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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1372437099 Message started by Josh C on 06/28/13 at 09:31:39 |
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Title: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Josh C on 06/28/13 at 09:31:39 Well i've got 15k on my bike and i've never had the valves adjusted (or checked) so when it started making a rattley sound I assumed it was something to do with that. For a bit I thought about just selling the bike instead of paying the fortune to have it serviced, but who am I kidding, I love it (and I'm not super mechanicky). After some perusing of this site I changed that lay diagnosis to cam chain tension problems because of the location of the sound (lower) and that fact that it was not constant (rattle, then nothing, rattle then nothing). Took it to a local bike mechanic and he said he though cam chain tension as well, but his price quotes were way different than I expected. This is labor only: 180 for valve adjustment, spark plug change and oil change 120 for cam chain replacement both of these will have parts added. I would've thought the cam chain change would be quite a bit more work. Are these reasonable? That valve adjustment seemed high and cam chain change low to me... Thanks Josh |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Josh C on 06/28/13 at 09:32:44 also I'm leaking a tiny bit of oil. Is this conceivably due to valves needing adjustment? |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Borracho on 06/28/13 at 09:47:37 I was quoted over $300 for a valve adjustment. |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/13 at 09:58:10 you can do it yourself, buy tools & save $$$$,, & yea,, thats too high. |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Serowbot on 06/28/13 at 10:02:06 Any time you take your bike to a mechanic,.. you're getting screwed... You're also rarely getting a proper job... It's the price you pay for letting someone touch your bike that doesn't love it as much as you do... ...(we've seen several blown side cases as a result of backward filter installations,... also stripped threads,.. chipped fins, etc...)... ... all at ridiculously high hourly rates... Savages are not a priority in shops... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by oldNslow on 06/28/13 at 10:03:26 62696B6965786A080 wrote:
No. I think your questioning the labor costs is correct. Ask the guy straight out what his hourly labor rate is, and if he's ever actually worked on a savage. There is no way an oil change, spark plug change and valve adjustment will take longer than replacing the cam chain. And read this before you do anything else. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1191167029 |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Dave on 06/28/13 at 10:09:43 The $ 180 seems high for what is being done. The $ 120 is cheap for the extra work required to do the cam chain work....but when added to the $ 120 ....the $ 400 for everything is probably justifiable.... if it is an actual shop with overhead, insurance and their work is guaranteed by them (they stand behind their work). If the leak is the infamous rubber plug.....that can be fixed during the cam chain repair for almost no extra labor and a $ 10 part cost. You might not need a cam chain......if you can use the Verslagen tensioner update. |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Blinky-FSO on 06/28/13 at 12:01:19 7F697E637B6E63780C0 wrote:
I will need to take exception with this broad of a statement. I have known and worked with many mechanics (auto and bike) that take pride in their work. Sure, there are a bunch of scoundrels out there, but don't condemn them all for the actions of some. It is not easy to understand or accept what it takes to make a dollar doing this work. The shop space, lifts, tools, wages, insurance, parts inventory, utilities, add up in a hurry. Just my two cents from the son and former employee of the owner of a six bay independent auto repair shop from 1966 to 1994. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Pine on 06/28/13 at 13:29:31 I paid to have the valves adjusted as well as the first carb rebuild. I did so because I wanted to ( hopefully) know what the bike should be like when properly done. I was well pleased with the quality of work. however.. it was very expensive. OVERLY so IMHO... But about on par with what you were quoted. I strongly suspect these are just "standard labor charges" ie rebuilt carb $240.. I was told a 4 carb Honda was the same price as my 1 carb savage... $240... really? So there you go. I still plan on using shops for some things. Never a simple oil change.. or spark plug. The Verslagy.. not so sure I want to tackle that. I am definatly paying someone to put on the new tires.. |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by apache snow on 06/28/13 at 13:45:31 I have been doing my own mechanic work for over 50 years. heck with all the money I have saved over the years, I ought to be rich. :-? |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Super Thumper on 06/28/13 at 16:21:32 Josh C. I think the labor charges are backwards here - $120 sounds in the ballpark for the valve adjustment, spark plug & oil change. $300 is more like it for the cam chain replacement. PLUS parts. Here is what I would charge for the same work so you can use this a a reference. My shop labor rate is $49.95 an hour. To adjust the valves & change the spark plug you need to remove the driver's seat and the gas tank...NOT a big deal. Valve adjustment, Oil & filter change & new spark plug...1.5 Hrs. labor $74.93 --- Spark plug - $4.95, Oil (Shell Rotella T) & NEW filter - $19.95. Total $99.83 To replace the cam chain you need to drain the oil and remove the clutch cover to get access to the cam drive gear...this needs to be removed to remove the cam chain. To access the camshaft gear the rocker arm cover must be removed. The rocker arm cover cannot be removed with the engine in the frame - there isn't enough clearance under the top frame rail. I won't go into detail here but next time you look at your Savage imagine what has to be removed, unbolted, etc. to get that engine out of the frame. FYI: there are some folks who say that you can unbolt the engine and lean it out of the frame on the magneto cover side while you remove the rocker arm cover and cam chain. This assumes you have another mechanic who can stand there holding the engine for you while all this work is being done...assuming the magneto cover does not get scratched or otherwise damaged while that engine is leaning out of the frame. Not practical since now you are paying for TWO mechanics at $49.95 per hour each. I have a steel cart with a custom made engine stand to hold the engine firmly and safely so I can work on them. Parts listing: NEW cam chain: $119.95 NEW Oil filter and Shell Rotella T Oil: $19.95 Clutch cover gasket $14.95 Misc. solvents, sealers, cleaners etc. $9.95 Total parts: $164.80 - This assumes that your cam chain tensioner, cam chain guides, camshaft, cylinder head cam bearings, camshaft end