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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> What will Detroit be like in 5 years? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1374416092 Message started by WebsterMark on 07/21/13 at 07:14:52 |
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Title: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WebsterMark on 07/21/13 at 07:14:52 Is there any possible outcome for Detroit that isn't a disaster? Government clearly cannot pay their way out of this. Business's returning is the only way out but with a workforce that's uneducated and addicted to government handouts, how in the world can enough business's start up to the level needed to initiate a recover? I can't think of a situation in the US like this ever before. We are literally going to "lose" a major US city. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/21/13 at 08:55:54 thats just the beginning,, |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Midnightrider on 07/21/13 at 10:09:30 While we keep sending billions overseas. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/21/13 at 10:44:09 Innit odd how the People , just poor, dumb taxpayers, not ivy league school educated, yacht owning, multimillionaires like the slime that oozes up & down the halls of congress,, innit just odd that we can see how this is going, but we keep getting told our economy is improvioing .. there IS no inflation, unemployment is better,, lie after lie,,&, depending on which party is talking, some will believe, others will call it lies, change the party doin the talkin 7 ya chaNGE a certain %age of who believes & who calls it lies. amazing,, thankfully, I dont care about the source, I only actually trust one man in The Game & thats Ron Paul. If he says it, Im usually willing to believe it w/o any digging. If someone says something, be it R or D, if I dont kinda believe its true already, Im not too liable to believe it, |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Midnightrider on 07/21/13 at 12:10:00 Jog I agree with you about Ron Paul. I know his son is not his father but if he runs I will vote for him. All the Pubs run last time were complete idiots and Rand is no idiot. I definitely don't want Hillary running the country. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/21/13 at 12:26:25 nor do i,, given the hillary vs. rand option, id be forced to vote rand, tho i dont trust him. she. otoh, i DO trust. i trust her to do exactly as the globalists who would put her in office want. rand, IF he is allowed to be the selected/appointed "president" ( puppet) he will first have to "kiss the ring" & demonstrate that HE can deliver the goals of the globalists better than she can. the people we are allowed to choose from dont want for america what We the People want. Kennedy THOT he was the President & was doing things he thot would benefit We the People, as did Reagan,, pre-bullet & post bullet decisions that came outta his office? I havent been able to lay hands on anything that would satisfy my question,, but, if i could id like to see what he said & what policy decisions he supported before & after, to see if he changed in his approach to leading the nation after he was shot.,. The attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan occurred on Monday, March 30, 1981, just 69 days into his presidency. but,, theres really not much time to look at before he was shot, to get a real good idea just what he was trying to do. ill always believe the bush family had a hand in it,, |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Midnightrider on 07/21/13 at 20:31:55 Warning to all police, firefighters, schoolteachers: Most government pensions to be confiscated within a decade Inbox x to http://www.naturalnews.com/041298_unfunded_liabilities_retiree_pensions_government_confiscation.html (NaturalNews) Last week, Detroit declared bankruptcy, becoming the largest city in U.S. history to take such drastic action in the face of financial insolvency. A declaration of bankruptcy isn't what most people think it is, though: it's not just a statement of "we're broke!" It's actually a way for the city to clear its slate of all financial obligations and not pay the retirees it owes. What are the largest financial obligations the city facing? Pensions. $3.5 billion worth of pensions, to be exact. Yes, Detroit owes former government employees -- teachers, firefighters, cops and more -- a whopping $3.5 billion in current and future payments. Except Detroit doesn't have $3.5 billion to pay the pensions. The city is in a state of economic collapse. Remember, the U.S. government used billions in taxpayer money to help General Motors move its manufacturing offshore to countries like China. As a result of economically-insane actions and criminal mismanagement, a city that used to be the hub of industrial output in America has become a ghost town of abandoned buildings, crumbling infrastructure and financial destitution. But even as all this was becoming apparent, the government workers there continued to collect fat paychecks and pensions, all based on the promise that endless population growth would out-pace the rise in pension obligations. Many pensioners are owed over $100,000 a year from the government, and this is true across California, Illinois and many other states as well. Chicago, for example, owes $19 billion in pension payments that it doesn't have, and the city of Los Angeles is more than $30 billion in the hole. The story is much the same in every major U.S. city. As the Detroit Free Press now reports: Early this year, the Pew Center released a survey showing that 61 of the nation's largest cities -- limiting the survey to the largest city in each state and all other cities with more than 500,000 people -- had a gap of more than $217 billion in unfunded pension and health care liabilities. While cities had long promised health care, life insurance and other benefits to retirees, "few ... started saving to cover the long-term costs," the report sai |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Starlifter on 07/21/13 at 21:30:32 "The attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan occurred on Monday, March 30, 1981, just 69 days into his presidency". but,, there's really not much time to look at before he was shot, to get a real good idea just what he was trying to do. ill always believe the bush family had a hand in it",, You are correct. The Bush crime family were also deeply involved in the Kennedy assassination (as in CIA) as papa Bush a CIA operative, was documented to have been in Dallas the day Kennedy was shot...yet he denies he was there, and unfortunately he cannot remember where he was on that day as there is no documentation of him being anywhere else. Preston Bush (long ago) had many illegal money making dealings with the Nazi's during WW !!. The Bush crime family was also directly responsible for 9/11, the fake war with Iraq, and scores of other illegal acts of treason which hurt the USA and it's people. All in the name of MONEY. Unfortunately Rand Paul is no Ron Paul....He's in it for the money too....don't trust him. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Starlifter on 07/21/13 at 22:13:25 "Is there any possible outcome for Detroit that isn't a disaster"?WM 130 miles south of me is Detroit USA...Motown. The motor city, the automotive capitol of the world, the only city in America where you go directly south into Canada... And it's not what you think it is. It's a great city USA. ************************************************************************ By Mitch Albom Detroit Free Press Columnist Dear America, Yeah, we’re broke. But we got up this morning. Yeah, we’re broke. But we woke the kids. We went to church. Yeah, we’re broke. But we ate breakfast. We cleaned the plates. We called friends. We lit the grill. Yeah, we’re broke. But we carry on. Yeah, we’re broke. But we saw it coming. We’ve had an outsider (a Republican stooge from the Gov's office) in charge for the last four months. His background is bankruptcy. The first word of his job title is “emergency.” Yeah, we’re broke; we’re not naïve. We know it. We expected it. We watched for years as our leaders mismanaged funds, made patchwork repairs, borrowed and borrowed and didn’t pay back. Does that sound familiar? Hasn’t our federal government done the same? Yeah, we’re broke. But we’re not the first — or the last. Yeah, we’re broke. It was the perfect storm. We’re built for 2 million. We’re down to 700,000 people. We’re too big for our numbers. We’re too small for our britches. Yeah, we’re broke. Our city grew on automotive explosiveness and shrunk on economic implosion. Manufacturing died or was sent away. Jobs dried up. So did tax revenue. Our pension funds teetered; when the big recession hit, they fell over. Other cities suffered similar fates. We just took it harder. Yeah, we’re broke. But we’re not some national joke. We didn’t “have it coming.” What happened to us nearly happened to New York City — the great New York City — 38 years ago. Our No. 1 ranking on Forbes’ “Most Miserable Cities” list might sting, but Chicago is listed as No. 4 and Modesto, Calif. — home of “American Graffiti” — was No. 5, which means misery is equally scattered across this nation. Yeah, we’re broke. But we’re uniquely built to handle it. We don’t give up. We don’t start crying. Some had us buried when the auto industry nearly sank four years ago. It’s still here. So are we. Yeah, we’re broke. But there’s a lot of people out there filing Chapter 11, Chapter 7, Chapter 13, a lot of people having their houses yanked away, their life savings depleted, their companies shuttered. Yeah, we’re broke. How’s your city doing? Or your bank account? Yeah, we’re broke. But it’s not who we are. It’s not our first name. We’ve been “Burning Detroit” and “Rust Belt Detroit" "and snow belt Detroit” and “Unemployed Detroit” and “Abandoned Detroit” and “Racially Divided Detroit.” We’re not any of those. We’re not “Bankrupt Detroit,” either. What we are is a city of dogged citizens, all races, all ages, who still work, pay our bills and take care of our responsibilities — even if our leaders don’t do the same. What we are is a city whose kids want to stay here and live downtown, whose business folks refurbish office buildings and build new stadiums, whose volunteers board up rotting houses and beautify decaying neighborhoods, because beneath the bad news, we still believe in green shoots of a good future. What we are is a city of Americans who trusted Americans would buy American cars, trusted our elected officials would look out for us, trusted the U.S. economy could withstand anything. If we were guilty of anything, it’s putting our trust in the wrong places. Which — in this housing crisis, government secrets, Wall Street-wins era — makes us pretty typical, doesn’t it? Yeah, we’re broke. But we’re no different than you. Just maybe geographically unluckier. Cities rely on many things: industry, taxes, labor forces, local leadership. Those things may have collapsed under the weight of decades here, but we, the citizens of Detroit, have not. We still get up, go to work, kiss the kids, believe tomorrow could be better. We still call this place home. Proudly. Yeah, we’re broke. But we’re not broken. And if you know anything about us, you know this: We’re not going anywhere |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/13 at 05:13:56 Clever writers can spin all the Eminim type commercials (imported from Detroit...that was a great marketing phrase) they want but Detroit is gone and it ain't coming back, not in our lifetimes anyway. Unions killed it and their leadership walked away with millions, worthless school administrators have massive pensions protected by judges fawning over Obama. I think it deserves to die. I hope the real reasons are on full display for all to see. Again, maybe this is another shot across the bow and we'll pull back from obamacare. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Paraquat on 07/22/13 at 06:15:06 Detroit is viable property for the privately run prison with the guaranteed capacity we've been hearing so much about. Anyone watch Boondocks? Or ever watch The Shield? --Steve |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/13 at 07:02:47 maybe the better question Paraquat is do you remember the movie Escape from New York. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by srinath on 07/22/13 at 07:39:32 754740515647506F435049220 wrote:
