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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
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Message started by Digger on 08/16/13 at 19:39:24

Title: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by Digger on 08/16/13 at 19:39:24

Hello all,

Changin' out front brake pads today, I stuck a mike on my front brake rotor. I'm gettin' a thickness of 0.155" or so.

The FSM says that the wear limit is 0.160"!

Now, my bike is strictly an urban warrior. It's got less than 14,000 miles on it. And, I'm not thinkin' I need to get real worried yet.

1. What are the thoughts from the hive mind concerning the criticality of my situation? I'm thinkin' I'll change it out in another 13,000 miles or so - it's grooved a bit, but not too bad....

Some research revealed that the part number for the front brake rotor has changed at least once over the years. The part number for the 1986-2004 models (mine is a 2001 model) is 59211-24B00. The part number for the 2005-2009 models is 59211-24B10. I was unable to get the part number for any bikes newer than a 2009 model.

2. Is a 2004 model year front brake rotor interchangeable with a 2005 model year number front brake rotor?

TIA!

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by Serowbot on 08/16/13 at 23:31:19

You don't strike as a squiddly type, Digger... ;D...

You do strike me as the observant type...
I believe the main fear of worn rotor, is overheating of that thin metal, and resultant warping...
If you notice pulsating down the road,.. that will indicate that rotor has warped,... and you'll know why...
I wouldn't worry 'till I felt it...

I am a cheap bastard though... :-?...

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by verslagen1 on 08/16/13 at 23:53:11

I'd go ahead and change it.
wear characteristics are akin to hardness
and hardness is akin to strength

the real question is what did you start with?

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by Serowbot on 08/16/13 at 23:59:50

Versy calls me right out when I'm wrong... ;D...

That's a big yes/no if yer keeping track... ;D...

:-/...

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by verslagen1 on 08/17/13 at 00:09:30

I was going to agree with you and as I was building a case...
I ran thru safety factors...
and strength...
and hardness...
and soft materials wear faster...
bingo.

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by Serowbot on 08/17/13 at 00:29:14

... and I am cheap... ;D...

My Geo Metro,.. has such tiny drums on the back, that the machine shop said they can't turn them...
:-?... K-rap!...
I put them back on, and have been running for 20k miles...
...(PS, don't stop short in front of me)... ;D...

That may not support my opinion... but, it does explain it... :-?...

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/17/13 at 04:13:41

WEll,, they both make good points.. Ima cheap one, too..

IF its softer toward the middle, shouldnt the braking improve?

Could you check thickness, write it down, with miles on the bike, then check thickness every 1,000 miles or so & see how fast the disc is going away?
Of course, if it warps, its time,

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by oldNslow on 08/17/13 at 06:43:49

Just went out and measured mine. 2006/a bit over 10,000 mi.

Measured in three places - .174 in.

So Diggers is .019 thinner. That's about the thickness of two sheets of typing paper. If it was mine, and it was still flat,I wouldn't worry about it.

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/17/13 at 07:55:46

The FSM says that the wear limit is 0.160"!

Well,, ya know,, the same folks told us Juuust how to use that belt tensioning doohickey. You dont suppose some engineer just randomly popped that number outta hizzass do ya? Or you spose they calculated the heat input coming down from a hot run & the heat consumption/dissipation & somehow decided that it was just liable to fail?
Id ride it, but God if you do & it gets ya Ima feel bad forever

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by WD on 08/17/13 at 09:03:17

Mine is as thick as the day it first shipped in 1997 as a 1998 model... and I'm probably going to use a Titan front wheel... twin leading shoe drum. Titan and first 6 months of production GT750 2 stroke triple are the only good brakes "Slow Pokey" ever made...

My rotor was over tempered, sounds like Digger's was under tempered. Typical. I'd rather have under tempered and add the next thickness of pads when the rotor has worn down a bit. EBC has the same 106 brake pad in 3 thicknesses...

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by Oldfeller on 08/17/13 at 09:49:38

Annealing? Heat softening your rotor? Really, oh my goodness we are all gonna jest DIE from that there deadly blue rotor-itus ....

Come to the mountains with us when Big Zuk is leading the pack .... we've stopped at the Dragon overlook and remarked that all the Suzukis sitting there jest a pinging their exhaust systems from the hard run they all had blue front disk rotors from all the hard braking we'd been a doing.

.160" has been noted in the past as being a very conservative change point for a rotor that Suzuki wants such megga bucks just to sell you another thin arsed one.

I am at .166" right now (just measured it) and I still have Dragon blue down at the bottom of my wear grooves. I'll change mine when it finally does warp. Since it has been thermally abused twice a year for over six years now that warpage thing isn't so easy to do, now is it?

