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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Counter steering Poll /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1372739166 Message started by Rembrandt on 07/01/13 at 21:26:06 |
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Title: Counter steering Poll Post by Rembrandt on 07/01/13 at 21:26:06 I've recently started riding with a group of older riders. My 06 Boulevard is my fourth bike. I haven't ridden in ten years, but I've never in my riding time counter steered. I become one with my faithful steed and lean into every curve and corner. The riders in my group maintain that counter-steering is the only way to ride. How many of you in this forum counter steer versus how many who ride like I do? I tried it on the long ride home yesterday with the group. We travelled about 400 miles in a twelve hour day. The counter steering not only felt awkward, but counter intuitive as well. Poll? Please weigh in on this for me. |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/01/13 at 21:30:45 Ohh, man! REally? Id Much prefer a good Ol Fashioned oil war |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by WD on 07/01/13 at 22:00:43 I'm not touching this one... took physics entirely too many years ago. |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by mhart731 on 07/01/13 at 22:17:45 I am a new rider. '03 savage is my first bike but I find myself doing both. I counter steer the light curves or to change lanes but lean in deep curves or tighter turns. |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by verslagen1 on 07/01/13 at 22:36:09 This is really to opinionated for RSD. Here's my opinion counter steering is really just maintaining your balance. you're going straight down the road, you tip towards the right, you turn to the right to bring the wheels back under you. and vice versa when tipping to the left. now here is where the egg gets before the cart... to turn, you lean to the right and you turn to the right and you use those fine straight line balance skills to keep your a$$ off the pavement. Balancing centrifugal force against gravity. counter steering is turning left to lean you over faster for the right hand turn. you probably do it already, just a lot slower and combined with body movement so you don't notice. |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by Serowbot on 07/01/13 at 23:53:06 You have always countersteered... you just weren't aware of the method you were using to initiate it... Fact is,... a bike absolutely will not turn without countersteering... You have been initiating the countersteer, by leaning, and letting the bike fall into countersteer... Realizing that this is happening can allow you to take more immediate action... bypassing the slow process of gravity overcoming inertia... Turning can become much more positive, controlled, and quick... When you lean,.. you are upsetting the balance of the bike... this (and you must think about this), will put you off the center of the tire,... and into the decreasing radius towards the edge of the tire... (imagine rolling a ball... but putting your hand slightly to the side instead of directly on top... and the ball rolls in a curve)... This is why bikes lean into curves, and cars lean out... As you lean.... and get onto the curve of the tire... the contact patch becomes wider on one side than the other... and this forces the fork to countersteer in the opposite direction... until the bike starts to fall left or right... (once the fall creates equilibrium... countersteer is over... and you adjust the bars to point in the direction of the turn... The period of countersteer is almost imperceptible, unless you know to look for it... but, once you see it.... .. it is the speed at witch you can initiate a turn... It's like being used to shooting without sights,..and suddenly having a 4x scope... You don't really have to resist doing your natural lean... just being aware that you are leaning to initiate the counterbalance will give you more control... and eventually you will start to assist lean with your arms... You don't have to change what you are doing... just think about what you are doing... you are countersteering with your body... As an experiment,... (carefully)... try to lean into a turn,.. but consciously hold the bars straight,.. or even try to turn them ... to initiate the turn...You will find it impossible... This has been tested... by welding a fork solid, and having a rider try to lean a bike to turn it... it can't turn... ... (oddly enough, a bike with fork that can only point straight or turn to the right,.. cannot turn right... I cannot even go straight, but it will go left.... ...even if you don't want it to... ;D... Basically,.. I'm saying, don't try to change how you ride... just try to study it... see what is actually happening... ... and you'll realize,.. you already do it... You just have a knowledge that can give you better control of it... |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by jcstokes on 07/02/13 at 03:18:42 Agree with Serowbot, you have been counter steering for years. If you've come back after a ten year absence it takes a while to get used to it. After twenty seven years absence I was desperately looking at the front wheel mudguard/fender as I tried to turn, feeling sick and out of control. My instructor pointed out that I wasn't to look at the front