That movie was a classic ... no way Detroit ever gonna turn that cool ... Now Escape from LA is more like it ... BTW large swaths of detroit needs to be levelled and planted with forest. Its a city with the population of charlotte, that will fit manhattan, boston and San francisco. Leave it as 3-4-5 burgs and a center and raze the rest and turn to a forest. Run trains across from the 4-5 spokes to the center and forget about it. Have a loop connecting all of those and it can be 5-6 small towns in a circle round "detroit". Detroit was a worthless city in the mid 90's when it was supposedly in its hey day. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/13 at 08:05:06 They filmed parts of that movie in St. Louis. The scene where the president's plane crashes was next door to where I worked. They needed a really dirty and dilapidated building so they came to ours! The final bridge scene was shot on a famous bridge in St. Louis called the Chain of Rocks Bridge. There was a famous murder on the bridge. Two white girls were raped and thrown off the bridge. I don't recall Jessie Jackson showing up on that one. I also agree with you regarding Detroit. Bulldoze it and plant trees. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Paraquat on 07/22/13 at 09:24:11 My immediate prediction is more anarchy than civilized prisoners. Anyway, there was an episode of Boondocks and the main idea of one of the season's of The Shield where people in power tried to drive surrounding property values down to purchase the land cheap with the idea of rejuvenating the area afterwards. Buy cheap = win. Rejuvenate the town and look like a hero = win Make money = win. Not saying this is the case. I think Detroit was already too much of a nuts show. But it's going to be interesting to see how it pans out. Especially if someone gets "government grant money" to buy land in Detroit under what will eventually be realized as false pretenses. --Steve |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/22/13 at 09:31:29 5D6F68797E6F78476B78610A0 wrote:
They needed a really dirty and dilapidated building so they came to ours! Wow,, thats an emotionally confusing thing,, Yee HAA! Theyre filming HERE! Okay,, thats cool, They needed a really dirty and dilapidated building.. OOOokay,, well,, uhh,, I work in a really shabby place,, not near AS cool,, What kinda work was being done there? |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by srinath on 07/22/13 at 10:04:10 7647544757534752260 wrote:
The govt should relocate people from one run down hood to another run down hood of equal and similar size/value. Then when they ahve concentrated the population in a good 5-6 little town type thing ... they let each one go on its own, connect them all to the center via train, connect em in a circle via a road and raze the entire rest and plant a mix of trees and parks near each town. Yea will never happen, Too many NIMBY's will quote Ayn Rand and sit there and scream, and they will run a city the size of 5 cities with a population of 1/5th of any of em ... Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/13 at 10:43:27 What kinda work was being done there? if you had your picture taken at a Sears or K-Mart back in the late 70's early 80's, chances are they were developed at CPI on Washington Ave downtown St. Louis. I worked 2nd shift in the dark room. the negatives were on long 500' rolls like giant paper towel rolls. We installed the rolls in the dark on one side of the developing machine. The rolls wound through the rollers into the fluid and came out developed on the other side. The trick was 'cutting' in just before one roll ended. You had to feel the roll in the dark and when there was perhaps 20' left, you unrolled that, cut in the new roll with masking tape and rolled it back up before it got pulled in. if you missed it, you'd have to wait for the end to come out and then re-rack a plastic sheet through the rollers and start over. It was actually a really cool job for a kid to have. The best part is I was riding a Yamaha XS400 Special at the time. I use to use a timer on my watch and 'race' myself home every night to see if I could beat my record time. I've had two near misses on a street bike and one of these was while I was racing home. Hit a curb on a long left hand sweeper because I was pushing to fast. somehow, I bounced over the curb, missed a pole, landed on sidewalk, jumped back into the street without missing a beat. Sh*t my pants probably..... |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by srinath on 07/22/13 at 11:06:00 Nice bike webby ... xs400. You raced it to work and back everyday ... ;D I've got an xs650 ... in pieces ... need to turn it into a cafe, projects projects projects. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/13 at 12:59:28 Nope, just raced home at night when the traffic wasn't a problem. Rode it 200 miles one way to college all the time. A few times, I left after last afternoon class, rode 3 1/2 hours home for dinner, turned around and rode back that night. No fairing and open faced helmet with sunglasses. I didn't know any better. Hell, people rode from Missouri to California and back on bikes that today that because of their CC's, we call suitable for only urban riding. Not sure how many miles I put on it, but like Rooster on Little Blackie in True Grit, I rode that horse until it died.... |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by srinath on 07/22/13 at 13:16:17 Detroit may be a good place to make the new 200 mpg motorcycle. Smallish - 3-400 cc single/twin bristling with technology ... FI, TCS, belt dr, abs, heated riding suit ready easy and cheap to maintain, easy to ride. Should be factory service warrantee covered for 30-40K miles and 5-6 years so a new rider has time to learn and get used to it ... Bikes are easier on everything ... cheaper and easier @ every stage in its life cycle ... you can park 10 in the space of a car, it tears up the roads 1/100th as much as a car ... you can make 30 bikes melting down an old buick, and it can be 1/2 plastic like a buell blast. Japan has them already, but import those and no one will buy it. The commute motorcycle has to be home grown idea. People commute on bikes alright ... today I saw a guy on a GSXR1000 riding in to work, I know him too ... Talk about overkill for his 8 mile commute. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Starlifter on 07/22/13 at 13:27:59 The Ravaging of St. Louis Today you can walk around many of the streets in St. Louis and they're empty. Nobody's there. Four decades of urban decay have left the city of St. Louis, Missouri with some of America's most devastated urban landscapes. The devastation is so widespread that it's hard to grasp how much has been lost. You visit 1900 Montgomery today, and you see buildings, with spacious garbage filled lots between them. The vacant houses succumb to fire or wind or gravity or the bulldozer, one after another, and another, and another, and another, and another... thousands of anothers. This is St. Louis today. A study in urban decay. Today you can walk around many of the streets in St. Louis and they're empty. Nobody's there. Four decades of urban decay have left the city of St. Louis, Missouri with some of America's most devastated urban landscapes. The devastation is so widespread that it's hard to grasp how much has been lost. You visit 1900 Montgomery today, and you see buildings, with spacious garbage filled lots between them. The vacant houses succumb to fire or wind or gravity or the bulldozer, one after another, and another, and another, and another, and another... thousands of anothers. This is St. Louis today. Gee Webby, maybe you should raze SL and plant trees there before you worry about Detroit. ;D |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by srinath on 07/22/13 at 13:48:47 http://www.builtstlouis.net/northside/1900_montgomery00.html Interesting ... Star demolishing parts of detroit was my idea. But, If we demolish st Louis, there wont be a core to save and wont be spokes and little towns to connect ... Detroit cant survive the way it is. It has to break into 5-6 in a controlled fashion. Its cheaper to run sewer and water to 5-6 "knots" of 80-100K people than it is to run that to that same population spread over an area 10X as much as the collective "knots" area. Fire, police and ambulance will be in every knot, as will grocery and convenience stores if not a mega mart. So they will get there in minutes instead of hours like now ... I am probably not the best judge of how to do this though, although I studied some city planning and whatever crap, I have never worked in that field ... and I never liked detroit anyway. If we raze St Louis ... there will be no need to leave a few knots ... we can just doze it all and take the bricks and walk away. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WD on 07/22/13 at 16:12:27 Start by practicing on Memphis. Leave the "entertainment district" (Beale Street) as the core, keep the "arts district" (Midtown), let the suburbs go back to being their own cities. Raze the rest of the city. Nothing would miss it but the rats and roaches... |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/22/13 at 16:55:45 Thanks foir the reply Webby, Sounds like you were an adventurous young guy on that bike,, glad ya lived, |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/13 at 18:12:47 Surprised I did live through it. I don't often think about it, but I've had quite a time. One of the more interesting things that happened to me is I got my a$$ kicked my Leon Spinks as a kid. I was the only white boy in 2nd and 3rd grade. It's a long story, but we lived in the slums for a while. It was 1968 and into part of 1970. If you remember your history, there was a lot of racial crap going on. Of course I didn't know that and neither did any other kid, but looking back on it now, the tension was palpable. My brothers were older, one in high school so he remembers it far better than I do. All I remember about Leon is he was in the 5th or 6th grade and he had hands as big as a man. it was a very short fight....actually, not really a fight at all. I couldn't have come up to much more than his waist. .My job at lunch was handing out milk cartons and something happened he didn't like! Hell, years later, other guys cashed checks for getting whipped.... I didn't! For me as a kid, it was something of an adventure. We had no heat for long periods of time in the winter and sometimes no light. We had a wood burning stove in our room. The house was 4 stories, but the top 3 were pretty much uninhabitable. That is a great playground for a kid. I remember we did fix a room on the 2nd floor to use in the summer. The stuff I saw..... I stepped outside once and saw two guys walking down the street with a gun. One of the guys turned and pointed at a group of men sitting on a curb and shot one guy though the neck. Hell of a lot of blood. Couldn't tell you if he lived or died. I have a weird memory of a cat licking the blood after the cops left. The old man in the building behind us died, but no one knew it until the smell got bad. My brothers told me his dog had been eating on him. Maybe they were pulling my leg on that part, not sure. Our neighbor was sneaking in from visiting his girlfriend when his wife smashed his head with a big iron skillet. I have a memory of seeing some of his brains on the porch. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Starlifter on 07/22/13 at 18:19:05 The entire infrastructure is collapsing. No limit to money spent on wars / military / boondoggles etc...but no money to fix the bridges, roads, sewers, water mains, electrical wires & grids. Thank congress for that. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Starlifter on 07/22/13 at 19:41:22 The reason many of our cities, including Detroit are struggling or falling? Globalization...It didn't just destroy the middle class, and drive down wages of all jobs, not just the remaining manufacturing jobs. It weakened Democracy in general, and it welcomed in our current Fascism. Almost never mentioned is the levels of debt we have incurred, in our Cities, States, and the Federal Government. Those jobs used to pay taxes here in America. But not any longer. They aren't supporting any American "Dream" these days, they aren't paying sales, gas, state, federal, property, or any other tax. I don't think we can blame Detroit, or workers for the quality of the cars, or the eventual failure of sales due to quality foreign vehicles flooding the US market. I have always wondered if Japan was literally 'given' the small car market while Detroit continued to churn out the big gas guzzlers. These were decisions made at the top levels of the companies, to outsource jobs, ignoring trends, ignoring quality, and allowing Japan to take the lead on all of that. Those were but a few top-down problems, that has all but destroyed the industry and the city, not workers "asking for too much." I'm sick of that BS meme. Even with what unions did ask for, it was still but a scarce living for a family. But at least it was a somewhat pleasant living...compared to now, anyway. Industry and national trade gave rise to cities. Without industry, industrial plants and trade within America (not primarily with foreign countries), the great cities are doomed. To convince people to "blame the unions" for dang near everything was a masterful achievement for the profit mongers. To just blame 'blacks' for the demise of the great cities of America being less than honest. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/22/13 at 20:09:09 No one is gonna ever accuse you of living a sheltered life, Webby! Dude,, YOu had some kinda life as a kid,, you came out amazingly sane,, considering,, yea,, that was kinda left handed,, :) |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WebsterMark on 07/22/13 at 20:25:09 You have no idea Jog!..... I can honestly say I'm the luckiest guy in the world. I've done all kinds of things, been from one end of the planet to the other, gone hungry and have eaten in restaurants you would not believe, slept on the floor and in hotel rooms bigger than my house, went from no parents in the slums to having my brothers and I reunited to grow up in a middle class neighborhood, raised by my two aunts. My aunt brought in 4 of us kids into her house after she was just getting ready to work part time and travel. both my aunts were recent widows. In her own house, she gave up her bedroom so 3 boys could stay together. For the next 7 or 8 years until we began moving out, she slept on a pull out couch in the dining room. Simply amazing..... |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/22/13 at 20:41:35 Whether it is to be published or not, you should sit down & write down just the main parts, then go back & fill in details. Leave pages op[en between places, your family should have that history, its not exactly the average experience .,.,dont let it get lost, its cool |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WebsterMark on 07/23/13 at 04:41:10 Na....For a kid, it was a great time. Now that I'm older, I see it for what it really was. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WebsterMark on 07/23/13 at 04:42:19 Back to the topic at hand, read a story yesterday that Chicago's not next on the bankruptcy train, but Illinois is. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Midnightrider on 07/23/13 at 20:38:30 We can sell Detroit to the Chinese and let them start building cars there. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WD on 07/23/13 at 21:58:17 Give it to Canada and good riddance. Once that country cleans it up, we can press to annex it the entire northern tier as war debt reparations... Except Quebec, I don't like French "cuisine"... fancy way to serve garbage. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by srinath on 07/24/13 at 10:46:05 1E3A373D3A343B27213A373621530 wrote:
We sell detroit to the chinese, and make them maintain it or we write em a ticket ... we dont let their laborers come over to maintain it, they will have to hire us ... and when they do, we will want to be paid Legal laborer wages, not illegal mexican wages. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by srinath on 07/24/13 at 10:48:07 416673607E7B74667760120 wrote:
True ... collapse of detroit isn't proof that Unions dont work ... Its proof that roads do work ... Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Dane Allen on 07/24/13 at 11:57:08 21203B3C33263A520 wrote:
We sell detroit to the chinese, and make them maintain it or we write em a ticket ... we dont let their laborers come over to maintain it, they will have to hire us ... and when they do, we will want to be paid Legal laborer wages, not illegal mexican wages. Cool. Srinath.[/quote] How sad is it that we would need the Chinese to fix a broken American city run into the ground by 60 years of liberal rule. I think a group of real Conservatives (not establishment Republicans i.e. Bush/Cheney/Rove) could whip that place into shape, assuming the massive institutional corruption could be cut away. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by srinath on 07/24/13 at 13:22:14 795C53587C515158533D0 wrote:
We sell detroit to the chinese, and make them maintain it or we write em a ticket ... we dont let their laborers come over to maintain it, they will have to hire us ... and when they do, we will want to be paid Legal laborer wages, not illegal mexican wages. Cool. Srinath.[/quote] How sad is it that we would need the Chinese to fix a broken American city run into the ground by 60 years of liberal rule. I think a group of real Conservatives (not establishment Republicans i.e. Bush/Cheney/Rove) could whip that place into shape, assuming the massive institutional corruption could be cut away.[/quote] Yea one more librull problem to you dane ... Curious how you ignored the whole decay of St Louis in the republicommunist state ... The whole selling it to the chinese was to play on the fears that "parts of america will be sold to china and that is so bad" ... It will be bad, for the chinese ... Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Dane Allen on 07/24/13 at 13:28:40 24253E3936233F570 wrote:
We sell detroit to the chinese, and make them maintain it or we write em a ticket ... we dont let their laborers come over to maintain it, they will have to hire us ... and when they do, we will want to be paid Legal laborer wages, not illegal mexican wages. Cool. Srinath.[/quote] How sad is it that we would need the Chinese to fix a broken American city run into the ground by 60 years of liberal rule. I think a group of real Conservatives (not establishment Republicans i.e. Bush/Cheney/Rove) could whip that place into shape, assuming the massive institutional corruption could be cut away.[/quote] Yea one more librull problem to you dane ... Curious how you ignored the whole decay of St Louis in the republicommunist state ... The whole selling it to the chinese was to play on the fears that "parts of america will be sold to china and that is so bad" ... It will be bad, for the chinese ... Cool. Srinath.[/quote] Did St. Louis file for bankruptcy last week? |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WebsterMark on 07/24/13 at 15:04:09 Missouri is far from a republicommunist state, but it has gone Republican lately. We have a Democratic Governor right now and even elected a dead Democratic for governor a while ago..... St. Louis is not bankrupt, but like almost every major US city, it is run exclusively by Democrats and has been for a while, which means they spend 10 times more than needed to do anything. St. Louis has lost population no doubt but has actually gained a little back lately. It is not a fair comparison to Detroit. St. Louis, Cincinnati, Louisville and Nashville are pretty much all the same city. Detroit is in a class by itself. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WD on 07/24/13 at 16:07:45 Been skipping Memphis again? You know, Detroit light... ;) |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WebsterMark on 07/24/13 at 18:09:21 I loath Memphis...... One of the few places I go that I want a gun. I'm in little. Rock AR tonight and it's a nice place. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WD on 07/24/13 at 19:24:45 Don't order a pizza from the place on the motel key cards, you'll get sick... was in Little Rock in January or February for a sustainable southern agriculture conference. Still can't look at a pizza w/o feeling queasy... |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by srinath on 07/25/13 at 07:12:31 497B7C6D6A7B6C537F6C751E0 wrote:
OK this again ... yes find some convoluted way to blame democraps ... Missouri is republican, and has been republican for the last 20 years atleast. That makes even the democraps in the state very republican. Like a montana democrat, is pro gun, pro life, pro small govt and anti federal govt ... isn't that called well ... republican ... Any state that has gone for 1 party in the last 4-5 cycles in presidential is that party's state. A NJ republican to the left of is a montana democrat ... Missouri and St Louis are republican in the national sense. If a state is a flip flopper, OK I'd say no its not a red or blue for sure. Memphis as well, TN is deep red ... and you should have a gun in Memphis, the criminals do, they have the second amendment and the NRA helping them ... Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WD on 07/25/13 at 07:40:30 Sri, you really need to come see Memphis. Makes the slums of the 3rd world look nice. Parts of the city (including many primarily black neighborhoods) are really nice, others have been horror shows since the 1960s. What the Union Army left alone in 1862 was conquered and destroyed during the civil rights movement. I'll drive you down to Beale St on a Saturday, makes the bad old days of the French Quarter in New Orleans look down right civilized. Pine spent last night in Memphis, he's bringing his bike by my place today for a tire and some ergonomic adjustments. Ask him what the city was like, he stayed at a motel in "the loop", the I-240 ring around the city. Have not heard from him yet this morning... |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by srinath on 07/25/13 at 08:11:21 Almost any city dominated by 1 party could be that way ... and let us know when pine shows up safe ... Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Dane Allen on 07/25/13 at 08:23:48 5D5C47404F5A462E0 wrote:
OK this again ... yes find some convoluted way to blame democraps ... Missouri is republican, and has been republican for the last 20 years atleast. That makes even the democraps in the state very republican. Like a montana democrat, is pro gun, pro life, pro small govt and anti federal govt ... isn't that called well ... republican ... Any state that has gone for 1 party in the last 4-5 cycles in presidential is that party's state. A NJ republican to the left of is a montana democrat ... Missouri and St Louis are republican in the national sense. If a state is a flip flopper, OK I'd say no its not a red or blue for sure. Memphis as well, TN is deep red ... and you should have a gun in Memphis, the criminals do, they have the second amendment and the NRA helping them ... Cool. Srinath. [/quote] What you aren't taking into consideration is that there are liberal Republicans and Conservative Democraps. There are many fiscal Conservative, social liberals. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by srinath on 07/25/13 at 09:23:24 Yes, and in local politics, its pretty common to have the center so far off to 1 side, it can entirely blur the lines in national left vs right. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WD on 07/25/13 at 13:41:52 484952555A4F533B0 wrote:
All good. Trailered in fine, swapped his back tire, diagnosed a few minor glitches, had a hands on adjustments/bypasses tutorial. On his way home now. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WebsterMark on 07/25/13 at 18:53:35 Sri, I've lived in Missouri all my life, I'm guessing I know it better than you. It's a close state. The rural areas are pretty strong conservative, probably slightly more than the rural areas in other states. It's not a convoluted way to blame the Democrats at all, its a very clear way to blame the democrats. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by srinath on 07/26/13 at 08:12:56 714344555243546B47544D260 wrote:
Your "democrats" are in the national sense republicans. Much like NJ republicans are democrats. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WebsterMark on 07/26/13 at 08:24:17 Not even remotely true, but whatever Sri, whatever. (Part 2) |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Midnightrider on 07/26/13 at 15:50:59 Detroit as the Example By Richard Grenell Tuesday, July 23, 2013 Detroit is a great example for cities and states across the U.S. Its problems have been slowly building for decades. Years of decreasing revenues and increasing expenses have been met with political selfishness and weak leadership – all which led Detroit to recently file for bankruptcy. As it stands, Detroit is $18 billion dollars in debt. Although this is an astronomical figure, it isn't surprising… Across the country, public pensions have grown large and grand at a time when government programs have been shrinking. Political leaders, like Detroit's, who scale back public programs but fail to cut the bureaucrats administering those programs will find themselves in Detroit's shoes soon enough. Local political officials across the U.S. should see Detroit's filing as a warning sign of what can happen when they ignore public deficits. ------------ Advertisement ---------- Will this looming event ruin Republicans? A financial journalist based just outside of Washington DC says a brewing scandal will radically alter both the Republican Party and the nation as a whole. Get the full story here… ------------------------------------- Detroit's interim leader and emergency manager Kevyn Orr seems well-equipped to make the tough decisions that so-far have not been made in Detroit. Orr, appointed by Michigan Governor and budget hawk Rick Snyder, is an expert bankruptcy lawyer. Snyder and Orr understand that you cannot continue to spend money you don't have. While most politicians would love to say yes to every resident, lobbyist or union member asking for increased spending or new programs, only weak politicians agree to spend money that isn't available. Orr has signaled that Detroit's problems must be solved by Detroit and that a state or federal bailout won't fix Detroit's structural problems. Governor Snyder views the bankruptcy as an opportunity to fix the problems. "Now is our opportunity to stop 60 years of decline," Snyder said this week. A bankruptcy filing offers Detroit a chance at a fresh start. Here are a few fixes that Orr and Snyder should implement to restore faith in Detroit's leadership: 1. End all pension agreements previously negotiated and offer retirees a more realistic package. 2. Right-size city government by laying off workers whose programs aren't funded. 3. Concentrate on delivering the basic services. 4. Separate certain areas from the city's jurisdiction in an effort to make Detroit not so vast an area to govern. 5. Make public safety the top priority of city officials. 6. Move city workers out of offices and into the community. 7. Repeal all city regulations that discourage businesses from operating within the city's limits. 8. Aggressively recruit new businesses to the city. 9. Work with Detroit's professional sports teams to market Detroit better. 10. Lean on Detroit's famous residents to help recruit businesses to the city. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by thecoolerking on 07/26/13 at 18:30:05 Wasn't Robocop set in Detroit? Not sure, but it seemed that it looked that way. Maybe it was prophetic. Seems I can't visit there without getting a ticket. It's like they've got rental cars marked so that they can get some out of state revenue influx. Still, felt like I was making a necessary "donation" when I pay up. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by thecoolerking on 07/26/13 at 18:31:49 223E333539393A33243D3F3831560 wrote:
Yep, shoulda googled first. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WebsterMark on 07/26/13 at 20:50:51 Wasn't Robocop set in Detroit? Not sure, but it seemed that it looked that way. Maybe it was prophetic. Seems I can't visit there without getting a ticket. It's like they've got rental cars marked so that they can get some out of state revenue influx. Still, felt like I was making a necessary "donation" when I pay up. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.... |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Midnightrider on 07/27/13 at 23:43:05 I would love to see the old factories turned into federal prisons and make them produce something that can be sold.. It cost over $40,00 a year to keep up a prisoner. That's more than I make. They could make clothes, hardware items, anything to defer the cost we're paying now. Since no salaries are involved what they make would compete with China and cut back on our imports. Anyone that doesn't want to work add 5 years to their sentence. It would be good therapy to produce something with good quality they could be proud of all the while teaching them good work ethics. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/28/13 at 00:14:24 YOure not thinking that thru.. when the state benefits from prisoners,,,theyll have bunches, its already goin that way,, |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Midnightrider on 07/28/13 at 00:40:50 I really don't understand what you mean Jog. The states aren't benefitting from the prisoners paying over $40,000 a year keeping them up. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/28/13 at 03:10:09 It may cost 40k a year, but its not costin the State that very often. Look into private owned prisons. How many times have I posted the complaint of states signing contracts to keep the prisons at 90% capacity? |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 07/28/13 at 08:13:08 Midnight - Your idea of using prison labor is a good one, except for the political power of unions. It's unions that have prevented prisons from being able to manufacture and sell products - the unions don't want to lose jobs to prisoners. I preached before that the real problem with public employee pensions isn't the amount of the pension, but the length of time it is paid to a retiree due to the silly retirement ages of public employees. 