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Message started by WebsterMark on 05/31/13 at 05:43:00

Title: Zimmerman
Post by WebsterMark on 05/31/13 at 05:43:00

Will Zimmerman be railroaded into a guilty verdict in order to avoid Orlando burning? Evidence of who Martin really was in being withheld from trial so it's looking that way. I've never figured out why evidence like that is withheld from jurors. if you were going into business with someone, wouldn't you want to have all the data you could on them to determine who they really are; how they really act? Wouldn't that information help you make a decision? Shouldn't jurors know Martin was expelled from school; smoking weed, sending inflammatory text and there's something about a gun they are withholding. The prosecution will try to paint him as some innocent little boy, but that ain't the truth.

Racist like Sharpton and Jackson will exploit this trial the entire time to keep themselves in front of the cameras and a not guilty verdict will bring flames to Orlando. Our branch in Florida has a part time guy who is a part time Deputy Sheriff. He's been involved in this case a little so I've heard some inside stuff. I need to keep in touch with him.

Title: Re: Zimmerman
Post by srinath on 05/31/13 at 06:29:51

Yea a mexican anchor baby (I think the word is chicano) who thinks he's better than the black kid cos the black kid was wearing a hoodie ... I dont think he is being rail roaded, I think he needs to be deported.

This ia a collective drain on our national concsiousness.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Zimmerman
Post by Midnightrider on 05/31/13 at 07:03:19

Martin was no angel but he was no hardcore criminal and didn't deserve to die. I smoked dope and got kicked out of school, I don't consider myself a criminal. Pot is legal in several states now so whats the big deal? I made a few poor decisions and that's it. I carry all the time , as Star so eloquently puts it I have a gun in my pants when I crap. The difference between Zimmerman and me is I'm not a wannabe cop who goes looking for trouble. I'm too slow to run and too old to fight so I carry. Zimmerman could have backed off like he was told to do and everything would have been OK. You go looking for a fight and you'll find one. I agree with you about Jackson and Sharpton, two of the most pregidous men in the US and the news media will be all over them promoting what they say.. I don't think Zimmerman should get off free, When carrying a gun there comes certain responsibility and Zimmermans actions would have failed him at a concealed carry class. He way overstepped his boundaries.

Title: Re: Zimmerman
Post by WebsterMark on 05/31/13 at 07:14:31

Zimmerman could have backed off like he was told to do and everything would have been OK.
He says he did and was pursued himself.

When carrying a gun there comes certain responsibility and Zimmermans actions would have failed him at a concealed carry class. He way overstepped his boundaries.
how?

in retrospect; Zimmerman should have stayed in car. We can all say in retrospect, we would have done many things differently. however, we don't yet know what really happened and some of the crap that came out in the beginning has already proven to be incorrect. I have doubts the truth will come out because Orlando is afraid of the consequences. Case should never have gone to trial. If it was a white guy shooting another white guy or black guy shooting a black guy in the exact same circumstances, none of us would even know either of their names...

Title: Re: Zimmerman
Post by Drifter on 05/31/13 at 10:51:55

No the reason is a kid is dead! The cops told the dumbass to stand down...nope wanna be hero starts some nuts anyway kills a kid for WALKING down the darn street. Deserves what he gets!!!

Title: Re: Zimmerman
Post by WebsterMark on 05/31/13 at 11:32:17

You guys are so funny.... you see a hundred different silly conspiracies in your shadow, yet you'll buy hook, line and sinker whatever MSNBC tells you happened that night despite solid evidence (not nut job 9/11 truther stuff) to the contrary....

Title: Re: Zimmerman
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/31/13 at 12:02:17

Webby, you know way too little about how hot metal behaves to talk down to truthers.

Title: Re: Zimmerman
Post by Starlifter on 05/31/13 at 13:09:43

Character assignation is a tried and true legal tactic. It works all the time.

New evidence!!! New evidence!!! gunned-down teenage murder victim's juvenile braggadocio proves Zimmerman needed to shoot to kill...pfft.

That Trayvon stuff sounds like stupid teenage talk to make themselves sound tough to others.

