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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Alcohol? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1374504998 Message started by Boogieman on 07/22/13 at 07:56:38 |
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Title: Alcohol? Post by Boogieman on 07/22/13 at 07:56:38 Is there any way to make my savage run off alcohol? It would probably have to be rubbing alcohol or something, definitely not the drinking kind. It's just that,, well,, I hate gasoline. It's not the price of it, its just dirty. |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by Dave on 07/22/13 at 08:18:03 It is possible.....but probably not practical. Here is some good reading on the subject. http://www.turbofast.com.au/racefuel2.html |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by Serowbot on 07/22/13 at 08:54:40 You must really hate dirt... ;D... I think alcohol would cost a fortune... Diesel would be even dirtier... ... I'd check into natural gas... ...or,.. just make sure your bike is tuned good... The first year I owned my Savage, it had to be emission tested... and it's emission reading was so low, they had to sock the entire muffler to get any reading at all... This was probably due to them messing around, making me idle for 10+ minutes until the engine was getting hot... Tuned well, it can run very clean... Don't try to make your idle real low, or make the bike run lean... that will increase emissions... Keep the idle up at around 1100rpm,.. and tune the jetting for maximum performance... Maximum performance = most efficient fuel burning, and least emissions.... In good tune,.. your bike should average about 60mpg... |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by Boogieman on 07/22/13 at 09:01:47 Hmmm..... This is not turning out to be a fantastic idea. My bike is tuned well now and I put 91 in it, It's just that rubbing alcohol is super clean burning. I'll have to read a little bit more on the link that Dave gave me, But it sounds like "alcohol fuels", Which apparently contains some really nasty stuff, Are used and its not just straight alcohol. I wonder about hydrogen... actually what would be the difference between putting in 91 or 89 as opposed to 110. There was a 76 down the street from where I used to live that you could buy 110. It was definitely more expensive. but why? |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by Trippah on 07/22/13 at 09:11:05 An explosive idea??I don't know but perhaps the higher the alcohol percent the more inflammable it might get..of course if you never get into an accident?? :D |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by Dave on 07/22/13 at 09:17:27 There is no need to run a higher octane in the engine, and it will not run any cleaner on gasoline with higher than 87 octane. The higer octane gasoline is needed in higher compression engines to control engine knock..also known as pre-ignition or detonation. The Savage engine is only 8.5:1 and runs fine on 87 octane. The higher cost for premium fuels is based on them being more costly to refine.....and the smaller demand. If you feel guilty about riding around on a primitive bike without pollution controls......put a Dyna Muffler on it that has the Catalytic converter built into the front of the muffler. That doesn't seem to hurt the performance and it might clean up the emmissions a bit. |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by Boogieman on 07/22/13 at 10:10:56 Huh.. no I'm not concerned about pollution. The idea of running a different fuel appeals to me for some reason, however at the moment it sounds like more trouble than it's worth. Thanks for the enlightening conversation brothers. |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by Charon on 07/22/13 at 10:16:42 To run on alcohol about all you have to do is change carburetor jetting, going up however much is required to change the mixture from the nominal 12:1 or so for gasoline (theoretically it should be 14.7:1) to about 8:1 for ethanol. But other corrections have to be made to take into account the corrosive effects of alcohols. Alcohols and the water they absorb from the atmosphere can cause corrosion in the steel tank and the alloy/brass carburetor. They can also dissolve plastic and rubber parts such as fuel lines and plastic carburetor floats. Methanol use is quite common in racing venues, and it is well understood. I haven't looked lately, but I think Formula 1 and Indycars both run on it. A dead giveaway is the water they spray on the fuel filler area as the cars pull out of the pits to wash away and dilute any spilled fuel. Do not forget that alcohol production has its own pollution problems and energy use. |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by Dave on 07/22/13 at 11:01:59 3A37373F313D353936580 wrote:
When you said that gasoline ran "dirty".....I thought you meant the engine emissions. All the gubbermint EPA folks are pushing ethanol on us with a claim that it burns cleaner...and that is what I thought you were trying to do in avoiding the dirty gasoline. The cheapest most affordable way to get ethanol would be to use E85, which is only suitable for "FLEX FUEL" vehicles. |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by verslagen1 on 07/22/13 at 11:25:54 Without a clue on the economics... Propane said to be clean burning and prolongs engine life. quite a few cars run it already so may be more available. |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by Boogieman on 07/22/13 at 12:11:13 Oh wow serobot, I don't get anywhere near 60 miles to the gallon. I haven't tried to figure it out yet and I probably should but definitely not that many miles to the gallon ,, maybe half that. Charon: Yeah