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Message started by Midnightrider on 06/19/13 at 10:39:07

Title: Edward Snowden
Post by Midnightrider on 06/19/13 at 10:39:07
Would you be willing to give up what Edward Snowden has given up?  He has given up his high paying job, his home, his girlfriend, his family, his future and his freedom just to expose the monolithic spy machinery that the U.S. government has been secretly building to the world.  He says that he does not want to live in a world where there isn’t any privacy.  He says that he does not want to live in a world where everything that he says and does is recorded.  Thanks to Snowden, we now know that the U.S. government has been spying on us to a degree that most people would have never even dared to imagine.  Up until now, the general public has known very little about the U.S. government spy grid that knows almost everything about us.  But making this information public is going to cost Edward Snowden everything.  Essentially, his previous life is now totally over.  And if the U.S. government gets their hands on him, he will be very fortunate if he only has to spend the next several decades rotting in some horrible prison somewhere.  There is a reason why government whistleblowers are so rare.  And most Americans are so apathetic that they wouldn’t even give up watching their favorite television show for a single evening to do something good for society.  Most Americans never even try to make a difference because they do not believe that it will benefit them personally.  Meanwhile, our society continues to fall apart all around us.  Hopefully the great sacrifice that Edward Snowden has made will not be in vain.  Hopefully people will carefully consider what he has tried to share with the world.  The following are 27 quotes from Edward Snowden about U.S. government spying that should send a chill up your spine…
#1 "The majority of people in developed countries spend at least some time interacting with the Internet, and Governments are abusing that necessity in secret to extend their powers beyond what is necessary and appropriate."

#2 "...I believe that at this point in history, the greatest danger to our freedom and way of life comes from the reasonable fear of omniscient State powers kept in check by nothing more than policy documents."

#3 "The government has granted itself power it is not entitled to. There is no public oversight. The result is people like myself have the latitude to go further than they are allowed to."

#4 "...I can't in good conscience allow the US government to destroy privacy, internet freedom and basic liberties for people around the world with this massive surveillance machine they're secretly building."

#5 "The NSA has built an infrastructure that allows it to intercept almost everything."

#6 "With this capability, the vast majority of human communications are automatically ingested without targeting. If I wanted to see your e-mails or your wife's phone, all I have to do is use intercepts. I can get your e-mails, passwords, phone records, credit cards."

#7 "Any analyst at any time can target anyone. Any selector, anywhere... I, sitting at my desk, certainly had the authorities to wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant, to a federal judge, to even the President..."

#8 "To do that, the NSA specifically targets the communications of everyone. It ingests them by default. It collects them in its system and it filters them and it analyzes them and it measures them and it stores them for periods of time simply because that's the easiest, most efficient and most valuable way to achieve these ends. So while they may be intending to target someone associated with a foreign government, or someone that they suspect of terrorism, they are collecting YOUR communications to do so."

#9 "I believe that when [senator Ron] Wyden and [senator Mark] Udall asked about the scale of this, they [the NSA] said it did not have the tools to provide an answer. We do have the tools and I have maps showing where people have been scrutinized most. We collect more digital communications from America than we do from the Russians."

#10 "...they are intent on making every conversation and every form of behavior in the world known to them."

#11 "Even if you're not doing anything wrong, you're being watched and recorded. ...it's getting to the point where you don't have to have done anything wrong, you simply have to eventually fall under suspicion from somebody, even by a wrong call, and then they can use this system to go back in time and scrutinize every decision you've ever made, every friend you've ever discussed something with, and attack you on that basis, to sort of derive suspicion from an innocent life."

#12 "Allowing the U.S. government to intimidate its people with threats of retaliation for revealing wrongdoing is contrary to the public interest."

#13 "Everyone everywhere now understands how bad things have gotten — and they’re talking about it. They have the power to decide for themselves whether they are willing to sacrifice their privacy to the surveillance state."

#14 "I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded. That is not something I am willing to support or live under."

#15 "I don't want to live in a world where there's no privacy, and therefore no room for intellectual exploration and creativity."

#16 "I have no intention of hiding who I am because I know I have done nothing wrong."

#17 "I had been looking for leaders, but I realized that leadership is about being the first to act."

#18 "There are more important things than money. If I were motivated by money, I could have sold these documents to any number of countries and gotten very rich."

#19 "The great fear that I have regarding the outcome for America of these disclosures is that nothing will change. [People] won't be willing to take the risks necessary to stand up and fight to change things... And in the months ahead, the years ahead, it's only going to get worse. [The NSA will] say that... because of the crisis, the dangers that we face in the world, some new and unpredicted threat, we need more authority, we need more power, and there will be nothing the people can do at that point to oppose it. And it will be turnkey tyranny."

