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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Starter problem ?
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Message started by Steve H on 07/30/13 at 19:48:39

Title: Starter problem ?
Post by Steve H on 07/30/13 at 19:48:39

'87, dyna muffler only mod, almost 24k miles, went to start it tonight and it kicked back. Since kicking back, i've got noise from the starter gears. It still starts fine but makes nasty noises.

Does it sound like the gears got messed up?

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by Oldfeller on 07/30/13 at 20:34:17

Pop the left side case off (tilt bike over a lot and you might not have to drop out the load of oil) and look.

Do it now, before the gears tear themselves up even worse, or get in a bind and crack your steel gear spud off, busting your case boss open and making your engine into junk.

In tech section there is a mod to put an anti-kickback gear into the older bikes -- you can still do this if you haven't munched up the world yet.

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by paulmarshall on 07/31/13 at 13:31:04

273C65666760626D540 wrote:

I hate to say it but yes. :(
I had to replace mine, Luckily I had a spare engine.

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by Steve H on 07/31/13 at 15:10:19

I was afraid that was what I was going to hear. It won't get started again until I get the cover off and see what's up in there.

Anybody got a side cover and good inti-kickback gears they want to sell?

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by paulmarshall on 07/31/13 at 15:50:14

You can keep using it. Mine made sounds like gears grinding for a year before I replaced the starter gear.

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by Steve H on 07/31/13 at 16:54:56

That's about the type of sounds I get too. No slipping or anything. Just grinding sounds.

Did you pull the cover to see what it looked like before you kept running it? What did it look like when you did pull the cover?

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/31/13 at 16:58:07

Kinda depends on Just how messed up it is,, not everthing busts the same way,, open it, look around, if you cant find all the bits & pieces, drain oil & fish with a magnet, heck,, Id go fishin anyway,, doesnt take much junk, tiny bits of junk,,thru an oil pump, to skank it up.. Those gears break, the dont hafta break clean,, little tiny bits you may not even notice are missing,, not worth losin an engine 6 months down the road cuz your oil pump was slightly compromised.. Its not like they put out oodles of PSI,,
lose 10% efficiency & see where ya are..

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by paulmarshall on 07/31/13 at 17:08:18

1308515253545659600 wrote:

I couldn't visually see anything when I opened it. It was the sound that told me what was wrong.
By all means get it fixed asap.I did leave it too long however it didn't do any damage, not saying it wont.

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by Steve H on 08/02/13 at 17:20:41

Ok, Guys,
I read the tech thread. Doesn't sound too terrible except that it'll cost $150 or so getting a cover and the gear. And it looks like I have to have a black cover. :(

What's the usual failure point? I haven't pulled off the cover yet.

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/03/13 at 00:48:34

I havent been in there, but Ive heard there are washers involved & if you dont get them right the starter wont play

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by Steve H on 08/03/13 at 08:27:21

I pulled the cover last night. Nothing in there looks the slightest bit damaged at all. All gear teeth are perfect. All mounting holes are perfect, no cracks or enlargement. No metal pieces of any kind. Magnet didn't find anything either.

The funny noise, from what I can tell, is coming from the driven gear behind the stator. If you turn it backwards, it makes a funny noise for a few seconds then quietens. I also noticed that this big gear will move side to side about 1.5mm. Is this normal?

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by verslagen1 on 08/03/13 at 09:00:59

no not normal
check to see if the case isn't cracked

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by Steve H on 08/03/13 at 09:45:12

Engine cases looked perfect. I know there's a clutch in this big gear. could the clutch be messed up? This gear bolts to the back of the stator doesn't it? What's involved in getting the stator of to check it?

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by paulmarshall on 08/03/13 at 13:25:10

372C75767770727D440 wrote:

Like I said there was nothing to see. Only a terrible noise. I too could not see any damage to the starter gear but it was damaged.

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by Steve H on 08/04/13 at 08:02:08

Hey PaulMarshall,

did you pull off the magnet wheel and check the driven gear and clutch?

I've got side to side movement on the driven gear and also noises when I rotate the gear backward.

I see the gear rides on needle bearings on the shaft and apparently the clutch rides on the outside cylindrical surface of the inner part of the gear. Wonder if it messed up the needle bearings or the clutch? The engine was turning over then when it kicked back, dead lockup. I let off the starter button soon as it happened. When I hit it again, I had the noise but it started right up.

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by Dave on 08/05/13 at 05:00:03

706B32313037353A030 wrote:

No the gear does not bolt to the back of the rotor. The gear rides on a smooth bearing surface machined onto the back of the rotor. The bearings allow the gear to remain stationary while the engine is running, and the starter clutch locks onto the bearing surface when the starter is turning. You need a puller to remove the rotor assembly from the crank to get access to the starter gear and starter clutch.

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by Steve H on 08/05/13 at 18:17:20

Dave,

Thanks for the info on that. So, it could be either the needle bearings in the center that ride on the shaft or the bearings in the clutch that are making noise?

Guess I have to pull it all apart to find out for sure which. Or, would the better idea be to replace both and put in the torque limiting gear also?

Anybody have any idea how much that puller is?

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by verslagen1 on 08/05/13 at 18:45:05

50-80

Title: Re: Starter problem ?
Post by paulmarshall on 08/05/13 at 22:33:42

302B72717077757A430 wrote:

Hi Steve I see Dave has chimed in. :)