plug etc. are all in good shape. Total Labor - 6 hrs @ $49.94 hr - $299.70 Total: $464.50 I use CRC gasket remover...it is Great STUFF, spray some on that gasket, let it sit for about 10 minutes ans it comes off with little effort. Thicker or badly dried and stuck gaskets may require you do this twice bit still it is easy. There have been a few nightmare scenarios where I have found valve adjuster cover bolts so chewed up I couldn't get them off and had to drill them out. Of course there have been a few broken bolts and screws as well. I have a collection of hardened Allen head fasteners that when I find chewed up Phillips head screws or bolts I replace them with quality Allen head ones. The most common ones I replace are: Carb flange bolts (Phillips), valve cover adjustment bolts(hex 5 point), decompression lever bracket bolts(Phillips). These almost always get chewed up because they are made of soft CHEAP material and removing them when they are stuck can be a problem, even when using an impact driver to remove stuck Phillips head bolts they sometimes break off. I hope this helps. |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Cloudy on 06/28/13 at 17:13:44 243A333F313E223938560 wrote:
I recently replaced the cam chain in my wifes S40. Did not remove the engine from the frame. The rocker cover came off just fine, unbolted top gear from cam shaft and slipped the old chain out. |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by SALB on 06/28/13 at 19:11:58 Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the oil change be part of the Cam Chain replacement since you drain the oil to do it anyway? :-/ :-* Also, do the shops have any sort of flat rate set by the manufacturer like auto shops use? |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Super Thumper on 06/28/13 at 20:29:41 My rocker cover won't come off with the engine in the frame ---2001 savage. |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/13 at 20:58:15 yes it will.. describe exactly what youre doing |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Serowbot on 06/28/13 at 22:40:54 657B727E707F637879170 wrote:
I've done it on 3 Savages... |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by HondaLavis on 06/29/13 at 01:49:18 To be fair; the Clymer says there may be some differences in frame clearance across bikes, and that some savages may not be able to have the valve cover removed in frame. However, experience says otherwise. I don't suppose you'd want to take the valve cover off just to show us how you get stuck. :P |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/29/13 at 06:36:58 if youll be specific about what youre doing, odds are we can help. |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by verslagen1 on 06/29/13 at 08:27:39 done it on a few savages too. takes a twist and a tip, got to be good with those wire ring puzzles. you can get a little more clearance... Clarence if you pull the engine mounting bolts and let the engine drop in front. |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Super Thumper on 06/30/13 at 08:46:46 Sneaky...but effective...thanks for the tip!! :) |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Super Thumper on 06/30/13 at 08:54:18 Even with the top engine mount removed from the rocker cover the cover won't clear the camshaft gear. Going to try Verslaven's idea today....need to change another cam chain. The bike in question has forward controls on it so I need to remove them also but still easier than pulling the engine from the frame! |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Serowbot on 06/30/13 at 09:40:20 I've never had to loosen lower motor mounts... I did do good bit of turning and wiggling to clear the cam area... ...( once you do get the angle right,.. make careful mental note of that position... you'll need it to reassemble)... and it's trickier, because you'll have the Hondabond spread on there... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Super Thumper on 07/01/13 at 08:30:36 Verslaven's trick worked...after removing the two front engine mount bolts the engine settled about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch until it is sitting on the lower frame rails....this gave me the needed clearance to remove the cover with about 1/4" of room to clear the cam gear....thanks Verslaven!!! :) FYI....this took me about three hours to complete. This also makes it much easier to re-install the rocker cover with the sealer on it...the extra clearance allowed me to slip it over cam gear without having to twist, turn, wiggle, etc. it in place and risk messing up the sealer. Thanks again!! FYI I just installed Verslaven's drilled brake rotor on this bike and it looks GREAT! Well worth the $$$. :) |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by jcgribks on 07/01/13 at 13:34:59 I just bought a 2009 S40 with 750 miles on it for my wife. I decided to go ahead and take it into the local dealer (Olathe Suzuki) to have the oil changed and a new spark plug installed. They also said that they'd look the bike over for me. Original quote was $75 total, picked bike up and it was $148. I complained and he said it was $75 per hour even though the shop ticket said $75 total quote. He also said they added air to the tires. Woopie!!! I thought I'd been screwed. Called another dealer here in KC 3 days later and was told $60 for an oil change and he didn't remember if the tank had to be removed for the plug changed or not so he quoted me $60 for the plug change too. So I guess Olathe suzuki had to remove the tank to put a new plug in mine. |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Dave on 07/01/13 at 15:43:59 424B4F5A414A435B280 wrote:
For a mechanic familiar with the Savage.....an hour is plenty of time to change the oil and do the spark plug. Yes the tank has to be removed for the spark plug change....as getting the chrome side cover off requires removing the tank. If you have never done this before and need to read the manual while you do it......it probably does take 2 hours. |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/01/13 at 21:22:03 Until ya do the spark plug door mod,, then the tank stays on,, I only know of one guy who can afford to own a savage & not do the maintenance, but he does the maintenance,, |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by Super Thumper on 07/02/13 at 09:25:18 I took the chrome covers off my Savage...I like the way the engine looks without them. Also no more removing the tank when I want to change a spark plug. I am experimenting with several different spark plugs (Pulse plugs, Energy Star, etc.) to see which one my Savage likes best. |
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Title: Re: Can y'all verify that I'm not getting screwed? Post by srinath on 07/02/13 at 09:39:20 3B3032303C2133510 wrote:
Hell no. This is the rubber cap sitting on top og the bolt that is next to the exhaust port. Little bit of oil is the bike's middle name. Ignore it. Lotta bit of oil = replace the rubber cap with a solid one - not the stupid hollow one. Cool. Srinath. |
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