SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Time to  get a grip, folks.; /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1379367118 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 09/16/13 at 14:31:58

Title: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/16/13 at 14:31:58 http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/during-the-best-period-of-economic-growth-in-u-s-history-there-was-no-income-tax-and-no-federal-reserve

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by pgambr on 09/16/13 at 17:02:28 It ain't over yet, the fat lady hasn't sung.  That is in 2016.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/16/13 at 17:55:51 About a year ago Jerry said all the debt had been paid back since 2008 and the bailout was the greatest thing we've ever done. I knew about the extra 16 trillion then. Hell part of it went to McDonalds and Harley Davidson. Jerry just disappeared. From now on until something drastic happens we're always going to get screwed. From now on if a Corp. or Bank cant make if fire the management, no golden parachutes and have them pay back what money they've can they lost the Corporation and then send them packing and go from there.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/17/13 at 00:49:04 "But instead, America chose to go down the path of collectivization and central planning, and now we are heading toward the biggest economic disaster in the history of mankind." that's what it is". We become too complacent about wars and killing innocent people, that's what its going to take or something similar to turn this country around. Americans will do anything but stick together.I guess everyones heard about the shootings in the Navy Yard by now. Now it's   nothing but guns, guns, guns. The guy worked for the Navy and had entry passes. He just have easily drove a truck full of fertilizer in and done more damage. They said he locked his self up in his room and played shoot em up bang bang video games. Its evil that causes these occurences, not guns. Has anyone ever heard of a member of The NRA going off their rocker and commit mass killings, if so I would like to know. I'm not a member of the NRA and never will be as long as Ted Nugent is on the board. That's one crazy SOB.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/17/13 at 07:02:48 Again, the NRA is Not our friend, They helped pass the gun control act of 68. Ive watched an interview of a board member advocating 3 round max magazines, & HE said "A really good hunter only needs one, really" ZERO support for what the 2nd Says, Gun Owners of America.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by pgambr on 09/17/13 at 15:34:19 Many of you have much more experience than I regarding how things are trending.  Economically speaking, how do you foresee things in a 5, 10, 15 year timeframe? This should be interesting.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by raydawg on 09/17/13 at 17:39:53 In a nutshell..... http://www.komonews.com/news/business/Life-is-good-for-Americas-super-wealthy-as-fortunes-grow-223920981.html History will repeat itself, again. The chasm between the two factions (rich/poor) is getting deeper. They use to be a buffer, middle class, that supported the separation of the two opposing cliff walls. They will collide as more burden is laden upon what is left of the middle class. Both ends of the spectrum are (is) sucking the life blood out of our country. History has not favored aristocrats after the uprisings. Plenty of blame to go around, too much dependence (not pulling the wagon) too much greed. I love Nelson Mandela's observation "Wealth without compassion is toxic" Wealth in our capitalistic society has become an addiction..... Oh, and one more piece of the puzzle, perhaps.... Do you know 80% of ALL the world attorney/lawyers reside/practice in the USA. How many politicians have a law degree? If they are in charge of making the rules/laws.....who do you think they will favor? I do too....  ;D

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/17/13 at 20:32:23 I think we'll have another civil war, especially if we don't withdraw and quit spending so much money overseas. There's only so many people going to go hungry and homeless. They're after our retirement, they shipped our jobs overseas. nothing good is coming down the pipe for the little man. The Gov is listening to me right now. We have counties and states wanting to withdraw, that's the beginning, that's how it starts.. The Gubs know it, one billion bullets and most of the SS offices armed and they're trying they're darnest to disarm us. The problem with this civil war will be trying to get the different races to join together. I will attack if my family goes hungry. I wonder if all these government agencies will gun down Americans in the streets. It would be bad manning a 50 cal. in a Humvee and look down the sites and there stands your brother. I believe its all planned out, somebody in Washington besides the politicians are pulling levers. This new generation cant change a flat tire But they can unload an Uzi in a matter of seconds. White collar criminals pull no time and are not accountable for nothing, if caught they're fined and if they have to pull any time at all its months and they're back on the streets with an alias doing it again while none of the money they scammed is recovered. We are falling fast, coming apart at the seams and its the goverments fault, maybe our crime is letting it happen with no resistance. Our POTUS has committed more crimes and told more lies than most of us ever have.The middle east is an unnecessary evil, a place where we and our money don't belong.Speaking of money the Federal Reserve is going to make it where our money is worth nothing, some of the lever pulling not going on in Washington. What does it say about a country when they cant control their money supply. Our medical insurance is going to be a disaster because our congressmen act like 3 year olds, its their way or lets fuk it up. Our morals have virtually disappeared. Children are no longer being raised by loving, caring families. We've killed thousands of innocent Iraqians, 911 and Ben Ghazi are a lie. Our politicians lie and murder and some of us want to act like they're heroes.We need more George Snowdens, willing to risk his life for the truth, we need our morals back and we need to hold people accountable for what they have done. God Bless America

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Paraquat on 09/18/13 at 06:09:30 I'm glad you see it. The "zombie" targets represent unarmed American citizens. The "AR" ban, and subsequent gov't buy up... The ammo they are purchasing... They are preparing for a civil uprising. --Steve

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/18/13 at 06:40:16 They seem to be trying to kikk it off.,

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Pine on 09/18/13 at 07:02:23 6D7A7C707F6F1D0 wrote: Many of you have much more experience than I regarding how things are trending.  Economically speaking, how do you foresee things in a 5, 10, 15 year timeframe? This should be interesting. This could have been a good topic on its own.. good question. Actually, I have very limited experience.. but I will take a shot. ( note USA only) Five years: One of the current bubbles is Higher Education. Inflation in that is way ahead of all other rising costs. But this bubble, like the housing bubble is a bit more insidious. Kids are getting educations, but the debt they are accumulating is greater or extends that period that it takes to pay it back. On top of low paying jobs as their reward.. the fact is... there just are not enough jobs at any pay, to support them all.  When this bubble breaks, schools that have spent millions to support the flood of students will be hard pressed to fill the seats to pay back their loans. Government will be asked to step in and cover the losses. Meaning time students will default on loans, and or rates and payback will need to be extended or forgiven. 10 years: The US will be neck deep in over educated and super in debt workers, all competing for service jobs. Most will be part of the "working poor". The Obamacare plan has/will force employers to make everyone "part-time". Employment will increase... but most will not get enough hours/pay to actually make comfortable living. Savings, retirement plans, homes, even personally OWNED cars will be a thing of past. Rent your apt, lease the car, and hope you die in your sleep at a young age. The corps that control money (already) will continue to chain people into debt, which they will do just survive the next day. With the "middle class" extinct, government will re-define economic classes. The working poor will be the new middle class. 15 years; Finally as the "boomers" start dying off, the generations that had to support them will get a bit of break. Many of the boomers will be dealt with by the death squads, and the masses will cheer it. The result will be that more and more "relaxed" rules will be put in place so that younger and healthier groups can be added to the list of those for whom return on cost is not viable (allowed to die). Other groups will be added as well (mentally ill, disabled, veterans). The states will have become redundant government entities, and give up their identity ( ie the federal will take over failed state economies) starting with California, Mississippi, ect. People living there will be under only federal law. This will cause mass movement of people. As welfare populations move in and business and working poor move out. Most of what I have stated.. really already exists in some form. Its just not obvious/official. Most American will be excited by the downward spiral. That or they will sigh when some other group is chosen to be decimated and they will scamper to exist in other group. I don't think the American people will rise up.. there will not be a stand.. There will be a whimper, and the world will turn away to their own problems and wonder how it all came to be.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/18/13 at 15:22:16 Greed has replaced morality.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/18/13 at 15:34:46 & the trumpets blare.. Hell,, Morality has been made out to be some kinda ancient, really square idea.. Support abortion, queers & by all means bomb brown people

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/18/13 at 16:28:17 The Rise Of The AR15  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpwuzCmADpc   Not everyone is going down easy. Where was the outrage when the FBI killed all those kids at Waco? We protect our president, politicians, banks, jewelry stores, businesses, movie stars etc every day with guns but we send our children into a gun free school zone. John Kerry says we're signing the UN Gun Resolution whether we like it or not. There's a few Americans left who can show you what happens when we don't like it. John Kerry is the kind of politician that no longer cares about the wishes of his people. When we quit watching John Wayne and started watching Lady GaGa things started to go way downhill but there's pockets of true Americans scattered throughout the country that can cause a lot of trouble. A lot of Rebels will be up north this time. A lot of real Americans returning from the wars are pissed, I've talked to them and a lot of them will tell you we went after the wrong enemy. I bought a gun from a salesman at Walmart. He had been home 3 months and the government would not let him own a gun. Words couldn't even begin to describe the way he felt. We talked about 45 minutes. Webster even you should know before long they're gonna try to take your 10/22 and your 401K away Its all over the news and net and you wanna side with the government we now have. Our founding fathers made only one mistake as far as I'm concerned., how to protect ourselves from greed. The War of Independence was started because the English became too greedy, mainly the English government. Greed is the deadliest of the 7 deadly sins, it will cause you to commit the other six. Greed is similar to alchoholism, its addictive and usually only 3 out of 100 recover. Maybe its a disease like alchoholism. Businessmen have enough money to buy a 3rd world country and they still want more. The major yacht company that builds most of the 10 million and up yachts are over 5 years behind in fulfilling orders. Before you say it Web I'm not jealous, I just want them to quit taking money out of my pocket, getting a semi free ride from the goverment and buying off the politicians. That is why I dislike a lot of rich people and I think its dam good reasons. Now with unlimited campaign contributions anything, idea or reasoning can be bought. Voting has all become useless. The rich are going to buy what they want. I first thought the Tea Party was going to be a great group of patriots but they've turned out to be self centered A$$holes who like to chastise handicapped, unemployed, different races, you get it. After I found out who was financing them it became no surprise. The KOCK Bros. Two of the crookedest, greediest envireomental unfriendly SOB's to walk the earth. The future looks dark, we need some laws changed, not the CONSTITUTION or BILL OF RIGHTS. I'm talking about unfair laws like the Patriot Law and the unlimited donation law.  and anyone that wants to change the Constitution or Bill Of Rights can go straight to Hell, don't wanna miss your Fri night Poker game with Hitler. Now that Congress can get paid to vote whats the point in a 2 party system. I think all its good for is racism. Everyone knows 90% of the minorities are gonna vote Democratic. What if there was just one party and everyone voted for what they thought was right instead of following sometime stupid party lines. I want computer voting because I think more people would vote even thogh it seems like its futile It would weaken the unlimited donations. It would make it harder for the rich to get everything they want and that's good..Everyone agrees Congress was once a good idea that went corrupt. Lets do something about it. Quit rewarding then for a job poorly done. We could do that with computer voting. Make Lobbyist illegal. Involve the people more on the decisions made in Washington, Congress has proven time and time again they cant be trusted. We should vote on whether we want to stay in the UN. I think we know how that one would turn out yet we are made to go against our wishes because the underhanded politicians wants whats best for them. Outlaw war manufacturing organizations like Haliburton and Blackwater and their mercenaires. The gas tax should go to roads and rebuilding the infrastructure. Who knows where its going now but everyone knows its not the roads. Let the people vote on the wars, Its their families involved with giving up bodily harm and body bags. We don't have enough money to pay Social Security but there's always enough money for wars. Washington thinks they are Gods but we're not proving anything overseas. We go over there, kill thousands including women and children, put another leader in who hates us and 10 years or less we're back again. Is that how we're suppose to set an example for the rest of the world? Washington thinks it is. Our president put his hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution and the Bill of rights but he's doing everything to destroy the 1rst, 2nd and 4th amendments. Iilegal  search and seizure is becoming almost as common as traffic tickets. If it wasn't illegal we would be in Syria right now. We need to make it harder to get involved in wars. Gangs are running the streets of major cities but we had rather go fight somewhere else than clean up our own mess. There's a way to enter this country legally and its worked well for years, now we want to give it away when we cant support ourselves. I love my country and a lot of you are going to say I'm unpatriotic but is laying on the couch everynight watching Survivor or whatever the stupidest show they can come up with patriotic. I may not be doing much but I want people to know how I feel. I hope I've planted a few seeds tonight. Stay healthy and God Bless America

