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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something else?
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Message started by Single_Spark on 07/02/13 at 18:35:44

Title: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something else?
Post by Single_Spark on 07/02/13 at 18:35:44

I finally got the bike idling without any obvious problems and the front brakes to work (still need to be cleaned out) and decided to take it around the block very slowly just to see how she ran. As soon as I popped it into first gear, the clutch didn't sound like it disengaged, and it died. I began adjusting the clutch cable and then realized that something wasn't right. No matter how I adjusted the cable length, the clutch lever would not return to its original position. There was complete slack through the entire traveling length of the lever.

My first thought was that the cable had stretched beyond its limit. Then I began looking at the release arm and its indicator marks. I have searched the forum for a related problem, but no one else's symptoms seemed to match mine. Here's what I found:

If I apply a little pressure (very little), this is the arm's fully down position. When I let go it stays like this.

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p641/onesinglespark85/20130702_172404_zps53d93d3b.jpg

I can pull it up slightly, let go, and it stays like this.

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p641/onesinglespark85/20130702_172411_zps728155ef.jpg

If I push it up as far as it will go, this is where it stops. When I let go, it moves back to the previous position.

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p641/onesinglespark85/20130702_172537_zps2ab6a8e3.jpg

Here is a picture of how far the cable sticks out of the cable adjuster. Does this look too long? The lever end of the cable is screwed ALL THE WAY IN TOWARDS THE LEVER.

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p641/onesinglespark85/20130702_172732_zpsa72e8ebf.jpg

It really seems like the spring inside the crankcase cover isn't providing enough downward pressure on the release arm. This was last assembled by someone else. It is possible something wasn't done right. I just wanted to get your opinions before I broke into that thing.

Thanks for your help!

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/02/13 at 19:32:59

are you saying you can move the lever on the side of the motor by hand? if you can, then most likely the clutch throw-out has broken. dont start it.

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by Oldfeller on 07/02/13 at 19:42:10

You say you did all your research already, but you don't use the rubber band method to check your "effective" pushrod length using the case marks, which is the starting point for figuring out clutch issues.

May need to go to the Table of Contents and look a little harder .....

??!! What in the world !!??

..... the "How to Adjust Your Clutch (with clutch rods explained) link isn't there in the table of Contents any more.

Rats. You'll have to do a search.

:-/

Something for the Moderators to do in their spare time, I guess.

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by Single_Spark on 07/02/13 at 20:30:19

Oldfeller, I did read that post, but this is how my clutch lever looks when it's connected :(

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p641/onesinglespark85/20130702_174713_zpsc7627d85.jpg

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by Single_Spark on 07/02/13 at 20:36:54

JOG- Yes, I can move it by hand through the range of motion in the pictures. What would the clutch throwout be referred to as in my Clymer manual?

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/02/13 at 20:55:04

JUst pull the side cover,

Lever turns shaft thru case. Shaft has paddle shaped gizmo attached. Paddle shaped gizmo presses end of rod in clutch pak.

Clutch pack jammed up? Never seen it, but Hey? Anyway, rod wont protrude.
Rod missing? Never heard of that,,

Throw-out lever busted? Seen a few of thosr,,

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by WD on 07/02/13 at 22:54:12

Run the clutch tensioner at the bars out until the gap closes, lock it down with the big ring. Then give it a pull and see if it made any difference. If it didn't help, pull the exhaust pipe and right side foot controls, take off the outer engine case and give us some pics. Clutch pack and inside the engine cover, as they were removed, do not touch the guts of either assembly until we see the as pulled pics.

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by Single_Spark on 07/07/13 at 15:43:14

Okay, so I removed my cover tday. There seems to be some freeplay between the release arm and the release cam. If I hold the arm still, I can wiggle the Cam a little bit. The arm doesn't look especially rounded, though.

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p641/onesinglespark85/20130707_153338_zps792623dd.jpg

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by Single_Spark on 07/07/13 at 15:50:16

And here it is installed.

