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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> "Savage Capitalism" /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1369173419 Message started by Starlifter on 05/21/13 at 14:56:59 |
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Title: "Savage Capitalism" Post by Starlifter on 05/21/13 at 14:56:59 Pope criticizes "savage capitalism" in visit to food kitchen Source: Reuters (Reuters) - Pope Francis criticized what he called "savage capitalism" on a visit to a food kitchen on Tuesday, in an address in which he called for the values of generosity and charity to be revived. "A savage capitalism has taught the logic of profit at any cost, of giving in order to get, of exploitation without thinking of people... and we see the results in the crisis we are experiencing," the pope said. Francis greeted the men and women coming to the 'Gift of Maria' food kitchen, located at the walls of the Vatican. The first non-European pontiff in centuries, the Argentine-born pope last week called for financial reform, condemning a "dictatorship of the economy" and a "cult of money". Francis has set a simpler style for the papacy since taking office in March, shunning traditional ornate garments and living in a guest house instead of the Apostolic Palace. He has said he wants the 1.2-billion-member Catholic Church to defend the poor and to be more austere itself. You Go Francis!! |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by WebsterMark on 05/21/13 at 18:34:04 what do you can what the Pope says Mr. Atheist..... Glad you're going to take his lessons to heart. Assume we'll see you at the next anti-abortion march..... |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by srinath on 05/21/13 at 18:51:32 7F4D4A5B5C4D5A65495A43280 wrote:
That's because the message is right, regardless of the messenger or my allegiance to the messenger. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by Pine on 05/22/13 at 07:21:22 Hmmm,,, the Pope "almost" has it right ( he's right there is a problem and it is greed) I don't think it is as simple as the pope would like to portray... its not capitalism... its corporate capitalism (corpratism??) Let me explain how I derive that: Waayyy back before the USA was just a wet dream to some Spainard, a group approached the King of England with a new idea ( and currently un-supported by law) method for raising money and creating large financial projects: the corporation. The king was very dubious for two reasons: 1) these guys were smarter/more wary and 2) they wanted HIM as principal investor ( ie its HIS money). The King not being stupid then made a LAW: that all corporations must act at all times and in all cases with the shareholders best interest .. after all the shareholders collectively OWN the corporation. That law exists TODAY in every country with regards to corporations. Now, at its surface the law seems fair and just. The logic is not incorrect. But .. here hundreds of years later and we see the problem(s) that the law creates. 1) By stating that a corp must always put the best interest of the shareholder first, corporations are falling into a trap of attempting to always have ever increasing returns. Corporations faced with doing something with a human conscious/moral or shareholder interest MUST do whats in the best interest of the shareholder. 2) The corporation "runs" the business and makes the decisions. But really, the shareholders OWN the company. But when decisions are made that are counter to many moral ideals... shareholders are not held accountable. "No ONE is guilty of the decision.. because we let corporation make the decision". But the corporation must do what is best for shareholder... so really the decision IS made shareholders. So there it is. Examples abound.. but here s recent one that caught my attention. I own a 2009 Toyota Tacoma. In recent years Toyota has made many recalls.. many many recalls. They did this because Federal laws can make it very costly if a car maker knows there is an issue but does nothing about it. So what happened? The shareholders SUED Toyota for actions that cause stock prices to drop. That's right the SHAREHOLDERS did not want the corporation to admit to the issues because that dropped their stock value. AND THEY SUED based on the Law first put forth by the King of England. I am very much a capitalist... corporations... NOT so much. |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/22/13 at 17:14:12 Anyone making $$$ is a "Capitalist" according to their teaching,, They are as yet unable to distinguish corporatism & crony capitalism., & honest capitalism. Yet, every one here who hates capitalism wants to go to work & get paid,, its enough to make a sane man crazy.. |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by Starlifter on 05/22/13 at 18:19:16 I worked for the federal government for 43 years. I never paid a cent into Social Security and so I will never receive a cent from SS.... SS is an entitlement that I am NOT entitled to. Those who worked and PAID into SS for their entire working lives are ENTITLED to SS. Why do so many politicians call SS a free Gov. Handout when it's a benefit the workers EARNED, and in many instances it's the ONLY thing they