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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Harley question /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1373028144 Message started by oldNslow on 07/05/13 at 05:42:23 |
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Title: Harley question Post by oldNslow on 07/05/13 at 05:42:23 I've always been curious why Harley Davidsons seem to generate such strong opinions pro and con compared to other brands. I rarley ever hear anyone say "All Ducatis( or Triumphs, or Suzukis or ...etc) suck! Or "I'd never ride anything but a .. (insert whatever brand pops into your head)." I hear comments like this regarding Harleys all the time. Sometimes from people who I'm pretty sure have never even ridden, much less owned one. My own Harley experience consists of a few short rides on a couple of Sportsters quite a few years ago, and sitting on some bikes in showrooms. Most of them are too big and heavy for my taste but I certainly don't hate them with the passion that some folks seem too. In fact I think the new sportster seventy two is pretty cool, although with that 2 gallon peanut tank it doesn't really make a lot of sense as a practical motorcycle. I do know a couple of guys who own Harleys - a softail custom and a dyna fat bob, and they like them just fine. So what's the deal? Are Harleys, and by extension Harley riders, judged by a different set of standards than other bikes? |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by apache snow on 07/05/13 at 06:09:40 I never knock someone elses ride. I'm glad for anyone riding on two wheels no matter what the brand. :) I sometimes think that by running down someone's bike in their mind they make their own bike seem better. :-? I rode Harleys for years. I have owned many Hondas and Triumphs but the Harleys were my all time favorites. The Harley riders around here are always out riding. They ride rain or shine and ride longer and farther than most other riders. I see more of them than any other type bikes. I am old now and the little Suzuki S40 works OK for me. Its a cruiser style bike and vibrates just enough to remind me of some of my old bikes. But I have done all I wanted to do and have nothing to prove to anyone. ;) If you feel the need to run down another bike to make yourself feel better about the bike you have, just maybe you need to get a bike that does it all for you so you don't feel so inadequate. :o just my humble opinion. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by Pine on 07/05/13 at 06:23:23 I don't "hate" HD's, I have frustration with the same trend that you see. Others having very strong opinions about the bike. My general thoughts on the HD: An 883 Sportster isn't too expensive... all the rest are. Insurance is much higher on them. Before they were bought up, by AMF/VOIT, I had a very low opinion of their build quality compared to most jap bikes. After they were bought up (same happened to many brands like Black and Decker)...Quality did not improve. But they had enough clout to get protective tariffs against import bikes. This made me angry at their brand. Even that was not enough to save them, so employees bought the company.. I assume they still own it. And Quality markedly improved. Basically, most of my life, I have considered HD inferior to import ( jap) bikes, and now (meaning last 10 years) that they are "as good", I still feel little love for something that got(gets?) preferential treatment, in terms of tariffs. Its also why at 650cc... the little thumper gets by without the tariff. Just to be fair... other brands that were destroyed by the 80's have not faired as well... and its sad. So kudos to the employees that were able to salvage HD. PS: on further fact checking the tariff was to last 5 years, but only lasted 4 as HD asked that the tariff be ended. So the Tarriff ended in 1987. I think I am a little behind the times on this "feeling" I have. :( |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by mpescatori on 07/05/13 at 06:31:25 " I rarley ever hear anyone say "All Ducatis( or Triumphs, or Suzukis or ...etc) suck!" That's because you don't live in Europe. In Italy, often depending on ... latitude (remember, Italy is long and narrow, "North" and "South" have a much sharper connotation than in the US) you will hear comments on - Ducatis (racing tractors), - Guzzis (bilge pumps... where have I heard that one before?) - Benellis (poor man's Honda) - Aprilia (rich man's Ducati) and lately, even MVAgusta (Ground Control to Major Tom... take your protein pills and put your helmet on...) The race to belittle japanese brands has been going on since the early '70s, when Kawasaki or Suzuki 2stroke triples would burn