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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> What's wrong with my carb? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1369610563 Message started by Single_Spark on 05/26/13 at 16:22:43 |
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Title: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 05/26/13 at 16:22:43 Hello, everyone! I was recently given an '87 Savage that had been sitting for 4 years in a garage. The bike's chain tension adjuster had worn out. I fixed that with a new one and cam chain, had the valves set and carb cleaned. I also swapped the stock petcock for the raptor. Everything should be good to go. When I put the gas tank back on the bike, I installed an in-line fuel filter and connected the fuel line to the carb. NO FUEL FLOW. Okay, I took the fuel line off the carb, and gas started flowing. So, I know there's no blockage in the fuel line. I reconnected the gas line and loosened the bolt on the carb bowl, and gas started coming through the line. As soon as I tightened the bolt back, fuel stopped flowing. The bike sounds like it wants to start, but it's just not getting enough fuel. The fact that fuel is in the bowl makes me think there's no blockage in the carb, but I don't know what else would keep the fuel from flowing into the carb. Any advice? |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 05/26/13 at 16:31:54 I should add that when trying to start, the fuel in the bowl and up to the fuel filter is burned, but then no more fuel flows through the line. The bike still hasn't started. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Serowbot on 05/26/13 at 17:12:16 Sounds like your vent tubes are blocked... :-?... ...(when you open the bowl drain, it's releasing the vacuum and letting the fuel flow into the bowl)... http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/vents001.jpg |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 05/26/13 at 19:18:39 The vent tubes weren't on it when I got the bike, and air seems to move through the carburetor just fine. I plan on getting some tubing for the vent lines, but I don't know where they are routed to. Do they just go up under the tank? Do I really need them? Also, Oldfeller had a post in the "Raptor Petcock Issue" thread about hose sizes that seems to explain my issue. Air won't come out of the fuel filter up into the tank like I need it to. I'm too scared to take the carburetor apart and clean it myself. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Charon on 05/26/13 at 19:54:10 My first trial would be to remove the fuel filter and replace it with some sort of tubing, or replace the whole fuel line minus the filter. If the bike then starts and runs (your original post said the carburetor was cleaned) you know the filter is the problem. From the experimenting I did with filters, I would try to mount the filter in such a way that fuel enters it from the bottom and the air in it can escape from the top toward the carburetor. Personally, I doubt the air in the filter can "backflow" back toward the tank, and I think it has to go out via the carburetor. Remember this is a gravity flow system, and the pressure is only about half a psi, less if the tank is low. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by HJH on 05/27/13 at 12:23:18 Could be crap inside the tank plugging up the screen atop the petcock if the bike has sat this long. The tank might have to be rinsed of varnish and/or scale and the screen blown clean. I had to do this three times on a previous bike that had sat in a barn for three years. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 05/27/13 at 14:21:34 Okay, so I got the bike started, but it doesn't want to idle without giving it a little throttle. Fuel doesn't seem to be flowing very well. I got all the rust out of the tank last week, so there shouldn't be anything big clogging up the raptor petcock screen. And the fuel filter looks clean. I had to completely block off the carburetor vents to get it started. Any ideas? |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by apache snow on 05/27/13 at 14:32:51 The carb vents equilize the pressure in the carb bowl. Not a good idea to block them off. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Charon on 05/27/13 at 14:49:35 It isn't a matter of the fuel filter being clean. The filter is full of air, which is blocking the fuel flow. As I said before, remove the filter and try it. If it runs, you will have to do something else with the filter. In my earlier experimenting I used a small fuel tank (from a Toro SnoPup, if you care) with a few inches of clear fuel line and a filter. The line and filter hung straight down from the tank, with the outlet of the filter dumping into a catch funnel and gas can. I blocked the outlet of the filter with my finger, poured the tank full of gas, unblocked the filter outlet, and NO FUEL FLOWED. When I bent the fuel line so the filter pointed up, fuel flowed into the bottom and displaced the air, and then fuel flowed as it should. You may take the results of the experiment for what they are worth. I point out that the reason for the experiment in the first place involved an attempt to install a fuel filter in a Honda Elite 80 scooter. It ran until its fuel tank was half empty, then quit. Filling the tank made it run again. Removing the filter solved the problem. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 05/27/13 at 15:14:28 I will have to try that. I scares me a little to not have a fuel filter on, though. Maybe I'll have to rig something up so it sits upside down like you said. Where should my carb vent tubes run? I haven't seen anything on where they are routed to other than "under the tank." It is very exciting to see this bike actually start, though! |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by apache snow on 05/27/13 at 15:17:47 You have a filter on the raptor. :) |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Routy on 05/27/13 at 16:02:38 Nothing in your posts ever convinced me that the fuel flow ever quit. If you loosen the plug in the bottom of the bowl and no fuel comes out, then yes, the fuel flow really did stop. Many here think because the see an air space in the FF, that the flow has stopped, when really it is flowing right on thru the air space. My FF always has an air space in it, doesn't hurt a thing. It is impossible for the fuel line w/ a FF to get air locked, if the carb bowl is vented. Tou keep asking where the vents go. That is what Serow pic shows you, just run them under the tank to the frame. |
