested to see who it works out. I spent $150 on a new tire and $100 to have it put on. Same problem, and I don't feel comfortable riding on it knowing when I hit a bump it is going to rub. The guys at J&P Cycle told me it wasn't rubbing. I told them I can see the gauge in the tire. I wouldn't recommend doing business with them.

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by terpfan1980 on 09/17/13 at 16:12:56

Here's the pictures (assuming all of them will show up here)

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2823/9791603205_07ab0eb7e9.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2884/9791603525_e7650e1e60.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2844/9791603585_1e5f86e2a4.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7396/9791638336_106dbee64b.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2829/9791690303_6dc9636a5a.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3794/9791638686_fa47d2e0d2.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3691/9791690373_6e0e6de1dd.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7450/9791603355_0edc1a1ea4.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5334/9791604445_6fe9d19c44.jpg

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by terpfan1980 on 09/17/13 at 16:18:47

Even with the pictures, it's hard to see just how close the supports are to the tire, but...

... as can also be seen in the pictures, it would seem that the shop that sold me the tire and installed same apparently felt they had done me a favor and installed a tire that was taller and wider than the bike is supposed to have on it.

Given that, it would seem that the problem is that Suzuki expected more clearance from the original tires and didn't leave all that much room for wider/taller tires.

In my case, the wider (for those, like me before reading the information and learning along the way) comes from the "90" portion of the tire size. The tire width is 90 percent of the height, which in this case would be the 150 portion of the tire size.

The original tire would have been a 140/80, so it would have been shorter and skinnier (only 80 percent of the 140).

I can order the smaller tire and get it installed, or... well, replace the shocks with the ones that I've ordered via eBay and see how that holds up.

At this point, I'd rather go with the shocks, though I may change my tune when I get the shocks and find them a total p-i-t-a to install :P (hopefully not, but I don't want to count my chickens...)

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by terpfan1980 on 09/17/13 at 17:04:33

Oh, one other update here - I will certainly be ordering another tire soon too, to be installed when I put the bike in the shop for the winter (for storage, and repairs of my laundry list of repairs that I'll get done by the shop).

I'll order the tire online since that would save me a little on the cost for the part, and then pay to have it installed since that type of work is beyond my skillset (and probably that of my dad as well).

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by pgambr on 09/17/13 at 17:29:28

The tire on there is bigger than the stock. If I remember correctly it was 140 / 80 / 15. The one I put on was 140 / 90 / 15 and it was to big as well.

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by WD on 09/17/13 at 18:53:15

You are close... 150mm WIDE, 90% of that in sidewall height (when installed on the correct width rim). Our rims are already maxed out safely with a 140 width tire. That narrow of a rim really and truly was designed to run a 130 wide tire. Running a 150/90 on a wheel that is safety spec'd for a 130 gives you a mounted/installed width between 155 and 170mm depending on the tire brand and model.

Notch your fender rails. Install the bag supports INSIDE the rail. Button head bolts from the inside. Trim the bag support bolt pillars to fit if needed, or shim tight with washers. Or fit the rear with a 130/90 tire and be done with it, the bike will have a slightly better lean angle and a bit faster turning ability. Negligible, but it is there.

140/80-15 stock tire makes the speedometer read 10% off. 140/90 usually fits fine, even with bag supports. I'd lay even money the supports were redesigned under an rpc (running production change) on the same part number.

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by pgambr on 09/17/13 at 19:35:59

What's a rpc?

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by fsfishnchips on 09/19/13 at 00:30:58

this works for now !

Install the bag supports INSIDE the rail.

The rear signal looking kinda funny, will live with it until its time for a new tire ;)

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by WD on 09/19/13 at 05:35:57

2A3D3B3738285A0 wrote:

What's a rpc?

Running Production Change. Like when the carb jetting is changed, or stiffer spring rates are added, additional frame bracing is factory installed, etc. Bikes will be going down the line, and when the older spec parts are used up, the next bikes get the new spec parts. Design changes that do not require any sort of public notice. On one of my trucks, the 2 big rpcs were switching from floor shift 3 speed to column shift 3 speed, and floor mounted parking brake to dash mounted parking brake handle, mid year. Which to me was a step backwards. If my example had been a 3 on the tree, I'd have pressed the crusher button myself.

On Savages, rpcs are generally lighting or carburetor related (jetting). Or the factory finding a batch of obsolete parts and inserting them mid-run. Or your Made in Japan parts being phased out and Chinese/Taiwanese parts being phased in. Notice the increase in petcock failures since the LS650 became the S40... RPC.

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by terpfan1980 on 09/19/13 at 05:46:19

4752474852494F4249485152210 wrote:

this works for now !

Install the bag supports INSIDE the rail.

The rear signal looking kinda funny, will live with it until its time for a new tire ;)

For me this wouldn't work since it is the front part of the support that is rubbing the tire. The back is well clear of the tire, even when I bounce the bike over the bumpy roads.