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by raydawg on 09/19/13 at 16:21:58 2C08050F080609151308050413610 wrote: The Rise Of The AR15  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpwuzCmADpc   Not everyone is going down easy. Where was the outrage when the FBI killed all those kids at Waco? We protect our president, politicians, banks, jewelry stores, businesses, movie stars etc every day with guns but we send our children into a gun free school zone. John Kerry says we're signing the UN Gun Resolution whether we like it or not. There's a few Americans left who can show you what happens when we don't like it. John Kerry is the kind of politician that no longer cares about the wishes of his people. When we quit watching John Wayne and started watching Lady GaGa things started to go way downhill but there's pockets of true Americans scattered throughout the country that can cause a lot of trouble. A lot of Rebels will be up north this time. A lot of real Americans returning from the wars are pissed, I've talked to them and a lot of them will tell you we went after the wrong enemy. I bought a gun from a salesman at Walmart. He had been home 3 months and the government would not let him own a gun. Words couldn't even begin to describe the way he felt. We talked about 45 minutes. Webster even you should know before long they're gonna try to take your 10/22 and your 401K away Its all over the news and net and you wanna side with the government we now have. Our founding fathers made only one mistake as far as I'm concerned., how to protect ourselves from greed. The War of Independence was started because the English became too greedy, mainly the English government. Greed is the deadliest of the 7 deadly sins, it will cause you to commit the other six. Greed is similar to alchoholism, its addictive and usually only 3 out of 100 recover. Maybe its a disease like alchoholism. Businessmen have enough money to buy a 3rd world country and they still want more. The major yacht company that builds most of the 10 million and up yachts are over 5 years behind in fulfilling orders. Before you say it Web I'm not jealous, I just want them to quit taking money out of my pocket, getting a semi free ride from the goverment and buying off the politicians. That is why I dislike a lot of rich people and I think its dam good reasons. Now with unlimited campaign contributions anything, idea or reasoning can be bought. Voting has all become useless. The rich are going to buy what they want. I first thought the Tea Party was going to be a great group of patriots but they've turned out to be self centered A$$holes who like to chastise handicapped, unemployed, different races, you get it. After I found out who was financing them it became no surprise. The KOCK Bros. Two of the crookedest, greediest envireomental unfriendly SOB's to walk the earth. The future looks dark, we need some laws changed, not the CONSTITUTION or BILL OF RIGHTS. I'm talking about unfair laws like the Patriot Law and the unlimited donation law.  and anyone that wants to change the Constitution or Bill Of Rights can go straight to Hell, don't wanna miss your Fri night Poker game with Hitler. Now that Congress can get paid to vote whats the point in a 2 party system. I think all its good for is racism. Everyone knows 90% of the minorities are gonna vote Democratic. What if there was just one party and everyone voted for what they thought was right instead of following sometime stupid party lines. I want computer voting because I think more people would vote even thogh it seems like its futile It would weaken the unlimited donations. It would make it harder for the rich to get everything they want and that's good..Everyone agrees Congress was once a good idea that went corrupt. Lets do something about it. Quit rewarding then for a job poorly done. We could do that with computer voting. Make Lobbyist illegal. Involve the people more on the decisions made in Washington, Congress has proven time and time again they cant be trusted. We should vote on whether we want to stay in the UN. I think we know how that one would turn out yet we are made to go against our wishes because the underhanded politicians wants whats best for them. Outlaw war manufacturing organizations like Haliburton and Blackwater and their mercenaires. The gas tax should go to roads and rebuilding the infrastructure. Who knows where its going now but everyone knows its not the roads. Let the people vote on the wars, Its their families involved with giving up bodily harm and body bags. We don't have enough money to pay Social Security but there's always enough money for wars. Washington thinks they are Gods but we're not proving anything overseas. We go over there, kill thousands including women and children, put another leader in who hates us and 10 years or less we're back again. Is that how we're suppose to set an example for the rest of the world? Washington thinks it is. Our president put his hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution and the Bill of rights but he's doing everything to destroy the 1rst, 2nd and 4th amendments. Iilegal  search and seizure is becoming almost as common as traffic tickets. If it wasn't illegal we would be in Syria right now. We need to make it harder to get involved in wars. Gangs are running the streets of major cities but we had rather go fight somewhere else than clean up our own mess. There's a way to enter this country legally and its worked well for years, now we want to give it away when we cant support ourselves. I love my country and a lot of you are going to say I'm unpatriotic but is laying on the couch everynight watching Survivor or whatever the stupidest show they can come up with patriotic. I may not be doing much but I want people to know how I feel. I hope I've planted a few seeds tonight. Stay healthy and God Bless America OK....now one more time again please.....ya know, just so I can try and understand you better. Now what did they do with the microwaves  :-?

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/19/13 at 20:05:10 What part don't you understand?

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by pgambr on 09/19/13 at 20:23:07 I was anticipating more response's such as another bubble in this sector, the national debt will hit this point, so on.  Well I suppose even Rome fell.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/19/13 at 20:30:02 Rome fell because they tried to rule the world, morals went to zero and the leaders were a bunch of crooks. Is that what you wanted to hear, anything sound familiar? The good part is the spear chunking, rockthrowing peasants beat the mighty Romans.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by pgambr on 09/19/13 at 20:35:59 Honestly, I wasn't looking for a response.  I was anticipating a more colorful point of view from JOG though.  And it does sound familiar.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/19/13 at 21:03:10 4E595F535C4C3E0 wrote: Many of you have much more experience than I regarding how things are trending.  Economically speaking, how do you foresee things in a 5, 10, 15 year timeframe? This should be interesting. Either Bryzinski or Rockefeller, I cant remember which, was whining that the masses are more politically awake then ever. The plans? Who knows the exact goals? The Direction we areheaded is obvious, How quickly we allow them to herd us that way? That can change. This is the first time Ive seen the people bring the goobs to heel. I am encouraged,, Its possible we can swing things. I dont saee it being a High %age option, but its at least in the realm of possible now, 6months ago I had it at  much lower odds. Put afew thousand people marching into Bilderberg groups & invading the Grove, marching into the halls of Congress & pointing to the criminals, demanding they resign,,We mite just survive,, see bankers on the run, as in Iceland,, OHHyea,, we Could swing this back to the land of the Free.. BUT, we have QE Infinity, the Fed is buying its own paper.. ( You take a car to the auction, you bid on it, buy it & go home & tell the wife you made money on it & she believes you. "She" is the American people in this story) Predicting social/economic conditions & p[inning a general time frame on them? Notreally possible, too many variables,, But, Where are we headed? If things dont change,, Into more unemployment,.& Under-employment. Those whose benefits have run out? NO LONGER COUNTED as Unemployed! You run out of food & suddenly, youre no longer counted as "Hungry"? OUr Dollar is bleeding out, BUT, Other currencies are on life support, soo,, people STILL buy dollars./. How much longer will that last? How does the Fed pumping 85 BILLYUN Dawlerz a MUNTH into the economy affect the long term outlook on the value & attractiveness of the dollar to people elsewhere? Its not good.. I keep hearing we are in a recovery. Ive seen economic downturns, Ive NEVERseen the Fed pump Money into the economy when it was In a Recovery.,..The mere Mention of Tapering off sends Wall Street into a dive,,Gee Wally,, I think theyre givin us the Bizniss! The more people there are who see the world the way I do, the more weare able to bring DC to a halt. It isnt old mainstream dems or bubs who have screamed NO to DC. Its people who realize neither party represents the people. If the number of Libertarians/Constitutionalists/Tea Party types continues to grow, then in 10 or 15years I see Americans working & growing,troops at home, I do wonder, tho, if TPTB will allow themselves to be removed from power w/o killing a bunch of us,,Im really not seeing it.. The Georgia Guidestones are not a joke.,

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/19/13 at 22:00:31 "If the number of Libertarians/Constitutionalists/Tea Party types continues to grow, then in 10 or 15years I see Americans working & growing,troops at home," Jog I hope you are right and this country straightens itself out without a war. Several things worry me about the Tea Party, the Kock Bros are #1. The world would be a better place without them. How in the hell could someone vote Michelle Bachman in office? I though Palin was bad but Michilles IQ is double digit lower than Palins.When I found out the Kock Bros were financing the Tea Party my hopes went away. You're dead on about the Dem's and Pub's, neither represent our best interest unless you live in Washington or work on Wall St. Obqama said there would be no more bailouts and that's one of the first things he done. Maybe that's where that mansion in Hawaii came from. I like the name of the Liberalist Constitution Party. That's what I call myself. The liberals hate war so that's pretty much covers how I feel about war and anyone who tries to change or do away with the Constitution is an enemy.I would like to change the way we vote but I'm not trying to take away that right. I want to make it more effiecient  and give the people more rights when it comes to voting. I think we should have more of a say so when it comes to wars and have the right to fire politicians with the press of a button on a computer, no waiting in line in bad weather or having to take off work to vote. That might straighten their crooked asses real quick. I have no say so in my retirement, they should have none in  theirs. Any politician caught evading their taxes or having overseas taxacounts to avoid paying taxes we should be able to fire them on the spot by pressing a button on your computer or one at the library. They're treating us like cattle slaughtering us every chance they get, killing thousands of innocent people including killing and maiming our own while they're threatening to cut back or do away with my retirement because they don't have the money. The dumb crooked SOB's in Wasington claim we're setting an example for the rest of the world while they fill their filthy pockets exploting the poor and starting wars to make the war machine rich.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by WebsterMark on 09/20/13 at 08:17:24 We’ve had a great run…. The world’s a thousand times better off because of the arrival of the United States of America. I shudder to think where the world would be without us. However, success breeds contempt from the outside and complacency from within. Despite what Jog and Midnight preach all the time, there is no secret organization or society orchestrating the nation’s (or the world’s) events. People with power-hungry personalities pursue individual goals as they see fit. Many of those go into politics. Many go into business. Sometimes they work together to achieve a goal and then split apart. These strong personalities can never work together for very long. There are never two bullies on a block; sooner or later they clash. You’ve heard that saying “there’s not enough room for two of us in this town.”  Same thing happens in politics and business. If you want one reason why Jog and Midnight’s ideology is flawed, that’s the simplest reason right there. There might be a Mr. Big in the movies, but not in the real world. Enough about that…. What’s happening to us is the result of our success. We are fat and happy. We don’t have to struggle to stay alive. We subsidize college degrees in Eastern Art,  Women’s Studies or basketweaving. Doesn’t matter there’s no real market for that. There’s always been government funded institutions to hire those graduates in the past. Not anymore.   Liberalism is destroying us. We are reaching the top of the pyramid. We foolishly thought some people are simply not capable of taking care of themselves so we taxed producers and used that money to enslave generations to government handouts. We are now stuck with almost half of the population paying no tax who feed at the government bird feeder……  Whole generations will never work more than a couple years in their entire lives. They’ll never even try to improve their lot in life. Why should they? They’ve become accustomed to the US poverty level. We need something. We need a savior from somewhere.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/13 at 08:26:09 When I say TYeaParty, for GODSSake, Understand, Im NOTtalking about LIARS who Call THEMSELVES Tea Party & VOTE in ways Ron Paul would Never, Just putting a cops unifoirm on a thief doesnt make him acop.,Get it?