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Title: Carb venting Post by Single_Spark on 05/27/13 at 19:28:10 My savage started for the first time in 4 years today! That's awesome! What's not awesome- it will only start if the carburetor vents are plugged. I have swapped fuel lines (one w/ a filter and one w/o a filter) and that didn't change anything. Even with the vents plugged, the bike would not run if I wasn't giving it some throttle. Like I said, this bike has been torn apart and sitting for the last 4 years. I just de-rusted the fuel tank, put a raptor on it and installed a new cam chain and adjuster. Do you think the carb just needs adjusting? I had it looked at about 4 weeks ago. It came back clean, so I don't think it's a clogged carb issue, but I could be wrong. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Serowbot on 05/28/13 at 07:56:40 There's no way blocking the vent tubes should fix anything... Something else is wrong... You need to route the vent tubes properly, up into the frame and un-block them... Then find the real problem... Can you post us a few pics of your carb?... installled, showing both sides?... |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 05/28/13 at 12:00:12 There is definitely something wrong. I'll try to post some pics when I get home from work. When the bike was running, I had to keep giving it throttle or it would immediately die. I'll grab some tubing for the vent lines today, too. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 05/28/13 at 21:20:56 I'll have to start a photobucket account or something to post pics tomorrow. I tried to start again today and something frightening happened. Gas started shooting out of the carburetor vents. Does this mean my float valve could be stuck? It was starting to get dark so I quit. Like a chump. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Digger on 05/29/13 at 20:37:14 33090E070C05331001120B600 wrote:
Yup. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 05/29/13 at 20:46:04 Update: Since gas was shooting out of the vent tube ports the last time I worked on the bike (the tubes were off), I figured the carb was flooded because of a stuck float valve and tapped the float bowl. I disconnected the fuel line and drained the carb of fuel, installed the vent tubes, reconnected the fuel line and tightened everything up. Bike still wouldn't start. Could the air/fuel mixture be so far off to keep the bike from starting? The air mix screw is stripped beyond belief, so there's no adjusting it. I also noticed the right side of the carburetor was wet with gas when I was looking at the air mix screw. It seemed it might have been slowly leaking out of the enrichment valve cover. I tightened all the screws on the cover and noticed one of them was fairly loose. If there was an air leak in this part of the carb, could that also be a possibility of why the bike won't start? I'm looking for a direction to go in since this is my first time working on a motorcycle (or engine, for that matter). THANK YOU GUYS FOR YOUR HELP!!! |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Marcial on 05/30/13 at 07:53:01 Although I can't give you any insight good luck figuring out what's wrong hope you're out riding soon. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 05/30/13 at 10:17:04 I'm having trouble finding the part number for the air mix screw. Anyone have it? |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by EJID on 05/30/13 at 12:02:28 According to the RonAyers fiche... Item #41 mfg part #13269-37400 their sku #187410 their price $7.36 Same part # for several years like most things on this model. http://www.ronayers.com/ProductDetails/N/687/SKU/187410 http://www.ronayers.com/WhereUsed/N/9935/PartNumber/13269-37400 http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/CARBURETOR/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/46/Year/2005/ModelID/6193/Model/LS650_S40/GroupID/251173/Group/CARBURETOR |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by apache snow on 05/30/13 at 15:19:52 These people are good to buy from. The screw is the same for all years. http://www.boulevardsuzuki.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=1442281&category=Motorcycles&make=SUZUKI&year=2011&fveh=39862 |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Routy on 05/30/13 at 16:33:21 Quote: I'm looking for a direction to go in since this is my first time working on a motorcycle (or engine, for that matter). ---------------------------------------------------------------- There has been a lot done to this bike, the carb, the cam chain, and the valves adjust, and from what you insinuated, it was not done by you. How do we know that the valve timing is correct, or that the valves were adjusted correctly. Any of these repairs or adjustments could cause the engine to not start, or run incorrectly. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by bigdawg on 05/30/13 at 20:41:08 Hi all i just got a 98 ls650 for the wife. I had the carb rebuilt and the bike fires right up my issue is that i get a fuel mist from carb air inlet. I think it is to rich but I am not 100% on that. Any thoughts? Thanks By inlet i mean where the air cleaner goes |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by verslagen1 on 05/30/13 at 20:54:44 idle speed might be low |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by bigdawg on 06/01/13 at 22:46:01 We made a air cleaner pipe for the bike and with it on the bike wont run. And what jet do you all run with Harley stock slip on exhaust? |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 06/06/13 at 11:27:39 Are air screws, springs, washers and brass plugs the same for all model years? |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Dave on 06/06/13 at 11:44:40 010A0407021404630 wrote:
Does your air cleaner pipe and adapters block off the vent hole? The vent is at the top of the inlet opening in this photo. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Dave on 06/06/13 at 11:46:27 4E74737A71784E6D7C6F761D0 wrote:
I beleive so....however the jets have changed a bit depending on year and where the bike was sold. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Bubba on 06/07/13 at 09:38:00 I'm just gonna throw this out there since no one has mentioned it... spark, if you have a raptor installed on the bike now you will need to block off the vacuum port on the carb (I used a small screw and then capped it with a rubber cap). It is on the right side of the carb near the enrichment valve... Is it blocked off? |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 06/07/13 at 10:56:17 Sure is. I used quik steel to cement a screw in tubing. Thanks, though! On another note, I tightened my TEV cover the other day (it was loose and seeping gas) and tried to start again. It ran for a few seconds before dying (forgot to turn the petcock on!) I flipped the petcock switch and tried to fire her up again. No start, just gas vomiting out of the drain tubes! My air filter had gas on it and a significant amount of fuel had run out of the tubes before I shut the petcock off again. I suppose this means I have a major blockage in my carb, correct? |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Bubba on 06/07/13 at 11:03:24 I was scared the first time I pulled my carb but it wasn't so bad...just lay it out on a clean shop rag, go really slow and keep everything in order...if it sat in a barn for 4 years it's probably all varnished up inside and just needs a good cleaning... Once you get the hang of it you'll be able to pull apart any carb and figure it out... If you're going to pull the carb then you should replace the screws on the top of the slide and the bottom of the bowl with allen head screws from ACE...makes it much easier to pull things apart later should you need to rejet it. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Digger on 06/07/13 at 20:39:03 003A3D343F360023322138530 wrote:
Do you mean the two carb vent lines? When dealing with machinery, the proper vocab is critical..... |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Digger on 06/07/13 at 20:41:35 5B61666F646D5B78697A63080 wrote:
Not really a blockage, more like an "openage" (as in float needle valve stuck open, most likely). |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 06/07/13 at 21:35:24 Not the vent lines from the carb. I had a suspicion the float valve might be stuck. I've knocked on the bowl plenty with no change. Is cleaning the carb thoroughly a good first step, or should I go the replacement route? I have to put in an order for the air screw anyway. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Dave on 06/08/13 at 04:54:41 43797E777C75436071627B100 wrote:
You should have clened the carb at the first sign of trouble. You stated the bike has sat 4 years, had rust in the tank, the carb overlfows, and the bike won't run......seems pretty obvious to me that you got a carb that is gummed up. Here is a thread that shows you what to do. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1191899985 Clean your carb and then report back....... |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by WD on 06/08/13 at 07:49:32 Dyna is the only major modification? Let's see, you're only a couple hundred feet, tops, above sea level... so the stock jetting is going to be some kind of lean already (guessing at the elevation, but I know the river is low enough to be affected by the ocean's tides even that far up stream, used to go to Sauvie Island a lot). And Portland gets the same low grade garbage gas as Seattle (tends to have water and sediment in it). If your T.E.V. cover was leaking, check the valve itself for cracks/pinholes, same with the slide diaphragm. Modern fuel does some not so friendly things to the synthetic rubber used in them. Sat up for 4 years? Have you gutted and dipped the carb yet? If not, you need to do so, any money and time thrown at a gummed up carb is a waste of both. Pull everything you can out of the main casting, go to NAPA or such and get a bucket of carb dip, soak the carb body for a couple days and then flush it with spray can carb or electrical cleaner until every small passage will cleanly flow. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 06/22/13 at 23:35:51 I finally got my air screw and components. I'll put everything back together tomorrow and try to fire her up. Excited! |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/23/13 at 06:20:40 WEll,, Dont be excited when ya start handling that air mix screw,, |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 06/23/13 at 18:08:37 The beast is back! I put the carb back on and did a final check of everything, and she started right up! I think my idle screw was set a little low before, and that might have been why it wouldn't stay running. My only concern is the little bit of white exhaust coming out of the middle of the pipe. Is this normal, or do I have an exhaust leak? |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Digger on 06/23/13 at 20:51:30 645E59505B52644756455C370 wrote:
Not normal. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 06/23/13 at 21:54:00 Here is the bike, by the way. http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p641/onesinglespark85/20130527_140809_zps46596b55.jpg |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Single_Spark on 06/30/13 at 23:06:43 I've had some more problems. It seems my clutch cable has stretched because no matter how I set it, the clutch lever doesn't return to its original position when I let go. Anyone have a reference t the correct length for this cable? I couldn't find it through searching, and I'm thinking about getting the DIY cable kit. Also, my carb started shooting out gas through the vent Ports again. After I had dipped the carb, I tested my float valve by keeping the bowl off and hooking the carb to the gas tank. I manually adjusted the float height and it shut off as it should. The valve itself, though, seems to have a little play in the pin height. It's slack through about 25% of it's traveling length, then there's resistance. I'm assuming that's not normal. |
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Title: Re: What's wrong with my carb? Post by Steve H on 07/01/13 at 09:48:09 If you keep getting junk clogging your float valve, you might try an inline fuel filter. I had float valves that flopped all over the place in their bore. As long as they seal well when they reach the end, I generally don't worry too much about that. You're, as you already know, having a problem with the float valve sealing and stoping fuel flow into the carb. Are you getting any junk out of it when you remove it? anything on the little screen above the seat? Seat and the little angled bit and the end of the moving part both in good condition? Make sure there are no little pinholes in the float itself. If it sinks, it won't cut off the fuel. |
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