will have to live on in their old age. BTW JOG as a Fed, am I a "Capitalist"?...just asking. |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/22/13 at 18:25:54 You realize just how out of context that is, right? Youre outta your mind, My post stands, You talk ill of capitalism, yet, you sold your time for $$$, & what is more capitalist than that? You wanted to get paid for your labor, You wanted a profit, at the end of the day. Then you go talking nuts about how eeevil capitalism is.. Much of what is called capitalism IS evil;,, but what you people cal;l capitalism IS NOT CApitalism,, its criminal behavior disguised AS capitalism. & because so few can manage to grasp the distinction,. most people ( the same people who fail to see the differences noted above) also fail to grasp the differences between money & currency & believe the fed is good.. YOu ARE intelligent enough to grasp it, yet, its like you all choose to remain in some kinda cloud of dumb,, |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by Midnightrider on 05/31/13 at 00:28:30 Star worked for the Federal Government and put his life on the line for us almost every day. His situation is different. He didn't work for Exxon Mobil or Goldman Sachs. You may not like his politics but he did more for his country and fellow countrymen than probably anyone on this forum. What he did for this country was good and a much needed service. He has a right to say the Fed is good just like we have right to say what we want to about the Feds. He has more experience working for them than we do. I get frustrated with the government all the time and I mouth off but not everything the Federal government does is wrong, they just don't do it my way LOL. |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by raydawg on 05/31/13 at 03:34:09 "Wealth without humility is toxic" look it up if you must, you either understand its implications, or you do't. |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by Midnightrider on 05/31/13 at 05:50:18 Humility and this forum go together like onions and pound cake. |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by LostArtist on 05/31/13 at 11:00:30 67787E7964635262526A78743F0D0 wrote:
that's because there's no such thing as honest capitalism, the free market in your head has never, and will never exist, people with money make the rules period. the scale may differ, but the concept is the same. it's not crony capitalism, it's crony democracy. |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/31/13 at 12:06:23 6F4B464C4B454A56504B464750220 wrote:
You will of course show me what Ohhh so scary country we have been protected from in the last, ohh, say,, 30 years? |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by Midnightrider on 05/31/13 at 17:08:46 Read it again Jog, I haven't said anything about a scary country. Star and I disagree a lot but I still like that dam Yankee LOL. We communicate on the side every now and then and he did a needed dangerous job for the government and that's all I'm ever gonna say about that. He's not the woosy liberal a lot of you think he is. He's seen more death than anyone on this forum, I fully understand why he no longer has any use for guns and war and I respect his opionion for those reasons. |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/31/13 at 21:48:04 I dont believe our military has been used for its proper intent since WWII. I owe no one a Thank YOu for their "service", I do wish to apologize to all of them for having been put in positions that the People of America didnt need them in as protectors of our rights & freedoms, WE had no business in any of these military excursions, IMO,. & BTW, I AM a vet. I joined in 73. Thats the point I was making,, OUr good people have been used & used wrongly, IMO.,. & what ever became of "To the victor go the spoils"? Or have we just not won in the last 40 or so years? I dunno, but I get NO "warm fuzzy" when I see our military. I USED to,, but,, seeing where we are & what we are doing took all that away.. |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by Starlifter on 06/01/13 at 14:21:38 "I owe no one a Thank YOU for their "service." ...well I owe you a thank you JOG....for your service. |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by Starlifter on 06/01/13 at 14:26:28 We had a saying way back when we were young soldiers and airmen... We the willing Led by the incompetent To do the unnecessary For the ungrateful. |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by Midnightrider on 06/01/13 at 20:03:10 I'm grateful for what you did and I'm glad you didn't come home in a bodybag. You were fighting a useless war that wasn't your fault, you just followed orders. |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by Midnightrider on 06/01/13 at 20:14:02 JOG I also would like to thank you. You might not believe in what you were doing but you gave up years of your life and for that I say thank you. |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by Starlifter on 06/01/13 at 20:44:06 March 21 2013 by Citizen Journalist Exchange DYING VETS LETTER TO GEORGE BUSH & thingy CHENEY NEEDS TO BE READ BY EVERY AMERICAN To: George W. Bush and D. Cheney From: Tomas Young I write this letter on the 10th