And pictures!! We've got pictures!! Uh huh, there is evidence they used a picture of the 30-something year old rapper named 'Game' and said it was Trayvon. And they doctored Trayvon's picture to make him look menacing like they did to O.J. Simpson's picture.

For reasons only god knows, you're rooting so laughably hard for a Zimmerman acquittal...I'm sure you were rooting with equal enthusiasm for OJ's acquittal eh?

yes, poor, defenseless Zimmerman. Whatever could he do to protect himself? He just *had* to 'stand his ground' which of course means fatally shooting a teen... What a hero.
Oh, and doesn't that aggressive thug Zimmerman have a freaking police record of violence against others ?

...and this, George's brother Robert Zimmerman has said some nasty racist things on Twitter. This entire clan is full of deluded, racist nuts...and racists all over the country have been sending money to George to the tune of over $100.000.

Zimmerman's guilt began when he got out of the vehicle and started stalking...Ooo, if poor Zimmy is convicted I'm sure white's will burn Orlando to the ground!

Title: Re: Zimmerman
Post by Midnightrider on 05/31/13 at 13:55:34

I don't know nuthin about no MSNBC but I heard a tape of the police dispatcher telling Zimmerman to stand down. We quit giving awards for killing Negroes down here a long time ago Web. Maybe your bullsh!t will go over well at your next Klan meeting. Sh!theads like Zimmerman screw it up for those of us who choose to carry responsibly. I hope he gets a cell with the biggest sweetest black guy in the pen.

Title: Re: Zimmerman
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/31/13 at 16:12:34

IDK who did what. Who was wrong. IDK if he was attacked or did the attacking, BUT, he was within his rights to keep an eye on the guy. SHOULD he have gone a walkin up close? Heck,, DID he approach, or was he seen & approached? IF he was walking along, other side of the road, just shadowing & observing & Trayvon went to him to confront him,, then, he did a dumb thing,,

Did the cops give him good advice? Id say so. He, it would seem to me, could have accomplished the objective of keeping the homes safe by just driving along slowly,, but, then, if ya really think about that,, I mean REALLY think about it, imagine being in a car & keeping an eye on a pedestrian.. Howzat really work out? Id rather be walking, myself,,
The "IF he had done what the cops TOLD him to do" argument has some merit,, its true enough,, nobody woulda got shot,, BUT,, He doesnt WORK for the cops,, & they dont really have the power to tell someone what to do or not do. They arent there, they cant balance events, they just have a line they go by,, Things coulda been REal different,, What IF the dead guy had been carrying a gun & what IF the dead guy was left alone & then busted in some place & raped & killed & looted? Easy to have that 20/20 hindsight,,

Title: Re: Zimmerman
Post by raydawg on 05/31/13 at 17:22:26

The reason you can't allow that type of information into the trial is because Zimmerman did not know it/that at the time. You must try to enact the evidence, as it was, at the time of the incident.

Information of that nature can be used in sentencing of a defendant however.

Title: Re: Zimmerman
Post by raydawg on 05/31/13 at 17:23:47

Title: Re: Zimmerman
Post by Starlifter on 05/31/13 at 18:16:58

Source:

'TAMPA BAY TIMES'

<snip>

Florida 'stand your ground' law yields some shocking outcomes depending on how law is applied.

For example:

Florida's "stand your ground'' law has allowed drug dealers to avoid murder charges and gang members to walk free. It has stymied prosecutors and confused judges.Seven years since it was passed,

Florida's "stand your ground" law is being invoked with unexpected frequency, in ways no one imagined, to free killers and violent attackers whose self-defense claims seem questionable at best.
Cases with similar facts show surprising — sometimes shocking — differences in outcomes. If you claim "stand your ground" as the reason you shot someone, what happens to you can depend less on the merits of the case than on who you are, whom you kill and where your case is decided.

• Those who invoke "stand your ground" to avoid prosecution have been extremely successful. Nearly 70 percent have gone free.

• Defendants claiming "stand your ground" are more likely to prevail if the victim is black. Seventy-three percent of those who killed a black person faced no penalty compared to 59 percent of those who killed a white.

• The number of cases is increasing, largely because defense attorneys are using "stand your ground" in ways state legislators never envisioned. The defense has been invoked in dozens of cases with minor or no injuries.

