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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> 05 s40 blowing black smoke? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1373160406 Message started by Kayleigh on 07/06/13 at 18:26:46 |
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Title: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Kayleigh on 07/06/13 at 18:26:46 I recently changed the oil on my bike, and put some gas in it, and it is blowing black smoke every time I start it up. What can I do to adjust this or will it burn off on its own? Thanks! |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Oldfeller on 07/06/13 at 18:35:16 Wow, lots of black smoke coming from the exhaust pipe, huh? Bummer bad, that -- but likely not fatal. Please tell us more about how you changed the oil, what brand and weight oil you used, where you put it in and how you judged you had "enough" oil in the sump and it was time to stop adding oil. You see, we have to assume a whole lot when you don't tell us everything, and we generally always assume wrongly just because we are having to ASSume again (when we know better, by golly). :) ..... and yes, I read it and I noticed it and I let it go right on past because I am being all nice today. It will get clarified by the next post after all, so why even go there? |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Kayleigh on 07/06/13 at 18:53:38 45666E6C6F66666F780A0 wrote:
I got it changed at a dealership.... They used 10w40 performance oil. I assume that they put in through the oil cap.. where the oil is supposed to go. I double checked the oil amount in the oil level look through and it is slightly covering the look through on the kickstand and i can just barely see it when i have it level. I know i was having some piston noise before I took it to the dealership. Also according to them, the valve adjustments are good. I am more so worried about the black smoke and the piston noise. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/06/13 at 18:57:54 521511505444444F210 wrote:
I got it changed at a dealership.... They used 10w40 performance oil. I assume that they put in through the oil cap.. where the oil is supposed to go. I double checked the oil amount in the oil level look through and it is slightly covering the look through on the kickstand and i can just barely see it when i have it level. I know i was having some piston noise before I took it to the dealership. Also according to them, the valve adjustments are good. I am more so worried about the black smoke and the piston noise.[/quote] I got it changed at a dealership.... thats what worries me,, dont do that |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Kayleigh on 07/06/13 at 19:05:36 It's owned by a family friend and it was done for next to free in less time then it would take me soooo. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Oldfeller on 07/06/13 at 19:06:11 (overcome by posting lag) ================= Ask the nice service manager what your compression test numbers were like. You want NUMBERS out of this, not some comment or blow off. This will scare him, because it implies you have a knowledgeable person on board now. If you have ring damage, this is the test they would do normally. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Kayleigh on 07/06/13 at 19:16:34 okay.. I will req the numbers but chances are I wont see anything till Monday as the shop is closed for the weekend now. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Oldfeller on 07/07/13 at 03:35:21 Does the smoking stop/get less when the engine warms up good? If so there is hope it may get better over time. If so, run the bike through several tanks of gas and see if it improves. Mild "sticky rings" can clear themselves up over time, but actual more severe piston / cylinder scoring type damage is there to stay. What caused your damage? Did you run it way low on oil for a while or what? |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Dave on 07/07/13 at 03:51:16 Maybe I am going down the wrong line of thought......but I always felt that burning oil made bluish white smoke and burning fuel made black smoke. Did somebody leave the choke on? Is the original vacuum petcock acting up and bleeding fuel into the suction hose? Is it time for her to "Check her Petcock"? http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1 |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Gyrobob on 07/07/13 at 04:38:08 32090413020E151308000D12610 wrote:
My thought as well. Usually oil is whitish smoke with a burned oil smell, and excess fuel (such as leaving a choke on,.. Savages don't have chokes) results in black smoke and a distinctive unburned fuel smell. On a Savage running properly, leaving the mixture enrichment knob out (some folks call that knob a choke), will cause the motor to run a little rich at normal speeds, but not enough to make black smoke. With the scant info supplied so far, my speculation would be there is some fuel getting into the intake tract other than the normal path through the carb. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Oldfeller on 07/07/13 at 05:41:14 Time to pick a single path and follow it or else you risk confusing the new person too too much. Making sure the choke button is in all the way is something they can do right away. That is a no brainer. Oil on the air filter paper can cause extreme richness as the stock paper filter won't pass enough air if it got oiled by accident (or on purpose by Mikey with his little spray can of K&N filter oil). Problem is that he/she has let a dealership Mikey work on her bike and there is simply no telling what they did to it in misguided attempts to service it. We don't even know that it was a Suzuki motorcycle dealership (not that it makes a lot of difference, really) -- all we know is it smokes black smoke now that it has been given back to him/her. And you are right, we still don't know year model, mileage, or any of the other things that would be useful. ================ So, we are playing "Boy George in the bathroom with the toilet plunger" again .... and we know how Nurse Ratchet and Colonel Mustard both feel about 'ol floppy hat George boy a' messing about in their bathroom when nobody is about, now don't we? In this particular game of Clue we aren't being given any information at all so we can play. Kayleigh, talk to us, talk to us LOTS, tell us all about your bike, tell us how old it is, how many miles, how you got it, who has worked on it, that sort of stuff. Why is it you think you have a piston issue? Did someone tell you that? If you paid those people to work on your bike and they gave it back to you all screwed up like they did, then the Service Manager should make that right at NO CHARGE to you. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by mjs3790225 on 07/07/13 at 10:05:12 Yeah, these guys are good here. They just want all the info they can get so that huge amassed flow chart of knowledge in their heads can get to work. Each node on the chart will get you a few more questions, and a few more steps into a solution. You're in good hands here; they've seen it all! ;) |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Steve H on 07/07/13 at 10:08:09 I'm with OF, Gyrobob, and Dave. I've always been told Black smoke is fuel, bluish white is oil, and really white is water. Check the enrichment valve(choke). Make sure it is all the way in. Do the petcock test to make sure there is not a problem there. Check the paper air filter element. If it's covered with oil, it'll choke the engine causing black smoke. If so, replace it after figuring out where the oil came from. If it's an oilable pod or oilable stock replacement, it could just have too much oil. We are assuming there was no problem like this before the oil change. Did you have them do anything else to the bike while it was there? Are there any signs that they did anything else while it was there? It would be helpful to know year, miles, any mods done, any problems apparent before oil change. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Charon on 07/07/13 at 10:48:00 If the dealership overfilled the oil, which by the description sounds possible, the engine could have blown oil into the air box and gotten oil onto the filter. I'd pull the plug out of the air box drain hose and if more than a small amount of oil comes out, open the air box and look. Might want to put some sort of catch pan under the hose, just in case. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Kayleigh on 07/07/13 at 10:51:40 So I checked all the valves and my "choke" I have the fuel tank on reserve as I need to get some gas The choke is all the way in I can hear some piston noise I am getting a lot of shaking and a rattle (more than usual). That started happening last week. It started on my way to work.. I was blasting about 70 on the freeway and I started losing power, as in I was holding the throttle steady and it started backfiring and dropped to 60 mph. I pulled off did a few checks put some gas in and it seemingly worked out okay, but then I noticed I was low oil when I got home later that day So I added some oil.. and kept adding and adding until I had a view of the oil in the oil level sight when i had the kickstand down . There are no signs that the did anything else while it was there I did have carb rebuilt after I got the bike. I got at it at a garage sale for $500 bucks knowing it needed about $500 of work on it. I haven't got a chance to look at the air filter yet.. BUT on the flip side I ride a 05 s40 with 9k on it. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Kayleigh on 07/07/13 at 10:59:14 Also I am a little worried about running a few tanks through the bike with the black smoke... reading through all these replies, I know it is partial because i let the oil get pretty low, which is my bad completely. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/07/13 at 11:21:24 i let the oil get pretty low how low? how much did you add to get it back up? |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by verslagen1 on 07/07/13 at 11:25:12 how about pulling the cork on the drain hose and see how much comes out. put an oil catch pan under it... might be a lot. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/07/13 at 11:26:32 4A594E4F505D5B59520D3C0 wrote:
thatd be interesting,, shoulda been done at oil change,, |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Kayleigh on 07/07/13 at 12:00:26 2A353334292E1F2F1F27353972400 wrote:
