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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Cam chain tensioner questions /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1373301168 Message started by Toroso on 07/08/13 at 09:32:48 |
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Title: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by Toroso on 07/08/13 at 09:32:48 I take it from what I have read here that the problem with the stock cam chain tensioner is that it's design can allow the plunger to come out of its housing? This leaves loose parts bouncing around moving parts making a bad situation? Cam chain could actually come off making another bad situation? What is the purpose of the cam chain tensioner? To keep tension on the chain as it stretches? When the plunger piece is out the recommended 19mm, what is the course of action? Replace cam chain? |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by Oldfeller on 07/08/13 at 09:36:13 Read this, then refine your question based on what you know now. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1176999168 |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/08/13 at 11:45:33 576C716C706C030 wrote:
This leaves loose parts bouncing around moving parts making a bad situation? catastrophic engine destruction is a closer definition to what could, & usually does, happen. not to mention the hazard it creates for the rider should that happen in traffic in a good sweeping curve.. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by Dane Allen on 07/08/13 at 11:52:27 657A7C7B6661506050687A763D0F0 wrote:
This leaves loose parts bouncing around moving parts making a bad situation? catastrophic engine destruction is a closer definition to what could, & usually does, happen. not to mention the hazard it creates for the rider should that happen in traffic in a good sweeping curve.. [/quote] A keeper prevents the plunger from exiting the housing. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by clearush on 07/08/13 at 12:15:40 0C29262D0924242D26480 wrote:
Since when?? the major design flaw in the Savage/S40 cam chain tensioner is there is no "keeper" to keep it together once it exceeds the 21mm max extention. Which is why its so essential to check the tensioner at 10K miles and ever so often afterwards and either change the tensioner for a Verslavy tensioner or replace your cam chain and followers. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by strang on 07/08/13 at 12:28:49 Versalagen1 (moderator on here) sells a "verslavy" which is an aftermarket part that he designed and builds. It has a stop/stopper that prevents the plunger being able to wiggle out of the housing and destroy your engine. I don't know about you but I thought it was good insurance and took me 45mins to fit. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l113/kevin_phan/D70s/D70/D300/35de751b.jpg photo courtesy of mpescatori - hope that's cool. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by verslagen1 on 07/08/13 at 12:58:57 2A252C283B3C3A21490 wrote:
Since when?? the major design flaw in the Savage/S40 cam chain tensioner is there is no "keeper" to keep it together once it exceeds the 21mm max extention. Which is why its so essential to check the tensioner at 10K miles and ever so often afterwards and either change the tensioner for a Verslavy tensioner or replace your cam chain and followers.[/quote] Dane failed to say it, but he meant the verslavy has a keeper... and he has one 8-) |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by Toroso on 07/08/13 at 13:21:12 636462717E77100 wrote:
It sounds like good insurance to me. I'll be getting one. I'm going to do an oil change as soon as I can and want to check the current situation then. I was browsing around looking for a gasket and came up with a set for whole motor, which I don't want. And an OEM for like $26!!! Anyone have a clutch cover gasket part number? |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by Dave on 07/08/13 at 13:35:27 You can go to any online supplier and access the parts diagrams and get price and part numbers. http://www.hondaofflorence.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=432114&category=Motorcycles&make=SUZUKI&year=2005&fveh=10118 Some of the cheaper gaskets on eBay or online are not factory ones and don't have the sealant applied to the gasket where the pressurized oil passages take oil up to the cylinder head. NOTE: Don't ask me why there are 2 different part numbers listed for the cover gasket......I don't know the difference. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by Dane Allen on 07/08/13 at 14:01:11 584B5C5D424F494B401F2E0 wrote:
Since when?? the major design flaw in the Savage/S40 cam chain tensioner is there is no "keeper" to keep it together once it exceeds the 21mm max extention. Which is why its so essential to check the tensioner at 10K miles and ever so often afterwards and either change the tensioner for a Verslavy tensioner or replace your cam chain and followers.[/quote] Dane failed to say it, but he meant the verslavy has a keeper... and he has one 8-)[/quote] Yes and it is now spelled correctly in my tagline :) |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by Toroso on 07/08/13 at 14:53:49 Since my bike is approaching 20K miles. Would it be a good idea to replace the cam chain when I put the new tensioner on? Is that a job a noob could handle? |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by Dane Allen on 07/08/13 at 14:57:18 506B766B776B040 wrote:
As a fellow noob my vote is no ;D I think you should measure the slack in the chain first and see how the tensioner fits, but that is just me. I swapped mine at 1,400 miles as a case of cheap insurance. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by verslagen1 on 07/08/13 at 15:00:23 08332E332F335C0 wrote:
If you're replacing the stock tensioner (why?) you need a new chain instead. If you're putting in a verslavy, then the chain will be ok for another 20k miles. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/08/13 at 15:06:12 man, if you need a tensioner, get one from versy, dont be puttin a stock unit in there,, conjure up in your mind that sign posted , with the skull & bones, by some water in a desert, surrounded by bones,, the sign says youll be Sorry! |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by WD on 07/08/13 at 15:27:54 Ah, c'mon JOG, we haven't had a catastrophic engine failure from a poorly designed factory engineered part in so long... |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by Toroso on 07/08/13 at 15:40:58 243720213E3335373C63520 wrote:
If you're replacing the stock tensioner (why?) you need a new chain instead. If you're putting in a verslavy, then the chain will be ok for another 20k miles.[/quote] I do plan on the Verslavy, emailed you about it. Just was thinkun take care of it while I'm in there. I have no idea what shape the chain is in now. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by WD on 07/08/13 at 15:47:53 My 98 has a couple mm left. And the odometer/speedometer was deleted 8 years ago with between 15 and 16K miles showing... Even if I get the electrical, engine repaint, finish painting the tins, fix the foot controls (shim floorboards, extend brake/shift arms), it is most likely staying parked until the get together at my place. When my Verslavy will get here (hopefully still with its inventor)... Too hot to ride anyway. Like breathing soup... made out of road kill... Tipton County TN stinks (literally). ;D |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by Toroso on 07/08/13 at 16:05:37 5E4D090 wrote:
Yer on the other end of TN from me. Stinks here too. Rain for 2 weeks straight then humidity, yuk. I've been meaning to ask. My bike was sold as a 1999. But I don't a 99 in research. Goes from 98 to 2000. The sticker has 5/98 production date. So is it a 98? |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by SALB on 07/08/13 at 16:25:41 053E233E223E510 wrote:
Yer on the other end of TN from me. Stinks here too. Rain for 2 weeks straight then humidity, yuk. I've been meaning to ask. My bike was sold as a 1999. But I don't a 99 in research. Goes from 98 to 2000. The sticker has 5/98 production date. So is it a 98?[/quote] Depends on the 10th digit of the VIN ;) http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1240553196 |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by Toroso on 07/08/13 at 16:31:13 Quote:
A 99 it is! Thanks |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by clearush on 07/08/13 at 16:35:27 140710110E0305070C53620 wrote:
Since when?? the major design flaw in the Savage/S40 cam chain tensioner is there is no "keeper" to keep it together once it exceeds the 21mm max extention. Which is why its so essential to check the tensioner at 10K miles and ever so often afterwards and either change the tensioner for a Verslavy tensioner or replace your cam chain and followers.[/quote] Dane failed to say it, but he meant the verslavy has a keeper... and he has one 8-)[/quote] :o that's a pretty big miss :-? |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by 87 savage on 07/08/13 at 16:52:06 5F64796478640B0 wrote:
Toroso, Here is some more info on the 1999 savage: http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Suzuki_LS650#1999_LS650PX |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by Toroso on 07/09/13 at 06:13:03 I'm getting things together to do the Verslavy. Can someone tell me if this is the correct clutch cover gasket number? 11482-24B11 Tks |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by verslagen1 on 07/09/13 at 07:18:31 that's the right one |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by WD on 07/09/13 at 08:30:00 You're going with a paper gasket? :-? Gray Permatex is better, just use it sparingly... next time you feel like opening up the engine, the gunk stays on the outer case section, peels off with finger pressure instead of risking the sealing surface with a razor blade. And you aren't supporting the factory's bad engineering... FTF!... yeah, I rode Harleys for too long... ;D |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by Toroso on 07/09/13 at 09:08:11 6C7F3B0 wrote:
I'm new to all this, I don't know any better! ;D |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by apache snow on 07/09/13 at 09:25:06 Use the gasket. It will work much better. Thats how it was designed. :) |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by WD on 07/09/13 at 10:30:00 Aw man, taking more of my fun away... >:( ;) ;D I use Permatex because I like to take my toys apart, a lot. Except for the Savage engine. I had a 1970 FL that took over 100 man hours of work to seal up tightly. Finally broke down and used Yamabond instead of the factory case gaskets. No more leaks. Did a clutch job on the 1500 Intruder, replaced the factory gasket with grey goop based on Kawasaki forum recommendations, hasn't oozed a drop of oil out the case seam. Might work too well, now the cam caps leak. And the rear base gasket. And the stator wiring pass through port. And and and... Almost as bad as a nose cone Shovel or first gen Evo. ;D |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by Toroso on 07/09/13 at 10:33:12 Should I use the gasket as is? Or apply some sort of sealer? |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by apache snow on 07/09/13 at 10:35:26 Have been working on motorcycles since 1958. I used to build Harleys from the crank shaft up. I have never had a problem getting a seal with a factory gasket. :) I would use the gasket as is. Although some use sealer on one side. It makes it harder to get the gasket off the next time. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by WD on 07/09/13 at 11:38:03 As is, it needs to have contact with the hot oil to swell the edges and do its job correctly. When you take the cover off, you'll see where the edges have gotten thicker. That's how/why paper gaskets work. But only on pretty much perfect surfaces, be very careful not to nick, gouge or chip the machined surface while removing the old gasket. If the old gasket feels like it is glued on, go buy some gasket remover and liberally saturate/soak the stuck bits. Can save you a lot of money in the end. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by thecoolerking on 07/15/13 at 15:59:04 102B362B372B440 wrote:
I needed to order a gasket today and found two different numbers. The one above for "Model K5/K6" and 11482-24B20 for "Model K7/K8/K9" How the heck do I know which one I have? Looked all over. It's a 2005 S40. I'm a noob, so that's my excuse. ;D |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by apache snow on 07/15/13 at 16:26:31 An 05 model is a K5. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by thecoolerking on 07/15/13 at 16:30:23 Thanks. That makes sense. I guess that was too easy. I think I'll go with the Permatex gauge though, but good to know. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by WD on 07/15/13 at 20:26:05 Be very sparing with the Permatex if you are going that route. Pea sized dabs on your finger tip, spread it level on the machined surface. You want to almost see through it, so not much thicker than standard weight typing paper. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by locomotiveman1 on 07/16/13 at 20:34:58 Has anyone known of a similar Cam Chain Tensioner in an engine other than our Single-cylinder iteration? ...and if so, what's the story there? And if not, then we may have a unique critter in all the world that's merely a bad OEM part. Reason I ask it thusly..as a newbie to the issue.. is this: It appears limited to the poor design/application of a spring-loaded piston in a too short barrel..all 'spec'd wrong for the task assigned it. If Verslagy's Mod works; and Oldfeller's observations on the Chain's expected Engineered Life, Thermal Cycling, Oil change interval etc are unbiased and correct, then it narrows the issue down immensely for a newbie like me to this: It's a poorly designed part that needs to be improved to keep the engine thumpin'. Reading the entire thread's tutorial has been 'revealing', thanks guys. My biggest problem now? Getting a Verslagy Mod. ASAP. Locomotiveman1 |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/16/13 at 21:59:22 If I was keeping mine Id mod the tensioner. Yes, do the whole Verslagen mod, extra hole and the Keeper pin & slot. But, Id get rid of some of the teeth on the ratchet setion, or, lay it on the bench & study a while,, mite not be feasible, |
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Title: Re: Cam chain tensioner questions Post by Dave on 07/17/13 at 05:30:06 If you go to eBay and search "manual chain tensioner" you will get 1,460 choices. Evidently a lot of the automatic chain tensioners can be problematic. I am not sure if the tensioners fail - or if they don't control the tension well. The adjustment can be made on the outside of the case on most bikes. Even the DR650 engines have the tensioner up on the cylinder and not buried in the crankcase. When my bike is apart this winter for painiting I am going to make a manual adjuster and see how long I can go with a manual adjustment. I could use the stock tension spring to establish the tension, then use a threaded rod as the shaft with two jam nuts to lock the tension in place. If the tension could go for a year without adjustment.....I am OK with that. |
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