|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Positive Connector Shorted /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1368570545 Message started by Arnold on 05/14/13 at 15:29:05 |
|
Title: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Arnold on 05/14/13 at 15:29:05 Ok, here we go, will try to explain as best I can. Last night, left work, all working fine then suddenly on the highway bike started sputtering, losing power, horrible back firing when giving gas. I had to ride back home at pretty much idle speed, every time I gave it gas it would cut out, sputter and back fire. Idle was fine. At first I figured the main jet was clogged but pilot needle was clean. Now, earlier today, I get ready to start draining the gas out of the tank, ready to clean all fuel lines and possibly take carb apart. Suddenly looking around, I come to find out the positive connector on the battery must have come lose or broke while riding, shorted out, touched the battery box and basically melted the connector. My questions are: - what did I take down in that incident? Battery or possibly stator? Battery still has juice though. - what would be the symptoms of the positive connector becoming unhooked while riding? |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Steve H on 05/14/13 at 15:40:25 If it still runs, probably didn't hurt much. I'm not 100%, but I think the regulator/rectifier would probably go before then stator. You might want to check charging voltage. Sounds like the battery survived if it still has power. It might be low though. My opinions are subject to being corrected by those more in the know than I, though. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by verslagen1 on 05/14/13 at 15:41:45 Quote:
IDK, don't happen every day, start it and hope for the best. Quote:
sudden sputtering, loss of power, and horrible back firing when giving gas. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Steve H on 05/14/13 at 15:51:47 Does it still sputter and backfire after repairing the connection? |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Arnold on 05/14/13 at 15:53:52 The way I know the battery has some juice left is I got a pretty good shock trying to figure out how it melted the connector. (I touched + and cable box haha) Wont start right now though, no power, obviously because + is not hooked up, I need to get a new connector, tighten everything back up and I'll give it a try. Probably will have to wait until this weekend but I'll report. Live and learn, give plenty of clearance to battery connectors :) Thanks guys. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by verslagen1 on 05/14/13 at 15:55:55 disconnect - connector 1st. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Arnold on 05/14/13 at 15:58:35 372C75767770727D440 wrote:
Not sure yet, the connector melted off, + on battery goes nowhere right now. But since it never happened to me before I was wondering what the symptoms would be. Hopefully repair the connection, secure this time :) then I'll be riding again and didnt do any other damages. Weird though, all symptoms pointed toward fuel delivery problem. Visual inspection proved otherwise... |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Arnold on 05/14/13 at 16:01:24 485B4C4D525F595B500F3E0 wrote:
Yea, I'll remove the battery all together, test the voltage and redo the connection securely again. Right now only negative is connected, nothing on the positive, will it harm the battery or should I disconnect negative too in the meantime? |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by verslagen1 on 05/14/13 at 16:04:14 3E2B3033333A2B3A2D5F0 wrote:
no, it's ok. that's the way it sits every day of it's life. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Arnold on 05/14/13 at 17:00:27 Ok, yea basically inert. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by runwyrlph on 05/15/13 at 05:19:00 25302B282821302136440 wrote:
12 V DC gives you quite a jolt :-? |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Arnold on 05/15/13 at 05:30:39 Hopefully can find a connector at local autozone. I see ebay has the wire assembly that go from battery to solenoid for like 2 bucks. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by apache snow on 05/15/13 at 06:14:28 yeah I've been fooling with, working on, changing out batteries for over 50 years and have never been shocked by one. Even the 24 volt systems that the Army uses. :-? Can't say the same for spark plugs though. :o |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Arnold on 05/15/13 at 06:27:08 Man, I remember as a kid on a dirt bike, throttle cable broke in the sleeve, stuck at full throttle. So here I am stuck on a dirt bike going full speed with no way to turn it off, no battery, no key, no kill switch. Had to pull the spark plug wire, man what a shock you get from there... |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Routy on 05/15/13 at 07:06:16 Did you know that these bikes run on battery ignition ? That mite better explain the symptoms caused by an interuption or shorting of the pos cable connection. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Arnold on 05/15/13 at 07:22:39 Yea, every time I was trying to rev it would completely cut out, guess I was not just losing the engine but also all electrical. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by SALB on 05/15/13 at 11:40:25 5948595B505D4B56574F380 wrote:
I can tell you first hand that 6 batteries wired in series parallel for 24 volts is enough to weld a 1/2" drive ratchet permanently into a breaker bar. ::) |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by apache snow on 05/15/13 at 13:54:39 used to wire up six batteries in M48A3 tanks all the time back in the day, still wouldn't give a shock. :-? A 12 volt will weld a wrench. :o |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by SALB on 05/15/13 at 15:03:36 362736343F3224393820570 wrote:
No, 24 volt from 6 batteries in the M1A1. It's actually the amps that do the welding. They still had some of the old M48 based bridge launchers around when I was in....talk about a pain getting the batteries in and out! |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Arnold on 05/15/13 at 16:04:03 Ok, removed the battery, positive pole is melted some :) Wire is messed up a bit, shield is cracked, old and the negative is pretty bad too. Ordered both used from ebay, 5 bucks each. Will be down for a few days. No wire or anything else seems burnt visually. Battery still had plenty of juice on voltmeter. Should be alright once I put it back together. I think culprit is battery so darn heavy, (the dry AGM one), that it moves side to side, vibrates, etc... eventually put some stress on the connectors. I hate that battery box. Perhaps I need to look into a lithium solution, they seems super light. Then I can remove the battery box, wrap the battery somewhere on the frame and forget about it. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by EeeSkwa on 05/20/13 at 14:50:48 I had a this same problem with my 87 savage which will not start now. Pretty sure that I had a short cause there was smoke shooting out from the end of the bolt connected to the starting motor wire where it connects to the solenoid. It melted that area pretty badly. I fixed the short (replaced the fuses, made sure the battery itself was not grounding out against the frame and checked all the wires for frayed/damaged edges) and the ignition fires fine now, but the engine doesn't turn. Do you think I damaged/need to replace the solenoid or should check for a better spark? |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Steve H on 05/20/13 at 16:00:33 Jump the positive straight to the starter power input on the motor. If the engine spins then, you probably got a bad solenoid. If the starter doesn't spin, you got a bad starter. This is, of course, assuming that the neg is connected well to the frame where it should be. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Arnold on 05/22/13 at 06:43:06 Ok, got my wires, put it back together and voila, it starts again, no other damage incurred. Need some fresh gas and I'll be back on the road in no time, once they stop announcing storms in NY that is. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Arnold on 05/28/13 at 05:02:00 I'm back on the road but, how do you guys prevent the battery from moving from side to side inside the battery box? A block of wood? I think that's what put some stress on the battery cables and snapped one off eventually. darn I hate this battery box, gonna have to shell $200 and go with EarthX. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Dave on 05/28/13 at 05:13:25 697C6764646D7C6D7A080 wrote:
If you have the stock battery.....why is it moving side to side? On my stock bike, stock battery, stock battery box.....the batttery was a snug fit and it was held securely and had no room to move around. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Arnold on 05/28/13 at 05:45:42 Well there you have it, I dont have the stock battery, got an AGM one. Slighty different shape but still heavy as hell, I noticed it moves a little bit from side to side. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by apache snow on 05/28/13 at 05:57:21 The correct AMG battery is a 14AHL-BS. Same size, terminals in the correct position and correct amp hour. :) |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by 12Bravo on 05/28/13 at 06:14:10 6F7E6F6D666B7D6061790E0 wrote:
And the 14AHL-BS AGM was a tight fit in the battery box on mine. No worries about any movement. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Arnold on 05/28/13 at 06:20:34 Well next move is EXT18B. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by arteacher on 05/28/13 at 07:27:57 43564D4E4E47564750220 wrote:
When I met my wife she had a Suzuki 50 step through, a 2-cycle single. Her younger brother was racing go-karts on fuel (methanol+ klotz + nitro). One day he borrowed the bike, which had no gas in it so he put fuel in it, and went to the store for something. He did not tell my wife he had done this and she picked me up after work on a real hot day. She mentioned it was not running right and that she had to keep it reved up or it would stall. Figuring that she was burning out the centrifugal clutch by doing that, I took over the driving, intending to put it out of gear and keeping the revs up. I stopped at a light, put it in neutral, gave it a little gas, and it went up to max RPM, just screaming. I turned the key off and it kept screaming away. I pulled the plug wire and got a hell of a jolt and burning my fingers, and it kept screaming, starting to make self destructive noises. It then occurred to me that it was deaseling, and I pushed it, still screaming, into a gas station. I asked for a plug wrench, but the stupid mechanic would not lend out his tools. The bike is still screaming away, and has gathered a small crowd of mechanics and passers buy.("Man, I haven't smelled that since I went to the drags!") The mechanic finally pulls the plug and the bike stops. He puts the plug back in (cross threaded) and I push it the 5 blocks to her place. Her dad fixed it. (major bore out, new piston, push rod, rings, head, and clutch) We drove it for 2 years after that. She got her (unintentional) revenge though. She borrowed his 175 dirt bike, (2 stroke) which had a separate oil tank, for a weekend. She put gas in it but forgot all about the oil. Bore, piston and rings. ::) |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Digger on 05/28/13 at 18:58:00 02170C0F0F06170611630 wrote:
