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Message started by JD on 05/15/13 at 10:36:14

Title: Battery Sluggish. New battery tips and info?
Post by JD on 05/15/13 at 10:36:14

What size would be good for my savage? I would like to move the battery box.

Could I use a rc lifepo4 battery?

Title: Re: Battery Sluggish. New battery tips and info?
Post by JD on 05/15/13 at 10:40:41

http://www.ebay.com/itm/A123-SYSTEMS-AHR32113-ULTRA-A-3-3V-4-4AH-High-Power-LiFePO4-Rechargeable-Battery-/130828944895?pt=US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item1e760345ff

Could I use 4 of these cells running parallel?

Title: Re: Battery Sluggish. New battery tips and info?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/15/13 at 10:54:09

In parallel youd have the voltage of one cell, 3.3 volts.
Series, 13.2 volts, but only 4.4 AH current capacity.
In parallel current adds, youd have 17.6 ah @ 3.3 volts

You can build a battery using these cells,

Title: Re: Battery Sluggish. New battery tips and info?
Post by JD on 05/15/13 at 10:57:26

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__26054__ZIPPY_Flightmax_4200mAh_4S2P_30C_LiFePo4_Pack_USA_Warehouse_.html

Something like this is a pre-made pack. Which for 40 dollars is pretty cheap. It uses lifepo4 packs and can handle a maximum discharge of 168 amps.

Title: Re: Battery Sluggish. New battery tips and info?
Post by Dave on 05/15/13 at 11:21:15

I don't see any reason to try and use RC batteries in a motorcycle.

If you wnat small and light.....buy an EarthX battery or equivalent.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1367347004/6#6

Title: Re: Battery Sluggish. New battery tips and info?
Post by JD on 05/15/13 at 11:30:51

True that a rc application battery is not ideal for a motorcycle but since I am a electrical engineering student im wanting to do something interesting on my bike. I want to build a portfolio of projects. Im currently doing led lights for my bike. In the process of soldering atm.

Title: Re: Battery Sluggish. New battery tips and info?
Post by JD on 05/15/13 at 11:36:17

http://earthxmotorsports.com/products-page/cbr1000/etx12a/

The detailed specs of a etx12a battery. The cca is lower than what the rc battery can do.

Im going to experiment with some battery solutions. If they wont act as a starting battery they might be able to be used as a portable jump pack incase the lights are left on.

In the mean time can anybody give me info on what the worst thing that could happen would be?(besides being stuck on the side of the road.)

Title: Re: Battery Sluggish. New battery tips and info?
Post by verslagen1 on 05/15/13 at 11:47:25

4A717C6B7A766D6B7078756A190 wrote:

I don't see any reason to try and use RC batteries in a motorcycle.

While I agree, I don't see any reason why you couldn't.
The caveat here would be that RC batteries are made for "attended" charging. And at some point you're going to need to balance the battery pack.

Whereas the earthx battery has this functionally built in.

You would need 2 of the RC packs as opposed to the earthx battery for the same capacity. Mod's for the hook up and balancing and you're back to the cost of the earthx.

Title: Re: Battery Sluggish. New battery tips and info?
Post by Dave on 05/16/13 at 04:53:33

I don't know enough about how RC batteries are designed to know if they would work in a motorcycle.

A motorcycle battery sits idle for a period of time, then is asked to provide a strong supply of power for a breif period to run the starter.....then is asked to act as a buffer between the charging system and electric devices when the motorcycle engine is running.

An RC battery is charged, then asked to supply power for an extended period of time at a failry constant rate.....often untill the battery is run to a low state of charge. Then the battery is recharged.

I just don't know if RC batteries are able to operate well in a motorcycle where they are constanly receiving a charge when the bike is running.

For me the project was mofifying the bike to fit my quirks.....and I trusted a company to build the battery, foot pegs, speedomeer, and other parts I could buy....and I built the ones I could not buy.! If the battery is a project for you.....then just keep us posted on how it works out.

Title: Re: Battery Sluggish. New battery tips and info?
Post by Charon on 05/16/13 at 05:13:36

I suppose the idea of assembling a battery from several smaller batteries has the feature that it can be "distributed." That is, with suitable cabling, part of the battery could hide under the tank, part under the seat, part on the emissions bracket, and so on. That way there is no single bulky piece to hide. The drawback is that the cables have to be able to handle the current. Perhaps they could be run through a piece of metal electrical conduit, bent and painted to mimic a frame tube.

Title: Re: Battery Sluggish. New battery tips and info?
Post by JD on 05/16/13 at 07:11:22

I also found that the amp rating for the earthx is in sla amp hours which its equivalent in lithium is 4-6 ah.

So when they say its 12 amp hour this is infact incorrect. Its actually 4-6 amp hours.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48062

I might build a pack with headway cells. They use the cells for electric bikes. A true 10 amp hour cell with 4 in series which results in a huge battery pack with a fraction of the weight.

Title: Re: Battery Sluggish. New battery tips and info?
Post by Dave on 05/16/13 at 07:32:04

The claim is that although a Lead Acid battery might be rated at 12 AH, the battery can only provide about a third of that power, and as you crank the available voltage drops off steadily. THe LI-Ion batteries are supposed to be able to deliver all of the AH and the voltage does not drop off until the very end....and then it plummets. Their claims are that their 12AH Li-Ion battery is equivalent to the performance of a Lead Acid battery with a 12AH rating. It is kind of an apples to orange comparison.....however the result is that they will both crank an equivalent length of time.

The bottom line for me is that if your bike is tuned well and you don't leave your headlight on accidently.....the EarthX battery does a great job and starts the bike easily. I only ride in temperaturs above 50 degrees, so I can't tell you what happens if your bikes sits outside and you ride when it is 10 degrees. When I hit my starter button my bike starts in less than 3 or 4 turns......I probably could use a much smaller battery and still be fine.

Here is the supporting propoganda from EarthX.

Lithium batteries voltage remains relatively constant while discharging, while voltage for a lead-acid battery decreases. A lithium battery can use 100% of its storage capability (measured as Amp-Hour, Ah), while a lead-acid battery typically only uses 30%. Lithium battery’s cranking power will not drop-off, and it will crank your engine longer. But when the lithium battery runs out of power it does so abruptly. Just like your lithium powered hand tools. LiFePO4 cells by the nature of their chemistry are 3.3 volt. 12V lithium batteries, like our motorsport batteries, are created by using 4 cells in series (technically it is a 13.2 volt battery). The lithium cells (in series) in a 12V battery pack diverge in both levels of charge and capacity with each charge/discharge cycle. This condition reduces the performance of the battery (reduces capacity) and can lead to overcharging or over discharging a cell. A cell is permanently damaged if over charged or over discharged just one time. In the case of overcharging, cells can rupture, and the entire battery will need to be replaced. Inside every one of our batteries is a microprocessor Battery Management System (BMS) that monitors the charge level of each cell and balances the charge when needed, protecting the cells from overcharge or over discharge