away Guzzis or Laverdas at the lights... only to be sent back to square 1 on the twisties... http://markbennett1067.com/images/Kawasaki_Nasty_Business.JPG http://33.img.v4.skyrock.net/4659/81764659/pics/3142755582_1_10_YeeVTk5A.jpg LAVERDA 750 SF with 4-shoe drum brake http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic_bikes/benelli_650s.jpg BENELLI 650 TORNADO http://www2.moto.it/static/annunci/20130323/moto-guzzi/v7-sport-243337909290400024057011.jpg MOTO GUZZI V7 SPORT |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by apache snow on 07/05/13 at 06:35:29 One of the reasons for the tariff was Honda was dumping bikes in the US at below what they were selling for in Japan. They has an unfair advantage by doing this. Also in the 30s when Harley was trying to sell their bikes in Japan the Japanese government put very high tariff on Harleys motorcycles coming into their country. What goes around comes around. |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by Jiggyfly on 07/05/13 at 07:11:29 I call it "brand affliction". Go to the racetrack......you'll see all kinds of it. Besides Harley, I think the next most strongly afflicted brand is Yamaha. I know people that still race Yamaha FZR400's against the clearly superior Suzuki SV650's because they'll never switch brands. I've had Honda Yamaha Suzuki Kawasaki Buell Harley Ducati Aprilia And I like the one I'm on, at that moment! Although Harley riders seem to buy into a "lifestyle" more than a "motorcycle". I don't get it. I own nothing that has a motorcycle brand on it. No hats, tshirts, socks, boxers......nothing. I will admit the Italian bikes tickle my senses more than most. The Harley's are very good at what they do. With that said, Harley comparisons & questions on this forum are very high! ;) |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by MMRanch on 07/05/13 at 07:39:45 Good question OldNslow ! I rode with a small group (Harleys and Vlucans) for a while and the first couple rides I brought my 1200 sportster. One day we were planning a ride to "Fall-Creek-Falls" a twistie area so I showed up on my S-40. The first coment I got was "Why ??? did you bring THAT !!!" ... Well my reply was "If you havn't seen why by the end of the day I'll tell ya !" ;D, The noise from scraping foot pegs behind me was affull for the rest of the trip , but nobody in the group had any negitave coments about the little S-40 anymore. Rule was(is) "You doin't pass the "Road-Captain""" so I spent a lot of time slowing down on the straits and speeding-up for the corners ;D and I really enjoyed the trip every twistie in in. ;). Yea I know : The things we do for fun ! ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by Oldfeller on 07/05/13 at 07:47:03 I LOVE Hurleys ..... right tasty, they are. ;) .... what flavor is your new one ?? |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by WD on 07/05/13 at 08:08:39 I've had a lot of Harley Davidsons, liked some, hated some. Based on the bikes I've owned/ridden, Big Twins 1964 and older are good, 65-69 are tolerable, 70 and newer I wouldn't have another unless it was given to me (exceptions for FXSTS and Heritage Springer). Piglets: I love the old K Model flattie, right side shift Ironheads are alright, left side shift Ironheads tend to fall apart if you look at them wrong, the Evo version is just boring. My first bike was a highly modified 1936 EL chopper, might have something to do with it... as would my last Evo BT that ate 4 engines and 6 transmissions in 6 months (all under warranty, factory had a run of substandard bearings in 93). I actually like the 72, would likely get one if it was made in black where it is currently chromed. Like the 48, but it needs a sprung solo and a rigid frame (desperately). Local dealer just took in a Heritage Springer in trade, I'd bring it home in a heartbeat, add a weld on rigid tail section and hinged rear fender, but I'm NOT paying $14K for a USED motorcycle. They do have a 65 Electra-glide, but all I'd want is the engine, can't stand the mushy feel of the Duo-Glide chassis... |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by oldNslow on 07/05/13 at 08:59:55 WD wrote: Quote:
I'm a sucker for chrome. And that red metalflake paint. With the mini apes and mid controls the 72 is the most comfortable Harley I've ever sat on. And it wouldn't look right with a bigger tank. But 2 gallons on a bike that gets what? 35-40? Well, life is full of compromises. If'n I had the money...... |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by WD on 07/05/13 at 09:18:34 My Savage has 15s, floorboards now, and gets all of 36mpg, with a 2 or 2.25 gallon tank. Getting ready to black out the engine, sick of the Chevy red-orange it has worn for 12-14 years (can't remember if the engine got sprayed in 99, 00, 01). It does wear some chrome, but only because I didn't feel like buying a box of black fender trim, or dechroming a few items (which has changed, battery box and a bunch of other stuff is getting painted) before spraying. Test sat a really nice cobalt and pewter Softail standard (21" front wheel, fat bob rear fender), but, it needs apes and a full rear fender to go in my stable... and the dealership isn't willing to do the swaps to seal the deal, soooooo.... it can go to somebody else. There are more used motorcycles of all eras and styles out there right now than there are butts to fill the seats. I'm just waiting for the right deal on the right fit to come along. |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by Serowbot on 07/05/13 at 09:35:01 I think the problem has to do with Harley's marketing... They make a conscious choice to sell to several niche markets... Putting themselves in a separate market than other motorcycles... (they have to,... because they aren't really competitive otherwise)... They have the these markets cornered... -Patriot/ thugs (Buy American)... which created with the anti-riceburner sentiment... -Rich yuppie snob, wannabees... the couture fashion riders...(who have turned Harley dealerships into salons)... -women,... often not very experienced, and looking to prove something... I know it sounds mean to say,... but it is a reality... and it is something Harley directly pursues... That said,... there are a lot of good people that ride Harely's... ... but, there are a lot of rude, snobbish, posers, too... Bike development is restricted by Harley's catering to these niche markets... (they wouldn't think of making "small" bike,... they have to encourage loud, even though they are limited by EPA... they must sell their branded accessories... ...(they even sell cologne's and perfumes, for god sake)... ... and they must overcharge in order to make themselves an elitist brand... the snob factor... It all adds up to a clientele that is encouraged by product loyalty to snub other riders.... Everybody knows that ain't all Harley riders... but, it is a catered to segment... If you are honest about it,... Harley's are nothing special... They aren't very reliable,... they're overpriced, they're technically inferior, and not fast, powerful, or good handling... ... and I kinda' like Sportsters... just not the social baggage they carry with them.... :-?... ... and I'm gonna' catch he!! for saying this... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by apache snow on 07/05/13 at 09:53:05 I don't know. I was just a poor country boy in 1960 when I rode my first Harley. I believe it was a 1952 FL model with a foot clutch and hand shift. I loved that bike for what it was. I liked the low RPM torque and pulling power. I was never into racing. Thats not what I rode motorcycles for. I have had several Harleys all big ones. i have never ridden a Sportster. They were all reliable and none of them ever let me down. I liked cruising on them as they could eat up the miles. One of my buddies(he died two years ago) Rode a Harley Road King with his wife from Tennessee to California and back. Said he had a blast. But in the early 70s, a guy who just moved here from calif. left his Honda CB 350 back there. He flew out there and rode the 350 back to Tennessee. I aways though he was either tough or crazy. :-? By the way, Its the Harley riders who wave to me way more than the crotch rocket riders. I like them for what they are not some life style. If I wasn't geezer status I would have one right now. :) |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by oldNslow on 07/05/13 at 11:05:57 Quote:
As a marketing strategy it works pretty well. They sell an awful lot of bikes in my neck of the woods - high prices and all. One thing I've always respected about HD is the company's commitment to flat track racing. You could be cynical and say that they don't make a bike that is suitable for anything else - which is true - but they have put a lot of money into that particular type of racing for a long time. Maybe even kept it alive on a national level. A mile flatrack race is pretty spectacular to watch. And an XR with lights on it would be one hell of a cruiser. |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by apache snow on 07/05/13 at 11:11:43 I love flat track racing (as a spectator) I used to go to Louisville downs KY to watch the camel pro series every year. They only had a half mile track but it was exciting. Its a shame they don't race motorcycles at Louisville downs any more. They had speedway racing close to where I live in the 70s-80s. I always liked that as well. |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by oldNslow on 07/05/13 at 12:07:10 Quote:
I used to go to Syracuse every summer when they raced there(mile). Same thing. Stopped racing there quite a few years ago. Last time I was there Kenny Roberts - I'm shown' my age here- :) took a few practice laps on a bike with the Yamaha roadrace engine of the time in it. Three cylinder two stroke. It was ungodly fast but he couldn't control it in the corners. Parked it and rode a Harley in the race. He won a race later that year on the Yamaha; I think at Indy, and the AMA promptly banned it. I heard that a few years ago he got it out and did a few demo laps on it at one of the nationals. Might have been Indy but I'm not sure. He was about 50-55 at the time. Turned in a couple of pretty fast laps dispite not having been on a mile track for years. |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by apache snow on 07/05/13 at 12:56:34 Here you go... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k8hJWKIVNs |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by oldNslow on 07/05/13 at 13:12:15 Apache, Thanks for finding that. Roberts is totally a class act. One of my heros. |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by Dave on 07/05/13 at 13:27:12 I have no problem with the manufacturer or dealers of Harleys.....they got a market and brand recognition and use it to their benefit. I have no problem with the bikes. They do what they do very well. I would love to own one for a while - but it would be hard to choose one (and pay for one). They have a lot of options that look great. (UPDATE........I would buy an XR750!) I have no problem with guys that ride Harleys and understand that there are other bikes and other riders on the road. I have a friend with a big Harley and he will ride 600 miles in a day and does not think it is anything special. He rides with other riders on other brands, helps his neighbor with his Hayabusa drag bike.....and thinks my Savage is cool. I do have a problem with the riders that believe a Harley is the only bike worth owning. The ones that just bought a bike last year, and suddenly they are the coolest thing on the road. The ones that rip off the muffers and put on straight pipes! The ones that leave their blinker on for 5 miles (Wait......I do that!). |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by arteacher on 07/05/13 at 13:45:51 1D23222E3C20214F0 wrote:
My BIL used to race enduro, flat track and speedway in the '70s. He had a Ducatti 250 speedway bike, and a Harley 360 flat track. He usually placed in the top 3 when he raced. He lost it in a corner on the Harley and went into a wall, causing lifelong damage to his back and left shoulder. He checked himself out of the hospital after 2 days,(probably causing the lifelong issues), fixed the bike and raced the next weekend. He won, and never (legally) raced anything again. He can't even ride a bike anymore. |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by gizzo on 07/05/13 at 16:36:45 I think serowbot hit the nail on the head. Over here (aus) so many Harleys are owned by new riders who just buy into an image and straight away get the "attitude" and even owning a Harley T shirt seems to make people feel qualified to run down all the other brands. As bikes they're ok, nothing special but the Hype is overrated. Harleys in Oz are way overpriced, too. Lots of "real" riders are importing low mileage current models at around half the price of a newie from the showroom. I like rounding up the big twins in the hills on my little DR250. V-Rods are cool, IMO. Buying a lifestyle is just a bit lame. |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by gerald.hughes on 07/05/13 at 19:50:22 I am a former Savage owner. I put over 50,000 miles on the machine below. I loved it, was aware of all its strengths, and weaknesses, and was sad when it finally died. http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp223/gerald_hughes/f786b226-8b38-4482-8a2e-7fa84745b455_zpse65fb000.jpg (http://s414.photobucket.com/user/gerald_hughes/media/f786b226-8b38-4482-8a2e-7fa84745b455_zpse65fb000.jpg.html) Currently, I ride the 2011 HD 883 Extra Low pictured below. I have a little over 10,000 miles on it so far, including a 2600 mile trip that I just made through California. http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp223/gerald_hughes/883_zps64e6625a.jpg (http://s414.photobucket.com/user/gerald_hughes/media/883_zps64e6625a.jpg.html) I am a little taken aback at the things I read about the 883 on this site. They certainly do not have any foundation in my own riding experience. I have always thought that there were a lot of similarities between the Savage and the 883. In thinking about the bike, I was wondering what not to like: Alloy wheels Tubeless tires (Radials standard) Drilled front brake rotor Dual piston front brake caliper Self canceling turn signals Hazard signals Throttle lock screw Electronic Speedo with 2 trip meters and clock Screw on oil filter Hydraulic lifters Fuel Injection Oil dip stick Belt drive Seat height unladen 26.8" Seat height laden 25.5" Gas tank capacity 4.5 gal Engine Torque 55 foot pounds 2013 Price $8099 |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by ZAR on 07/05/13 at 22:17:53 6F7E6F6D666B7D6061790E0 wrote:
I miss the "Downs" too. I only live an hour away and loved that race party! |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by old_rider on 07/06/13 at 00:33:15 Its all in the type of folks you ride with I think.... I see it on all sides... folks just like what they like. I've ridden quite a few different makes and models (from 73' up) and each has there pro's and con's. Its what I want or like that makes a difference to me, what do I care what joe blo says about what I ride? I ride....thats all that matters to me. Does make you wonder why folks think they way they do...I guess its just the competitiveness in each of us. 8-) My signiture tells ya what my current garage is holding....and it will change soon...the harley and honda are going...sigh.... change is good no?.... |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by oldNslow on 07/06/13 at 06:59:51 gerald.hughes wrote: Quote:
I agree. One of the reasons I was attracted to the Savage was how much it reminded me of the Sportster that I just couldn't afford. For two thousand bucks my 2006 S40 was as close as I could could get. That's a really nice looking bike BTW. |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by MMRanch on 07/06/13 at 08:31:06 Hay Generalhuges Tell me about that seat. That looks like my "Other" bike (07) but I have a two-up seat (SunDowner). Can you add a rear seat to it ? If so do the seat fasten together or is the back seat a clip and pin type ? The sundowner is "Hard as a rock" and the rear is way-to-narrow . I think I'll just keep them both till the Sportster gets "too" heavy for me , if it last that long . :) |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by gerald.hughes on 07/06/13 at 08:44:19 The seat was a Corbin. Firm, but very comfortable after the first 500-1000 miles of break-in. |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by Pine on 07/06/13 at 09:23:19 734D4C40524E4F210 wrote:
yep my next bike will be either a 883 sportster or triumph ( if I can find one) |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by arteacher on 07/07/13 at 17:33:06 The only Harly I would buy is a Cross Bones. |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by WD on 07/07/13 at 19:56:59 It was discontinued for a reason... horrible ride. Tolerable looks but a really, really poor ride quality. |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by PerrydaSavage on 07/08/13 at 00:05:41 I've ridden a few Sportsters ... like 'em a lot and is the only Harley I could actually see myself owning ... an 883 Iron would be my preferred choice ... though the Super Low is nice as well. The Motor Company does make a lot of great Bikes, but as mentioned by previous poster, too big and heavy for my needs ... and have always felt the the LS650 has a LOT of the same "charcter" as the Sportster and is one of it's attributes that will always endear the little Thumper to me! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by mpescatori on 07/08/13 at 06:31:09 I recently saw a "Sturgis" in a few pics and a little voice at the back of my head was whispering evil things... "buy one... get one... find one... ride one..." Evil, eeevil things... ;) I have to say, the Sturgis looks a lot like the Savage the way I have redecorate her http://www.suzukicycles.org/photos/suzuki-history/1986/1986_LS650_Savage_450.jpghttp://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/1991-harley-davidson-fxdb-sturgis-1.jpg I am beginning to think the Savage mimicks the Dyna a lot more than the Sportster... EDIT : fixed the link ;) |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by mpescatori on 07/08/13 at 06:31:59 PS What's NOT to like about tubeless tires, hydraulic lifters and self cancelling indicators? ::) |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by old_rider on 07/08/13 at 06:56:39 Um, the second pic didn't link for me.... just the savage |
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Title: Re: Harley question Post by Dane Allen on 07/08/13 at 11:12:03 4056415C44515C47330 wrote:
;D ;D ;D Sounds like the Raiders fan market ;D ;D ;D |
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