Since it has a sealed battery in there, I'd put some open cell foam rubber in the box to keep the battery from bouncing around. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Digger on 05/28/13 at 19:01:08 313A3A333F30312B2A5E0 wrote:
When I met my wife she had a Suzuki 50 step through, a 2-cycle single. Her younger brother was racing go-karts on fuel (methanol+ klotz + nitro). One day he borrowed the bike, which had no gas in it so he put fuel in it, and went to the store for something. He did not tell my wife he had done this and she picked me up after work on a real hot day. She mentioned it was not running right and that she had to keep it reved up or it would stall. Figuring that she was burning out the centrifugal clutch by doing that, I took over the driving, intending to put it out of gear and keeping the revs up. I stopped at a light, put it in neutral, gave it a little gas, and it went up to max RPM, just screaming. I turned the key off and it kept screaming away. I pulled the plug wire and got a hell of a jolt and burning my fingers, and it kept screaming, starting to make self destructive noises. It then occurred to me that it was deaseling, and I pushed it, still screaming, into a gas station. I asked for a plug wrench, but the stupid mechanic would not lend out his tools. The bike is still screaming away, and has gathered a small crowd of mechanics and passers buy.("Man, I haven't smelled that since I went to the drags!") The mechanic finally pulls the plug and the bike stops. He puts the plug back in (cross threaded) and I push it the 5 blocks to her place. Her dad fixed it. (major bore out, new piston, push rod, rings, head, and clutch) We drove it for 2 years after that. She got her (unintentional) revenge though. She borrowed his 175 dirt bike, (2 stroke) which had a separate oil tank, for a weekend. She put gas in it but forgot all about the oil. Bore, piston and rings. ::)[/quote] I've had some "screaming its guts out" incidents with two strokes over the years. I think the best thing to do is to suck it up, pull the clutch lever in, mash it into second, and feather the clutch out. The engine should die then..... However, in your case (centrifugal clutch), kicking it into gear may have triggered the mother of all loop-outs! |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by verslagen1 on 05/28/13 at 19:11:04 what about carefully feeding it a stream of water? not enough to drown it, but enough to cool it down and kill the hot spot. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Serowbot on 05/28/13 at 19:16:43 manual pets are nice... ;D... |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by Digger on 05/28/13 at 19:20:01 293F28352D38352E5A0 wrote:
I've actually seen where killing the fuel flow causes it to scream even worse....and on a two-stroke using pre-mix, now you're threatened with a seizure (lack of oil to a screaming top end).... BTDT! |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by apache snow on 05/28/13 at 19:28:01 So you are saying it will run without fuel. Some one ought to patten that. :-? |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/28/13 at 20:08:35 As a 2 stroke starts running outta gas it goes lean & the RPMs go up for a short while. YOu run model airplanes & get them set "right" on fuel as its flying, cramming air in the intake & Then it starts starving when the tank goes dry & they do scream,, & yes, on a newish engine, you risk seizing the piston. I did that on one & it did seize. Motor stopped so fast the crank snapped off & the propeller left, along with a short piece of crank,. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by arteacher on 06/02/13 at 08:18:30 Strangest thing that ever happened to me while running model planes: I was running an .049 with a spring starter on a combat plane and the spring caught in the prop and started the engine running backwards. Smack!! |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by arteacher on 06/02/13 at 08:25:02 3325322F37222F34400 wrote:
The petcock kind of slipped my mind at the time. :-[ I don't remember ever using the petcock. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by winterwalker on 06/24/13 at 13:13:58 435243414A47514C4D55220 wrote:
Question: AutoZone saddled me with a Magnapower/ Powersport AGM battery - think it was ETX15L or ETX15 - but definitely not 14AHL-BS. Any idea if what they gave me will work? I'd try it out, but my bike won't start at all right now and I'm trying to narrow down the issue. Thanks! |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by apache snow on 06/24/13 at 13:34:01 Don't know. The dimensions are a little different. The 14AHL-BS is 5.3 long by 6.57 high by 3.54 deep. The ETX15L is 5.9 long by 5.8 high by 3.4 deep. Will it fit the battery case and are the terminals in the correct position. :-? |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by verslagen1 on 06/24/13 at 13:38:53 IF it'll fit in the box, probably. But it's like asking a brain surgeon if you can play the piano after a long surgery. The "15" should have more cranking amps then a "14" |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by winterwalker on 06/24/13 at 14:07:04 746574767D70667B7A62150 wrote:
It does and they are! 52415657484543414A15240 wrote:
So if it fits (it does), would there be any concern about having the added cranking amps? Thanks! |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by verslagen1 on 06/24/13 at 14:19:34 26383F25342326303D3A3423510 wrote:
more the merrier, just means you can run the starter till it's a flaming puddle. |
|
Title: Re: Positive Connector Shorted Post by winterwalker on 06/26/13 at 06:36:18 415245445B5650525906370 wrote:
more the merrier, just means you can run the starter till it's a flaming puddle.[/quote] Haha! Cool. Thanks verslagen! |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |