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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> stretched cam chain /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1375590633 Message started by savagerider87 on 08/03/13 at 21:30:32 |
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Title: stretched cam chain Post by savagerider87 on 08/03/13 at 21:30:32 hey guys, what i thought was a valve noise from my bike turned out to be a much more severe problem, the cam chain stretched from the maximum service limit of 5.01" to an insane 5.21". This blows my mind as to how this happened with only 21k on the clock, and i was wondering if anyone else has had this happen so prematurely? is it normal to have a chain stretch that much or did i get lucky as no damage resulted ( no damage to chain tensioner or guides thank god) Any thoughts? |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/03/13 at 21:39:36 YOu got 21 out of it!? Most get replaced around 15,, consider yourself watched over by higher powers, dead motors result from letting that spring get loose in there., |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by savagerider87 on 08/03/13 at 21:48:11 36292F2835320333033B29256E5C0 wrote:
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/03/13 at 21:55:55 I cant remember where I was on the clock when I did the chain, wanna say around 15,000 miles,, I cant see it makin 21,000,, I dont think I had 6 more in it,, others have lost engines at less than 21,000 miles. If youre keepin it, you really otta do the Verslavy |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by savagerider87 on 08/03/13 at 22:08:49 thats next on the list ;) |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by Cloudy on 08/03/13 at 22:14:20 I did my wifes (bike that is) at 15,000 km. adjuster was out at 19mm. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by savagerider87 on 08/03/13 at 22:16:14 6E4142584954795F4446485F2D0 wrote:
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by verslagen1 on 08/03/13 at 22:42:45 are you sure you measured it correctly? I don't believe it possible to be stretched that far and the plunger still be in. 514255544B4640424916270 wrote:
http://www.ls-650.de/techfotos/steuerketten.jpg |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by savagerider87 on 08/03/13 at 22:49:54 6B786F6E717C7A78732C1D0 wrote:
http://www.ls-650.de/techfotos/steuerketten.jpg [/quote] yeah i measured it against the ssm, and i have a new one on order, the adjuster is good and the tensioner and guides are spotless, so im stumped as to what caused this any thoughts? |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by Steve H on 08/04/13 at 07:45:32 IIRC the prevailing theory is that heating and cooling cycles contribute most to the chain stretching. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by Dave on 08/04/13 at 07:51:54 392B3C2B2D2F38232E2F38727D4A0 wrote:
You've been a member here for 6 months.....and you somehow have missed all the cam chain discussions during that time? If you have it apart far enough to measure the chain....you might as well put a new chain in a put it back together. Then make arrangements to ge the the Verslagen before you drive the next 12,000 miles. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by Toroso on 08/04/13 at 12:06:46 1D262B3C2D213A3C272F223D4E0 wrote:
You've been a member here for 6 months.....and you somehow have missed all the cam chain discussions during that time? If you have it apart far enough to measure the chain....you might as well put a new chain in a put it back together. Then make arrangements to ge the the Verslagen before you drive the next 12,000 miles.[/quote] How difficult is it to replace the cam chain? |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by verslagen1 on 08/04/13 at 12:11:45 By judging how hard it is too look it up in the tech sect must print near impossible for some. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by Oldfeller on 08/04/13 at 12:25:30 I hate it when you talk a post into your phone and it slurs your speech -- "Aggravating it is" sez Master Yoda. "Longer to fix than to do" sez he. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by apache snow on 08/04/13 at 13:12:18 372C75767770727D440 wrote:
I would say that heating and cooling cycles is not the cause, but cold start-ups having to build oil pressure each time would be the cause of excess chain wear. Now you can say thats also heating and cooling cycles but heating and cooling cycles in themselves is not the cause of wear but starting from cold with zero oil pressure will hasten premature wear if excessive starts verses miles driven. Just my opinion. And I too don't understand that much wear and the plunger not coming out. :-? |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/04/13 at 14:33:35 Tansioner reaches new tooth on ratchet engine heats up cylinder gets taller stretches chain/wears pins really Thats why people who ride more miles per start, heat up/shut down/cool off cycle get more miles. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by apache snow on 08/04/13 at 14:37:10 Yeah right.. :-? |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/04/13 at 14:42:25 Well,, yea, thats right. Been here discussing this for years before you showed up. Im feelin confident after several very experienced mechanics on these agreed.If youre not seein it, that doesnt mean hoot to me. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by apache snow on 08/04/13 at 14:57:40 Whatever dude. This is your forum not mine. Ya'll have fun. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by WD on 08/04/13 at 15:11:08 Bad drive chains make it through quality control tests pretty frequently, so it isn't that much of a surprise for a cam chain to sneak through as well. I had an o.e.m. o-ring drive chain from a good manufacturer (Kawasaki) that only lasted 10K miles, the cheap plain chain I replaced it with was going strong with over 34K miles on it. It happens. Change the chain and keep going. Add a Versy adjuster to the new set up, at least that way if you get another funky chain (probably Chinese made these days as opposed to Japanese made) the plunger assembly will stay in place for sure. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by savagerider87 on 08/04/13 at 19:54:30 5447030 wrote:
