SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> The Cafe >> rethinking the ICE
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1372300974

Message started by Pine on 06/26/13 at 19:42:54

Title: rethinking the ICE
Post by Pine on 06/26/13 at 19:42:54

http://www.wimp.com/combustionengine/

Title: Re: rethinking the ICE
Post by Trippah on 06/26/13 at 19:59:30

amazing Stuff...

Title: Re: rethinking the ICE
Post by SALB on 06/26/13 at 20:10:58

High Tech! Now not just air/fuel ratio and timing are adjustable. I can just imagine being able to mimic multiple camshafts at different RPMs.

Title: Re: rethinking the ICE
Post by gerald.hughes on 06/26/13 at 20:27:26

Now that is one of the most interesting and innovative developments that I have seen in engines in many many a year.

Title: Re: rethinking the ICE
Post by Serowbot on 06/27/13 at 00:29:57

Interesting,... but too little, too late...
The combustion engine is dead...

Once we get over our fascination with batteries, the future will be air power...
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq8aZVLpf-c[/media]

Title: Re: rethinking the ICE
Post by Oldfeller on 06/27/13 at 04:05:12

I liked his concept of turning off the fuel injectors during downhill deceleration and using the engine as an effective air brake -- then saving the pressurized air in a tank to use as 1) supercharger air for greater hp when needed and 2) run the entire engine cycle as an air engine at slower speeds (city/parking lot speeds).

This engine would also be able to go from 4 cylinder to 3 cylinder to 2 cylinder effortlessly by holding the valves open and turning off the fuel injectors. Gas mileage boosts would have to come with such a smart engine, real serious gas mileage boosts.

Such an engine could swing effortlessly between supercharged fast acceleration mode to high efficiency "drop a cylinder or two" flat surface cruise mode, to airpump decel mode when going down a mountain to airmotor only when creeping around inside a parking deck.

AND, once the technology became widespread, motors get smaller and much less mechanically complicated.

Also, "any fuel engines" become possible on an intentionally high compression 20:1 engines since you are direct injecting the fuel in a controlled fashion on each power stroke it could be anything that pours and flows at your ambient storage temperature.

One now has to ask how long term reliable this valve actuator solenoid thingy will be since you will have 8 to 16 of the little buggers to deal with .....

;)

"Honey, the engine light came on again --- yes, it was the little valve symbol again ---- no, I didn't save the receipts from the last time, I gave them to you. No, check inside the glovebox, if I put them anywhere it was there."

Title: Re: rethinking the ICE
Post by LANCER on 06/27/13 at 07:47:08

Fascinating stuff with all sorts of possibilities.
The LS650 engine would be transformed.
Now we just need to get the freaking exhaust ports in the head fixed.

One downside to this though is that it would become a computer-controlled fuel injected engine...there goes the "simple" aspect of it.

Title: Re: rethinking the ICE
Post by Dave on 06/27/13 at 07:58:52

What would I do without the little tic....tic.....tic......tic.....tak......tic to keep me company on my ride?
Could I get a little recording of the rockers and valves to play in my headphones?

You might be able to get rid of the throttle butterfly completely in an engine with this valve system. You could just control the engine speed by how far and long the valves open. Some early stationary engines would limit how far the intake valves would open to control engine speed. THe intake valves were suction valves and the governer would have a ramp device that controlled how far the valves would be sucked open on the iintake stroke.

Title: Re: rethinking the ICE
Post by old_rider on 06/27/13 at 09:06:13

Both great ideas, but how much you wanna bet they never get them incorporated into everyday life? The air engine was tested in an auto? I'd like to know how it measured up.
The air valve engine, 30% increase in mpg, horsepower and less emissions. Looks like the big 3 got some worrying to do. To bad it won't be used in my lifetime.

Title: Re: rethinking the ICE
Post by verslagen1 on 06/27/13 at 09:27:59

70535B595A53535A4D3F0 wrote:

"Honey, the engine light came on again --- yes, it was the little valve symbol again ---- no, I didn't save the receipts from the last time, I gave them to you. No, check inside the glovebox, if I put them anywhere it was there."

Mr. Goodwrench - "Sir, The computer says you've been running on 2 cylinders for the past 6 months... didn't you notice the light? or the lack of pick up? this is an 6 cylinder you know.