thatd be interesting,, shoulda been done at oil change,, [/quote] It took about 3/4 a quart to get it back up. I also have no idea what you guys are talking about when it comes to the cork in the drain hose... |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by WD on 07/07/13 at 12:05:06 :-? What plug? Mine is open to the atmosphere like an old time road draft crankcase vent tube... "Performance" 10W40 is the wrong stuff. Works good in modern sportbikes and liquid cooled cruisers with hydraulic valve adjusters. Your engine is straight out of the 60s (except for the late 1970s ignition). You need a heavy duty additive package, the dealerships don't support old tech bikes anymore. My selling dealer in 1998 told me to NEVER run factory motorcycle oil, it will wipe out the valve train. $500 yard sale bike with an overhauled carburetor... I'll lay dollars to donuts the float needle is sticking slightly open and dribbling excess fuel into the intake tract. Which can thin your oil, "wash" the bore, and make the piston/rings noisy. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Kayleigh on 07/07/13 at 12:13:01 That being said.. what oil should I be using and should I use an additive right now to make up for it until my next oil change? |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/07/13 at 12:21:09 id dump the oil, keep the filter, pour rotella t 15-40 in & never let it run low again. now, how many miles on it? |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Kayleigh on 07/07/13 at 12:24:43 223D3B3C21261727172F3D317A480 wrote:
Just under 9k |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/07/13 at 12:55:09 mmkay, your cam chain should be in good shape for a good while,, but check the air filter, look for a hose hanging down behind motor/in front of rear tire, thats plugged.. unplug it, over a catch pan.. it has a factory installed plug,, its not accidentally plugged. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by WD on 07/07/13 at 13:48:02 Plug may be missing as the hose can/does rot away or break over time... And any diesel spec oil will do. But Rotella is actually wet clutch approved. Oil change on a warm engine takes 10 minutes, maybe. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/07/13 at 14:27:48 wrench on plug, pointed to front, push down, plug is on left side of bike as youre seated on it, easy access from other side, lay down. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Kayleigh on 07/07/13 at 15:52:17 So I pulled the af and it's clean. Also check for oil or gas on the filter and it is dry with out traces of oil on it. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Gyrobob on 07/07/13 at 17:47:35 687771766B6C5D6D5D65777B30020 wrote:
What side of the bike is the plug on if you are not seated on it? |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/07/13 at 17:53:44 Is that a trick question? Im almost startin to feel picked upon,, Im old & Im crippled up,.,dont go hurtin my feelins, now, okay? |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by jcstokes on 07/07/13 at 20:07:49 Kayleigh, if you added 3/4 of a US quart your bike would have been half full of oil to start. How far up the oil level window is the oil when the bike is warm? Are you checking the oil with the bike standing vertical upright, or are you checking with the bike on the side stand? Total capacity with a filter change should be 1.8 US quart and without a filter 1.6 US quart. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by MarcosS40 on 07/08/13 at 04:08:50 767F6F687377796F1C0 wrote:
FYI That would be correct for Imperial measure, however here in the US the numbers would be 2.1 qts. w/filter change and 1.9 qts. wo/filter according to my Suzuki shop manual. A complete overhaul requires 2.5 US qts. on initial refill. So total compacity is 2.5 qts. minus the 3/4 qts. it was down, would be closer to 30% underfilled rather than half. Still not good but maybe not disasterous either. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Gyrobob on 07/08/13 at 04:46:02 46595F5845427343734B59551E2C0 wrote:
Not a trick question,... it's just that in my advancing years I get so easily confused. They won't even let me fly jets anymore. I digress,... Anyway, you mentioned something about where the plug was located when you were seated on the bike. My natural inference was to wonder about where the plug would be located if you were not seated on the bike. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by apache snow on 07/08/13 at 05:57:04 If you are standing in front facing the bike, it is on the right side. If you are standing at the rear facing the bike it is on the left side. If you are beside the bike facing the muffler side it will be on the other side. If you are beside the drive belt side it will be on the side closest to you. :-? If you are in the living room and the bike is in the garage it will be on the left side. The left side as when you sit on the bike facing forward. :o For every one else it is on the side closest to the kickstand. ;) A guy has two brothers and one sister. His sister has three brothers and no sisters. Are they in the same family. :-? |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by NormH3 on 07/08/13 at 06:39:32 4859484A414C5A47465E290 wrote:
What if you are sitting at the bar and just finished your 4th beer? |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by apache snow on 07/08/13 at 06:44:03 Quote:
Don't worry, you couldn't find it anyway. :P But keep an eye on that big lady who just sat down beside you. :-? |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Gyrobob on 07/08/13 at 09:16:04 On my RYCA, the plug pretty much stays on the left side. |
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Title: Re: 05 s40 blowing black smoke? Post by Digger on 08/12/13 at 20:03:49 It's on the port side.....no confusion with that terminology! |
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