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/20/13 at 10:07:01 I understand Jog. I wrote in Ron Paul when I voted. Need to get rid of the Kock Bros too. They're despicable. Web its not Liberals, its lack of morals.  Single parent households are taking over which means no time for the children. They stay on the streets and learn the street life. It doesn't make a dam how a person votes, its how he or she lives. No matter what politicians are put into office or what party the same ol sh!t is gonna happen. Obama wasn't going to bail Wall St out again and that's one of the first things he did because he was told to.He would be in the Middle East now if it wasn't illegal. He's going after guns because he's told to even though he keeps failing. The biggest mass shooting occurred in the 40's and they wanna act like its something new. The news media didn't cry when the FBI gunned down all the women and children at Waco. The bought and paid for news media makes it seem like mass shootings have just started.My millionaire friend told me last Fri night I would be scared to death if I knew what was going on. I told him I already had a pretty good idea. He's dumped all his money and turned it into property I have a cousin that works back and forth between the CIA and the DEA. He tells me the same thing, I don't want to know whats going to happen. My wife retired from law enforcement partly because she got tired of all the crowd control sh!t they were feeding her. I'm no longer receiving SS payments that I started paying into when I was 12 years old.  I had to go out on disability at 55. I 've made over 2million in my lifetime. How much did I pay in, yet now its called a benefit. When you withdraw cash from your savings account does the bank tell you you're receiving a benefit? Over one billion bullets, armored assault vehicles automaticweapons and they're arming the SS offices. Fema, Council On Foreign Affairs, all the new government law enforcement agencies, the UN wants to disarm us and you cant put that puzzle together Webster. Its so simple its not even a puzzle.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/20/13 at 10:33:26 Pg if you don't want to read my long post above, my millionaire friend I talk about was an executive VP of Dean, Witter, Reynolds. 2 words- Buy Land. He's smart when it comes to money, a genius. Of course when sometning needs fixing he calls me LOL. He's bought enough rent property to live comfortably the rest of his life. He and his 2 sons have traveled all over the world. He did it right . He made a sh!tload of money, retired and started having children in his 40's now he gets to spend time and travel with them in the summer when schools out. They've been all over Europe, China, Japan. Money has no value, as Jog says its nothing but a promise. Unless you buy land on the coast next to the water or a volcano it last forever. I made good money but I've had 4 wives. I played in a semi famous Rock n Roll Band. Wine, Women and song and your money will disappear but I have some great memories, they're worth a lot LOL.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Paraquat on 09/20/13 at 11:10:22 What band? Why didn't you learn after the first one? --Steve

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by WebsterMark on 09/20/13 at 11:36:06 Web its not Liberals, its lack of morals. Midnight; liberalism = lack of morals. There is no puzzle to put together Midnight. It's not a secret. Everything that's happening can be explained by both my theory and yours & Jogs conspiracy theory. Your way requires a near a massive coordination involving thousands of very selfish individual doing what their told to do and not stepping outside of their roles. My way requires random events by selfish individuals. Think of it as the opposite of the Invisible Hand theory in economics. If you want to get really in-depth; my way follows the 2nd law of thermodynamics with regards to entropy.    You guys theory somewhat violates entropy. Pgambr: I was anticipating a more colorful point of view There you go Pgambr; I bet you didn't expect thermodynamics to pop up in this discussion did you?!

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/20/13 at 12:54:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism There is absolutely no mention of lack of morals. The liberals hate war and seeing innocent people slaughtered, is that immoral? The right and left wingers are both wrong in their own way, blaming everything on one group of people is pregidous and wrong.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/20/13 at 13:16:52 "What Band" Back in the 70's I had a band called Earthwood. We opened for Jimmy Buffet, The Allman Bros.Back then youcould drink when you were 18 and most colleges up and down the east coat would have large 2 day music festivals on the football fields and we played for a lot of them. In the80's I had a band and we mainly played Military Bases. That's where the money was at. Ed King and Artemus Pyle are the only two remaining original members of Lynard Skynard that survived the plane crash.. Ed has a lot of heart trouble but the plan is next Feb if he's up to it we're touring Florida and I'll be playing bass for them. They asked me last year but lupus caused my hands to be eat up with arthritis and I couldn't do it. The Dr's have put me on Chemo and its loosening my fingers up and I can play once again. Artemus Pyle, the drummer is in great shape and acts like he's in his 30's. Sunday I'm going to a birthday party of the other guitarist that plays with them. This kid is only 21 years old, a few years ago I taught him a lot about the guitar. Artemus is going to try to drive down, he lives just outside of Nashville.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/20/13 at 13:31:35 http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo2/mwshelton/Tise_Birthday_012_zps01ba2257.jpg         Artemus and I taking a break after playing at a mutual friends birthday party. He still plays just like he use to.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Paraquat on 09/20/13 at 17:41:02 Midnight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3YmqX0EZQ4 ? --Steve

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by pgambr on 09/20/13 at 20:00:01 Interesting reading, just trying to find my way.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/20/13 at 20:01:17 Wrong Earthwood. I'm glad LOL did you see they were cheered off the stage? We did shows with Hootie at some of the colleges before they hit the big time. Our music sounded a lot like theirs. WE sang a lot of 3 part harmony and always ended our shows with Suite Judy Blue Eyes. I'm from Winston Salem. We traveled up and down the East Coast. I couldn't go too far, I worked 37 years for RJ Reynolds. Back in the 70's I made more money making music than making cigarettes. The 80's sucked. DJ's and Disco's. That's when we switched to army bases and made some money there. By then the we had lost one member and changed the name of the band to Steel Blue and went all electric. Earthwood played a lot of acoustic music, CSN, America, Dan Fogelberg, Jim Croce etc. Theres several military bases in NC and SC so that worked out good. I hated playing the officers clubs because they were a bunch of old farts and all they wanted to hear were oldies, some of which are OK and Beach Music which I hate!!. They always fed us good, the chef would prepare us a meal before the show and open bar which got me into trouble sometimes LOL. Its not the life people think it is ,loading equipment,,setting up, tearing down, reloading equipment and pulling in the driveway at sunrise. It was hard work but I was doing what I loved. Now that the chemo has loosened my fingers up at least enough to play bass (I normally play guitar) I hope Artemus shows up tomorrow and I wanna see what he's got planned. I'd like to make one more round now that I'm not working and don't have to be at home.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Paraquat on 09/21/13 at 07:07:24 Sounds like a lot of cool adventures. --Steve

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/21/13 at 11:16:28 I hope the old man don't bore you to death with his old stories. One of the wildest things I ever did was run sound and lights for an all male review. Before your mind jumps to the wrong conclusion remember I was the only male in the club with a bunch of drunk horny women. A lot of people don't realize it but most strippers are gay. After they danced they didn't want anything to do with the women. It was a dirty job but someone had to do it. I'd have women fighting over who I was going home with. They didn't pay me a fortune but the benefits were great. I had a lesbian stripper keyboard and sax player in one of my bands. She lived with me for a year between marriages. I let her cook and clean and do laundry, housework, etc for rent. Everyone thought I was one hot love machine living with a stripper. I never told them she was a lesbian. I didn't have but one bed but she drew a line down the middle of the bed and told me Mikey you had better not cross the line or I'll rip it off. I still stand when I pee. I flew hang gliders for 13 years, paddled White water kayaks on the roughest rivers on the east coast and skydived along with my music. RJReynolds paid me a lot of money and I blew every penny of it. Maybe that was the way it was supposed to be. If I had a truckload of money right now it wouldn't do me anygood because the Lupus is eating me alive. We talk too much about money when we should be concentrating on living. I've had as much, probably more fun than the guy with th 10 million $ yacht. Made a lot of great friends, pissed a lot of people off LOL. In the 70's my first wifes uncle had a Cessna 150 Aerobat. It was just like the one Tom Cruise flew in Top Gun. He was in his 60's and his sight was going so he got a friend of his named Charlie(don't remember his last name) to teach me how to fly so I could fly him around every now and then Charlie was a WWll ace with 6 confirmed kills. WE did everything that little plane would do. My wifes uncle kept it at a small grass strip inside a shed. I didn't know who the FAA was back then. Never got my license, I just fueled her up and flew her. I flew more by myself than I did with Unc. Came in several times with corn stalks in my wheel pants. I thought I would buy a book on beginning flight, I wanted to learn all I could. Dammit I forget the name of the book but it was written by a guy named Jerry Eichenberger. A lot of you are probably familiar with him. I bet I'm the only one on this forum with his book. Jerry and I disagree sometimes but  I'll never argue with him over airplanes and flight principles. I found out a long long time ago just how intelligent the man is and he deserves all my respect. What I read in that book could have saved my life. The Lupus has kept me from riding the last 2 years. I have so much stuff I get behind trying to keep it all up and the grandsons get my quality time. I sold my Savage, it was for my wife and when our first grandson came along she quit riding. Mick steered me towards a 250 Ninja, probably the most fun bike I ever owned. It steers like its on rails and you can twist the throttle without worrying about dying. She'll do 100 and that's too fast now with my eyesight . She's set now, not been cranked for 2 years. I know the carbs are stopped plum up. Sri was gonna come over and help me tear the carbs apart and clean them. The carbs are tiny and with my eyesight I could have used a good pair of eyes. Sri told me he was moving and I haven't heard aword from him since. That's probably been 6 or 7 weeks ago. He's not the guy with the smartass comments on this forum he's a different person in person.. I've PMed him twice and I've lost his ph #. (I just hope hes OK)He knows a lot about motorcycles and builds a lot of parts from scratch. I have a few regrets, making cigarettes is not exactly contributing a lot to society but it provided the funds to keep me and my "families" going in above average style. My boat has set also. Its only 3 years old and Its set 2 years. I'm gonna try to get the money to get the boat and the bike going again. Grandsons are getting old enough to enjoy my boat, Its a Lund, its my 2nd boat and the one I always wanted for a fishing boat. I would like to make the Dragon Trip again.Four years ago I had a ball and putting a face with a name makes a big difference.You guys ride safe, stay healthy and whether I agree with you or not really in the long run who gives a sh!t LOL

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by babyhog on 09/23/13 at 05:24:32 Midnight, I enjoy your old stories.  I think you should start a thread of your own, and add a story any time you feel like it!    :)

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by mpescatori on 09/23/13 at 08:14:13 44606D67606E617D7B606D6C7B090 wrote: Rome fell because they tried to rule the world, morals went to zero and the leaders were a bunch of crooks. Including the first Bishops and Popes, or...? From "The Decline and fall of the Roman Empire" by Gibbon: " the Empire as a whole had initiated major cultural and political transformations since the Crisis of the Third Century, with the shift towards a more openly autocratic and ritualized form of government, the adoption of Christianity as the state religion, and a general rejection of the traditions and values of Classical Antiquity." Quote: Is that what you wanted to hear, anything sound familiar? The good part is the spear chunking, rockthrowing peasants beat the mighty Romans. If I have ever read an insult from a snotty, cave-dwelling, nearsighted ignoramus, this must be it. Rome did not try to rule the world, they ruled what world they had concquered; - the Germans were left to their own means, east of the Rhine; - the Persians were acknowledged to be more than a handful to deal with and proved interesting commercial partners; - the Indians (from India) we were quite familiar with, and traded with to buy silk; - we knew of the Chinese because our trading routes were protected. THIS was the Roman Empire, conquered by hand-to.-hand combat and administered with Codes of Law. We had no laser-guided boblets released at 30.000 ft. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Roman_Empire_Trajan_117AD.png/800px-Roman_Empire_Trajan_117AD.png What ruined the Roman Empire were excessive stretch of lines of communication, and "native recruitment", in other words, Roman Legions were under Roman Officers but were manned by "barbarians". The Goths, Visgoths, Vandals in the South... Franks and Normans and Frisii in the North of the Empire... they were anything but "barbaric". "Barbarus" meant, as it did to ther Greeks, "someone who babbles when speaking in my language". Now, my friend, I do not babble in your language, but you certainly do babble when aping mine, so who is the barbarian, Midnight ?  >:( Incidentally, look up the "Byzantine Empire in Ravenna", they had finer roads than London did under Queen Elizabeth (who couldn't even afford to pave the roads of London in cobbles - hence the "rise, SIR Francis Drake"... they were muddy messes!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exarchate_of_Ravenna Rome still rules today, at 2800 years old. How ? Leaf through any Encyclopaedia (a printed one) and see how many terms and definitions come from Latin, and how many come from Saxon. Starting from "motorcycle" and ending with, quite possibly, your own 1st name. When Washington gets to be that old, let me know. Even the Principality of Monaco is older than you - by 500 years... Get yourself some culture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_the_Western_Roman_Empire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_the_Roman_Empire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_empire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_rome Officially, the Roman Empire terminated with the fall of the Holy Roman Empire, in 1918 when Austria lost WW1. That's what major historians say. Your call.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by mpescatori on 09/23/13 at 08:17:36 283F39353A2A580 wrote: Many of you have much more experience than I regarding how things are trending.  Economically speaking, how do you foresee things in a 5, 10, 15 year timeframe? This should be interesting. Well, THIS guy had it all figured out since 1958, and guess what, he didn't even need to guess ! http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xadvz0_robert-welch1958-predicting-plans-t_news

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by WebsterMark on 09/23/13 at 10:24:21 Is it just me or does anyone else think mpes should look up the definition of the word pretentious....

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/23/13 at 10:45:05 BH I'm glad I didn't bore you to death. I remind myself of the old men who use to set around the country store talking about the good ol days. The Skynard tour is looking good, got some errands to run, more later.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by mpescatori on 09/23/13 at 12:33:58 1E2C2B3A3D2C3B04283B22490 wrote: Is it just me or does anyone else think mpes should look up the definition of the word pretentious.... Pretentious ? Me ? Etymology From French prétentieux, from prétention, from Latin praetensus (“false or hypocritical profession”), past participle of praetend[ch333]. Adjective pretentious (comparative more pretentious, superlative most pretentious) 1.Marked by an unwarranted claim to importance or distinction. 2.Ostentatious; intended to impress others. (liberally copied from the Wiktionary) If one were to say "My family name is Smith and my Grandad is the richest man in the County", yes, that would be pretentious. If one were to claim lineage from the Allertons of Massachussetts, and Others were to say "so?" they would be humbled to learn the Allertons of Massachussetts actually discend from the original Pilgrim Fathers. In my case, I am merely defending my lineage and my Heritage. I do not believe I actually called anyone names, although I do plead guilty to using a bit of sarcasm. I believe I was entitled to. Whereas everybody your side of the Atlantic firmly believes Europe was saved by the Allies in WW2, it is just as true that more civilians were killed by Allied carpet bombings in 1944-45 than in the five years 1939-1944 by the Germans. There is the tendency to judge a People by its latest feats, rather than by its overall history. What has Italy given to the world? Read history, look up "Humanitarian Law" and the name "Cesare Beccaria". He was a jurist and wrote an essay fundamental for modern law. Under his influence, the GrandDuchy of Tuscany was the forst modern state to abolish the Death sentence in 1769, and to pass a law on the mentally ill in 1774, which recognized mental illness as an illness to be treated, not as a criminal condition worthy of jail (or worse). Italy boasts the most ancient universities in the modern world (not including those in the Islamic Near-East) Of the 56 Universities founded before 1500 (just to provide a date) 21 (twentyone !) were in Italy. Among these: - the first School of Medicine (Salerno, 1088), - the first secular University, the University of Naples, where you didn't have to study Theology "just because", in 1224, - and my own, the University of Turin 1404. Italy's Monte dei Paschi di Siena is Europe's oldest surviving bank, dates back to 1472. An Italian Templar Banker invented "Bankers' checques". My Heritage includes scientists such as Leonardo, Galileo, Marconi, Fermi and Volta. And Meucci. Who was he ? A poor yet genial thinker who invented a means to convey "voice over a wire". He was too poor to patent it, so he emigrated and found a job working for a Mr. Alexander Graham Bell. The rest is known history. An obscure Dr. Tagliacozzi was the first physician to theorize skin grafts in the 16th Century, but the Church thought this to be blasphemous. It all comes to one principle: Heritage and cultural identity. So, pretentious or not, I am PROUD my people and my ancestors have shaped the world as we know it today. edited to correct some grammar here and there

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/23/13 at 21:52:18 There are people here who I make a point to read what they say. I look at threads to see who posted last.,,When I see a post by Pesci, I always read it. The man is educated & isnt given to any agenda Ive seen. He understands liberty in ways few here seem to grasp.So, yea, Webby, its pretty much just you. There are about 5 people here I make it a point to follow what they say.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by mpescatori on 09/24/13 at 02:20:44 Thank you JOG. I admit it is difficult to set oneself free of stereotypes, and I do admit I feel offended by what I read, sometimes. Most of the time I just shrug and pass to the next thread, sometimes I do not. Although I still feel "American" in many many ways, because of my childhood (and even this is difficult to acknowledge by some Forum members) I have learned to refrain from discussions which address purely domestic issues. However, when "world trends" are discussed, I feel I am entitled as anyone else. Going back to the "stereotype" with which I opened my post, I have found Northern Europe still entertains many stereotypes on Southern Europe, most of which are over 100 years old. Unfortunately, the same applies to what many people in the US believe. Once I was browsing through the computer section at Walmarts in Portsmouth, Va., and a lady asked : "really? you have internet in Italy?" to which I replied : "No, I have to truck it up to Switzerland and ask somebody to lend me their PC"  >:( How many of you knew the very first programmable electronic calculator was designed in Italy by Olivetti ? :o De facto, the very first desktop PC ? in 1964 ? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Olivetti_Programma_101.jpg/250px-Olivetti_Programma_101.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivetti_Programma_101 10 of these were bought by NASA for the Apollo Project  8-) Anybody who was aircrew on a USAF B-52 knew them well  8-) Unfortunately, Olivetti's founder and CEO insisted "we produce typewriters, not electronic gimmicks" and sold the blueprints and lot to IBM. In fact, if you look at the Programma_101 and at IBM's 5100 10 years later, you can clearly see the timeline http://www.tomshw.it/files/2011/08/immagini/33217/ibm5100.jpg It was copied by Hewlett-Packard and sold as the HP-1000 Other stereotypes ? Hollywood blockbuster productions such as "Troy" (with a blond and clean-shaven Achilles") or "300" (with a clean shaven and pierced King Xerxes - when only slaves were pierced and/or clean shaven) or "Gladiator", where "evil" Emperor Commodus was actually a very reasonable man, and certainly did NOT murder his father! or "Braveheart", where hero William Wallace is depicted as a fiery yet hillbilly rebel, when he was actually a learned aristocrat... ...or the nickname "Braveheart" itself, which did not belong to Wallace but to his counterpart Robert the Bruce or "10.000BC", where effemminated Egyptian sorcerer-priests had trained mammooths...  ::) Mammooths?  :-? In Egypt? Hellooo? Gotta go now. I have to discipline a few snotty-nosed, garlic eating Frenchmen...  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by WebsterMark on 09/24/13 at 05:29:49 Thanks for proving my point with your condescending reply. I'm thrilled you're pound of Italy's history. (My motorcycle has Brembo brakes!) Course, you might want to keep you eyes turned to Italy's past since it's immediate future looks pretty bleak. To be fair, so does my own country. You've just had Obama-like leadership for a little longer. If we don't change, we'll end up in the crapper like you. Anyway, your snotty reply to Midnight had all the tone of Sir John Gielgud in Arthur. And no it's not just me jog......  Hey, throw mpes some of your truther style conspiracies his way and let's see if you always read his replies. Maybe I could get him to reprint the pentagon building performance report after 9/11.....that way you would finally read the document you say ISO full of lies....

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/24/13 at 17:36:05 Thanks Web. First time I've ever been called a babbling, snotty, cave-dwelling, nearsighted, ignoramus, barbarian.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by pgambr on 09/24/13 at 18:02:51 Pesc, a number of years ago I had the good fortune to see Rome and a good bit Italy.  An absolutely fantastic country for many reasons.  Although, I don't know what it is like to make a living there; a wonderful place none the less.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by WebsterMark on 09/24/13 at 19:59:19 Thanks Web. First time I've ever been called a babbling, snotty, cave-dwelling, nearsighted, ignoramus, barbarian. No worries Midnight. PS: it only hurts the first time!

