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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> So....... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1370959946 Message started by raydawg on 06/11/13 at 07:12:26 |
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Title: So....... Post by raydawg on 06/11/13 at 07:12:26 It seems the forces of joining fears will give opportunity to a government to further reign in the populace. I believe we are all unique and distinct individuals, with free wills that need the freedom to be expressed, in order to live a healthy spiritual life (not in the religious sense). When we surrender (by force or manipulation) man will wither and die. Those freedoms to express (expressions) come in all sorts of different forms, from arts to science.....and whatever the imaginative dreams we hold. A bigger government stands in direct opposition to such freedoms, as it decides wantonly by "secret courts, commissions, and panels" as to what is best using their self imposed power, that my friends is not democracy. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/13 at 07:46:43 & for all those who have told me Im crazy for believing the goobs were doing the things Ive said they were doing,, if youre not yet awake, Id say its time to open those eyes. This Snowden guy is TRYING, he is absolutely giving up Everything, in order to give people the insight into what THEY are doing. Theyre using OUR $$$ to develop a surveillance grid that allows them to know exactly WHO among us oppose them,, |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by oldNslow on 06/11/13 at 08:24:44 Sometime in the next couple of weeks Mr. Snowden - who is a hero in my opinion - will be discovered to have ACCIDENTALY fallen to his death from a twenty story hotel balcony. The investigating athorites will discover drugs and perhaps a dead hooker in his room. The character asasination in the media has already started - this morning I saw a photo on ABC of his alledged stripper girlfriend. Every single politician, regardless of party, who has made a statment about this,says Snowden should by treated as a traitor, so you know where our so called represenatives stand. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by raydawg on 06/11/13 at 09:27:08 I don't have much information on this person Snowden, for me to assign motivation to his action would be purely an assumption on my part with heavy prejudice deciding what is "fact" (truth). What concerns me is when you have opposing political foes as those who host, and guest, on FOX news, etc, agreeing on this activity..... I can't help but wonder where this will lead. We can never, ever, ascertain our safety in such a manner without forfeiting some of our freedoms. I believe the terrorist, who have struck their targets against our way of life, saw this was indeed our Achilles heel, and it appears the body count (damage) it afflicted, continues to mount, and grow, with each passing day, as we move further and further away from freedom, to a captive lifestyle, based solely upon fear..... |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/13 at 09:54:50 & this is why tyrants have used false flag attacks, to create fear, so they can impose controls to "Keep the people safe:" |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by raydawg on 06/11/13 at 10:09:34 Where I live I have access to Canadian airwaves. They are reporting their own such programs. This surely prompts the question: "Who won the war?" |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by srinath on 06/11/13 at 10:41:44 Regular hero alright ... sign a secrecy oath which you need for security clearance, and promptly feign outrage and publicize the BS you swore to protect ... right up there with cheating on your wife cos that other chick was hottttt. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by srinath on 06/11/13 at 10:45:34 Then of course he ran to HongKong and wants to get asylum in iceland. I think that's the holy trinity of guilt. Fool. He's gonna get a Jail cell, with the Bradley Manning as a roomie (who BTW did exactly the same but Under the Bushies administration). Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by Paraquat on 06/11/13 at 11:06:31 43504855504656310 wrote:
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2013/06/why-edward-snowden-is-a-hero.html --Steve |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by raydawg on 06/11/13 at 11:12:13 Is it possible for you to set aside your prejudice of this person and address the underlying issue? Is this surveillance something you agree with, or do you just attack the messenger because it bodes ill with the current president? Has this been something that was in operation in the past, most likely. Has its practice been justified, most definitely. As with a seed planted....it can take months till it sprouts, maybe even years, given to some climates that don't readily support growth. Was this seed planted after 911, or before, does it really matter? Nevertheless, it has sprouted, or the Genie has fully left her bottle, now what? More name calling, or blaming who made the matches, or who struck it......as Rome burns? |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by raydawg on 06/11/13 at 11:20:36 5465766575716570040 wrote:
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2013/06/why-edward-snowden-is-a-hero.html --Steve[/quote] Thank you for the link.....but my reference was more on a personal level, as in I have never engaged this person in a private conversation, and to rely upon hearsay ( which our courts frown upon ) to assign motivation, etc, is ripe for prejudice. I know I would appreciate a "fair trial", before judgement was passed onto me ;) Sorry for any confusion.... |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by oldNslow on 06/11/13 at 11:29:03 686972757A6F731B0 wrote:
Yes, a hero. When he figured out what was really going on he went public regardless of the consequences to himself. Manning is a different case. The stuff he leaked actually put the lives of specific individuals in danger. Snowden, at least up to this point, simply blew the lid off a government program that never should have been allowed to happen in the first place. The justification for this massive invasion of privacy is that it is somehow needed to protect us from terrorists. That's a load of crap. It's real purpose is to provide the means for whomever happens to be in power to target their political enemies. This kind of ties in with the other thread on here about how much you can trust the government. As far as I'm concerned, you can't trust them enough to allow programs like this to exist and expect that they won't be abused. Snowden violated his oath huh. What about the oath that everyone of those clowns in washington took to uphold the constitution. And then voted for this Sh*t. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by srinath on 06/11/13 at 11:40:25 6A5455594B5756380 wrote:
Yes, a hero. When he figured out what was really going on he went public regardless of the consequences to himself. Manning is a different case. The stuff he leaked actually put the lives of specific individuals in danger. Snowden, at least up to this point, simply blew the lid off a government program that never should have been allowed to happen in the first place. The justification for this massive invasion of privacy is that it is somehow needed to protect us from terrorists. That's a load of crap. It's real purpose is to provide the means for whomever happens to be in power to target their political enemies. This kind of ties in with the other thread on here about how much you can trust the government. As far as I'm concerned, you can't trust them enough to allow programs like this to exist and expect that they won't be abused. Snowden violated his oath huh. What about the oath that everyone of those clowns in washington took to uphold the constitution. And then voted for this Sh*t. [/quote] That's the whole point OldNslow. You cant break the rules no matter what your particular bias is. The politicians are making a case for bending and shaving and what not to the constitution without actually breaking it. And there are laws that contradict the constitution plenty including in the patriot act. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by verslagen1 on 06/11/13 at 11:53:20 So snowy has done irrepairable harm? But the pres can tell the whole world we got bin laden and all his computers, and every scrap of paper and we're gonna track down every one of them. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/13 at 11:59:31 4D4C57505F4A563E0 wrote:
He is exposing the criminals who SWore an Oath to Uphold the Constitution. He is reporting a crime, He isnt releasing anything that makes America less safe. He is doing exactly what America needs. That you are unable to see that is, again, NO Surprise.. Ive been waiting to see your take on it,, Thank you for being 100% predictable &, once again, WRONG., |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/13 at 12:01:50 75746F6867726E060 wrote:
Yes, a hero. When he figured out what was really going on he went public regardless of the consequences to himself. Manning is a different case. The stuff he leaked actually put the lives of specific individuals in danger. Snowden, at least up to this point, simply blew the lid off a government program that never should have been allowed to happen in the first place. The justification for this massive invasion of privacy is that it is somehow needed to protect us from terrorists. That's a load of crap. It's real purpose is to provide the means for whomever happens to be in power to target their political enemies. This kind of ties in with the other thread on here about how much you can trust the government. As far as I'm concerned, you can't trust them enough to allow programs like this to exist and expect that they won't be abused. Snowden violated his oath huh. What about the oath that everyone of those clowns in washington took to uphold the constitution. And then voted for this Sh*t. [/quote] That's the whole point OldNslow. You cant break the rules no matter what your particular bias is. The politicians are making a case for bending and shaving and what not to the constitution without actually breaking it. And there are laws that contradict the constitution plenty including in the patriot act. Cool. Srinath. [/quote] And there are laws that contradict the constitution plenty including in the patriot act. There ARE words on paper that some criminals enforce as IF theyre "Law",, however, they are NOT law. They are null & void at the moment theyre signed Into law. Not when theyre so labelled in a court, but when theyre signed. They are of NO meaning or strength. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by srinath on 06/11/13 at 12:10:22 7E6167607D7A4B7B4B73616D26140 wrote:
And the Bushies signed it into law ... Go on now, Its time for you to criticize "Both sides" and say the country is going down the tubes cos Bammy is this or that. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by raydawg on 06/11/13 at 12:15:18 383922252A3F234B0 wrote:
And the Bushies signed it into law ... Go on now, Its time for you to criticize "Both sides" and say the country is going down the tubes cos Bammy is this or that. Cool. Srinath.[/quote] Did you miss this? Is it possible for you to set aside your prejudice of this person and address the underlying issue? Is this surveillance something you agree with, or do you just attack the messenger because it bodes ill with the current president? Has this been something that was in operation in the past, most likely. Has its practice been justified, most definitely. As with a seed planted....it can take months till it sprouts, maybe even years, given to some climates that don't readily support growth. Was this seed planted after 911, or before, does it really matter? Nevertheless, it has sprouted, or the Genie has fully left her bottle, now what? More name calling, or blaming who made the matches, or who struck it......as Rome burns? |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/13 at 12:15:52 Well,, make it clear, you approve or disapprove of Bammy? TRY to decide w/o balancing Him against Bush. {Pretend he is the first president. Is he doing us right or not? |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by srinath on 06/11/13 at 12:25:25 455A5C5B4641704070485A561D2F0 wrote:
Bammy is Awful. Only thing awfuller was the Id10t that preceeded him. Or the main Id10t's who aspired to replace him last year. However he is not the first president ... he wasn't given a clean slate of laws. He already had a surveillance plan signed into law he had to enforce by continuing it, and he had a prosecution in progress against Julian Assange and Bradley Manning handed him. Bammy had 2 failed and failing wars he had to continue and wind down, and a prison festering with impossible problems to deal with with an obstructionist congress. That's is my take - the exact counter to JOG's - when Bushies are wrong ... and they have been wrong plenty ... the Bushies are wrong. When Bammy is wrong, I criticize "both sides" - or well if Bushies were the culprit - I blame them. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by Pine on 06/11/13 at 12:26:59 What I find so odd.. is that any of this is NEWS. Ummm I heard about this years ago. I don't know when it became a "secret". I don't have any exclusive inside scoop on anything.. thus I must assume this NEW story is just more media candy. How the heck can I be the only one to know this??? As I recall, the story I read was something along the lines that the NSA wanted to expand their ability to track all phone calls with the ability to read and store all emails... and THAT was the big news.. not stupid phone numbers... but email CONTENT. BTW they are either still after that or already got it. But lets just be scary about THIS phone call business. So lets see if I got this right: AS OF RIGHT NOW... BY LAW.... the NSA can track your phone use if based on this phone use, you pose a threat then the military can lock you up...no court.. no charges... you just disappear... forever. Being a citizen on US soil is no protection. Yes I have that right... and if it does not scare you... you are tough! |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by srinath on 06/11/13 at 12:38:24 70494E45544F52200 wrote:
Yes Bush had several million people's email and digital communications under surveillance. Old news. The court-approved program is focused on foreign communications traffic, which often flows through U.S. servers even when sent from one overseas location to another. Between 2004 and 2007, Bush administration lawyers persuaded federal FISA judges to issue surveillance orders in a fundamentally new form. Until then the government had to show probable cause that a particular “target” and “facility” were both connected to terrorism or espionage. Now that Obama is doing it, the Faux news and related right wing media is all lathered up. BTW the new information being sought was only the call placed to and duration - not content. Bush got everything including the information in the communications. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by oldNslow on 06/11/13 at 13:12:12 Quote:
Not odd at all. You're right; it's not been a secret for a long time. But it didn't become "NEWS" until Snowden went public, pissed off the powers that be, and the mainstream media couldn't continue to ignore it. Some of us so-called "right wing nut jobs" have been complaining about the Patriot act and it's implications and everything that followed it since the day it was signed into law. Quote:
Right. And like I said in my post above - it isn't Jihadis that are going to get swept up by this - it's whoever the party in power at any given time decides is a threat to that power. Handing a tool like this to a government - any government - is not just an invitation to tyranny it is the definition of tyranny. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by raydawg on 06/11/13 at 14:00:46 25243F3837223E560 wrote:
Bammy is Awful. Only thing awfuller was the Id10t that preceeded him. Or the main Id10t's who aspired to replace him last year. However he is not the first president ... he wasn't given a clean slate of laws. He already had a surveillance plan signed into law he had to enforce by continuing it, and he had a prosecution in progress against Julian Assange and Bradley Manning handed him. Bammy had 2 failed and failing wars he had to continue and wind down, and a prison festering with impossible problems to deal with with an obstructionist congress. That's is my take - the exact counter to JOG's - when Bushies are wrong ... and they have been wrong plenty ... the Bushies are wrong. When Bammy is wrong, I criticize "both sides" - or well if Bushies were the culprit - I blame them. Cool. Srinath.[/quote] Ripe dude....... You expend 3 words to "Bammy" and proceed the next hundred or so blaming Bush, with a few choice observations at Mitt, and the rest defending "Bammy" cuz he was handed ca ca-do do, indeed, fair and balanced you is ;D Ever read the story of an emperor who wore no clothes? |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/13 at 15:42:51 Bammy could walk away from enforcing anything he chooses,, he coulda brought our guys home, JUST like he said he would, He could look at Assange & declare him a hero & pardon him,, He isnt being dragged down Bush's trail, he is plowing it & loving it,, I cant understand why the left hates Bush,, he is Bammy in different clothes. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by oldNslow on 06/11/13 at 16:23:53 And as long as we just keep arguing about who's fault it is, and pissin' and moanin' about "your guy is worser than my guy" the country is just going to keep circling the drain. It doesn't make a bit of difference who's in the WH at any particular time any more. THEY ALL think this spying on everyone is a good idea. And a huge chunk of the population doesn't have a problem with it either. >:( |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/13 at 16:30:11 & thats the point Ive been making.. Wrong is wrong, doesnt matter who is doin it,, if this guy isnt as bad as the last guy, BUT, what he is doing is wrong, he still needs called on it, Or, if the last guy was horrible BUT didnt get in trouble, then what? Does that mean we have to live with a never ending stream of criminals who never get in trouble, because "the Last guy did bad things & HE didnt get in trouble!"?? STOP the childish crap, admit wrong is wrong ,, OR,, dont allow "Your Guy" to get in trouble & SINK with the ship! |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by Starlifter on 06/11/13 at 21:35:25 Bye bye Snowden...'poof'...next day, Snowden Who? |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/13 at 21:44:54 Isnt that the TRuth? Americans have the memory & attention span of retarded mice! Ive been watching "Topic of the minute" be the norm for America for decades! All thats necessary is throw out a new topic & let every talking head on the news Talk about THAT for 2 days & everyone is gibbering about THAT now,, No matter How big of a deal Yesterdays "Big Deal" WAS!.. Thje "News" programs are the same on these topics. No matter what channel, Dem or Bub programming, the talking heads are saying the very same words! YOu guys remember about 10 years ago, when Mike Jackson was in the news? It didnt matter What news channel you went to, YOu GOT MJ "News".. While there was a BIG meeting going on in Florida.. Not ONE news channel covered the leaders in Florida, with the 8 foot wire fence around the hotel,, they were all talking about MJ, & all using the same phrases.. Tell ME they arent controlled.. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by Paraquat on 06/12/13 at 06:09:25 Isn't it a shame? Another one of those "almost by design" things... people having less of an attention span. The world has evolved so quickly. I consider myself rather young still but I can tell youngins I lived in an age without the internet. I can remember a time before 9/11 and all the laws that were forced as a result. People born after 2001 will never have known freedoms such as those so they don't know what they're missing. --Steve |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by srinath on 06/12/13 at 07:12:43 7445564555514550240 wrote:
People have plenty of attention span ... the media is run by morons. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by Starlifter on 06/12/13 at 18:22:27 "The media is run by morons". ...and liers. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by raydawg on 06/12/13 at 19:30:24 I have a question..... "Who benefits the most from the current conditions of our political climate? If you know the answer, then you know who is in control. Once was a day when public servants truly was vested in serving to the betterment of all who cared to participate. Now, it takes 24/7 campaigning to be viable as a candidate or hold a position.... The money raised for every political ad, from printing flyers to air time ends up in the pockets of who? That is who is in power, and willingly censor overtly, or by omission, any threat to change, propping up their puppets, and minions, to maintain and expand that control..... Free press.....no, its for sale. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by srinath on 06/13/13 at 07:16:21 7F6C74696C7A6A0D0 wrote:
TEA baggers believe its benifitting them. Hence the obstructionism. Their donors love it and are filling their coffers. The liberals are worried its benifitting the TEA baggers. I'd going to go out on the ledge here and say ... TEA baggers are ruining things. Thats right, TEA baggers are ruining things. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by srinath on 06/13/13 at 07:52:35 5E796C7F61646B79687F0D0 wrote:
Bwahahahhahahah, now he says the US spying on china ... Yea we need to get their industrial secrets on how exactly they get slave laborers to work till they die ... This fool is done. Stick a fork in him. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by Midnightrider on 06/13/13 at 20:06:42 The government is supposed to fear us not the other way around. 911 was created to put fear into our hearts. Its wearing off. Intelligent people are beginning to realize they've been scammed. All the military is working on and developing is weapons of crowd control. The've bought enough ammo to put 6 shots in every one of us. We're going to have to have some bright heroes or we're all going down the tubes. I cant remember which group it is, The Biderbergs, Council on Foreign Relations, the Illuminati, who ever they want 12 out of 13 of us dead. The right wing wants to destroy the planet with pollution, the left wing wants to feed everyone including those unwilling to work while all the time Washington and Wall St rake in all the money. The government should have bailed the poor and middle class out and let the banks collapse. That's what the majority of the people wanted but we don't know whats best for ourselves. ::) It was wrong the first time and they turned around and did it again, that's why I believe Obama is not in control. He spent all that time campaigning against the second amendment while the economy was still going to hell. It makes sense for people to have a job they can feed their family with and quit worrying whether a law abiding citizen has a gun in his pocket. |
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Title: Re: So....... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/13/13 at 20:18:55 57564D4A45504C240 wrote:
Bwahahahhahahah, now he says the US spying on china ... Yea we need to get their industrial secrets on how exactly they get slave laborers to work till they die ... This fool is done. Stick a fork in him. Cool. Srinath. [/quote] YOu have no idea the reasons for spying. Its not just for industrial gain,, There is also looking for evidence theybe been spying on you, but, youree so quick to look down on others you dont think. |
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