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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed. /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1372046534 Message started by TheSaxon on 06/23/13 at 21:02:14 |
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Title: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed. Post by TheSaxon on 06/23/13 at 21:02:14 Hey buds, I have an 87 savage that i've been working on over the winter. For whatever reason I keep reading about people going up to 90 MPH and my sled is peaking at about 60. Not a fun ride. It's a 4 speed and as i've read they are supposed to be better on the top end than the 5 speeds. Or i guess that could be a matter of opinion but i'm still seriously confused about why my bike is over 20 MPH slower than these posts i keep reading about top speed. Sorry if i'm kicking a dead horse here i've searched and haven't found much on the subject. Anyone that could shed some light on this would be greatly appreciated. Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by verslagen1 on 06/23/13 at 21:24:47 tell us what you've been doing and what state it was in when you got it. |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/23/13 at 21:36:05 Sure. I live in Boise, ID. I've had her since the snow started. All the work i have done is cosmetic and wiring. The guy that had her before me put a pod on and i'm not sure if it's been rejetted or not. But would the jet really make the difference on 20+ mph? Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by savagerider87 on 06/23/13 at 21:48:39 I also have an 87 with a 4 speed, and It tops out at about 80 on the highway and it sounds like the head is gonna fly off at that speed. my jets are stock, but i do have a sporty muffler on it. sounds like theres some tweaking to do on yours .... could be altitude difference too, you might wanna check out the jets in the carb. good luck :) |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/23/13 at 21:52:41 And this is why i'm so confused. I don't see how the jets could effect the bikes top speed that substantially. After all the work i've put into this bike i'd be really sad to have to sell her just because I can't ride her faster than 55 and wouldn't even be able to ride on the darned mountain roads. Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by clearush on 06/23/13 at 21:55:06 The pod filter most likely has an inner lip on it that is blocking the port on the top of the carb intake, this limits your top speed. I had this problem myself. found the thread - http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1347609265 |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/23/13 at 21:58:06 The pipe is an old BSA pipe i was told. I am assuming it was off of a gold star. Any other pertinent information I'm missing? Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/23/13 at 21:59:00 What was your solution clearush? Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by savagerider87 on 06/23/13 at 21:59:19 whats the mileage? jw and by pod what do u mean? larger air filter? |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/23/13 at 22:02:19 Cheap ass pod. Such as http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-54mm-New-universal-Air-Filter-For-Motorcycle-Honda-Kawasaki-Suzuki-Yamaha-/321145881284?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ac5c942c4&vxp=mtr Mileage says 15000. The tank is stock so i'm assuming that is the correct mileage. Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by verslagen1 on 06/23/13 at 22:02:38 pods can screw you up bad if you don't know what you're doing. some picts of your setup will help. |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by clearush on 06/23/13 at 22:03:22 Cavi Mike actually brought it up http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1347609265 I cut my cheap one and then ordered a different filter to use. |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by savagerider87 on 06/23/13 at 22:08:23 303F36322126203B530 wrote:
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/23/13 at 22:09:00 Sure I can take some pictures of the setup tomorrow when there is light out. The current pictures I have don't show the carb/pod setup. What filter did you go with exactly clear? Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by clearush on 06/23/13 at 22:17:11 its in that thread |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/23/13 at 22:17:28 Nevermind I saw your post on this thread there clearush. I will check that out tomorrow. Although i just read your post about going 70. My bike at 60 is reving so high i think my teeth are going to rattle out. I did clean the garb over the winter but I guess i could do it again. Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by verslagen1 on 06/23/13 at 22:29:21 take a peek at your jets and lets us know what they are. and, it's not uncommon to get the spring in the slide wrong. |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by clearush on 06/23/13 at 22:32:01 After fixing that issue though I have topped out 91 before a curve on a super windy day on a short straight patch. That 70 was WOT and it wouldn't give any more. This is with 5 speed. As for the vibes the more you ride the more intune you get with the bike and the vibes seem different. Every time I'm off more than a week for rain and stuff I have to get my feel back for the vibes at high speed. |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/23/13 at 22:35:03 I have no clue what that means verslagen but i will check out the jets tomorrow in the light and let you know what i see. And clear i'm far more concerned about the darn engine blowing up than the fear of going fast.. the bike sounds like a insane squirell at about 55+ Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by savagerider87 on 06/23/13 at 22:38:51 verslagen is talking about the spring inside the carb that controls the amount of air going into the carb its the same thing as the throttle plate on a butterfly carb. it sits inside the carb on the metal slide that closes the air inlet on the carb |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/23/13 at 22:39:39 Alright I will study up and get on it tomorrow in the light. Thanks for the help guys. Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by perajani on 06/23/13 at 23:00:08 I have a ´88 with 4 speed. had the same problem, just going bearly over 60. But I could "feel" that the engine was lacking fuel on top speed, due torgue was not constant. So I changed to raptor... Now I am able to do almost 80 and torgue is complete different througout the range. So If cone is not the reason, better check this one. |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by Boogieman on 06/23/13 at 23:26:40 hmm... when you take the top of the carb off and remove that weird slide assembly, the two jets u see are air jets. I believe the pilot air jet is a 47 and the main air jet is like a 230. the larger Jets have the number on top and the smaller pilot jets have it written on the side. anyway the fuel Jets are on the bottom of the carb, like where the whole bowl and float assembly is. so that weird slide assembly is a whole thing in and of itself. if you look down the center there are two screws holding down a plate (take extra care not to strip them). underneath that place is a spacer, an e-clip, a washer,a spring, and the jet neddle. if the washer between the spring and e-clip is not the right size or there isn't one, the spring can bind up on the e-clip. take some pictures so we can see what's going on. |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by Gyrobob on 06/24/13 at 08:41:44 A 650cc motor trying to breath through a puny filter like that is like try to run a mile while breathing through a straw. Just from surface area alone, that "filter" has maybe 1/10 of the filtering area of the stock paper filter. IOW, you need a much larger filter. Also you need a larger filter because this is a single cylinder motor. Four-cylinder motors can get by with smaller filters (and mufflers) because the flow is more constant, while the Savage flow is in individual gulps. |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/24/13 at 12:14:57 Thanks very much guys. I've never really done all this alone so i'm trying like hell to study up and try and figure it out. I really appreciate all the help. What filter would you recommend Gyro? seems like my pod does infact have that huge lip on it that i'll try to carve away in the meantime. And thank you Boogie for that write up bud. It's much needed. I'll take a picture of the pod and carb here in a few minutes and post it up after i throw it back on. Saxon P.S. Here's a picture of her as of now. Currently chopping up a trailer fender to bolt on a shorty fender for the back. http://https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/165493_3207891678537_217194163_n.jpg |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/24/13 at 15:33:34 Of course it hasn't stopped dumping rain all day for me to get out and take some pictures. Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by Boogieman on 06/24/13 at 16:29:51 haha ya go figure huh. I like your bike man, it looks a lot like mine. actually it gives me some ideas on how to make mine better. specifically the tank. I have like a jet black Sportster tank and it kinda looks retarded. now that I see what a savage tank wud look like, because our bikes are so similar in style, I definitely need a savage tank. also, your seat is bent up in the back way more than mine, which is good because when I get up to like 90mph I have nothing to brace my rump against,, gotta hold on for dear life. |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/24/13 at 19:05:19 Thanks man. I do leather work so I just stripped the seat and threaded and stapled it up with some scraps i had laying around. Came out alright I've been staring at some of the solo seats people have made up on this forum but I could see how the bend would make it alot more comfortable. Other than the fact it's rigid with no darn springs under the seat. haha. I cut up the rubber on the pod to make room for that breather on the top of carb intake. We'll see how much of a difference that makes tomorrow Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by Boogieman on 06/24/13 at 19:22:42 Oh ya, u do leather? I used to do leather and then I blew my arms out. but it would be nice to get back into it after they heal. check out my portfolio, you might get a kick outta some of the leather work. http://society6.com/timflora there is two pages, click "more" in the upper right hand corner to view the other page. Alright enough off-topic nonsense :) |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/24/13 at 20:11:01 Hell yeah man. The dye job on those masks is killer. I'll post up some pictures in the morning. pretty much tore up the entire pod making a viable port on the top. We'll see how much that does. Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/25/13 at 16:14:09 Alright so of course it's dumping again today. The sun came out for about 5 minutes and snuck my chance in to take some pictures and try out the pod modification on a little around the block ride. So at first I didn't notice any difference with the cut away on the pod for the breather until about a quarter mile the darn thing dropped out for a second and then proceeded to do the same thing numerous other times until i got home. I don't really know how to explain what i mean by "dropped out" other than it sounded and felt like the bike was just about to die. This happened at very low rpm and when i was first starting to throttle up from either a stopped position or when shifting down to take a corner. The exact same thing happend when the pod fell completely off one night accept then the throttling up did absolutely nothing with the pod not on. I'm assuming this is from the carb getting so much more air now? I could fix the pod back up but then the ring that the pod itself sits in will block that breather on the top of the carb intake. This is a tuning issue yeah? Here are some pictures of the pod. Pretty cramped in there but i did the best i can without tearing apart the entire box. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/Dakineriddem/IMG_0382.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/Dakineriddem/IMG_0385.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/Dakineriddem/IMG_0383.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/Dakineriddem/IMG_0381.jpg Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/25/13 at 16:45:54 Here's another hum dinger.. I'm looking up petcocks and i'm having a hard time figuring out what a stock petcock even looks like. The petcock that was on the bike when I got her looks exactly like the raptor petcock. After reading this it appears I already have a raptor petcock. Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/25/13 at 16:54:43 This is what I was referring to http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1340021926/1 Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by Boogieman on 06/25/13 at 17:53:07 i have no clue what a "pod" is, nor am I sure that my rambling will help you... but that's never stopped me before. Apparently, and I hope the big thumpers will correct me if i'm steering you the wrong way, there is a multitude of nonsense that will make your bike do strange things. since our bikes are kind of similar, and mine runs amazing (thank goodness for the big thumpers on this site) i have posted a picture of mine just as a plane visual of the types of different setups that work. First, I do not have a raptor petcock, In fact I have no idea what kind of petcock it is,, But the important thing to note is that there is no vacuum connection on it. I plugged that little vacuum hose at the carburetor. Secondly, With the k&n cone filter and the Jardine exhaust she is breathing pretty freely. I believe this setup or something similar is the way to go. Thirdly, I've gone through the carburetor with a fine tooth comb like 6 or 7 times,, getting familiar with it, playing with the whole jet needle white spacer mod deal, and messing with the Jets to find the right combo. I believe this is necessary to make the connections mentally between how your bike is running and what physical modifications have been made. for the longest time I could not get up to freeway speed for more than a mile without it dying due to gas starvation because my bro that had it before me messed with the Jets incorrectly. Most recently my bike ran horrible at low rpm and even had to be push started (thanks to Dane for being a super human with super mutant strength). It turned out to be a bad regulator. it took some troubleshooting with verslagen1 to get that straightened out (thnx versy). Just some stuff to think about. Don't fret, we will get it straitend out. |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by Gyrobob on 06/25/13 at 18:09:23 The Saxon said, "...it sounded and felt like the bike was just about to die. ... I'm assuming this is from the carb getting so much more air now?" With that small filter, and the lessened filter area, the carb is getting LESS air now. Or, If the carb is getting the same amount of air, the air getting through is not being filtered very well. It's just physics. For a given filtering effectiveness, you can not reduce the surface area of the filter without restricting the flow of air. |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/25/13 at 18:14:51 Stop copying my bike bro.. haha. Man I love you guys.. sorry for being such a nub. You have a pod filter. Just an aftermarket filter that is small and sticks on your carb. At least to my understanding that's what people call them. I will have to figure out an easy thing to plug up that open port with. Someone had said the little caps that plug the battery holes but don't know how the hell i'll find one of those by itself. Any other ideas? Man i'm lost. Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/25/13 at 18:16:25 On top of this there's no telling what the hell the guy did to the carb before me. he had this pod on it when I got it.. it's never had any problems running. It just seems to top out at about 55. Hence my utter confusion. Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by Gyrobob on 06/25/13 at 18:44:33 3509043200190E0F610 wrote:
On a day that is not very dusty, go out to a stretch of road where you can do a full throttle run in top gear from maybe 40 to 60 with the filter on. Then do the same thing with the filter off, and see if anything changes. If what I am saying is true, it'll run a lot better. If nothing changes, it'll just prove, once again, that I don't know everything. |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by Boogieman on 06/25/13 at 18:48:17 There ya go!! See, i told you the big thumpers know how to troubleshoot. Then again, maybe your to fat for your bike ;D |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/25/13 at 19:09:31 And more confusion. I removed the metal plate that the actual pod sits in that restricts the pod from even trying to recieve air to the breather on the top of the carb. You can see what i'm talking about here http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1347609265 How could it be getting less air now? I just took a snap of what the filter looks like inside.. I literally just cut out a slot. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/Dakineriddem/IMG_0386.jpg So like I said this pod actually fell off one day and what it did was basically the same thing that was happening when i took her around the block with the new pod accept it literally wouldn't go at all.. not sound bogged out for a second on starting up the throttle. Throttle did next to nothing... stopped and looked at the bike and saw the pod was off, re attatched it and was on my way. It all sounds like this is all in the carb but it still dumbfounds me the difference in going 80 or 55 is all in a tiny pin hole. Then again i don't know jack. Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by Boogieman on 06/25/13 at 20:09:30 Breather on top of the carb? you mean those two little hoses that are vents for the bowl on the bottom of the carb? i just shove those up into the spine of the frame. Seriously man, let's dig into that carb. And just go in and hack all of the restricting stuff out of the way and get a k&n in there. And yes those jets with their tiny little pin holes make a big difference. |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/25/13 at 20:23:15 I already ordered a new filter. This was just something I tried while I wait you know? Been dumping rain for days now and I don't want to mess with the carb in between downpours. And no I mean the little port on the top of your carb that these pods I have restrict. You would have to read that thread I posted to see what I'm talking about maybe? I have found a bunch of resources on this site for fooling with the carb.. I'll be diving into it as soon as the sun comes out. I figure that's what vars is waiting for. Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by clearush on 06/25/13 at 20:55:35 One other thing to check the hose with the bolt on the right side of the carb is blocking off a vacuum line if that line is cracked or leaks the bike will run horribly. I had the cap I put on dry rot off and cause my bike to run erratically for a bit. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/Dakineriddem/IMG_0381.jpg |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by WD on 06/25/13 at 21:04:28 Either dump your airbox and get a big enough K&N, or go to a UNI brand foam slip on filter. That looks a lot like an Emgo knock-off you have on it now. Pure junk, trust me, I used to turn customers away from them all the time. They may look decent, but they are so restrictive that you'll damage the engine. Stock airbox and paper element on mine, oversized jets right now, basically open exhaust (legal where I live)... It'll lift the front tire off the ground w/o breaking a sweat. The Mikuni BS40 that our bikes come with used to be a kit upgrade for Sportsters... you just have to let the carb inhale as much as the engine demands. |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/25/13 at 21:09:42 Hell yeah thanks for the input WD. Got a new filter on the way. Might end up checking out the salvage and the dirtbike shop tomorrow as that's all there is in my town to quicken it up. Knowing my luck and knowing how retarded the guy had the bike wired, the jets probably are jacked up. Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by ToesNose on 06/26/13 at 04:35:38 272A2A222C2028242B450 wrote:
Hey Boogieman if your petcock has no vacuum connection it's definitely not stock and most likely a Raptor/Raptor knock off. If not your tank was modified to fit another petcock or you somehow found another direct fit petcock! :D |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by ToesNose on 06/26/13 at 07:18:18 ROFL ok I'm imposing a new rule on myself, if I get on the forums and read before my coffee I'm no longer allowing myself to post till I return later post caffeine :D Thanks for the PM Boogieman telling me that you don't have a stock tank.....next time please just post here and put me in my proper place by embarrassment ;D (to slightly redeem myself I posted after reading the petcock post, but prior to looking at the pic post heh) |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by WD on 06/26/13 at 09:23:26 VS800 petcock is also manual and a direct fit, It just costs a ton of money. ;) |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/26/13 at 16:02:21 Went around today looking for a new filter and the best I found was another emgo that had the same darn lip as mine. Guess i'm waiting for my filter to arrive. Could someone please do me a favor and post a picture of the stock savage petcock? I keep finding nothing but muddled versions of one with a fat nob or one that looks exactly like the raptor. Also i've read the original doesn't have an off position? Hence why i believe mine is a raptor. Saxon |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by 87 savage on 06/26/13 at 16:42:36 7E424F794B5245442A0 wrote:
Here you go... Photo from SavageGregs "The Motorcycle Companion" |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by 87 savage on 06/26/13 at 16:53:40 And here's the Raptor: |
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Title: Re: I am utterly confused about my bikes top speed Post by TheSaxon on 06/26/13 at 17:21:25 Sure as shite I guess the guy did install a raptor. Just about the only thing he did that made any sense. Thanks man. Saxon |
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