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Trippah on 09/24/13 at 20:28:13 I enjoy the conversations and rants...life is kinda boring without.  I voted for Goldwater in 64, because I believe the less government the better, and most of the government should be kept close (like your enemies). ;D I think Rome's time had come, as MSP noted long supply lines and basically foreign legions with Roman officers....old tactics that didn't evolve quickly.  As all empires find out, it just expensive to keep people enslaved.  The US experiment is trying another way, enslavement through debt..following the capitalist system which uses one of our human strongest drives, greed.   Perhaps we will  do a French style Marie Antoinette on the Kardashians et al and as noted, the college debt bubble is about to explode and a lot of schools may go under.  I do not see a bright future for the US, I'm hoping it isn't as bleak as I feel it might be. :'( After the poop hits the platters, we at least have a lot of land for agriculture so after the death of the cities some small percent should emerge in good shape.  This Continent is  blessed with abundance.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by mpescatori on 09/25/13 at 02:32:37 744641505746516E425148230 wrote: Thanks Web. First time I've ever been called a babbling, snotty, cave-dwelling, nearsighted, ignoramus, barbarian. No worries Midnight. PS: it only hurts the first time! Don't forget to smile !  ;D ... Now, seriously, folks... Obama is not bad, from a European perspective, he's just trying his best to balance social justice towards the lower classes (which is not socialism, I insist) with keeping the fat cats happy and well fed. And for those of you who don't see it this way... do you maintain your bike ? Yes ? Do you feed your dog ? Yes ? If schools, Police and Fire dept. are free (i.e. paid by public moneys) how is it that in this day and age the health system is essentially private ? Because that's the European perception. I can understand the village doctor having to ride his buggy one full day to a remote Nebraska ranch in 1876, and anothe full day back to town, and demand to be paid for his time, but these days? If the system expects me to work and maintain myself, and to pay my taxes, if the system provides protection against crime and fire, howcome it doesn't provide protection against illness ? Europe thinks along these lines, from Iceland to Greece and malta, it's the same fundamental principle north to south, east to west. Anyway, I disgress. You want to talk Italian politics ? Fine by me. What Berlusconi tried in 1992 was US-style liberalism in a nation which still boasted a full 32-33% of the polls to be affiliated to the IT Commubnist party, which - if you look at figures closely, was a mere puff behind the Christian Democrats. Whereas you in the US crank it up between elephants and donkeys, we had "the old Partisan Liberators!" (sic!) wind up the masses calling for the Proletariat Revolution... ...and if Bob Dylan, John Lennon and Joan Baez were popular in the '60s in the US, you have no idea what they obtained when mixed with Communist propaganda in 1970s Italy! The Church even dubbed Lennon and the Beatles as satanists...   :-? :o Singers like Guccini - Vecchioni - DeGregori praised the resistance and chanted praise of student marches and protests against "the Establishment". We came to the point where even waving your own Flag was considered right-wing and nostalgic - hence, fascist. Only the military were left to Flag-bearing cerimonies - which only added to the "flag = fascist" theorem. By 1980, living in Italy was living in some kind of left-wing Chile  :-X you could say whatever you wanted, provided it was leftwing... :P Thnigs gradually changed for the better, yet not good enough. Berlusconi has proven quite a Statesman, doing business with Russia in a way that left all other European Nations speechless. We pay russian gas for heating less that the French, Germans or Belgians - hence, they hate us. We did business with nations that until the previous governments were still attached to the old line of conduct - again, a businessman turned politician was successful where professional politicians and diplomats had failed. The result? An ever increasing number of "secret investigations" by the Judiciary that was unheard of anywhere else in the world. Oh, they got him in the end... for minding his own business in his own home, for example, with zero witnesses and ridiculous charges against him, just like during the Inquisition. They got him for being the CEO of a business that did business, without citing any other VPresident, Executive Director or even a business lawyer (the kind who actually writes down the contracts)... as if he had done everything himself. Seriously, now: can you imagine the US Republican Party going for President Carter with the allegationas he had, maybe, possibly, used a banned pesticide in his peanut plantation ?  :-? ::)

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 09/25/13 at 06:11:31 The sarcasm with which all politicians are viewed now will be the ruination of many good systems.  We're so concerned with how a person talks, what jokes he may tell, and all kinds of other nonsensical trivia, instead of how he runs a business and the government that we are well on our way to many governments being populated by idiots. Why didn't Romney have a chance?  A man who proved time and time again that he could pull failure out of the fire and make something successful, like businesses and even the Olympic games, yet he wasn't respected by the common U.S. voter.  In fact, he was vilified for being successful. Instead, we'd rather have a POTUS who, while being a "good guy", never even ran a lemonade stand, who never had any sort of job in business, and hasn't a clue how to run one. If we go back to people like Roosevelt (FDR), whose personal life was a disaster, even rumored to have had affairs with a cousin; JFK, who sneaked women into the White House right under his wife's nose; even our recent Bill Clinton, who is certainly no moral saint; Eisenhower, who was rumored to have had an affair with his female driver during WWII, and our first Pres., Washington, who was the wealthiest man to ever be president, who died from pneumonia after falling off of his horse while drunk and lying in a ditch all night, we see men who knew how to run something, and the people voted for them on that basis; not the inconsequential that rules voters' minds today. But with what we have voting today, we'll never go back to electing successful people.  Don't blame the politicians - blame the voters for electing fools rather than successful people in most instances.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by WebsterMark on 09/25/13 at 06:26:10 Amen Jerry; amen....... I am NOT a conspiracy theorist like JOG, but I believe the media and entertainment culture's one party takeover is giving too much influence to, those whom Rush correctly calls 'low information voters'. On those rare occasions when I watch the network news, it's laughable what passes as being so important it makes the cut to be included in 22 minutes of primetime broadcast. You're right; how Romney didn't win going away is a mystery to me. How anybody can mention Hilary Clinton and President in the same breath is staggering. Why is Nancy Pelosi even allowed to live in this country? I'm in Philadelphia right now; there are several precincts here that went 100% for Obama despite the fact unemployment was higher than it was 4 years previous. How is it that the entire population of a couple of voting districts are so stupid that they voted for the guy a second time? Was it 100% race based? I don't think that's all of it. I think it's this handout mentality combined with an utter lack of ability / desire to discern the truth.   When you sit down and think about all this, it's depressing. We are going the way of Italy, Greece and Europe in general, minus Germany. (at least for a little while)

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by oldNslow on 09/25/13 at 06:43:31 Jerry E wrote: Quote: Don't blame the politicians - blame the voters for electing fools rather than successful people in most instances. Exactly. Politicians come and go (sometimes even to jail, where a lot of them belong) but the folks that keep electing/reelecting them aren't going anywhere. 50-60 years of a "progressive" public education system gets a good deal of the blame IMO. American history is for all intents not even taught in public schools any more ( world history either for that matter). It's been replaced by "cultural studies" whatever the h*ll that is. You can't expect folks that are completly ignorant of the history and traditions of their own country to be able to participate intelligently in it's government.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by WebsterMark on 09/25/13 at 06:45:08 We are going the way of Italy, no offense Mpes. but Italy is irrelevant in today's world right now as are many other former proud European nations that have given in to the Euro and all that implies (regardless if it's their chosen currency or not) If the US becomes irrelevant; the sh!t will hit the fan big time. The world does not want China calling the shots.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/25/13 at 09:12:49 Youre failing to grasp the importance of the idea. You can say Italy is unimportant in the grand scheme of things, okay, well & good, but the point being made is WE are going down the road Italy went down, socially & economically.,You can agree or not, but instead of dismissing his point because you see Italy as a non issue in the world is to fail to consider his point,.Im not agreeing or disagreeing with his point, Im simply trying to get you to think about what he was saying instead of blowing it off because you see it as an attempt to compare the usa to italy in their  importance on the world stage,

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 09/25/13 at 10:55:14 JOG - People have to vote sensibly, and not throw votes away by voting for some 3rd party or similar candidate who doesn't have a snowball's chance of winning. Those who voted for Carter in 1976 just because they wanted a "decent man", like my in-laws did then, got what they deserved - Jerry Ford was not Nixon. Those who voted for Ross Perot in 1992 elected Bill Clinton.  On the other side of the spectrum, those who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 elected GWB. Forget mis-guided "statements" by voting for these  non-winners - in most instances, you are helping elect the person with whom you disagree the most.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/25/13 at 12:01:32 "Why is Nancy Pelosi even allowed to live in this country" Her mission is to disarm us and turn us into Communist. Who keeps voting these people in? We're either terribly stupid or whoever runs against them must be a cesspool. Jerry, Romney did a 180 there for months about every other day. That turned a lot of people off including me. Didn't know from one day to the next what he was gonna say or wanted. The 42% video lost him millions of votes and it pissed me off. If he could have spoke everytime like he did at the debates things might have been different, but with Obama with the minority votes in his back pocket he had a long head start. I wrote in Ron Paul. you're gonna say I wasted my vote. I just couldn't bring myself to vote for either one and I voted for who I thought would be the best man for the job. Its a shame his son isn't more like him. The more Rand opens his mouth the less appealing he becomes. Rubio, Christie, Ryan, especially Ryan don't do anything for me.. Maybe Rand will learn and take some lessons from his father in the next 2 years. All we need the Feds for is to protect our freedom.  We need to quit worrying about the rest of the world. There's kids out there dying for an education and its almost impossible to raise the funds like Pine's daughter.We're building schools in Africa which there's nothing wrong with that IF WE COULD AFFORD IT.. Somehow we got this idea that its better to take care of the rest of the world than our own. One thing that's happened under OBama's watch is we now have more oil than ever. The oil companies make more money selling it to Japan and other countries. Somebody with some balls needs to stop that. The oil companies are subsidized and pay little if any taxes and would still make billions not exporting. Our kids go to the Middle East and have to fight and die for a large percentage of our oil. A little country called Bavaria has made wind and solar power to the tune of 80% of their power. They don't have oil lobbyist or as crooked a government as we have. We should send some engineers over there and learn their methods but the oil companies aren't gonna let that happen. The corporations and the rich have too much control in Washington. That's one reason we have lifetime politicians, they're bought, paid for, and most of them have sheletons in the closet. There's a lot of truth in power leads to corruption. I know you don't like him but Bill Clinton balanced the budget,put 4 billion extra in Social Security and Bush spent it in a few months. He srewed up big time with Nafta though. Send a good man to Washington and in a few months or a year he's a crook looking after himself. If Hillary runs the Pub's better get off their a$$ and get someone that can compete with her. She's like Obama, she's starting off with the minority vote in her back pocket. Another big head start. If Elizabeth Warren would run she's got my vote. She loves the American people and wants whats best for them. The Pubs cant find anyone decent to run.  My opinion is demolish the Federal Reserve, we need once again to have the dollar backed by precious metal! Pull out of the UN! Give more power to the States and less to the Feds. Put a limit on Lobbying. Any politician avoiding taxes or breaking the law or not paying taxes on off shore accounts should be treated like a normal citizen and be held accountable. They are supposed to be working for us but the're screwing us. Spend more on schools and education-real education not what they call education, maybe set up an apprenticeship program like they have in Europe. Make voting easier, everyone probably has read my ideas on computer voting, doing away with the two party system, The Pubs are disappearing quickly anyway. Vote for Who's the best candidate. No one party is right all the time, vote for whats right! Voting along party lines and half the time they haven't even read what they're voting for is just plain wrong! I know it was designed to keep the system in check but now whoever the lobbyist can get to and the amount of money passed under the table determines the vote. Spend a lot less on foreign countries and deal only with the ones we trade with. - The Food Stamp program can be done away with and people and prisoners can be put to work on the infrastructure. This also goes for deadbeat fathers, make them work for those kids. Putting deadbeat fathers in jail does no good for anyone and guess who foots the bill. Give the people more rights, Congress was a good idea but the politicians no longer represent the people who voted for them. They've got a system and they know American people forget quickly so they're voted in again. The people need more power now more than ever. If your congressman refuses to represent the voters we need to be able to get on our computers and fire him immediately. That's the way its supposed to be according to our forefathers, Washington is supposed to be scared of us. The American people are tired of handing out money to other countries and war. We've got to find a way to stop it. Voting no longer works!

