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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1370811297 Message started by EeeSkwa on 06/09/13 at 13:54:56 |
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Title: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by EeeSkwa on 06/09/13 at 13:54:56 my 87 savage will not start. Per the attached picture smoke was coming up from where the lead wire was bolted down. I pulled the tank and changed the spark plug just be sure, and after putting everything back together and re-taping up the lead wire in a couple of places the bike still clicks but won't turn. The wire has melted a little bit of the section plastic section where it is bolted down (same spot little whisps of smoke, from melting plastic i assume, were coming out off at first, but now the smoke is gone). Maybe it is shorting out there still????? The wire gets reallllly hot still after attempting to start it a few times, so I'm guessing there is a short there still and that is the culprit of my non-starting bike still. Checked the Fuses and those are good, and battery is fully charged and ready to go. Andy advice here? I can probably get a new lead wire, and see if that fixes it, but I am guessing that melted spot behind the bolt is still the culprit. Thanks for everyone's help here! ::) |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by WD on 06/09/13 at 14:25:09 Replace the cable, once you let all the smoke out of them they quit working... ;) And that lead is supposed to ground out on the engine block, not the bike frame. Back behind the oil level check window the inner case narrows. End goes on one of those case bolts. Your starter isn't going to be properly grounded relying on the frame to be the entire bike's ground lug. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by EeeSkwa on 06/09/13 at 14:33:31 Thanks! I just ordered one and will report back after I install it! ;D |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by Oldfeller on 06/09/13 at 15:19:42 And now you know why we don't go around cracking any funnies at the newbies in RSD -- they tend to take you seriously and they go order new battery to engine block ground cables ..... :o :o ;) |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by WD on 06/09/13 at 15:34:21 ;D I learned the hard way, if the smoke comes out the wire is junk... Of course, I had to learn it on fabric covered wires. Where if one wire lets the smoke out, they all tend to. Who knew wiring insulation was flammable? I do wonder why the cable was run to the frame instead of the engine. No reason to ever reroute it unless the battery box was off for some kind of work before he got the bike... and even then, it should have gone back on the engine. I'll have to see where the cable routes inside the battery box. I moved the ignition solenoid to the toolbox, so my wiring is rather, um, "different" than stone stock would be. Wonder how much other crap I can cram in there since I have a different gas tank, no switch boxes, no decomp relay... |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by wambr on 06/10/13 at 01:22:56 you are evil guys... ;D but beginners should. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by EJID on 06/10/13 at 08:10:28 In an attempt to still help out the newbie, here is where the ground cable is supposed to be attached to the engine... http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/23/bikepics-2370699-full.jpg |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by SALB on 06/10/13 at 10:20:07 Is it just me, or is the positive post grounded to the frame? :-? I suppose someone could have installed the wrong battery with reverse poles? :-/ |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by EeeSkwa on 06/10/13 at 16:41:35 42414256404846230 wrote:
Nope, that is the negative post on the battery and the negative lead. $10 for a new ground wire...nbd, but thanks for the hazing all you senior members :D I guess a little ignorance got me more face time to answer this issue, so can't complain! thanks for all your responses ;D |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by EeeSkwa on 06/10/13 at 16:47:41 454A4944000 wrote:
So the negative lead is on the other side of your picture here...you would have to wrap the ground wire around the back or underneath the battery box to get to that post by the clutch cable? |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by EeeSkwa on 06/10/13 at 21:07:23 I just grounded the negative lead to another solid area of the engine block and tried to start it and the wire smoked in the same spot.... it is fried. waiting on the new one. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/10/13 at 22:00:05 Have you ever grabbed a resister in a circuit? They get Hot. When current flows through resistance it makes heat. Dirty connections are resistive. If thats not why its hot, then IDK what else could do it,,surely its not a polarity issue.,. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by WD on 06/10/13 at 22:05:42 If I remember right, the cable runs inside the box and drops out on the right hand side. But, my bike is nowhere near stock, hasn't been for years. I haven't even opened the battery box in 2 years, at least. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by hotrodbobber on 06/11/13 at 08:27:16 COME ON GUYS HELP THIS GUY OUT. It seems as you have a problem with your starter or starter solenoid. If the cable gets hot then too much current is passing through it caused by something at the other end, if that bolt/connection is getting hot, clean it, thats all it needs, no need to buy a new cable unless it melts, look at the red cable from the battery and see where it goes, that will be where the problem is. The black cable is an earth and unless there is a dirty connection it should be ok. The only thing that can draw a LOT of current is the starter, everything else is via a fuse and will blow if over 20A straight away |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/13 at 08:29:02 Im doin all I can,, & since you said a lot of what I said,, Im guessin a I did as much as you did b you agree with my answer. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by Dave on 06/11/13 at 09:07:55 7879697F79282A2C1C0 wrote:
You make a good point. It would be a good idea to pull the starter out and make sure it will turn by hand, then apply power to see if the starter will run or has a short in it. The original post made us focus on the ground wire.....when the problem may be elsewhere. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/13 at 09:10:28 The same number of electrons flow thru the hot wire on the battery as the ground, so, if only the ground is getting hot, it is connected so that it is resistive. If it gets hot on one end, its that end that is resistive. Tha same current flows the length of the wire. If its simply High Current, the whole wire gets hot. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by verslagen1 on 06/11/13 at 09:14:21 3E3E3E28302C3A5B0 wrote:
The wire gets hot... so we know current is flowing. The bike clicks... multiple clicks or just twice? Won't turn... let's check this. Take the starter out and jumper it to see if it spins. 2 bolts on the end and the positive lead. lift the end and pull. jumper negative to the case and positive to that terminal... get ready for it to jump. just a brief touch, just need to make sure it works. next check the gears for any broken teeth on the starter. then check the hole in came out of, reach in and spin the gears, should go 1 way and not the other. the pre'90's are notorious for busting teeth. see... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1288911670 next possibility is the decomp is not working, or too loose to work. press the start button with everything back together. it should pop for a 1.2 second then return. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by EeeSkwa on 06/11/13 at 09:36:48 Thanks guys, I will pull the starter tonight and try and jump it as suggested and check for broken teeth. Its just odd that the ground wire keeps somking when switching grounding locations. I feel like it needs to be replaced too. ...will report back. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/13 at 09:47:11 You could pull the plug & see if it spins over w/o compression. If not, starter comes off, if it does & it sounds like a thrashing machine, starter comes off,, |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by Dave on 06/11/13 at 10:20:06 I remember one fellow cranked his starter too long, and the magnet came loose and lodged against the rotor. That locked the starter up....this could be something like that. Not sure about the smokey wire though - does the red positive wire get warm? |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by EeeSkwa on 06/11/13 at 10:23:50 786B7C7D626F696B603F0E0 wrote:
There are multiple clicks....several |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/13 at 11:40:21 Make sure the battery is charged up. Sounds like its been thru a hard time lately,, If you havent been recharging it, I bet its low. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by EeeSkwa on 06/15/13 at 08:16:46 19222F3829253E38232B26394A0 wrote:
You make a good point. It would be a good idea to pull the starter out and make sure it will turn by hand, then apply power to see if the starter will run or has a short in it. The original post made us focus on the ground wire.....when the problem may be elsewhere.[/quote] replaced the lead wire with same results...pulled the starter and it does not turn by hand...wont budge...all the teeth look good on the starter and the starter clutch assembly. Starter clutch gears turn in one direction too with no issues (counterclockwise). Think i found the culprit of my issue finally....bad starter...going to take it apart and see what I can do but may just be easier to find a replacement starter if this one is shot. Shouldn't the starter motor turn freely by hand? |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by Steve H on 06/15/13 at 09:15:31 It should turn by hand. That's why they wanted you to test it that way. Sounds like something has locked up your starter motor. It's pulling way more current than it should if it doesn't turn...hence the smoking wire. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by verslagen1 on 06/15/13 at 10:35:18 jumper the battery terms to the starter, should spin with a mighty kick. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by EeeSkwa on 06/17/13 at 09:31:31 6D7E6968777A7C7E752A1B0 wrote:
I jumperd the starter and it does not spin...no go. removed it completey and when I shake it, there are some rattling noises coming from it (NOT GOOD), haha. I may take it to a rebuilder as I cannot seem to find any new or used starters online for less than $200. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by EeeSkwa on 07/09/13 at 18:33:35 Well....one rebuilt starter and a new starter solenoid and 8 months of frustration finally overcome. She works! Runs better than ever (thanks to several new parts too), and I couldn't be happier. Perfect time of year. Thanks to anyone who helped here. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Electrical Short in Lead Wire from Battery Post by Digger on 08/12/13 at 20:19:52 [smiley=thumbup.gif] [smiley=thumbup.gif] [smiley=thumbup.gif] 2F2F2F39213D2B4A0 wrote:
[smiley=thumbup.gif] Congrats, and thanks for the update! |
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