#20 "I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant."

#21 "You can't come up against the world's most powerful intelligence agencies and not accept the risk."

#22 "I know the media likes to personalize political debates, and I know the government will demonize me."

#23 "We have got a CIA station just up the road – the consulate here in Hong Kong – and I am sure they are going to be busy for the next week. And that is a concern I will live with for the rest of my life, however long that happens to be."

#24 "I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions, and that the return of this information to the public marks my end."

#25 "There’s no saving me."

#26 "The only thing I fear is the harmful effects on my family, who I won't be able to help any more. That's what keeps me up at night."

#27 "I do not expect to see home again."

Would you make the same choice that Edward Snowden made?  Most Americans would not.  One CNN reporter says that he really admires Snowden because he has tried to get insiders to come forward with details about government spying for years, but none of them were ever willing to...

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by oldNslow on 06/19/13 at 11:06:43

Quote:
#11 "Even if you're not doing anything wrong, you're being watched and recorded. ...it's getting to the point where you don't have to have done anything wrong, you simply have to eventually fall under suspicion from somebody, even by a wrong call, and then they can use this system to go back in time and scrutinize every decision you've ever made, every friend you've ever discussed something with, and attack you on that basis, to sort of derive suspicion from an innocent life."


"The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."  -Ayn Rand

Anyone who thinks this NSA spying has anything to do with national security is kidding themselves.

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by srinath on 06/19/13 at 11:25:22
Yup, and he's also said the US has been spying on China.

I wont give up what he has ... common sense, integrity, obligations under the agreements I signed ... hell no.

That fool simply betrayed the trust placed in the top secret clearance given to him.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by srinath on 06/19/13 at 11:29:33

77535E54535D524E48535E5F483A0 wrote:
Would you be willing to give up what Edward Snowden has given up?  He has given up his high paying job, his home, his girlfriend, his family, his future and his freedom just to expose the monolithic spy machinery that the U.S. government has been secretly building to the world.  He says that he does not want to live in a world where there isn’t any privacy.  He says that he does not want to live in a world where everything that he says and does is recorded.  Thanks to Snowden, we now know that the U.S. government has been spying on us to a degree that most people would have never even dared to imagine.  Up until now, the general public has known very little about the U.S. government spy grid that knows almost everything about us.  But making this information public is going to cost Edward Snowden everything.  Essentially, his previous life is now totally over.  And if the U.S. government gets their hands on him, he will be very fortunate if he only has to spend the next several decades rotting in some horrible prison somewhere.  There is a reason why government whistleblowers are so rare.  And most Americans are so apathetic that they wouldn’t even give up watching their favorite television show for a single evening to do something good for society.  Most Americans never even try to make a difference because they do not believe that it will benefit them personally.  Meanwhile, our society continues to fall apart all around us.  Hopefully the great sacrifice that Edward Snowden has made will not be in vain.  Hopefully people will carefully consider what he has tried to share with the world.  The following are 27 quotes from Edward Snowden about U.S. government spying that should send a chill up your spine…
#1 "The majority of people in developed countries spend at least some time interacting with the Internet, and Governments are abusing that necessity in secret to extend their powers beyond what is necessary and appropriate."
...


And he's now in china - or hoping to be ?


77535E54535D524E48535E5F483A0 wrote:
#2 "...I believe that at this point in history, the greatest danger to our freedom and way of life comes from the reasonable fear of omniscient State powers kept in check by nothing more than policy documents."
...


Again wants to live in china ?


77535E54535D524E48535E5F483A0 wrote:
#3 "The government has granted itself power it is not entitled to. There is no public oversight. The result is people like myself have the latitude to go further than they are allowed to."

#4 "...I can't in good conscience allow the US government to destroy privacy, internet freedom and basic liberties for people around the world with this massive surveillance machine they're secretly building."

#5 "The NSA has built an infrastructure that allows it to intercept almost everything."

#6 "With this capability, the vast majority of human communications are automatically ingested without targeting. If I wanted to see your e-mails or your wife's phone, all I have to do is use intercepts. I can get your e-mails, passwords, phone records, credit cards."

#7 "Any analyst at any time can target anyone. Any selector, anywhere... I, sitting at my desk, certainly had the authorities to wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant, to a federal judge, to even the President..."

#8 "To do that, the NSA specifically targets the communications of everyone. It ingests them by default. It collects them in its system and it filters them and it analyzes them and it measures them and it stores them for periods of time simply because that's the easiest, most efficient and most valuable way to achieve these ends. So while they may be intending to target someone associated with a foreign government, or someone that they suspect of terrorism, they are collecting YOUR communications to do so."