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/25/13 at 21:10:11 407275646372655A76657C170 wrote: We are going the way of Italy, no offense Mpes. but Italy is irrelevant in today's world right now as are many other former proud European nations that have given in to the Euro and all that implies (regardless if it's their chosen currency or not) If the US becomes irrelevant; the sh!t will hit the fan big time. The world does not want China calling the shots. Go ahead and offend him Web. If he ever comes back over here I'm going to throw a rock at him   LMAO   We're too chicken sh!t to stand together and fight. We're too dam dumb to stick together and do something about the situation. There's not enough difference in the parties to worry about so why argue with each other while Washington has become a haven for dishonest crooked liars who care only about themselves. We're doing exactly what they want us to do while they're getting richer and laughing their a$$es off. Get use to it getting worse because they're keeping us busy arguing and fighting amongst ourselves. You and I disagree a lot but does it really matter in the long run, hell no. If you and Star both get what you want nothing much is gonna change. The real terrorist are in Washington and until we start booting them out and scaring them nothing that really matters is gonna change. Our jobs are gone and probably will never come back because of Nafta and trading with the Chinese. We had rather spend our money overseas and make a few US contractors rich than build decent roads, schools, bridges, affordable higher education. The major corporations and lobbyist run our lives and take our money and jobs. Once you get in with the politicians and big boys the laws of the land don't affect you. Web you and Jerry can say Romney would have made it better but he wouldn't. I watched all three debates and Romneys and Obamas foreign policies were carbon copies. That's the only time they didn't argue. As much as I wanted to I couldn't keep my bros and their families up when they were out of work and trying to find work. I would slip them some money when I could but the bottom line is I couldn't afford it. This country will never learn that, never. We should grow some nads and tell Washington we're through spending money overseas. We should add some amendments to the Constitution, not be trying to take them away like Obama. The amendments should give the people more power. The power to prevent wars, the power to impeach Clinton for signing Nafta instead of impeaching him for a BJ. (That's how stupid we are) The power to impeach Congress if they try to screw us which they're doing a dam good job of. I believe in national healthcare but Obama's plan should be sh!tcanned. Medicare isn't all that bad, I like my Blue Cross. Copy something that works instead of inventing a trainwreck. Instead of acting like Congress (which is what they want) we need to concentrate on what we agree on and do something about it. Someone on the forum said Congress was a good idea but it is corrupt and no longer works. Amen. Our political system no longer works, its put us on a sinking ship and instead of fighting amongst ourselves we all need to get together on the high side of the ship and right it.I thnk its way past time to quit worrying about the rest of the world and get our own house back in order. Web I don't know exactly what you're into right now but if things don't change you'll be traveling overseas to sale your products. We've got enough bombs,missles,aircraft and ships to turn the whole world into a piece of glass many times over and Congress wants more. Could it be the defense contractors are controlling a large part of Washington. Instead of building war machines we don't need send them to Germany and Bavaria and educate them on wind and solar power. As Jog says voting is pointless and he's 90% right. What little bit changes is usually for the worst. Our foreign policy and defense weapons is the biggest piece of the pie and the most useless. If we cant look after our own we don't deserve to be #1. If we withdraw from the UN and mind our own business the rest of the world will leave us alone. If you took a vote right now I'd be willing to bet 70% of the country would want nothing to do with the UN. Our useless wars accomplish nothing except putting us deeper in debt. We put a new leader in and 10 years later we're right back, trying to get more oil instead of concentrating on making our energy supplies self sufficient all the while killing and maiming our young men. Foreign policy,wars, weapons we don't need, all of that is taking our money and putting us deeper in debt. The only way we will ever become a decent country again is to stick together and quit fighting over the petty stuff, we can straighten that up later. We got to scare Washington by giving more power to the people and quit supporting and blowing up the rest of the world or you low lifes can stand in the unemployment line like we've had to. Its the 21rst century and I still believe in computer voting, Every 6 monts everyone in their own state should vote whether their representative's are doing their job representind the people who voted for them and doing whats best for the country. If they receive less than a 51% rating tell them to go stand in the unemployment line. Where would we be right now if we told Clinton he was fired if he signed Nafta? Walmart might be selling some American goods. Our major car companies might have 2 or 3 times as many employees.What would happen if we could convince one Congressman to demand we quit selling our oil overseas. All the rest of them would know they would be unemployed if they voted against it. Americans including myself forget a lot in four years and then you have them that's gonna vote for their party no matter what but I would hope they have enough sense not to vote themselves out of a job. We've got to take away some of Washington's power and restore the power to the people.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by mpescatori on 09/26/13 at 06:58:49 06222F25222C233F39222F2E394B0 wrote: [quote author=407275646372655A76657C170 link=1379367118/45#52 date=1380116708] We are going the way of Italy, no offense Mpes. but Italy is irrelevant in today's world right now as are many other former proud European nations that have given in to the Euro and all that implies (regardless if it's their chosen currency or not) If the US becomes irrelevant; the sh!t will hit the fan big time. The world does not want China calling the shots. Go ahead and offend him Web. If he ever comes back over here I'm going to throw a rock at him   LMAO   We're too chicken sh!t to stand together and fight. BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH Our major car companies might have 2 or 3 times as many employees. BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH We've got to take away some of Washington's power and restore the power to the people.[/quote] OK, Midnight Rider, point taken. I promise I will PM you the moment I book my flights next time I fly over to visit. I hope to god your fists are the size of hams because my feet are darn well practiced at kicking ass, holes or no holes. Furthermore, my doc put me on a protein-rich, low carb diet, so I'm always hungry... FEED ME, WM ! Now, let's get down to business... The USA WAS the prime World Power way back in the days when Goverment did as Government should, and Industry did what industry should: one's job was to govern the other's was to produce and sell. Unfortunately, these days (too many) governments are more after consensus than "do the right thing", and politicians are more interested in being re-elected than being remembered for "doing the right thing". So Industry goes and fills the gap, and what do you get ? BP and EXXON who invest in... oil in Nigeria, but are so powerful one year's profits of these companies are folds more than the nation's GDP! Which means that BP/Exxon/whomever are the companies who rule the nations, rather than the respective Governments. Allow this to go on for a few decades, with generations of fat cat managers getting fatter, and young men with high hopes in a good job becoming unemployed grandfathers on the dole, and their grandchildren turned adult will resort to the ultimate reaction - extremism. You don't have to believe me, I don't expect you to: but give yourselves the benefit of doubt, and read the kind of websites which are my daily read, and see for yourselves: - The CIA arming the Syrian extremists http://securityobserver.org/the-kurdish-option-facing-the-crisis-in-syria/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-kurdish-option-facing-the-crisis-in-syria&utm_source=ISO&utm_campaign=e080c2ad11-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_9968a11987-e080c2ad11-21369041 "The CIA is officially sending light arms only to the western aligned Free Syrian Army (FSA; the main secular rebel army)[iii], but this claim is hard to prove. Where the Saudi arms go is also questionable at best[iv]. Money and arms are sent by foreign supporters, especially from Arabia, to Islamist organisations, like the Al Nusra Front or the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL; an Al-Qaeda branch)" What is the US government doing to STABILIZE THE SITUATION and save Pres. Assad ? You want yet another Afghanistan/Iraq? Again ? Europe sure as hell doesn't! - AlQaeda in Mali http://securityobserver.org/the-benefits-and-costs-of-taking-on-al-qaeda-in-mali/ which is quite a long way from Afghanistan, ain't it ? So, go ahead, Midnight Rider, go ahead and claim you're the only one custodian of the Almighty Truth. Who knows, we may have another Almighty yet ! http://content.internetvideoarchive.com/content/photos/647/027177_18.jpg But watch your sixes, you just might be wrong... http://www.terranauta.it/foto/1204717028.jpg You can't ride your bike on the bottom of the ocean...

