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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> ...and this is where I just weep for my country /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1375061963 Message started by Pine on 07/28/13 at 18:39:22 |
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Title: ...and this is where I just weep for my country Post by Pine on 07/28/13 at 18:39:22 So I was in a hotel room and had the TV going for background noise.. "Meet the Press" The host ( David Gregory) was interviewing Treasury Secretary Jack Lew, when I happend to SEE the secretary say this: "We can't cut our way to prosperity" The entire show is here: http://presspass.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/28/19734664-watch-meet-the-press-more-fighting-in-washington?lite Basically the discussion was about the Dems( White house) versus the repugs...and who will shut down the country if they dont get their way. But this one statement... this evil one statement says that that is wrong with washington... "We can't cut our way to prosperity" So does that mean we can spend our way to prospertity? Really?? How does that work? Spend $100 at Walmart.. I get $1000?? Spend $2000 on a Savage get $10,000 towards a car? Buy a house and retire? I really really want to know how I can spend myself rich? Funny how I have never seen another country make that work... Though I hear they keep trying... By the way he got everything else wrong too: No, I don't care how my kids will pay for college.. I want to know how they will earn a living No, i dont' worry about my healthcare being secure... I don't give a darn about anything being secure except from the government... I worry about paying for the excesses of government!!! NO, I sure as hell don't want the government to insure my home is secure... what the hell is all this worry about my security??? All I want them to do is only spend what they tax... and not poke their nose any further than needed on anything |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by oldNslow on 07/28/13 at 19:05:59 Quote:
You can't. But that's not the point. The proponents of these economic policies can, and are. You're not supposed to get rich. They are. And when everything goes to hell do you think Jack Lew will suffer? |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by Dane Allen on 07/28/13 at 22:28:12 He's a U.S. Treasury Secretary, and a liberal, you can't expect him to know anythying about finance!!! They should be asking him about Joy Behar's sex change 50 years ago and where to buy great blow. |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by Serowbot on 07/28/13 at 22:31:06 Stop crying... ... and, in a way, yes... If you can borrow money at less than your prime interest rate,.. you can make money... Especially if you have foolishly, put off doing necessary things, like fixin' yer' roof (infrastructure) and the opportunity is there to borrow, at less than you can get in interest on your money,... than it is a wise investment... This is money that must be spent... on things that must be done... You can do it now, cheaper than later... Credit card companies are currently offering to carry the balance of your old credit card for 0% if you switch the balance to theirs... This is a losing proposition... businesses do this... They are betting that you can't resist adding to it... You can make money at this... Buy the new roof you need, and put it on your credit card,.. take the offer of 0%... then pay it off... just keep your money in the bank,... and pay the minimum... Inflation happens... they take the hit... This is not a direct analogy,.. but, money that must be spent, must be spent... Spending now, saves the cost of inflation... and rates are low now... Get your house in order... prices will only go up... When credit is lower than inflation,... it is a debt economy... You can go with it, and make money, or watch it happen and cry... I have a credit card that is payed off completely (automatically by my bank) on the last day it is due, every month... meanwhile my money makes interest in my savings... The more I use that card, the more I save... ...(as long as I don't spend foolishly)... I make money, by spending on credit... With my budget,... that's only a small amount,... but on a national scale it is billions... Going to war, on false pretense, and giving out no_bid contracts to your VP's company, and excluding this from your budget... wasn't good economics... not for the country anyway... ... but these things must be paid for... you must pay for your mistakes... ... and all the necessary things you put off to be stupid must be paid for too... You can do it now,.. when money is cheap... or put it off and hope for a miracle... Pass it on to your children... Sometimes spending now,.. is saving for the future... |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by WebsterMark on 07/29/13 at 05:30:00 Pine, was this Lew's way of piggy-backing on Cheney's statement of a few years ago that we can't conserve our way to energy independence? If so, Lew's either a complete idiot (which he's not)or is using political speak to fool the masses. Cheney's statement was correct, a nation the size of ours who needs energy to grow cannot save enough, we must produce. However, government spending is different. We can cut our way to prosperity. Cutting spending lowers taxes which allows individuals to recirculate that money in whatever manner that suits the, individually. The "Invisible Hand" theory which is how the US grew to what we are today. Give people back their money and get out of the way. |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by oldNslow on 07/29/13 at 05:48:54 Serobot wrote: Quote:
Sure. But you borrow that money with the intention of paying back the loan with money that you actually earn. Our government has no intention of doing that. They simply print more, which makes your money worth less, or borrow more, to pay whats due right now. That strategy wouldn't work for you or me, we can't print dollars;and there is a limit to how much we can borrow without paying it back;eventually our credit scores go in the crapper and the spigot gets shut off. And it isn't going to work forever for any government either. Take a look at Spain, Greece etc. But Lew and his cronies don't care. They'll be just fine. They know perfectly well what they are doing and what the consequences are going to be. |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by srinath on 07/29/13 at 08:10:53 Pine - you are not the federal gubbamint. You spend more than you take in, you go broke ... The federal govt has the ability to print $$$ ... They decide we need this road from here to there, and that will help the citizens of these places, the ycan simply build that road and print the $$ for that ... You then get to drive on the aforementioned road, get to work in 20 mins instead of 40 and get your added time the way you want ... You can cut your way to prosperity, in fact you have to in a lot of cases, but you too can spend your way to prosperity, say you want to be an expert savage mechanic, you buy a few dead savages but a few 100's in tools and work day and night ... then you charge me 100/hr to fix my savage. There, you've spent the $ got your self a skill and make $$$ on that skill. I do the same with audio, motorcycles etc etc. The feds, dont have to, the govt is there to serve the people, and they dont do that neccesarily by serving the people and sending you the bill right on the spot. Since everything in the country is in 1 or anothe rstate, the best thing you can get washington to do is, to spend evenly across the country ... not like now where NJ spends the $$$ for SC to collect welfare. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/13 at 12:06:48 & You, S, fail to grasp the LAWS of economics.. Just because its a nation doesnt mean the laws of gravity are cancelled,, or economics. |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by srinath on 07/29/13 at 12:16:01 746B6D6A7770417141796B672C1E0 wrote:
You fail to grasp the difference between a person and a country. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/13 at 12:44:40 Really? Ill bet good $$$ Im WAY more educated in the realm of economics than you are. You go ahead & pretend nations cant go broke, while we have news on Greece.. How about Big Cities? They canm go broke, cant they? Your vision is what needs cleared up. Mine is quite clear,, I have a real good grasp of whats happening. Your eyes see what theyve been told to see. You SAY youre not a democrat, but everything you say IS from their talking points except your ideas on guns. You are a little more conservative inb that area, but you are not a conservative, at all.,not in the the overall ideology you present, |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by Dane Allen on 07/29/13 at 13:08:13 5B444245585F6E5E6E56444803310 wrote:
Yeah, not much to add here except the fall of Rome and the dark ages. |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by Pine on 07/29/13 at 14:59:58 5B5A4146495C40280 wrote:
Sri thanks for the post.. Well a few points: First the exceedingly lame TV host failed to follow up on this statement... so that could be the direction he was heading ( investment). Second, your example is investment, which I am all for... but by in large government of the past 20 years has NOT been about investment, nor are investment costs a major contributor to the deficit. And given the overall position from the TV show, he was talking more about spending just to spend as a driver of the economy. The money often is NOT spent on investment... its just spent..(example would be the "big deal" about the unemployment dip a few months ago... the cause... the federal government hired a bunch of folks to do the census for a few weeks) Third, with regard to printing of money. That function DOES hurt all middle class (actually everyone... but the middle class feel it the most). Money in and of itself is NOT wealth, even the government recognizes that function but are more and more willing to use it anyway. A citizens equivalent is to go out and rob as many people as he can. As for getting the fed to even out their spending... I would be happy ... if they just STOPPED a bunch of it... I really don't want to be the state that made money on seeing if fish can get drunk (actual grant) or the bridge to nowhere. Being the poorest state in the nation is bad enough. :P |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/13 at 15:16:57 Every dollar created creates a debt. Learn how the fed works, then talk, |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by Midnightrider on 07/29/13 at 17:47:20 The Federal Reserve is printing 85 billion dollars a month ,Its their so called way of saving the economy but all is doing is weakening the dollar |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by srinath on 07/30/13 at 08:08:50 7E6167607D7A4B7B4B73616D26140 wrote:
No it does not. If it is a bond, then the idea is to borrow, that does create a dollar of debt. Printing dollars does not "create debt" 1F3B363C3B353A26203B363720520 wrote:
Correct. And it hurts those on fixed income and those with dollar denominated savings. However the reason they are doing it to to cause inflation, and keep deflation away. Deflation is death, of course it is not death to those that have savings or fixed income, but for the rest of us, it is. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/30/13 at 09:55:44 Im not arguing with ignorance, I KNOW what Im talking about,, NOT ONE Dollar is created that doesnt come with a burden of debt, |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by Pine on 07/30/13 at 10:33:19 5A454344595E6F5F6F57454902300 wrote:
Actually I think that technically JoG is correct, that's simply how the system was set up. The Fed orders that Treasury print money, the money is a debt back to treasury. (something like that) Its the same with a check.. a check is not money its a debt ( yet a check "ADDS" to the money supply!). Sri I am still in disagreement (polite) with your assessment of deflation versus inflation. Neither is more harsh than the other. Both are equally bad as both are different sides of the same coin, so to speak. I find it odd that you would state that inflation is bad for savers and those on fixed income but (not for the rest of us)... I seem to fit in the savers and fixed income folks then. I suspect "the rest of us" is a very particular group... say those federal dole? Regardless, the US is currently impossibly far away from deflation. It could not happen now... no matter what. Inflation on the other hand, is just a matter of time away. It IS going to happen, it must happen.. and the ONLY thing that could stop it would be a complete melt down of currency (at which point, inflation/deflation is moot). The FED is even admitting inflation is coming. ITs just a matter of controlled inflation versus un-checked inflation. Thus the Fed talking about raising the PRIME rate. Now the truth is that inflation is already here and has been, but due to reporting "trickery" its just under reported. What gets argued is how to report inflation. If inflation is "rising prices" then inflation is currently low... if inflation is increasing money supply versus productivity... then inflation is obscenely high. At some point those two MUST equalize. |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by srinath on 07/30/13 at 12:58:34 6A53545F4E55483A0 wrote:
Actually I think that technically JoG is correct, that's simply how the system was set up. The Fed orders that Treasury print money, the money is a debt back to treasury. (something like that) Its the same with a check.. a check is not money its a debt ( yet a check "ADDS" to the money supply!). Sri I am still in disagreement (polite) with your assessment of deflation versus inflation. Neither is more harsh than the other. Both are equally bad as both are different sides of the same coin, so to speak. I find it odd that you would state that inflation is bad for savers and those on fixed income but (not for the rest of us)... I seem to fit in the savers and fixed income folks then. I suspect "the rest of us" is a very particular group... say those federal dole? Regardless, the US is currently impossibly far away from deflation. It could not happen now... no matter what. Inflation on the other hand, is just a matter of time away. It IS going to happen, it must happen.. and the ONLY thing that could stop it would be a complete melt down of currency (at which point, inflation/deflation is moot). The FED is even admitting inflation is coming. ITs just a matter of controlled inflation versus un-checked inflation. Thus the Fed talking about raising the PRIME rate. Now the truth is that inflation is already here and has been, but due to reporting "trickery" its just under reported. What gets argued is how to report inflation. If inflation is "rising prices" then inflation is currently low... if inflation is increasing money supply versus productivity... then inflation is obscenely high. At some point those two MUST equalize. [/quote] That is how the feds have been doing it of late. Not how the system is setup. And those on dole are fixed in come ... They get bitten by it. It affects those of us able to negotiate our wage (as in the ability to quit and get a higher paying job) a lot less. I was @ a job last year that I agreed to do for some amount. The recruiter said there was someone doing that job for 18 months for 3/4th of what they were agreeing to pay me. I quit a couple months later for a permanent job paying 15% more and better benifits. The replacement for me they were offering 12% more than I was making. That = inflation. It usually helps people who have their arms free to negotiate their wages. Dole is not. Fed is saying inflation is likely ... they however were afraid of deflation over the last few years. Deflation is far more damaging than inflation. Of the order of 10 X ... Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/30/13 at 15:30:05 It is impossible to create One Dollar & NOT have to pay the Fede back That dollar + interest. Its How the system works. Either read & learn or stop pretending you know., |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by Paraquat on 07/31/13 at 06:01:03 There is no 11th dollar. --Steve |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by srinath on 07/31/13 at 06:51:51 332C2A2D30370636063E2C206B590 wrote:
Your ongoing comparisons to greece prove your ignorance. You can stfu about economics ... and try this one for a change ... when was the last time Greece printed 1 bill of the currnecy it uses ? Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/31/13 at 07:55:29 The euro is just as poorly done as our dollar. the socio-economic upheavals they are seeing are the result of policies that create $$$ from nothing, just like our central bank, The fact that more than one natiuon shares the currency doent un-do that. That youre wrong, again, & disagree with me, again, only comforts me, because when you say Im wrong, I feel better, because your understanding of economics is so poor. I mention Greece because their policies have created unrest. OUrs are on the way there. America is in TRouble,, BIG trouble.. Are we gonna see a slow slide or a crash? Thats the only real question. The answer depends on so many variables & so many people ( nations) have Dollars they dont want to see evaporate that theyll work to prop it up, Then theres the REAL power structure, wealthy beyond measure, beyond the wealth of nations, the Rothschild & friends conglomerate. Its hard to say whats coming & when, but, THIS I will say We will not see an economic recovery. OUr unemployment rates will not go back to pre 2008 levels. OUr manufacturing/exports will continue to shrink, debt will rise, how fast? Who knows, but I see no policy change that would change these things. IN order to print a dollar, WE, America, ASK for it to be printed by The Federal REserve. They print up a T-Bill & sell it. It has a maturation date & will Pay the Purchaser a profit. Someone has to pay that difference,, NOw, who do you think is on the hook for that? Not ONE dollar is created that doesnt cost the People that dollar + INterest. YOU cant go to the bank & get $$$ w/o paying more than that amount back. America sold its sovereign right to create its own money in 1913. Libya, Iraq? THEY were not using that system. THEY were sovereign. They were rocking the boat. They were gonna stop using the Dollar for oil sales. THEY were a threat to the power structure. Look at what life was like in Libya. 1951, Libya was THE Poorest nation in Africa. LIbya was the Crown Jewel of Africa before His People rose up against him,, COFF COFF. Who watched that video? His people LOVED him, If nothing else, go to 50 minutes in & watch 8 minutes. OR, believe CNN, or Fox, or whichever Owned & Operated by TPTB bunch of liars. |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by srinath on 07/31/13 at 08:31:38 746B6D6A7770417141796B672C1E0 wrote:
Once again for what I think is the 1000th time I am posting this ... This is the way to print a T-Bill ... And you do know that you could buy that T-Bill right ? And you probably already own some, its in a lot of retirement and other funds. Not dollar bills ... Treasury bills. This has been a way to raise capital of late, cos they pay nothing in interest and have been suckering in people with "how safe it is" and how it will "never break the buck" ... shame on you if you fall for that joke. Currency - us $$$$ bills/coins etc - not printed this way ... Currency is printed by the Department of the treasury. http://www.moneyfactory.gov/uscurrency/annualproductionfigures.html Here are some more fun facts for you ... How much money is printed each day? The Bureau of Engraving and Printing produces 38 million notes a day with a face value of approximately $541 million. That doesn't mean there is $541 million more money circulating today than there was yesterday, though, because 95% of the notes printed each year are used to replace notes already in circulation. We have been printing T-Bills - aka Fed has been. However that is only because now when inflation is running 4-5%, they are paying under 2% ... and selling that sheiete to foreigners cos its "safe". If them foreigners asks for their $$ back, we will tell the treasury to send them that $$ in super huge denominations. You are wrong about all the rest in your specific understanding as well, I just decided to pick and prove this 1 point. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by srinath on 07/31/13 at 08:38:52 302F292E33340535053D2F23685A0 wrote:
Yea, Greece's policy of austerity has created Unrest ... austerity ... aka what the small governemtn TEA baggers want ... not what we have now, and not what Obama will do if the TEA baggers aren't choking him @ every turn. TEA baggers want us to be the next greece and will do anything to create that. Obama does not and will stop them if he could. Word for word, everything in your post is bass ackwards. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by Dane Allen on 07/31/13 at 11:11:46 What does it say at the very top of the dollar bill? It says "Federal Reserve Note." What is the definition of the word "note?" Note: "A written promise to pay a debt." Just thought I'd throw that little tidbit into the conversation. |
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Title: Re: ...and this is where I just weep for my countr Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/31/13 at 22:57:03 Treasury is not allowed to print a dollar unless a T bill or some other instrument has been sold., IM DONE, YOURE Ignorant of the FACTS, Not One Dollar can be created that does NOT create a debt, Period. Ive spent lots of time on this. Im not guessing, Im not using what Ive been told by people I like. Ive read how it works, Ive watched videos, I KNOW what Imm talking about, |
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