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by Steve H on 08/04/13 at 20:16:42 Look in the marketplace and find Verslagen's place. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by stinger on 08/05/13 at 02:25:18 I know most of you have heard this a hundred times but I'm baffled why I have so many miles on my bike and am only on my second cam chain at 51,500 miles. Savage Greg and I changed it at 33,000 miles. The chain and plunger allowance was within limits still. I am going to open it up at the end of the season and get me a Versy so I am not so darned paranoid about riding my bike after all of these cam chain posts. So far, I have not had one repair done on my bike other than tires, brakes, (front and rear once), no engine leaks and the engine is still as quiet as new. In fact, I have only adjusted the valves once. The only thing I can figure is I have never used first gear. I have always started out in second because it gives me better acceleration from a stop. Clutch is still fine. I never try and rev the engine to it's limits in each gear and usually in 5th gear by the time Im doing 40-45 mph. Most of my riding seems to be 55 mph to 75 because I ride the freeways lot. Have always used 50 weight Castro auto oil and it seems to keep my bike running cool after long rides. I have been really lucky with this bike and think I got a rare one indeed. Most of my other bikes have fallen apart long before this one will. Now I ma going to knock on wood because I know if I don't, my cam chain will go out tomorrow. Supertrapp with 8 discs, K@N air filter, rejetted, Lancers high performance cam |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by Dave on 08/05/13 at 03:19:42 Stinger: Tell us about the length and frequency of your rides. Do you ride a short or long period after starting up you bike? How many miles do you travel on an average ride? It sounds like you take good care of your bike and don't ride it aggressively. Dave |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by verslagen1 on 08/05/13 at 07:17:09 stinger, if I remember correctly, you got a "verslagen" mod'd adjuster... pinned plunger, no second hole. Greg bought a couple at the time that he changed your chain. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by stinger on 08/06/13 at 01:10:18 I do not know what Gregg did with the other one but it was not installed on my bike. I certainly wish that was the case. I would breathe a lot easier. Maybe he put it on his wifes Julies bike. Dave, I have ridden as much as 700 miles in one day from Missoula Montana to Portland Or and tons of 250/ 400 mile trips in a day. I just do not run the crap out of the bike. By the way, Vers, Gregg moved back to North Carolina to be with family. It was kinda odd how I ran in to him here. I chatted with him in here long before he moved to the NW. I had no idea he was moving and lost contact with him for a while. Then he popped in and said he was staying in a motel til he could find a place. Turned out he was staying for a couple of weeks in a hotel 5 miles from me. Then we were like neighbors. He started a business selling bike parts on ebay and made some good money.Another friend of mine gave him a old 70 something Honda 750 on the way to the scrap yard and he parted it and made $1,700. He even parted out his Savage and made alot more than if he sold it ready to ride. It only had 11,000 miles on it. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by Dane Allen on 08/06/13 at 11:22:15 11160B0C050710620 wrote:
What is the group concensus on starting out in 2nd? I commute daily about 26 miles one-way and if this is better for engine longevity then I will start doing it. I've really tried to keep the sustained speeds at under 75 and 60% of my ride is between 50 and 65 (with the 140/80-15 tire, that is) since the "80% of top speed" discussion a few months back. Also, when we put the Versy on I think I was already half way through the stretch range (not sure how useful that demarcation is but I was almost to the 2nd hole) at under 3,000 miles. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by bobert_FSO on 08/06/13 at 13:40:36 It's been discussed here, but I don't know if anyone has actually tried removing every other tooth on the tensioner to allow the chain to run a little more slack between tightening clicks. That would be a worthy project. Of course, the results might be inconclusive or take a loooong time determine results. There must be some way to improve on what appears to be just a poor original design on an otherwise fairly robust engine. The versy, although ingenious, doesn't improve the accelerated wear problem, it just keeps the current poor design from destroying engine. The way I see it, requiring cam chain replacement or 2nd-holing the tensioner within 12k miles of a new bike is really dumb. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by Dane Allen on 08/06/13 at 13:44:28 2924292E393F4B0 wrote:
I have the 5-year unlimited mileage warranty so we will see if it's worth anything. I bought new at the end of March and just passed 5,100 miles today. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by Dave on 08/06/13 at 14:00:36 6964696E797F0B0 wrote:
I don't believe this is workable. I understand the desire is to allow more movement before it catches another notch - but the teetch are small and catch several teeth at a time. You woujld have to grind every other tooth off both the shaft and ratchet to make this work.....and then hope that it is strong enough with only half the original number of teeth engaged. If you were to modify the tensioner so you could allow the spring and ratchet to preload the chain - then lock the ratchet in place so that it would not add additional tension automatically.....then you could release the ratchet periodically to allow the chain to add more tension when it is needed. This would require taking the clutch cover off for access to the locking device. It might be as simple as drilling a hole and making a locking pin! |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/06/13 at 15:05:14 76535C57735E5E575C320 wrote:
I have the 5-year unlimited mileage warranty so we will see if it's worth anything. I bought new at the end of March and just passed 5,100 miles today.[/quote] What that means id theyll slap a chain in it.. YOu fail to take it in & kill the motor because it didnt get serviced & youre walkin,, |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by bobert_FSO on 08/06/13 at 17:02:49 Dave, I didn't realize that the pawl has multiple ridges. That would make skipping ridges more difficult. A manual adjuster sounds intriguing. Too bad the design doesn't lend itself to such a mod. My first bike, a '67 Honda S90, had a manual adjuster, but it hung out in the open and was easy to get to. |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by Dane Allen on 08/08/13 at 10:58:15 Starting out in 2nd doesn't work for me, there is a certain torque to mass ratio that I am exceeding ;) ;D |
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Title: Re: stretched cam chain Post by Digger on 08/19/13 at 19:30:19 496C63684C616168630D0 wrote:
I popped a Verslavy into mine (see my signature block) when it had 10,100 miles on it. I could not use the second hole, the cam chain was still too tight for that. FWIW, I use mine for almost exclusively all short trips...... |
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