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by mpescatori on 09/26/13 at 07:26:03 As for the American automobile industry, we are simply two separate universes: as long as Detroit produced 2-ton, single digit mpg road barges and gas was 25c/gal., all was well, the VW Beetle was cute and the Porsche 911 was "that german thang I cannot outrun on twisty roads". But come the 1980's...  :-X For documentation, I simply chose the "entry level" versions of the most famous US sports car, the Mustang, and compared it to the European equivalents to the eyes of the foreign buyer: - 1982 Ford Mustang: 5.0 L V8 (302 cu.in) with a whopping 157 HP  :-? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/%2785-%2786_Ford_Mustang_5.0_Liftback_%28Orange_Julep_%2707%29.jpg/260px-%2785-%2786_Ford_Mustang_5.0_Liftback_%28Orange_Julep_%2707%29.jpg - 1982 BMW 635: 3500cc 6L with only 215 HP http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/1985_BMW_M635CSi.JPG/280px-1985_BMW_M635CSi.JPG - 1982 maserati BiTurbo_ 2000 V6 Turbo i.e. with 180 HP http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Maserati_222E_2.jpg/280px-Maserati_222E_2.jpg - Mercedes-Benz 280CE: 2800cc 6L with 175 HP http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Silver_C123_front.jpg/220px-Silver_C123_front.jpg - Porsche 944: 2.5cc 4L, 150 HP (yup! from a 4-pot!) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/1986_944_Turbo_.jpg/280px-1986_944_Turbo_.jpg In other words, same size, often less weight, half the engine for just as many (if not more) HP, and better mpg. I purposefully left out the Ferrari Mondial, a 4-seater coupé, 3.o L V8 with 240 HP, THAT would have been cheating...  ;) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Classic_Show_Brno_2011_%28084%29.jpg/280px-Classic_Show_Brno_2011_%28084%29.jpg :D So please, Midnight, spare yourself the thing about the Automobile Industry: it took Detroit quite some time to realize they had to go back to the drawing board. Thay have, and now Detroit produces some spectacular competitors to the European counterparts: similar engine size, similar body size, even the prices are comparable. But Detroit was going the same way the UK car industry in the 1980s, the wrong way. It got saved alright, by corageous entepreneurs who were willing to take on the challenge.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 09/26/13 at 09:08:07 I agree with Col. Pescatori.  I have owned only 2 American cars in my lifetime, a Dodge Caravan mini van when my daughter was a little girl, and a Jeep Grand Cherokee in the early 1990s that had two complete, foot to the floor brake failures. Even in high school, when the other kids dreamed of a '57 Chevy, my dream was a Series 1 Jag XKE. The Japanese forced Detroit to improve quality, while the Europeans forced Detroit to build smaller, efficient cars that handle decently now. Back in the 1960s, we referred to American cars as Detroit Iron, Boulevard Bathtubs, and Land Yachts, among other, less complimentary terms. Left to their own devices, without the impetus from foreign manufacturers, we'd all still be seeing 2 ton Ford Galaxy 500s, Chevy El Caminos, and Cadillac Sedan DeVilles coming out of Detroit.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by mpescatori on 09/26/13 at 11:02:27 Aw, Jerry, you really hit me in my soft spot there...  :) Back in 1968, as we arrived, my dad rented a Maverick for the first few weeks until we settled dow. When my Mom first saw it she yelled at him "why did you get such a BIG car? Why didn't you get anything smaller and more practical?" To which his reply "Why, Darling, this was the smallest they had!" :-? And it was... to you... but to the untrained European (any European) the Maverick was big... Imagine when he bought his first car, a Mercury 2 door coupé ! It was champagne gold, and with my Mom it was love at first sight !  :D http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1997/4741/29992370001_large.jpg Something very similar to this, childhood memories and no pics at all...  :-[ A few years and a few cars later (they cost so little, used, my Dad would buy a "new" one every Fall) we did "graduate" to a Galaxy 500. http://www.imcdb.org/i177385.jpg Metallic Bronze with a vynil roof... his first V8 and 4-wheel drum brakes! Again, internet pic; this one looks so much like the chestnut brown "plainclothes" unmarked Police cars, doesn't it? Well, this pic is from the set of "Streets of S.Francisco" with a very young Michael Douglas!  :D When we returned to Italy, my dad relied on his father's puny little Fiat 850 (4-cyl motorcycle engine... almost!) while my two uncles both had "proper" cars: Alfa Romeo Giulia TI, DOHC 1300cc for 103 HP (SAE net) off dual Webers, 4-wheel disc brakes, DeDion rear suspension, 5-speed gearbox...  8-) http://photos.motormutt.com/trade0413/5209e8704f7358351b00007b/877665/1972-Alfa-Romeo-giulia-super-1-3-1-1024px.jpg EXACTLY like this one http://www.dadedepo.altervista.org/Giulia_file/giuliaint.jpg Lancia Fulvia 2C, DOHC V4 1300cc for 94 HP (SAE net) off a single Weber, 4-wheel disc brakes, FWD and live rear axle and 5-speed gearbox with dogleg 1st (same as Porsches) http://www.amicistoricalancia.it/sites/default/files/fulvia_berlina.jpg UGLY AS A BRICK, BUT TAKE A LOOK AT THE DRIVER'S SEAT ! http://pic1.autoscout24.net/images-big/118/914/0236914118002.jpg?d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e My Dad kept the little Fiat until it rotted away (Navy Officer, seaside city, you know...) until he got himself anothe "as close as I can to American"... ... Chrysler-Talbot (Dodge to you) Horizon http://img.youtube.com/vi/ah1EBACxBWY/0.jpg with a French 1442cc engine good for 92 HP, cruise control and automatic transmission. Never failed him once  8-)

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by mpescatori on 09/26/13 at 11:18:28 PS... my Dad'd (Grandad's) FIAT 850... Would you believe it sat 5 ? Rear engined 850cc good for (a measly) 32 HP... Go ahead and have a good laugh !  :D http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Fiat_850_Special_1968.jpg [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7YzCI4uuQ0[/media]  :D

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 09/26/13 at 11:33:24 Nothing like the current Fiat 500 being sold here now.  I'm starting to see more of them on the streets - I hope the car is successful here.  I haven't driven one yet. People who never drove 1960s era European small cars don't know what they missed.  I remember driving a VW bus with 40 horsepower on days with stiff headwinds when you could go 50 mph in 3rd gear and 45 in 4th. Then there was the feeling of driving that Jag XK-150 LeMans Coupe that I owned for a short while during college.  It was a street version of a race car.  It moved. We made our daughter, who was 16 years old in 1996, learn to drive on a VW Jetta with a manual transmission.  She cussed it then, but is thankful now - especially when she went for her driver's license test and at the end, asked the examiner, who was an old lady from West Virginia, if she passed.  The lady said she passed the moment that she saw that my daughter showed up for the test in a manual.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/26/13 at 12:22:12 OK, Midnight Rider, point taken. I promise I will PM you the moment I book my flights next time I fly over to visit. I hope to god your fists are the size of hams because my feet are darn well practiced at kicking ass, holes or no holes. Furthermore, my doc put me on a protein-rich, low carb diet, so I'm always hungry...   Pesi I expect no less from a man whose country use to put men in rings and have them kill each other for sport. Refresh my memory, it sux. What did I say about the automobile industry, I don't remember and you brought it up.. I think the Italians are the greatest designers in the world when it comes to cars and machines. But I think the Germans have the highest quality. The Asians are the best copiers and are masters at doing it cheaper with less waste, but I don't like their work ethics. I have a Suzuki Forenza. I bought it for an errand and work car. The reason I bought it was because it was $12000 new off the lot. When I was working my job was to keep a 2 million Italian cigararette machine running made by an Italian company called GD. I know you've heard of them. Their factory is right across the street from Ducati. The machine was very well designed for the most part, we did some mods to it and it run even better. It would spit out 425 packs of cigarettes a minute! It was a very sensitive machine and had to be set just right to produce a quality product. But like a Ferarri once you set her up like she was designed to run she was amazing. The German machines I worked on had better metal and were easier to keep running. There was one Italian machine I worked on everyone else hated but I loved it, a GDX500. It had a few flaws like the exit belts and the columbo filipetti was weak. I came up with a mod for the exit belts and after that she would set there and run for hours. I remember one night the Columbo Fillipetti broke. GD's headquarters in Richmond were out. The next night I had to go up on the roof and wait for a helicopter to come in with a new Fillepetti. GD flew it over here by plane overnight and delivered it by helicopter. Pretty good customer service. I've owned one Ducati, a 1986 650. Cagiva bought them out and they wrote Cagiva on the tanks for 2 years until they were sold again. If I ever won the lottery I would try to find a mint 96-99 Ducati 996, I think it was a 996. To me its the most beautiful production model ever built. I'd like to have one in my living room.I loved the handmade fiberglass bodies, I hate it when they went to plastic bodies like the Asians.I learned how to set the valves on a Ducati, no easy task. Future Ducati mechanics are sent to the Ducati Factory in Bolonga 2 weeks just to learn how to set the valves. Shops over here charge at least $600 just to set the valves. You can get a good deal on a Duc with 6000 miles on it because no one wants to pay to have the valves set. I couldn't afford it so it took me over a week but I finally learned and I set several more up for people. A Duc has a cam to open the valves and a cam to close them. Its a trial and error experience settng the valves. You have to have the right size shim and its almost impossible to measure the size shims you need. You guess, the more you do it the better you get. No valve springs. Years ago that was great technology because valve springs would float. Metalurgy has come a long ways and now any Jap sportbike bike will outrev a Duc so Ducati is concentrating now on torque and handling, that's why they're still winning races. On a short twisty track they have an advantage to the high revving bikes that takes a few seconds to get them wound up. Well that's about all the experience I've had with the Italians, to be honest it wasn't half bad.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by mpescatori on 09/26/13 at 13:23:16 Hi Midnight, I'm glad to see the tones have mellowed. "Pesi I expect no less from a man whose country use to put men in rings and have them kill each other for sport. " Er... actualy, that wasn't us, Guv, that was the Greeks. http://www.infonotizie.com/foto/4766.jpg [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHgrqOIXoN8&feature=youtu.be[/media] This is a world famous masterpiece, a bronze sculpture. It wasn't hammered into shape, it was forged. We Romans had our laughs poking fun at the French...  ;) http://www.gamestop.it/productImages/138670/5scrmax1.jpg http://www.bestmovie.it/wp-content/gallery/asterix/6850_80_img_gallery_648.jpg As for GD cigarette machines, I don't smoke, so I had to look them up. Reading your description of those machines brought back long-forgotten memoreis of the one motorbike I loved the moment I bought it, and hated the moment I realized I had been sold a bike that had been raced to Death in those "after midnight" clandestine races. Still, today she would meet a much more favorable fate  :) [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwNGz-xucbA[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JUQli2Pcbo[/media] (notice the racing tach...  ;))

