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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Petcock fires -- getting closer to home
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Message started by Oldfeller on 08/05/13 at 04:10:07

Title: Petcock fires -- getting closer to home
Post by Oldfeller on 08/05/13 at 04:10:07

Vac petcocks are failing all over motorcycle land now .... very publicly.

Honda and Kawasaki have each issued limited product campaigns to replace certain of their models petcocks (ones that have confirmed actual "burn in place" issues).

The key thing seems to be having a "confirmed burn in place" issue that keys the legal beagles in a company to kick off a limited recall campaign in preference to a DOT, NHTSA or some other Consumer Protection Agency level type recall which would likely be far more widespread, general and far far more expensive.

So far we have had gas in sumps, gas in air boxes and gas on the floor type issues with the Suzuki vac petcock. No actual fires yet though. And it isn't just the Savage as a particular model that has this vac petcock issue .... lookie at this one.

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/934992-warning-drz-400-petcock-almost-set-my-house-on-fire/

Warning DRZ-400 petcock almost set my house on fire!
Started by Mav44 , Jan 08 2012 06:42 PM

36 replies to this topic

Mav44

Posted 08 January 2012 - 06:42 PM
#1

I have my DRZ-400 stored in my garage for the winter. The other night my son came down the hall and stated the back part of the house smelled like gas. I ran into the garage and an almost full tank of gas was coating the floor and under the cars. Worse yet is we have a gas water heater in the garage that was about to cycle on.

I made everyone get out of the house while I opened the garage door, turned on fans, turned off the water heater, removed cars and stated pulling boxes and other items soaked with gas out. After about 2 hours of clean up I was finally able to put stuff back.

As it turns out it was the vacuum ring in the fuel petcock had gone bad and was allowing gas to drain from the tank. What idiot that never put a "off" position on a motorcycle gas tank should be shot or at least sued.

This is really dangerous and if we had been out to a dinner or a movie I could have lost everything. If you have a DRZ-400 without a gas "off" position keep a close eye on the petcock and any gas leaks or better yet change it out so you can shut off the gas.

Posted 08 January 2012 - 06:47 PM
#2

That's a very good reason to install a manual petcock.....

A pat on the back for your son being attentive otherwise it could have ended in tears ....

===================

So, we continue to muddle along with the current vac petcock situation, knowing full well that our vac petcock was never designed to work with 10% alcohol gasoline mixtures and that even using normal full gas with no alcohol it still had historical problems that developed over time in a motorcycle that can last (and many have indeed lasted) for decades.

Over time, this seems to be a poor bet to make, especially if you keep your bike in an enclosed attached garage.

Title: Re: Petcock fires -- getting closer to home now
Post by ToesNose on 08/05/13 at 04:24:43

Yea and now the government is looking to add more ethanol to our gas, a number of car manufacturers have said that they will not include engines on their auto warranties in the USA if that happens :o

Title: Re: Petcock fires -- getting closer to home now
Post by Oldfeller on 08/05/13 at 07:37:41

So, what can we do to protect our own membership?

Lord knows we used to see a single gas in sump or a gas in the air box only every 4-6 months.
Seems like they are getting more frequent now.

How long before we have something really bad to happen to someone here on the list?

Or do we have to just sit and wait for the first real fire to take place?

Title: Re: Petcock fires -- getting closer to home now
Post by verslagen1 on 08/05/13 at 08:23:29

Interesting... he talks about a "vacuum ring" failing allowing gas to leak on the floor.

A search for the Honda recall shows that the failure is for gas leaking from the petcock, presumably on the floor too.

since a diaphragm failure would send gas either to the airbox or case 1st... they might be talking about the o-ring that seals the handle. Even the manual petcock has one of those.

seems we need a little more info.

This is why appliances with pilot lights in the garage are supposed to be 18" off the floor and why there is a floor level vent.

Title: Re: Petcock fires -- getting closer to home now
Post by Oldfeller on 08/05/13 at 13:36:23

Here is the Honda verbiage ..... it was the diaphragm leaking, just like on ours.