#9 "I believe that when [senator Ron] Wyden and [senator Mark] Udall asked about the scale of this, they [the NSA] said it did not have the tools to provide an answer. We do have the tools and I have maps showing where people have been scrutinized most. We collect more digital communications from America than we do from the Russians."

#10 "...they are intent on making every conversation and every form of behavior in the world known to them."

#11 "Even if you're not doing anything wrong, you're being watched and recorded. ...it's getting to the point where you don't have to have done anything wrong, you simply have to eventually fall under suspicion from somebody, even by a wrong call, and then they can use this system to go back in time and scrutinize every decision you've ever made, every friend you've ever discussed something with, and attack you on that basis, to sort of derive suspicion from an innocent life."

#12 "Allowing the U.S. government to intimidate its people with threats of retaliation for revealing wrongdoing is contrary to the public interest."

#13 "Everyone everywhere now understands how bad things have gotten — and they’re talking about it. They have the power to decide for themselves whether they are willing to sacrifice their privacy to the surveillance state."

#14 "I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded. That is not something I am willing to support or live under."

#15 "I don't want to live in a world where there's no privacy, and therefore no room for intellectual exploration and creativity."

#16 "I have no intention of hiding who I am because I know I have done nothing wrong."

#17 "I had been looking for leaders, but I realized that leadership is about being the first to act."

#18 "There are more important things than money. If I were motivated by money, I could have sold these documents to any number of countries and gotten very rich."

#19 "The great fear that I have regarding the outcome for America of these disclosures is that nothing will change. [People] won't be willing to take the risks necessary to stand up and fight to change things... And in the months ahead, the years ahead, it's only going to get worse. [The NSA will] say that... because of the crisis, the dangers that we face in the world, some new and unpredicted threat, we need more authority, we need more power, and there will be nothing the people can do at that point to oppose it. And it will be turnkey tyranny."

#20 "I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant."

#21 "You can't come up against the world's most powerful intelligence agencies and not accept the risk."

#22 "I know the media likes to personalize political debates, and I know the government will demonize me."

#23 "We have got a CIA station just up the road – the consulate here in Hong Kong – and I am sure they are going to be busy for the next week. And that is a concern I will live with for the rest of my life, however long that happens to be."

#24 "I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions, and that the return of this information to the public marks my end."

#25 "There’s no saving me."

#26 "The only thing I fear is the harmful effects on my family, who I won't be able to help any more. That's what keeps me up at night."

#27 "I do not expect to see home again."

Would you make the same choice that Edward Snowden made?  Most Americans would not.  One CNN reporter says that he really admires Snowden because he has tried to get insiders to come forward with details about government spying for years, but none of them were ever willing to...



To all of this remember - he wants to live in china ... seriously ...
This is right up there with Odai Hussein the serial rapist calling us Infidels.

AKA pot calling the kettle black ...

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/19/13 at 20:45:44
& he gave up a hot girlfriend & a $200,000.00 a year job,, & cant go home, because he Wants to live in China? Really?
You dont think he coulda just gone to China without pokin his head in a noose?

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by srinath on 06/20/13 at 07:37:58

332C2A2D30370636063E2C206B590 wrote:
& he gave up a hot girlfriend & a $200,000.00 a year job,, & cant go home, because he Wants to live in China? Really?
You dont think he coulda just gone to China without pokin his head in a noose?


200,000 a yr ... darn I need to get me some gubbamint contracts ...

He's lost all his credibility the instant he went to china and said "the US is spying on china" ... yea we need to find out how they squeeze their 12 yr old prisoners out of their property and make them work in factories ... yea that's the technology we are in desparate need of.

He could well have gone to china that's fine, but BS'ing about us spying on china is garbage - not that we are not, but its only cos they are spying and stealing from us ... This is no national hero, he is a traitor who goes the way the wind blows.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/21/13 at 02:13:48
YOu can point out nonsense that we surely arent spyiing on them about, not all "spying" is to learn technological crap,, someone may be wanting to know what their intentions are. THAT kinda spying,

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by srinath on 06/21/13 at 07:42:25

382721263B3C0D3D0D35272B60520 wrote:
YOu can point out nonsense that we surely arent spyiing on them about, not all "spying" is to learn technological crap,, someone may be wanting to know what their intentions are. THAT kinda spying,


Or to find out what they took from us via hacking ...

Context less shooting off the mouth - like me saying I love cici's pizza so much, I ate so much of it, I now weigh 235 lbs.

Duhhh ... unrelated. Before I went to cici's I weighed 235 ... that's why I think this snowden fool is done ...
Saying we are spying on china when trying to get asylum in china ... yea that's rich.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/21/13 at 22:36:58
Saying we are spying on china when trying to get asylum in china ... yea that's rich.


Really? Whats so rich about it? Makes sense to me,., so, explain why you think its so nonsensical.