• People often go free under "stand your ground" in cases that seem to make a mockery of what lawmakers intended. One man killed two unarmed people and walked out of jail. Another shot a man as he lay on the ground. Others went free after shooting their victims in the back. In nearly a third of the cases the Times analyzed, defendants initiated the fight, shot an unarmed person or pursued their victim — and still went free.

<snip>

'Emboldening'

As "stand your ground" claims have increased, so too has the number of Floridians with guns. Concealed weapons permits now stand at 1.1 million, three times as many as in 2005 when the law was passed.

"I think the (stand your ground) law has an emboldening effect. All of a sudden, you're a tough guy and can be aggressive,'' said George Kirkham, a professor emeritus at Florida State University who has worked as a police officer.

Criminologists say that when people with guns get the message they have a right to stand and fight, rather than retreat, the threshold for using that gun goes down. All too often, Bruce Bartlett, chief assistant state attorney for Pinellas-Pasco counties, sees the result.

"I see cases where I'll think, 'This person didn't really need to kill that person but the law, as it is written, justifies their action,' " Bartlett said about incidents that his office decides not to prosecute due to "stand your ground." "It may be legally within the boundaries. But at the end of the day, was it really necessary?"

Item:

Florida’s controversial ‘Stand Your Ground’ law is back on the national stage after the murder of yet another unarmed, black teenager.

Michael Dunn, a 45-year-old Florida resident is invoking the controversial law after a recent confrontation turned fatal, The Orlando Sentinel reports.

According to authorities, 17-year-old Jordan Russell Davis, a black teenager, and several other friends were confronted by Dunn, a white man, who pulled alongside the teens' SUV in the parking lot of a Jacksonville, Fla., gas station. Dunn asked them to turn their music down, and after an exchange of words, he fired between 8 and 9 shots at the vehicle, several of which hit Davis, causing his death.

Dunn was arrested on Saturday and charged with murder and attempted murder, his lawyer said that her client acted "responsibly and in self defense."

<end of snip>

Once again, it was not, HIS GROUND, and he STARTED it!!

When is this sh!t going to end??

Now Castle Doctrine is different...Much different. It's a legal doctrine that designates a person's abode as a place in which that person has certain protections and immunities permitting them to, (in certain circumstances), use force, up to and including deadly force to defend against an intruder.

Who can argue against that?

Title: Re: Zimmerman
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/31/13 at 20:38:37

People often go free under "stand your ground" in cases that seem to make a mockery of what lawmakers intended. One man killed two unarmed people and walked out of jail. Another shot a man as he lay on the ground. Others went free after shooting their victims in the back. In nearly a third of the cases the Times analyzed, defendants initiated the fight, shot an unarmed person or pursued their victim — and still went free.

Id need to see something that made any of those make sense. Just on the face of those statements Id say thats as messed up as a burglar suing a homeowner for injuries suffered falling thru a sky lite.. Juries can be really stupid,,

Title: Re: Zimmerman
Post by WD on 05/31/13 at 20:44:45

Better find your heart meds Star, because I agree, Castle Doctrine and "stand your ground" are most definitely not the same thing.

Now, I grew up in a state that still enforces range law on one side of the mountains. In eastern WA, once your ground is properly posted, you have the legal right to shoot anybody who steps foot on it w/o a FEDERAL warrant and an accompanying U.S. Marshal. And, statewide, it was ruled that tractor trailers fall under Castle Doctrine, since so many truckers are over the road drivers and live out of their rigs. Of course, under federal law, carrying in a big rig is illegal... ;)

We do things a bit differently in my part of Dixie. The police will not respond to anything short of blood shed, and rarely then. I have signs up warning that pickers and/or scrappers will be shot. I'm usually carrying on my farm (lots of "pasture poodles", aka, coyotes; feral hogs; crop damaging deer and small animals, etc). Even the old, really old, 85 or so year old, black preacher across the road carries. I've seen him more than once come out of his front door with his scattergun when a carload of city black youth make the mistake of pulling into his or our driveways. Country blacks here have zero use for or tolerance of the ghetto dregs trying to infest the area with their various forms of corruption. And since most everyone around here has a backhoe, front loader, or pond full of hungry turtles/catfish/crawfish... ::)