anniversary of the Iraq War on behalf of my fellow Iraq War veterans. I write this letter on behalf of the 4,488 soldiers and Marines who died in Iraq. I write this letter on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of veterans who have been wounded and on behalf of those whose wounds, physical and psychological, have destroyed their lives. I am one of those gravely wounded. I was paralyzed in an insurgent ambush in 2004 in Sadr City. My life is coming to an end. I am living under hospice care. I write this letter on behalf of husbands and wives who have lost spouses, on behalf of children who have lost a parent, on behalf of the fathers and mothers who have lost sons and daughters and on behalf of those who care for the many thousands of my fellow veterans who have brain injuries. I write this letter on behalf of those veterans whose trauma and self-revulsion for what they have witnessed, endured and done in Iraq have led to suicide and on behalf of the active-duty soldiers and Marines who commit, on average, a suicide a day. I write this letter on behalf of the some 1 million Iraqi dead and on behalf of the countless Iraqi wounded. I write this letter on behalf of us all—the human detritus your war has left behind, those who will spend their lives in unending pain and grief. I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole. Your positions of authority, your millions of dollars of personal wealth, your public relations consultants, your privilege and your power cannot mask the hollowness of your character. You sent us to fight and die in Iraq after you, Mr. Cheney, dodged the draft in Vietnam, and you, Mr. Bush, went AWOL from your National Guard unit. Your cowardice and selfishness were established decades ago. You were not willing to risk yourselves for our nation but you sent hundreds of thousands of young men and women to be sacrificed in a senseless war with no more thought than it takes to put out the garbage. I joined the Army two days after the 9/11 attacks. I joined the Army because our country had been attacked. I wanted to strike back at those who had killed some 3,000 of my fellow citizens. I did not join the Army to go to Iraq, a country that had no part in the September 2001 attacks and did not pose a threat to its neighbors, much less to the United States. I did not join the Army to “liberate” Iraqis or to shut down mythical weapons-of-mass-destruction facilities or to implant what you cynically called “democracy” in Baghdad and the Middle East. I did not join the Army to rebuild Iraq, which at the time you told us could be paid for by Iraq’s oil revenues. Instead, this war has cost the United States over $3 trillion. I especially did not join the Army to carry out pre-emptive war. Pre-emptive war is illegal under international law. And as a soldier in Iraq I was, I now know, abetting your idiocy and your crimes. The Iraq War is the largest strategic blunder in U.S. history. It obliterated the balance of power in the Middle East. It installed a corrupt and brutal pro-Iranian government in Baghdad, one cemented in power through the use of torture, death squads and terror. And it has left Iran as the dominant force in the region. On every level—moral, strategic, military and economic—Iraq was a failure. And it was you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney, who started this war. It is you who should pay the consequences. —Tomas Young |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by Midnightrider on 06/01/13 at 21:05:33 I believe Bush and Cheney should be hung in public for war crimes. They should be tried for treason and murder. No wonder the rest of the world hates us. Under their leadership over a million innocent people died. Our leaders should not be above the law. |
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Title: Re: "Savage Capitalism" Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/02/13 at 20:43:10 “Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.” [ch8213] Henry Kissinger Henry Alfred Kissinger (/[ch712]k[ch618]s[ch618]nd[ch658][ch601]r/;[2] born Heinz Alfred Kissinger [ha[ch618]nts alf[ch641][ch603]t k[ch618]s[ch618][ch331][ch601][ch641]; May 27, 1923) is a German-born American writer, political scientist, diplomat, and businessman. A recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, he served as National Security Advisor and later concurrently as Secretary of State in the administrations of Presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford. After his term, his opinion was still sought by some subsequent US presidents and other world leaders. A proponent of Realpolitik, Kissinger played a prominent role in United States foreign policy between 1969 and 1977. During this period, he pioneered the policy of détente with the Soviet Union, orchestrated the opening of relations with the People's Republic of China, and negotiated the Paris Peace Accords, ending American involvement in the Vietnam War. Kissinger is still considered an influential public figure.[3][4] He is the founder and chairman of Kissinger Associates, an international consulting firm. He is a criminal who is & has been influencing policy for decades. He is one of the globalists, |
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