2007 Honda Cruiser recalls

In effect for 2007 Shadow VLX and VTX1300, along with 07-08 VT750 Aero & Spirits:

According to a warning issued by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), "the fuel control valve diaphragm and the fuel valve may drip fuel. In the presence of an ignition source, dripping fuel poses the risk of fire."

The recall will affect 39,000 VT600s, VLXs and VTX1300s and apparently all 750 V-twins designated '07 or '08 models. Honda dealers will replace the fuel control valve diaphragm assembly free of charge when the recall officially begins, on April 10.

Consumers may contact Honda at 1-866-784-1870 or the NHTSA at 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), or view more info at http://safercar.gov or consumeraffairs.com

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/fea...led/index.html

Recall Number: 08V141000
Summary:
HONDA IS RECALLING 38,934 MY 2006-2007 VT600 AND MY 2007-2008 VT750 AND VTX1300 MOTORCYCLES. THE MOTORCYCLES MAY HAVE AN IMPROPERLY MANUFACTURED FUEL CONTROL VALVE DIAPHRAGM AND THE FUEL VALVE MAY DRIP FUEL.
Consequence:
IN THE PRESENCE OF AN IGNITION SOURCE, DRIPPING FUEL POSES THE RISK OF FIRE.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE FUEL CONTROL VALVE DIAPHRAGM ASSEMBLY, FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN ON OR ABOUT APRIL 10, 2008. OWNERS MAY CONTACT HONDA AT 1-866-784-1870.
Notes:
HONDA RECALL NO. Q75. CUSTOMERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV.

Now the actual danger statement the NHTS used is sorta interesting, as it applies to our air box leak collection point as any form of spit back from the intake valve not closing 100% could provide the "ignition source" required by the recall verbiage. Hey, backfires happen ....

Consequence: IN THE PRESENCE OF AN IGNITION SOURCE, DRIPPING FUEL POSES THE RISK OF FIRE.

Ours would read: In the presence of an ignition source, explosive vapors from the accumulated liquid fuel collected in the bottom of the air box would pose the risk of fire.

Title: Re: Petcock fires -- getting closer to home now
Post by Oldfeller on 08/05/13 at 14:00:05

Question now becomes, on stock bikes with the flat filter in the air box -- is the flat chunk of window screen (which is a part of the air filter assembly) good enough to act as a flame arrestor?

Dunno -- might just be why we haven't burned anybody up yet.

Those that have taken the stock filter box off and are simply running a cone filter -- I betcha you can have fuel literally dripping from bottom of the cone filter on to your hot engine if your vac petcock does a wizzer on you ..... so add miscellaneous road sparks to your list of possible ignition sources (in addition to engine heat and back fire) for the Ryca and the bobber boys.

Title: Re: Petcock fires -- getting closer to home now
Post by verslagen1 on 08/05/13 at 14:30:13

2E0D0507040D0D0413610 wrote:

Question now becomes, on stock bikes with the flat filter in the air box -- is the flat chunk of window screen (which is a part of the air filter assembly) good enough to act as a flame arrestor?

No but the paper filter does.

Title: Re: Petcock fires -- getting closer to home now
Post by Oldfeller on 08/05/13 at 18:18:55

http://www.pakwheels.com/forums/attachments/cng-lpg/474865d1146772920-air-filter-burn-burned_air_filter1_2in_pakwheels-com-.jpg

Yeah, looks like they use some sort of flame retardant on the fabric air filter paper that works pretty much OK when it is dry and clean.

Still, when the filters are damp with fuel from the petcock leak I think they would call these things "wicks" when the flame front actually hits them.

Say they actually block the flame front for the microseconds of the spit back event, but then if they catch fire themselves and then burn through fairly quickly driven by the suction air blast ..... no big difference in the end, really.

I guess we will eventually see, eventually.

:-/

With time, all things become clear.