wheel and to look where I was going. I was soon ok after that. |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by Dave on 07/02/13 at 04:12:35 When you learned to ride a bicycle.....you learned how to counter steer. That is what all that bar twisting convulsive seizure looking flailing was all about....you were learning to put pressure on the bars to make the bike do what you wanted. It took a bit to learn as it is counter-intuitive. You put pressure on the left bar.....and the bike steers left.....WOH......that was weird! As an adult the first time I heard that you steer left go go left I thought they were crazy....but when I tried it I found out they were right and I had been doing it all along. If you push forward on the left bar the bike goes left...and when you pull on the left bar the bike stands up out of the left turn. You don't really move the bars....as much as you just apply pressure. There are only two tiypes of riders. Those that know they countersteer, and those that countersteer and refuse to believe it. A 100 pound rider is not gong to lean an 800 pound motorcycle around a curve.....it is countersteered! You think all that high speed road racing turning is done by leaning.....fat chance. Go try it carefully....then report back. |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by Greg on 07/02/13 at 04:31:20 I don't do either. I stop at the halfway point in a curve, get off my scooter, pull the rear end around, jump back on, and go... |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by Blinky-FSO on 07/02/13 at 05:07:53 2520272C2B21420 wrote:
LOL. Well done. Pictures? Here is a test. Approaching a right hand sweeper, push on the left bar end, pull on the right bar end; therefore pointing the front tire to the right. If the bike turns to the right, then know that God has endowed you with a special power to alter the physical laws of his universe. And if you have those powers, can I ask a favor and have you level the foundation of my house? Good hunting |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by apache snow on 07/02/13 at 06:06:40 What Serowbot and Dave said. If you get a bike around a curve you counter steered whether you knew or not. there is no other way. :) |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by ToesNose on 07/02/13 at 06:16:48 Yippee if you be on two wheels ya be counter steering. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by Pine on 07/02/13 at 06:38:44 Glad yall cleared that up... I just ride... somehow the bike goes where I want it. It took me about 3 months to get more comfortable with making "deeper" leans. Even now, I have to work at staying focused on where I am in my powerband. I want to be at higher rpms.. so when I lean down in and am going slow .. I can rev up quickly to right the bike. I have no clue what that means in terms of counter steer. PS: I tend to ride at pretty low rpms... the savage lets me do this due to its wide a$$ power band... I LOVE IT. The other problem I have with riding is a horrible habit of nearly locking my left arm. I don't realize I am doing it until my wrist and shoulder start hurting. It also makes for lousy control of the bike. Sit "down" relax the shoulders/arms, tuck in the knees and let the bike do the work. |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/02/13 at 10:48:23 youll KNOW you countersteer the day youre forced to make an emergency lane change. if the car is encroaching on you from the right, youll slam the bars toward the car, fall away from it, then steer the front wheel back under yourself, making the bike literally hop to the left.. i know this to be true, because i did it & had i not, i would have been , uhh, " merged with".. painfully. |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by Skid Mark on 07/02/13 at 19:34:04 You have no choice but to counter steer. It's something you don't think about and it can be so subtle you don't realize you do it, but you do. All the pros, here and elsewhere, confirm thins. I have played with the concept my self, on no traffic roads. There was no way I could initiate a turn without counter steering. :o |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by engineer on 07/03/13 at 06:34:49 When I started riding MCs and reading MC magazines in the late fifties nobody talked about counter steering that I can remember. First we rode bicycles then we rode motorcycles and never thought about it all that much. There was a lot of talk about throttle control and cornering. I always thought I was leaning the bike to initiate the turn but as time passed I read about counter steering and to a very limited extent I experimented a little and came to the conclusion that I had been counter steering all along, way back to my bicycle days. However, after reading Greg's post I think his method has a lot of merit and I am going to use it from now on. |
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Title: Re: Counter steering Poll Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/03/13 at 15:06:26 remember the handlebar swinging side to side while your body learned how to keep the wheels under your butt? idk about otrhers, but i never had training wheels & i learned on a road in houston texas, not dirt, not asphalt,, sea shells,, nothing but sea shells, broken, crushed, sharp, sea shells,, very, very motivating to learn to not fall... |
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