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Message started by HondaLavis on 09/10/13 at 18:30:20

Title: A thought about the (former) competition
Post by HondaLavis on 09/10/13 at 18:30:20

Doing some reading, I learned today about a few older models of bikes. Some of you oldtimers may already be familiar with them. The Honda FT500 was a small single cylinder bike available in the early 80's, but only lasted a few years. Yamaha had the SRX600, another small single cylinder that lasted from '85 until '97. Aesthetically, these were both a little different from our savage. They both have more of a sport or motard look than the savage, but technically they have many similarities. All are air cooled SOHC singles with compression ratios around 8.5:1, 5 speed gearboxes, and the engines laid out in very similar manners internally considering placement of items like filter, clutch, etc. All weigh around 380 pounds and are very nimble. However, both Honda and Yamaha were chain drive, had dual disc brakes, had bigger tanks (Y:4.8g, H:3.4g), were kickstart only, had slightly more forward ergonomics and had funky dual header into one muffler systems. The Yamaha put out considerably more power, while the Honda - being a 500 - put out less than our savage. However, the Honda could still muster a 93mph top speed!

Everything had it's own unique characteristics, but at the end of the day they all feel like the same basic principal to me. My questions is: how did our little Savage come out on top? Why did these die off so early, and ours has been going on for almost 30 years? Don't just tell me it was the electric start... :-?

If I'd known about the Yamaha SRX600 before I got my Savage - and I could FIND one - I'm not so sure I'd be here right now.

Title: Re: A thought about the (former) competition
Post by runwyrlph on 09/10/13 at 21:20:17

I'm just guessing ... how did those bikes compare in price to the savage?

Title: Re: A thought about the (former) competition
Post by Serowbot on 09/11/13 at 01:44:05

So many bikes I've admired over the years have been short lived...

SR500,... GN400,... GB500,... GT650,... W650,... VX800,... Goose 350...

I think part of what made the Savage succeed,.. was that it was a cheap, throw away, Sportster to learn on...
... but, when those folks moved on to a Sportster... ... we kept on buying up the used ones... instead of letting them die...

And we just won't shut up talking about how much fun we're having...
;D...

Title: Re: A thought about the (former) competition
Post by oldNslow on 09/11/13 at 05:54:07

Quote:

Don't just tell me it was the electric start...

OK. I won't. But I think that was probably part of it. Friend of mine had one of these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_SR500

Not a bad bike really but it could be very finicky about starting, especially when the engine was warm and he shut it off for a short period of time and then went to fire it up again. I don't remember how the automatic compression worked but even with that gadget it could be a bear to kick over.

Title: Re: A thought about the (former) competition
Post by oldNslow on 09/11/13 at 05:56:41

"automatic compression release" I mean.

Title: Re: A thought about the (former) competition
Post by HondaLavis on 09/11/13 at 06:09:54

Here's an interesting article that actually compares all three: http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/classic-japanese-motorcycles/yamaha-srx600.aspx?PageId=1#axzz2eaXpVmQ2 Some of the information differs from what I read last night, but it's a good overall comparison.

The Yami started out around $2,600 back then, and the Honda between $1,900 - $2,200 depending on the year.

Thinking about it a bit more, Serow, I think you're right. our combination of electric start, low seat height, low maintenance belt drive, and easy maneuverability may have been our winning point. Heck, even our low stock power might've helped ease some newbies in. It also doesn't help that with performance parts on the Yam, it was basically a nice big single competing with inline-4 performance bikes.

OldNslow, from what I read both the SR500 and the SRX600 were super easy to flood once they were warm. If he ever touched the throttle while starting, that would make sense.

Title: Re: A thought about the (former) competition
Post by LANCER on 09/12/13 at 03:51:10

I have had both the SR500 and SRX600.
The SR500 was easy to ride, no issues with starting, power very similar to the Savage, good price, good mileage, a good all around bike. I wish I still had it; there are lots of stuff available for it.

The SRX I had was a pain. The dual carb system it had did not work well at all. When I bought it, it included an extra set of carbs. I tried both and rebuilt both sets, but to no avail. I got tired of messing with it and sold it.

Title: Re: A thought about the (former) competition
Post by Charon - FSO on 09/12/13 at 05:51:32

Let us not forget that the original Savage only lasted about three years in the United States before Suzuki dropped it due to lack of sales. That puts it about even with the Honda and Yamaha singles. Apparently it stayed in production in other parts of the world, and when Suzuki thought they needed an (almost) loss-leader cruiser they added an unnecessary fifth gear and brought it back.

I do have to say the electric starter is probably the reason it sold. I doubt you will get beginners to buy anything, even small bikes, without electric start. I also suspect electric starters, like power steering in cars, make it possible for some of us "old geezers" to keep riding for many more years.