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by WebsterMark on 09/26/13 at 16:27:54 Left to their own devices, without the impetus from foreign manufacturers, we'd all still be seeing 2 ton Ford Galaxy 500s, Chevy El Caminos, and Cadillac Sedan DeVilles coming out of Detroit. And today's European manufacturers couldn't duplicate the cutting edge cars and motorcycles today that they did in the past. The tree huggers have a firmer grip on that side of the Pond than they do here on this side, which is too bad. All of which makes Europe's decline all that much sadder.  They could no more duplicate their automotive success of days past than we could land at Normandy and liberate Europe.  :'( Those days are gone for both of us I fear. Raise a glass tonight for days past fellas.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/26/13 at 19:20:52 I race 1/10 Radio Contol cars called the GT Mini Class. Its my favorite class of RC Racing. We race Fiats, Opels, Alpha Rs, JCW Mini Coops Alpha Romeo Mitas and of course the Mini Coopers and a few others. I would love to have a real Mini Cooper to drive to the race to run my toy one.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/26/13 at 20:10:40 Web you been paying attention to whats coming out of Detroit or wherever we make them now. Mustangs, Camaro's, Chargers, Challengers. Corvettes are still on the production line. The Germans reintroduced the Bug. English, Mini Coopers again. Its all for old fart dreamers like us who miss the good ol days. The only real sportscar I ever had was a Miata which was great for a Asian attempt at a sportscar. I'd love to have another one. I thought the Pontiac Soltice was beautiful but it disappeared quickly. I spent most of my money on motorcycles and guitars. I had 5 motorcycles when my wife met me but talk about old fart dreamers look at the interest now in Café Bikes. I wish Mick would come back to talk about the real ones. Honda is again making 4 cyl air cooled engines selling them in Europe. And just to make Pesi happy Vespas. These machines are made only for dreamers. The future is my 250 Ninja, 70mpg,100mph, cruise all day at 75mph, 10,000 miles on a set of tires and its affordable.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by mpescatori on 09/27/13 at 01:26:12 First things first, as I hate to fall prey to "false friends" when speaking/writing in English, I wrote a few posts back 8and before a sleepless night, prey to mosquitoes... again... :P) that the "Greek Boxer" was "forged". "Forged" as in Latin "Forgiare", i.e. "create working molten metal", not as in "counterfeit.  ;) As for the sports cars... THIS is the one and true Mini Cooper http://f3history.co.uk/Racingpics/bhguards69/support/saloons02small.jpghttp://www.motorsportscenter.com/uploads/rally_mini_cooper_s.jpg http://autoreview.belproject.com/media/1/mini-cooper-1964-monte-carlo-rally-win.jpg She was SO hot she won the 1964 Monte Carlo, humbling Porsches, Citroen and the like. http://classicmotorsports.net/articles/monte-carlo-minis/ The modern Mini Cooper looks nice alright, but it's a rebadged Mini BMW...  :-X nothing more than a german-built british wannabe  :-[ http://classicmotorsports.net/media/img/articles/mini_25_4676.jpg?js&keepThis=true&TB_iframe=false&height=400&width=700 ...if you know what I mean... It's as if someone bought a few names off ... a struggling Italian supercar firm and manufactured a chinese riceburner called "5ive" http://www.mycarportal.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Ferrari-F430-on-360-Forged-CF-Straight-5ive.jpg Purely as an example, of course ! However, please do not believe that the only Japanese sportscar was the Miata, quite the opposite: I, for one, clearly remember the Toyota Celica from the early '70s http://www.vistaview360.com/autos/auto_images/toyota_images/1974-toyota-Celica.jpg(which looked like a miniature Mustang), the Datsun 240Z http://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/plugins/PostviaEmail/images/1972_Datsun_240z_resize.jpg not to mention the "too fast to race" Skyline GT-R... http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu254/ZermattGt/scan0003.jpg Don't you guys miss the '70s ?  :-/

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/27/13 at 01:38:45 Nice,,

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 09/27/13 at 06:12:16 Actually, I miss the European offerings of the late 1950s and 60s.  By the 70s, the true sports cars were gone. My favorites were the MGA and MGB, the TR-3 and TR-4, Austin Sprites and Midgets, and the Sunbeam Alpine.  Those were all true sports cars, and affordable for nearly everyone.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/27/13 at 06:42:35 Yep,, highway safety killt them I guess.. Used to see little 2 seaters all  the time when I was a kid,,

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 09/27/13 at 07:10:26 JOG - Lots of things led to the demise of that genre of car.  I certainly can't list all. First was comfort - they were designed for short trips in England, not long trips in the U.S.  The MGA, TR-3, and early Sprites has side curtains for windows.  Roll up, glass windows didn't appear till the MGB and TR-4 and later Sprites and Midgets.  Sprites and Midgets are the same car, just badged as an Austin and MG, respectively.  Side curtains leak in the rain, and bow out at highway speeds, making the interior as secure as a tent in a hurricane.  Heaters and defrosters were laughable.  Little to no interior luggage space either. They weren't fast, some of them barely able to go 90 mph with a strong tailwind.  Again, on a twisty English country road they were fun to drive, but as we got more interstates here, they weren't up to the task of highway cruising. They weren't very reliable - especially the Lucas electrical systems.  Most had to have the cylinder heads removed for a valve job and de-carbonizing about every 30,000 to 40,000 miles.  Then the  odd quirks, like electrical fuel pumps - a wire coming loose stranded you along the road, or the idea of getting 12 volts by putting in 2 six volt batteries wired in series. Convertible tops were, of course, manual, and most were totally removed to open the car, and you stored a bunch of bows and the fabric top in the luggage area. In essence, they were primitive.  Fun as heck to drive on a nice summer day in the country, but horrible in American winter climates, unreliable as daily transportation, and of course, only 2 seats. The American consumer just wouldn't put up with all of that, especially into the 1970s were far more civilized cars came about. And, you are correct about the safety and pollution regulations - the last straws that broke their backs.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/27/13 at 07:28:13 Do you know why English drink warm Beer? They have Lucas refrigerators

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/27/13 at 07:43:48 I have a friend who still drives a Toyota Celica. Pesi A model company called Tamiya makes the famous Monte Carlo Mini Cooper. The models I race are reproductions of the old ones. Ive been driving by a mint British Racing Green Triumph with a for sale sign on it for the last 2 weeks. Its all I can do to keep the pickup from pulling in that driveway. I think MG's were better cars than Triumphs but not owning either that's not a professional opinion. I tuned several Mgs , Jags and Triumphs up for guys. I had a special stethoscope, you guys have seen em. With my musical background I could make those Webers sing the same note. Did the same with multi cylinder bikes too until I bought a mercury gauge. Helped a buddy of mine rebuild a 54 Jag over 40 years ago. I remember those pistons were the biggest ones I've ever seen. He had the paperwork from the factory and it was guaranteed to run 140mph from the factory in 1954

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 09/27/13 at 07:56:47 Midnight - I intentionally left Jags out of the discussion due to their price range, they weren't all that common.  Few people could afford them in those days. Having owned all of the cars I mentioned, the TR-3 and -4 were the best of the lot in terms of reliability and longevity, except for the Sunbeam Alpine, which was the best of all of them, but not a very common car. MGAs and Bs were more temperamental, and their engines weren't as powerful as the contemporary Triumph engines were.  My TR-3A even had a hand crank for starting the engine when the Lucas electrical starters failed, as they often did. In addition, the transmissions weren't synchro in first gear, only the top 3 gears were synchronized. Basically, the MGA, MGB, and TR-3 and -4 were, mechanically speaking, pre-WW II technology simply dressed up with newer bodies.  If you see the engines and drive trains of the MG TC, TD, and TF, cars of the 1940s and early 50s, they are virtually the same as the MGA and B.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/27/13 at 11:03:19 Jerry this Jag was very affordable. I wish I had before and after pictures of it but one of my ex wives ran off with them

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by mpescatori on 09/28/13 at 01:11:44 I've owned a Mini deTomaso (only one "S" please") which was the Italian Job, applied to the Mini Cooper. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Innocenti_De_Tomaso_001.jpghttp://www.simoncars.co.uk/mini/slides/Innocenti%20Mini%20Cooper%201300%20front.jpg 77bhp compared to 72 (dual carb like the old Minis, compared to the single carb version) a mere 770 Kg kerb weight and a hatchback meant I could actually move house in it - and I did, twice! Jaguars were a gentleman's car, not only for the price and quality, but for the engineering behind the XK engines. I know, I had a Series III Daimler Sovereign (1981 model) and she was a beauty, and the 6-inline sang like Pavarotti when revved beyond 3000 rpm! As for MGs and Triumphs, it's the equivalent to the "Mustang Vs. Camaro Vs. Chargers" in the US  ;) Both MG and Triumph insisted on the old OHV layout. True, MG TC, TD and TFs were rail chassis, but the MGS was a monococque body, albeit with the 1500cc engine off the MG TF. It was later upgraded to 1600ccs. The MGB was the watershed car, it sported a much improved monococque (lessons learned from racing the MGA Twin Cams at LeMans) and the OHV engine was hopped up to 1800ccs for 92-94 bhp (SAE net). Only the MkI MGBs had the 3-synchro gearbox, the later cars all shared a much improved 4-synchro, overdrie optional. Triumphs ware a different breed; whereas MGs shared the "Type A" Austin engine off family sedans, Triumph TRs had dedicated engines which produced buch better horsepower. See MGB GT (such as my own) and the Triumph GT6 (2000cc straight 6) http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42737000/jpg/_42737881_mark_dutton416.jpghttp://www.motorbase.com/uploads/2006/06/26/fs_gt6_left_side.jpg

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by WebsterMark on 09/28/13 at 05:01:33 I get a company car for work since I drive a lot and for the last two years, I had a 2011 Ford Escape, plain jane model. Nothing fancy, no options. I drove almost 85,000 miles and had zero problems with it. Other than oil and gas, never spent an extra penny on it. All in all, it was a great vehicle. We have to turn cars in after 75,000 miles and I picked up my new one yesterday. Since we have to haul a trailer now and then,I was given a 2014 Ford F-150. All the options, $43,000 sticker price. It's huge. Almost ridiculously so. 4 doors, it's basically a luxury car with a pick up bed on the back. I tried this and if I put the back seats up, I can lay down on the floor in back. Put an air mattress in there and I could sleep inside. I feel like I should take flying lessons from Jerry so I can follow everything going on in the cockpit.... I wish I had my short bed, 5 speed Sonoma again. I think, other than a Spitfire I had for a while, that little Sonoma pickup was my favorite vehicle.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Midnightrider on 09/28/13 at 13:33:50 Web I had a 4 dr Dodge Diesel. I felt exactly the same way and parking was a blast LOL. I bought it I believe in 2004. Diesel was about 35 cents cheaper than gas. I was going to buy a bigger boat, a 22ft CC.. Four months later later diesel shot up 30 cents higher than gas and I cancelled the boat. That's when the economy went to hell. That's why I don't play the stock market, I've never got my timing right.I drove the monster 2 years and traded it for a 06 4 dr Dodge Dakota RT. I absolutely love the Dakota. The RT has more HP and a better handling package like the RT cars. My truck was the Pace car at the 06 Martinsville Nascar Race. Dodge just built a few of them, I've never seen another one. I ended up buying a new nice 17' fishing boat, a Lund for you that are familiar with them. They're not popular here in the south but once you get above Washington DC Lunds are everywhere. They run them a lot on the Great Lakes. I cant tell its behind the Dakota. Last night my wife bought a 18 ft Travel Trailer. Havent picked it up yet but I don't think I'll have a bit of trouble pulling it. The Dakota is rated for 8000 lbs and the camper is one of the new light ones, 2700lbs. They keep building campers lighter and lighter so SUV's and Mini Vans can pull them. Well Web I bet Peci cant wait to call us a Redneck. We went from fine sports cars to pickups LOL.

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by WebsterMark on 09/28/13 at 19:17:00 Just a couple of Duck Dynasty wanna-be's.....

Title: Re: Time to  get a grip, folks.; Post by Paraquat on 09/29/13 at 19:35:58 My uncle speaks fondly of his old "Spitfire". Lousy Brits. A lot of the lean manufacturing techniques were adopted from Toyota during the 70's. American Auto manufacturers wondered why Jap cars were outselling them and they only attempted to mimic their techniques when threatened with the first gas shortage. --Steve

SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.