30 years service is fairly standard across the country. A young person who hires in to the highway department, city clerk's office, or some other desk job is often eligible to retire with full benefits when that person is in his/her early 50s - an absurd result. Fire fighters and police officers are different, since physical condition, endurance, agility, etc. are requirements for those jobs, so going out in one's 50s is reasonable for them. But not for some desk jockey. They should be compelled to stay at work until at least age 65. School teachers are my pet peeve here - go in to teaching at 23, retire at 53. Since many if not most teachers are female, and with the life expectancy constantly going up, especially for women, a teacher can well spend more years collecting retirement than she did working - a recipe for financial disaster. So, you don't have to cut the amount of the pensions - just raise public employee retirement age to 65 like most private sector workers, except, again, for fire and police. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/28/13 at 08:20:17 Prison should never make a profit. That makes Having Prisoners profitable. We have seen states sell off their prison system to private companies AND promise to Keep the Prisons filled to at Least 90% capacity,, AND theyre building prisons, That tells me theyre willing to create criminals, Society doesnt want to make being taken captive & caged beneficial to people who just want to make $$$.. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Midnightrider on 07/28/13 at 11:27:57 Jog I don't believe in private prisons either. I was trying to come up with a solution for the government to recoup some of their cost. They were trying to get private prisons in Virginia, I think it failed. If someone can make a profit running the prison system the government needs to overhaul theirs. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Midnightrider on 07/28/13 at 11:36:40 Jerry Detroits pensions were ridiculous, some of them over $100,000 for mayors, police chiefs, etc. They're in the process of cutting pensions now because they have to and I don't feel sorry for those people. That's a clear example of politicians taking advantage of the people. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/28/13 at 12:20:56 The problem is that IF someone is making $$$ by Having Prisoners, it makes Creating Criminals a lucrative industry. I really dont want to live where thats the policy,, BUT, I do. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Midnightrider on 07/28/13 at 13:18:35 Jog you have a good point but it shouldn't cost $40,000 a year to keep a prisoner. That's more than I make. I was just trying to cut cost. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/28/13 at 15:09:25 $40,000.00/ year to HOUSE & supervise a guy in a BOX? Seems a bit overblown, dunnitt? I mite question the stated cost.. but what are the guards paid? |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Midnightrider on 07/28/13 at 15:29:32 I guessing their medical bills might included with that. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by WD on 07/28/13 at 16:07:53 352A2C2B3631003000382A266D5F0 wrote:
Not enough, my friend/farmhand/gamekeepr is a former corrections officer. Granted, in the 1990s, but less than $20/hr to deal with all the inherent stupidity in the system, from convicts AND admin... |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Pine on 07/28/13 at 19:39:03 4243585F504559310 wrote:
Funny, I was thinking about Detroit.. what what I would do.. and one main thing would be offer outlying districts their independence, which would probably NOT be free.. Ie, a recoup of infrastructure, but allow the new towns resolve thier own city labor. I could see Detroit selling sewage treatment and other services. I would expect that at some point Detroit would be this industrial complex and slums. But infrastructure would be much smaller and more manageable. I think that could be turned around. ABC News This Week .. the round table. and then there is this... "For 60 years they voted for incompetence" "they dont have a fiscal problem they are victims of a cultural collapse" "in the spirit of national whatever, do you want to reach out and help them for not a lot a money we are talking a few billion dollars" Again really? we are comparing victims of Katrina with those the VOTED and chose their path? And since when is "a few billion" dollars not a lot of money .. Hey Steve toss me just half a billion... surely your egghead wallet wont miss it! Full show here.. sadly I cant give a time mark... http://abcnews.go.com/watch/this-week/SH559082/VDKA0_px4fhz8b/this-week-0728-obamas-new-economic-plan-for-america |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by srinath on 07/29/13 at 08:22:08 I've been to detriot in its heyday ... I still hated it. Its a huge city with the population of a small town ... I dont think there will ever be anyone paying for anything ... the govt will have to move people form one house, to another similar house that they have that has been abandoned or they own, and get them relocated so the ycan stop having to field the whole empty city. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by oldNslow on 07/29/13 at 09:20:49 Just read that even as the bankrupcy proceedings get underway the Detroit city council is considering whether or not to move forward with plans for a 400 million dollar taxpayer funded hockey arena. "Oh, wait. We don't have any taxpayers anymore. Crap!" 50 or so years of dumbasses electing dumbasses and criminals to run the town; this is what you get. |
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Title: Re: What will Detroit be like in 5 years? Post by Paraquat on 07/29/13 at 09:29:38 4273607363677366120 wrote:
11th post in on the first page, guys. Beat you to it. --Steve |
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