Title: Re: rethinking the ICE
Post by Pine on 06/27/13 at 10:39:13

786B7C7D626F696B603F0E0 wrote:

[quote author=70535B595A53535A4D3F0 link=1372300974/0#5 date=1372331112] "Honey, the engine light came on again --- yes, it was the little valve symbol again ---- no, I didn't save the receipts from the last time, I gave them to you. No, check inside the glovebox, if I put them anywhere it was there."

Mr. Goodwrench - "Sir, The computer says you've been running on 2 cylinders for the past 6 months... didn't you notice the light? or the lack of pick up? this is an 6 cylinder you know.[/quote]

Response" err no.... its still faster than my wife's Prius"

Title: Re: rethinking the ICE
Post by Charon on 06/27/13 at 13:43:52

Interesting concept. Most of the ideas have been around for decades. Individual valve actuation has usually had the problem not only of valve inertia, but of the force required to open the exhaust valve against residual combustion pressure in the cylinder at the end of the power stroke. Controlling engine power by altering intake valve timing and duration has been done, and as said it allows the throttle butterfly to be eliminated. Shutting off fuel during throttle overrun is common on fuel injected systems, primarily because if no fuel is injected there is no exhaust pollution. Disabling cylinders during periods of low power demand has been done for many years, too, although sometimes depending on how it is done there can be problems with engine roughness or uneven heating. The idea of using engine compression as a brake is the essence of compression braking on Diesels, with the exception that a Diesel compression brake just dumps the compressed air into the atmosphere instead of storing it in a tank. Matter of fact, some of the old steam locomotives could be set up to inhale ambient air instead of steam and compress it into a receiver, allowing the engine to act as a brake (and get mighty hot, too). I would like to see more information on the air/oil valve actuator, in particular information about what controls it.

Edited to add: I'd also like to know whether it only opens the valves against spring pressure, like a cam, or whether it also pulls the valves shut like Ducati's Desmodromic system. If it only opens them, it needs more force to act against the springs. If it also closes them, it has to be double acting.

Title: Re: rethinking the ICE
Post by mpescatori on 06/29/13 at 05:05:35

The compressed air actuation is a good idea, but it's also... wrong, i.e. it is a good idea actuated in the wrong way.

You want valves that open/shut at will with no springs involved?

Easy Peasy. All you need is a coil wound around the springs and DC to go thropugh the coil one way or the other, and presto!
>magnetically operated springs!<

You won't have to worry about compressed air tanks, air compressors, airtight seals etc.
Also, air has its own inertia, that's why we have "valve overlap" in high revving high performance engines.

Magnetic fields have ZERO inertia.
All you will need are two wires from the ECU to each valve, and they will operate from 1 rpm to radio wave flutter.

Think about it. ;)

Title: Re: rethinking the ICE
Post by Charon on 06/29/13 at 06:35:55

34293C2A3A382D362B30590 wrote:

Electric solenoid valve actuation is the method usually tried, and it has not proven workable - or it would be in use. It is true that magnetic fields have no inertia (although they have an electronic analog), but the mechanical parts which must be moved (the valves) DO have inertia and will not move instantly. Solenoids which will move a valve against the pressure of the valve springs become rather large and power-hungry, which presents the difficulty of finding a place for them. Add the residual pressure against the exhaust valve at the end of the power stroke and the solenoid gets bigger. If the valve springs are removed, the solenoid needs two coils - one to open and one to close the valve. Unless the solenoid core is permanently magnetized reversing the current through the solenoid will have no effect.

It might be possible to use solenoid valves to control hydraulic pressure, which in turn will actuate the engine valves. This looks to me to be what the compressed air does in the video, though I cannot be sure. If so, the engine computer has to control the compressed air, no doubt by an electrically controlled valve of some sort. If the compressed air actuates the valve itself, I can see no reason for the oil supply to the actuator. There seem to be some "unanswered questions."

Title: Re: rethinking the ICE
Post by verslagen1 on 06/29/13 at 08:12:57

We already have a solenoid operated exhaust valve
imagine having one of the those for each valve.
and all it does is crack open the valve, not full throw.

probably reorient the valves pointing straight down
so a stuck valve would just get a little assistance from the piston.