;D

Remember, when the time comes EBC sells a thicker rotor for less money. Or you can buy a ENTIRE used front wheel assembly for less than Suzuki wants for just the rotor. You get some free tire life that way too.

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by Oldfeller on 08/17/13 at 09:54:24

446967676572000 wrote:

Digger, we went round & round about 5 years ago on some brake pads (ceramic SBS in particular) causing a lot more rotor wear than other pads (EBC was the other one compared).

Which brand of pads have you been using to get so much wear on your rotor?

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by verslagen1 on 08/17/13 at 10:26:50

annealing for steel occurs around 1900°F
whereas blueing will occur around 6 to 800°F
which is around the tempering temp. if the steel has been full hardened.

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by WD on 08/17/13 at 10:45:10

Rotor on mine is so hard that brake pads skip instead of trying to slow the bike. It is okay at low speeds, but anything over about 35mph, forget it, just noise and pad debris. Even with EBC pads.

I have access to a couple hundred sets of Titan asbestos brake shoes. I know the wheel works on my Savage, have used it before, Just need to order some new (matching) 1" brake/clutch perches and levers and get a cable made. I have the removable stay Titan wheel, not the tabbed brake plate version, so just bolt the stay to the fender bolt.

Means the 1963 Honda 250 will be sls front and tls rear like stock, but with only 14 or 17hp, I can live with that.

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by Oldfeller on 08/17/13 at 11:10:53

33203736292422202B74450 wrote:

annealing for steel occurs around 1900°F
whereas blueing will occur around 6 to 800°F
which is around the tempering temp. if the steel has been full hardened.

For a full anneal yes, but the draw temperatures are much lower. What we do on the Dragon is a many times repeated deep blue draw zone heat/cool cycle, which progressively softens the rotor steel slowly over time.

But it never reaches the point the rotor becomes useless. It may reach the point the rotor begins to wear faster though. These repeated heat/cool cycles will stress relieve the rotor, so if it had any built in stress buckle left in it from the original sheet metal mill "big roll" form it would show itself after getting blue hot.

Versy is right, anneal was the wrong word. A full anneal on a stainless rotor would take a dull red temperature and I do not think we have ever seen a rotor glowing in the dark yet.

;) but we is a working on it every early summer Dragon trip

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by Digger on 08/20/13 at 19:27:14

4F5C4B4A55585E5C5708390 wrote:

....the real question is what did you start with?

Ver,

Well, I measured the outermost annular ridge on the rotor and came up with ~0.18". I'm presuming that would be about the thickness of a brand new (old-style) rotor.....

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by Digger on 08/20/13 at 20:15:51

01222A282B22222B3C4E0 wrote:

Yeah, I hear ya. I've always been an advocate of "soft" pads that don't last very long, but yield good rotor life.

To answer your question, the OEM pads lasted 3500 miles. I replaced them with Ferodo Platinum pads (organic). Those lasted until 7600 miles, when I replaced them with EBC (pretty sure they were organic, but they say "FA106X" on the backs of the pads, whereas the new EBC pads I'm putting in there (organic, also) say just "FA106" on their back, with no "X" suffix).

I did, however, make an interesting discovery as I was pulling the caliper apart so that I could grease the slide pins: Apparently, back during my first pad change (3500 miles on the bike, July 04 - nine years and 10,000 miles ago), I greased said pins using "Kendall Super-Blu Multi-Purpose Grease L-427." Said grease is a blue-colored, lithium based, NGLI No. 2 grease that is recommended for, among other things, "High Temp Disc Brake." Well, the grease had gotten so thick that I had a fairly hard time pulling the caliper holder from the caliper body proper.

I can't imagine that the pads were easily backing off from the rotor when I let up on the brakes.....there was probably some fairly decent residual contact, which would eat on the rotor, I suppose.

In any event, I plan on using this stuff to grease the pins this time (which I will do every pad change from now on):

http://www.permatex.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/24125.jpg (http://www.permatex.com/products-2/product-categories/lubricants/specialty-lubricants-brakes/permatex-ceramic-extreme-brake-parts-lubricant-detail)

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/20/13 at 21:34:24

Woe is me,, I just slap some antiseize on,,

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by oldNslow on 08/21/13 at 06:08:56

534C4A4D50576656665E4C400B390 wrote:

Woe is me,, I just slap some antiseize on,,

Anti-seize works fine. The can I'm using now is Permatex brand - silver color. This is a very common problem with brake calipers on a lot of cars up here in the salt-belt. The cure is to pull the pins, and slather them up with Anti-sieze once a year or so.

Title: Re: Is My Front Brake Rotor Done After 13K Miles?
Post by Digger on 08/22/13 at 20:27:48

Anti-sieze may work but it's not optimum, as it's not waterproof.....