see I figured it might have something to do with eating away at rubber and Some other stuff inside the carb and whatnot. However it doesn't sound like too many changes need to be made when u put it like that. Dave: Yeah I wasn't really talking about emissions so much, I just don't like gasoline, it's filthy and oily and nasty. What is E85 exactly, And where would I get and how much does it cost? Vercy: Yeah I've heard of people running propane and that you get better gas mileage, but it's been explain to me that its only for long freeway trips. I heard its totally guttless, no power at all. So like Lancer and all them high performance dudes run 87? |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by apache snow on 07/22/13 at 12:20:17 Energy in a gallon of alcohol is only two-thirds of that contained in a gallon of gasoline. Not something I would do. Diesel fuel is oily. In comparison unleaded gas is anything but. |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by Dave on 07/22/13 at 12:33:36 Dave: Yeah I wasn't really talking about emissions so much, I just don't like gasoline, it's filthy and oily and nasty. What is E85 exactly, And where would I get and how much does it cost? E85 is available at some gas stations.....and it can only be run in Flex Fuel vehicles that are designed to run it. Not sure of the cost.....but it gets signficantly less mileage per gallon than gasoline does. Our Savage is only approved to run the currently used E10 which is pump gas and has a maxiumum of 10% ethanol....you cannot use E15 or E85 in the Savage. So like Lancer and all them high performance dudes run 87? I am one of those High Performance dudes.....I have a Wiseco piston that has raised the compression from the stock 8.5/1 to 10/1, a cam, a wilder cam, a different carb, head work, free flowing exhaust and air filter. I run premium fuel because of my higher compression ratio - there is not need to do that with the stock piston and compression ratio. My bike gets 54 - 58 mpg even with all the performance changes. |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by Boogieman on 07/22/13 at 14:58:43 Apache: That's interesting, I didn't know that gasoline has a greater energy value then alcohol does,, I thought it was the other way around. I used to be a truck driver and yes, diesel is nasty! Hate that stuff. Dave: Oh you're one of them high performance dudes eh? Awesome! You're going to be my "go to" man from now on. Getting this bike with the best thing I've ever done. Tell me, what kind of head work are we talking about? And what constitutes a free-flowing exhaust and air filter? |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by apache snow on 07/22/13 at 15:10:40 http://zfacts.com/p/436.html |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by Boogieman on 07/22/13 at 15:30:10 Thnx apache,, That is a detailed explanation. I had no idea thats what was going on. Whats MTBE? |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by Dave on 07/22/13 at 15:33:53 6A67676F616D656966080 wrote:
You need to do a little looking and reading on your own, and save us for those things that can't be found on Google! Google MTBE.....and you will have your answer in seconds. |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by Boogieman on 07/22/13 at 16:01:38 Darn,, ur right, sorry bout that. God may have gifted me with an excess of artistic talent but left me fundamentally retarded. |
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Title: Re: Alcohol? Post by Charon on 07/22/13 at 17:29:02 On a volume basis - per gallon - propane has about 10% less energy than gasoline. The Air Force played with it in the late 70's during one or another of the fuel crunches. Measured in miles per gallon propane comes up about 10% short. And it requires pressure tanks where gasoline is liquid at ordinary temperatures. E-85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. Consumer Reports had a couple of articles on it a while back, and you can look them up for your information. Ethanol is the same stuff as drinkin' alcohol. In order to avoid paying high Federal alcohol taxes it has to be denatured, or made undrinkable. For use as fuel, it is usually denatured with about 10% unleaded gasoline, which can be separated from the ethanol only with great difficulty. This 90% ethanol/10% gasoline is then added to gasoline to produce E-10 fuel. As long as a gaseous mixture of fuel and air, in the proper proportions, can be delivered the internal combustion engine doesn't care much what it burns. There may be problems with knocking, but anything from hydrogen to motor oil will run an engine. Heavier oils will require heated intakes to vaporize, but old-timers may remember tractors which started on gasoline and were switched to kerosene or "tractor fuel" once warmed up. Alcohols are just another fuel. Dave remarked that E-85 can only be used in Flex-Fuel vehicles. This is true, if the vehicle also has to burn "pure gas" or E-10. Those vehicles supposedly have fuel systems that can handle the alcohol and computers "smart" enough to adjust the mixture as needed for anything from no ethanol at all to 85% ethanol. But if you wanted to use E-85 as the only fuel a reasonably simple carburetor rejet would do the trick. Many light airplanes have carburetors with a mixture adjust control. This is because as airplanes climb the surrounding air becomes less dense and the mixture becomes richer. The mixture adjust allows the pilot to adjust the mixture as needed. It might be possible to adapt such a carburetor for a motorcycle, perhaps marking the mixture control for E-85, E-15, E-10, or no ethanol. Just think - another control to play with while you ride. |
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