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p641/onesinglespark85/20130707_152735_zpsbe3ccbc3.jpg

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/07/13 at 15:59:26

well,, im seriously shocked,, i really thot your throw out was busted.. now that youre in there, look at the clutch pack,, the rod pokiun out in the middle,, how much ya got there?

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by Single_Spark on 07/07/13 at 16:11:44

The rod sticks out about 7/16 of an inch. I shouldn't be able to push this rod in at all, correct? Because I can't.

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p641/onesinglespark85/20130707_160440_zps8b313990.jpg

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by Single_Spark on 07/07/13 at 16:19:50

Also, that missing tooth can't be good.

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p641/onesinglespark85/20130707_145745_zps211c9c74.jpg

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/07/13 at 16:32:13

NOw that its sittin that way, just to prove that clutch pack hadnt jhammed on that busted piece, Id grab a few bolts & slap the cover on, no gasket, no oil, no nothin,, just hook the clutch cable up & see if it can be adjusted,,dont try to disengage the clutch, dont squeeze the lever, just see if you can adjust the cable so the lever ,, heck! There it is,, the Lever!,, just slap the cover on & see if how the lever on the engine is different now, 2 or 3 bolts, no need to even torque them, just snug them down easy & see if that lever still flops up & down, dont get "Big Man" on it,, because all the pressure will be applied to just whatever bolts you put in, dont risk loading that cover up wonky,

edit

when you took the cover off, did you hear, see or feel anything that would make you believe the clutch pack was hung " disengaged" on that broken spot? can you see a sign of anything having pressed on the end of the busted spot?

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by 87 savage on 07/07/13 at 17:56:13

You have the cable adjusted for full slack on both ends. Looks like you need to adjust the cable, it is adjusted so loosely that the clutch does not disengage when the clutch lever is in. What position is the clutch release arm in with the cable attached and clutch lever in. If it's near the top line like the pic with your finger pushing up on it , then the clutch is not being disengaged by the cable. Need to adjust the cable the other way on both ends of the cable.

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/07/13 at 18:01:28

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p641/onesinglespark85/20130702_174713_zpsc7627d85.jpg

cant believe i missed that,, but then,, i cant believe someone would do that,, my bad,,

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by WD on 07/07/13 at 19:52:52

7261250 wrote:

Said it a couple days ago Justin, they must have given you the good pain meds... ;)

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/07/13 at 20:05:21

10-325 vicodin, & just happened to hit one of my "Crash Timesa" a cuopla days agol..been a rough coupla days,, hope I didnt mess that guy overe too bad.

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by Single_Spark on 07/07/13 at 21:22:27

I checked the torque on my spring bolts, and they were set really high. I readjusted them, and the clutch is closer now. It still feels wonky, though. Would the longer pushrod make a big difference?

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by verslagen1 on 07/07/13 at 22:12:07

http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p641/onesinglespark85/20130702_172537_zps2ab6a8e3.jpg

this is kinda high for the finger pressure push up test.
I think you need a longer rod.

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by Single_Spark on 07/08/13 at 11:09:24

I ordered the pushrods today. Thanks for your help!

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/08/13 at 11:42:36

to make the adjustment tighten the cable, you have to make the shroud the cable runs in " longer",, that is accomplished by backing the adjuster on the lever out, not in,,
typically, when someone adjusts something one direction & the problem gets worse, they generally stop & go the other way a while.
any time something needs adjusted & its something unfamiliar, its best to mark, or count turns, or both, on whatever youre turning. that way, you can always at least get back to " squarre 1".

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by Single_Spark on 07/12/13 at 11:46:58

I should be getting my pushrods this weekend along with a new clutch cable. Is there anything else that needs to be adjusted when I do this install, our do I just put the new rod in and install the cable?

Title: Re: Clutch adjustment, bad spring or something els
Post by WD on 07/12/13 at 12:18:54

Oil the cable really well before installing. That's the step everybody seems to forget. Don't waste money on aerosol chain/cable lube, regular motor oil works perfectly. Keep dripping it in one end until it runs out of the other end. While the bike is down, lube your throttle and rear brake cables the same way.