I have the shocks on order, hopefully arriving today or tomorrow. I don't know that I'll have the time to install them this weekend, but I hope to be able to do so since I'd like to get the bike back on the road.

In the off-season I'll get the tire replaced with original size tire. Probably get the forward controls mounted at the same time (assuming I can catch a set of them when Routy has them in stock :P )

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by terpfan1980 on 09/20/13 at 18:40:36

Got the new shocks yesterday. Shiny. A small ding on one of them, but really not bad looking at all. Glad that the pictures that the seller (on eBay) had taken were actually of these shocks and not just a generic picture that he had used.

Installed these "new" for me (but used, pulled from a VS800) shocks tonight. Took a little effort and a bit of a balancing act to get the bike up on the jack, balanced somewhat on a cinderblock, etc., to the point that I could get the old shocks off and get the swingarm to drop a bit and open up the distance needed for the new shocks to be attached. Got past that, got the shocks completely attached and bolted on nicely.

The Corbin seat had arrived in the last few days as well. Since I was in wrench and socket usin' mode, I went for doing the install on the seat as well. Got finished just before sunset, with just enough daylight out to be able to see a little of the road.

Took the bike for a ride to check out how tight the shocks are and whether I'd be likely to scuff up the sidewall any more. Nope.

On the seat, wow, definitely a difference maker. I have to say that I love. love. love. LOVE the rear support, or should I say back support, that is provided. The pocket for my rump to sit in on the Corbin feels great compared to the stock seat. Woo hoo!

On the plus side, even though I'm working towards ordering the forward controls setup from Routy, I was pleasantly surprised at how comfortable the riding position is on the new setup. With the butt end of the bike raised from the replacement shocks, I had more leg space available to me than I had expected. I could certainly see where the forward controls would be more comfortable, but what I have now is definitely far from uncomfortable.

Almost a happy ending. If not for the sidewall damage that will have me replacing that tire sooner than I might otherwise have done, I'd be pretty happy. As is, it'll still be cool. I'll get a few more miles out of the tire, replace it before next riding season, and be ready to roll again for the spring time.

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by pgambr on 09/20/13 at 21:38:04

If it isn't to much trouble can you take a pic of how it turned out? Thanks.

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by WD on 09/20/13 at 21:56:37

I'd guess like Pine's bike... but in a faded orangish-pinkish-yellowish tone... ;)

1998s were good bikes, with really, and I mean really, low u.v. resistance bright orange paint. FYI, Kubota Type 2 (same thing as Alice Chalmers) orange is close enough, you can repaint the bike for about $12. Krylon Pumpkin Orange would run about the same but isn't as scratch resistant as tractor enamels.

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by pgambr on 09/20/13 at 22:15:36

I'd like to see how the shocks look. Thanks.

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by terpfan1980 on 09/21/13 at 05:34:29

7661676B6474060 wrote:

If it isn't to much trouble can you take a pic of how it turned out? Thanks.

Pics should be coming a little later today. :) It was too dark last night to get pictures. Hopefully the pictures earlier in the thread will show the "before" height fairly well.

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by terpfan1980 on 09/21/13 at 06:34:05

Here's pictures of how things turned out and how the bike now looks.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5472/9853937826_83b104b91e.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2810/9853938256_829de5b536.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7315/9853982663_4616acbbc0.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3789/9853938326_067f0fdc7e.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2891/9853894374_242bd29d29.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2823/9853982993_04b306ddcb.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7327/9853938946_47e8945cf0.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/9853983323_c29417fb0e.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7327/9853922655_eda0b36cdf.jpg

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by terpfan1980 on 09/21/13 at 06:36:03

Plenty of clearance under the fender now, and really, more comfortable for my somewhat longer legs to reach the ground from the new seat level. End result = happy rider.

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by terpfan1980 on 09/21/13 at 08:03:31

Just back from a short ride this a.m. I went over a couple of bumps along the way and heard the scraping sound a bit more, but definitely much less than previously. I'll try stiffening up the shocks a bit in the next couple of days, but I don't know that it'll make much difference. In the end, going to the smaller sized tire is definitely in the plans.

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by pgambr on 09/21/13 at 17:46:39

Thanks for info & pics! I hope the new shocks work out well for you.

Can anyone tell me if these will work or should I say work well?

Progressive Suspension 412 Series 12.5" Chrome Rear Shocks for Various Metric Motorcycles 1978-2009
http://www.jcmotors.com/images/Product/large/JCM-412-4207C.jpg

Title: Re: Attached Saddlebag supports, now cutting sidew
Post by pgambr on 09/22/13 at 17:51:30

If anyone has an experience could you chime in? I would like to create a more distance between the fender bolts and the tire. Maybe with a bit of luck have a smoother ride. Thanks & best regards, PG.