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by Serowbot on 06/21/13 at 23:27:13
I say he's making a public resume' to work for Julian Assange...
Dreams of political martyrdom...
What is the news?...  didn't we already know that international calls and Net use was being scavenged?...

Read back here a year or five... there have been references to info scavenging... and watching what you say, long before this...
Seems to me,.. this guy leaked, common knowledge...
Feigned outrage from the Right,... followed by sheep...
I've honestly heard nothing new here... why the delay?...
:-?...

Personally,.. I don't care...  
I'll admit, I cared more when Bush started it,.. but... it's like when the gas bill goes up, or stamp prices... You're angry for a few months, then you have to get over yourself...
...(and, admittedly, I did hate Bush)...
... but, this is old news... and this guy just wants his 15 minutes...
:P...

Face some reality here, boys.. if you've only just realized,... this has been going on for near a decade... and you missed the paranoid boat... and you've been on the watch list for years...
Maybe it was only reported in the real news... (I told you to turn off Faux News)...
;D ;D ;D...

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/22/13 at 01:57:18
No, Ive known about the info grab for years, Its not paranoid to not like it,.

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by Paraquat on 06/23/13 at 06:50:15
How do you feel about Mark Felt, Daniel Ellsberg, or Bradley Manning?
Edit: Or Celerino “Cele” Castillo III. Had to google him. Couldn't remember his name.


--Steve

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by srinath on 06/24/13 at 07:44:11

67787E7964635262526A78743F0D0 wrote:
Saying we are spying on china when trying to get asylum in china ... yea that's rich.


Really? Whats so rich about it? Makes sense to me,., so, explain why you think its so nonsensical.


Its again without context and yea its like those 2 (Clint eastwood and Eli wallach) in good bad ugly who start screaming something about one general when they see grey ... only to have those guys dust themselves off and see they are wearing blue ...
Yea sitting in china ... saying yea US is spying on china ...
Right after we find they have been stealing military and industrial secrets - we need to spy on them to find how they get people who protested their land being confiscated being thrown in Jail and then made to work for nothing making I phones - yea we need to get that "technology"

Context man ... context.

I love cici's pizza so much and I at so much over the weekend, I now weigh 235lbs.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by srinath on 06/24/13 at 08:03:33
And he was going to sell this information and make millions ?
Yea info about people calling other people - worth millions ? yea right.

To whom ?

How ?

Yea ... thought so, worthless info ...

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/26/13 at 09:23:03
its startin to smell,, motivation may be much weirder than any of us may have sniffed outll.. all i can type now,

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by srinath on 06/26/13 at 10:27:00

3B242225383F0E3E0E36242863510 wrote:
its startin to smell,, motivation may be much weirder than any of us may have sniffed outll.. all i can type now,



Let me take a guess.

He's been trying to sell the whole suite of worthless information he had ... with no takers.
Then to prove the info is valuable, he lets the press have a freebie ... and he runs away with the rest of the info hoping to make more $$$ off that ...

Since that info is truly worthless ... he's running to Ecuador.

This fool is about to gain parity with a sewer rat.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by srinath on 06/26/13 at 10:35:00
BTW I have some bits of secret info to squeeze more and better power from some old receivers.

I cant sell that info - cos I am not making anything ... item 1 made by some factory in china when swapped out for similar item made 30 years ago makes 25% more power with an increase in reliability.

I control no part of that supply chain.

I can make $ by repairing these and charge a going rate+ extra power premium ... or by modifying them with the same type of deal.
None of which is easy $$$. Its a $100-120 for 6-7 hours of work ...

I release the info ... I dont even make that, every fool with a screwdriver and a soldering iron will eliminate my $100 ...

Since I dont have any delusions of grandeur ... I dont proclaim I am a national hero and run to hong kong.

That is in a word what Snowden has done. He's going to gain a wonderful life of freedom in a 3rd world slum where he dont speak the language and has to keep looking over his shoulder for someone with a eye on the price on his head wanting to remove the head and send it on via UPS to collect a reward.

You cant get extradited from Ecuador. You can get decapitated.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by WD on 06/26/13 at 21:45:08
At least run to Venezuala, where regular gas is 13 CENTS per gallon. If you have to emigrate to the third world, go someplace inexpensive...

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by srinath on 06/27/13 at 06:59:14

697A3E0 wrote:
At least run to Venezuala, where regular gas is 13 CENTS per gallon. If you have to emigrate to the third world, go someplace inexpensive...


And he can presumably get govt protection from thugs ...
Of course if he does that, we could just call him a national hero, pardon him, and say how he helped the US ... promptly the venezuela govt will send his head to the POTUS in a box.`

Cool.
Srinath.

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