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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> why does this have to be so difficult?¿? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1368374016 Message started by Boogieman on 05/12/13 at 08:53:33 |
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Title: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Boogieman on 05/12/13 at 08:53:33 alright I have a question for every single one of you... the picture attached is of the carburetor on my bike. my bike is a 2003 LS 650 Savage. when I remove the carburetor and take the top off and remove that weird vacuum needle slide assembly and look down into the carb at the air jets there are two, one big one small. Now, The Jets that are in there now are not air jets, their fuel jets a #55 pilot and #155 main. I know because I put them there and what I removed were also not air Jet's they were also nor air jets. I know the main air is supposed to be a 6mm hex. No one on earth can tell me what size pilot air jet goes in there. I've been getting this link a million times but that doesn't help me http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/CarbSpecs01web.jpg the reason being is because there's no pilot air jet listed for my year. now since I know there's a spot for a pilot air jet because I put the pilot fuel jet there in its place,,, WHAT IS THE DESIGNATION OF THE PILOT AIR JET SO I CAN GET ONE???? I DO NOT WISH TO KNOW ANY OTHER INFORMATION. I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT DIFFERENT CARBS IN DIFFERENT YEARS OF BIKES AND THIS AND THAT AND BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. ALL I NEED IS THE DESIGNATION OF THE PILOT JET BE IT #WHATEVER OR HEX WHATEVER. IN FACT, I DARE YOU TO TELL ME WHAT PILOT AIR JET SHOULD BE IN THERE WITHOUT GIVING ME A BUNCH OF OTHER INFORMATION THAT DOESN'T MATTER. I DARE YOU. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/12/13 at 09:47:49 The jets we replace are in the bowl, Have you changed something else? If so, turn around, go back to where ya came from & put it alll back like it was.. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Serowbot on 05/12/13 at 09:55:17 No JOG,.. there are "air jets"... in the top, above the slide diaphragm... I believe these regulate the amount of vacuum that is applied to pull the slide...(without them, the slide couldn't pull down)... Sorry Boogie, I don't have access to mine right now,... but, somebody will chime in shortly with your needed info... ;)... |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/12/13 at 09:58:44 Ohh, well,, Dooo pahdun MEEE!! I do sooo apologize for a talkin when I had no clue whut I wuzza talkin ABout.. do carry on,, :) |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Boogieman on 05/12/13 at 10:16:53 LOL¡!¡! Ahh i needed that. I was starting to get real frustrated for a while. i have to remind myself not to take things so personal. Nah ur alright Jog, im jst looking for some very specific information. actually I was able to get ahold of somebody and I think I have it down now. I'm about to go rebuild my carburetor right now. apparently there is actually two pilot air jets one looks like a pilot jet and the other one looks like a main jet but they're both pilot air jets and then there's the main air jet,, the air stuff is all up top, I just learned that today from Lancer. so I believe that the two pilot air jets are a #45 & a #230, and the main air jet is a #145. I have the Jets here in front of me, here is a picture, i'm about to go figure it out right now. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by ToesNose on 05/12/13 at 12:48:19 Also your bike as pictured won't work well in the vertical position no matter what jets you use ;D |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Boogieman on 05/12/13 at 16:47:17 haha yeah this is true. so this is what happened I took the top of the carburetor off and there is only 2 spots for air jets. so I called the local bike shop up and had them pull up a schematic of this carburetor. and lo and behold there is only 2 spots for jets. so we found that the pilot air jet for this carburetor is a #47 and the main air jet is a #230 (see picture). then I put the 155 Main and 55 w/bh where they are supposed to go in the bottom where the flow is. I should have taken a picture of the bottom and will when I take it apart again and I will post it because it doesn't look like any of the other pictures on this site. anyway it runs like a completely different bike. I tried tuning it but had to close the mixture screw completely (lean as possible). if I came out more than 1/4 turn the bike would bog way down, exhaust started smelling real nasty, and continuing to come out on the mixture screw killed it. so I think I'm going to go down one stage of fuel jets. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by apache snow on 05/12/13 at 16:56:53 Sounds like you are too rich on the #55 pilot jet and probably the 155 main as well. Thats strange as my bike with a stock exhaust and a K&N drop in filter will run fairly well on a 55 pilot with the mixture screw turned out 1.5 turns. I only have a 147.5 main though. I am at 500 ft above sea level. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/12/13 at 16:57:22 Hay! Lookie THERE!!! Jets! I Told you there was jets there! |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Bubba on 05/13/13 at 10:02:07 whaddayaknow...i never even remember seeing those little buggers when I was modding my white spacer... Boogieman, you really were replacing jets from the top...I stand corrected...but the jets I always replace are in the float bowl... I learn something new everyday... |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Boogieman on 05/13/13 at 10:27:27 Hahah! Yeah im finally starting to figure it out. I did end up finding some old posts of a guy who has a carburetor just like mine With some very good pictures of rebuilding it. Anyway someone should change the file floating around this forum that shows the stock carburetor settings for each year; anything newer than 1995 on that sheet shows no air pilot,,, that made things real confusing for me in the beginning. I do have a few more questions though,,, one that I always forget after messing with the needle and washers is to pay attention to that plate with a little dimple in it, is that dimple supposed to be facing up or down? hell you might not even be able to install it incorrectly because the way the holes are matched up. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Bubba on 05/13/13 at 10:41:48 bumps down...don't strip those screws!!! |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Bubba on 05/13/13 at 10:43:52 BTW, this is a great pictorial...I can't believe the pics are still there after all this time... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1191899985 |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by apache snow on 05/13/13 at 11:15:41 Accoring to the factory manual the dimple goes down on the spacer. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Boogieman on 05/13/13 at 11:18:25 Yep! That's the pictorial I was going off of. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Boogieman on 05/13/13 at 15:08:33 Dimple goes down, don't strip the screws, got it. Thnx everyone. Now I'm starting to get excited. Hey Apache Snow, i went down to my local bike shop today and got a few different main jets and had to order the smaller pilot. I'm really interested to see how my bike will run with your settings because we're close in year and elevation so i may leave the pilot in and swap the main... though that does totally seem weird. I don't see how leaving the 55bh in and swapping the main is going to let me back out on the mixture screw. whatever let's give it a try. oh and one more question,,, what is all of that nonsense underneath my tank? there's all kind of weird connectors and black circular looking electrical dodads underneath there. what can I rip out and what could I relocate do you think? I have a schematic but its kind of a crappy one. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by apache snow on 05/13/13 at 15:23:21 Right now I'm running a 52.5 Pilot with the screw turned out 2 &7/8 turns. I have ran a 55 pilot with the screw turned out 1 &1/2 to 1 &3/4. It ran pretty good but would spit back a little through the muffler when revved from idle. It does not do that with the 52.5 pilot. And I don't get much popping through the muffler. Just a little one every now and again. Heck as easy as they are to change just experiment. I've changed mine back and forth several times. I have my needle raised .030. I made my own spacer from a #4 nylon bushing. I need every thing under my tank. That box on top of the carb controls the decompression release. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Dane Allen on 05/14/13 at 14:20:47 3E33333B3539313D325C0 wrote:
Now that some of the dust has settled, I am curious how your vacuum line is plugged, I see the hex head in there but are you sure no air is getting by the threads? Did you use a sealant to seal the bolt threads airtight? |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Boogieman on 05/14/13 at 15:38:15 haha i never did get a straight answer. anyway no I wasn't sure so I went outside jst now and backed out the hex a bit, put some motorcycle gasket sealer on in and threaded it back in. it was actually my brother that made that modification I got the bike from him. So Dane u live in riverside ca? i live downtown about two or three blocks away from the community hospital. We should meet up and talk bike. its hard for me to get information thru messages, that's why it would be rad to have someone here in person to point and ask. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Dane Allen on 05/14/13 at 16:48:30 5B56565E505C545857390 wrote:
Definitely, will PM, but I am not the mechanic expert, just got my bike in March. :) |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by DavidOfMA on 05/14/13 at 19:52:34 435243414A47514C4D55220 wrote:
Hmm... just did this the other day and may have had the bump facing up on the plate, rather than down. What effect would doing it backward have on the functioning of the needle? Seems to run well in the mid-throttle range now, with three washers instead of the spacer, with the dimple however I left it, but at some point I'll be pulling the tank to do something, I'm sure, at which point I can check to see which way it's facing and change it if it makes a difference. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Boogieman on 05/14/13 at 20:20:49 yeah I'm also interested to know what the difference would be. and I think I might have installed mine dimple up also. actually what I'm trippin on is when I install that plate with the needle and spacers and all that, I actuate the needle up and down (i guess just to get acquainted with its movement) and noticed last time the needle head or clip or washers or whatever wud kinda get stuck. but I'm thinking that when its installed it doesn't move back and forth to have the chance to get stuck. yeah well there we go I guess I just answered my own question haha |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by apache snow on 05/15/13 at 06:36:06 It must be a reason if the factory manual went to the trouble of pointing it out. May be the two open holes don't line up right. You need these to get the correct vacuum under the diaphragm for the slide to work properly. http://imgur.com/a/knj1F |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Boogieman on 05/15/13 at 07:03:53 oh wow! i wish i had seen these pics two months ago. you know what I now remember that when I installed that plate, the little notches in it lined up with the two other screw holes. thats probably leaning out my mixture a bit. darn,, looks like I'm working on my carburetor today haha |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Dane Allen on 05/15/13 at 09:04:18 637263616A67716C6D75020 wrote:
Wait, the vacuum line is blocked off, is that the vacuum you are talking about...what petcock is on the tank? I'm still lost ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by apache snow on 05/15/13 at 09:10:23 5E7B747F5B76767F741A0 wrote:
Wait, the vacuum line is blocked off, if that is the vacuum you are talking about...what petcock is on the tank? I'm still lost ;D ;D[/quote] A CV carb (constant velocity) uses vacuum to raise the slide in the carb. Nothing to do with the petcock :) |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by verslagen1 on 05/15/13 at 09:11:49 5F7A757E5A77777E751B0 wrote:
Wait, the vacuum line is blocked off, if that is the vacuum you are talking about...what petcock is on the tank? I'm still lost ;D ;D[/quote] Not the vac line he's talking about. Somewhere, there's a great diagram showing how the air flows thru the carb. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Boogieman on 05/15/13 at 15:49:07 here's a pic of the plate properly seated. i dont know why my phone decided to crop half of it off. i dont know what the dimple would be for other than a marker used to tell u which side fits proper. I have installed it with the dimple up and wouldn't have know it was wrong by feel of the bike. I had my doubts because when you install it dimple up nothing really lines up very good. Anyway i reinstalled the orginal pilot (probably stock, the tops kind of messed up so I can't see any numbers), and dropped in a 152.5 main jst for fun... holy sh*t! way more power and a much much smoother power curve. only one little pop here and there when upshifting, nice smooth rumble on the way down. still get a backfire on shutdown. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by apache snow on 05/15/13 at 16:22:10 Numbers on the pilot jet are on the side right under the threads. And good its running better. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Boogieman on 05/15/13 at 16:59:02 oh the numbers are on the side? i'll check it out next time, that carburetors not coming off again today. actually I should clean out my shop and get some paintings done, im broke. oh thats another thing,,, I built a spray booth in my shop just big enough for a motorcycle. im pretty good with clear coat 'cause I use it to seal my paintings, but it would be nice to start shooting some solids and working on some bikes. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Gyrobob on 05/15/13 at 18:02:23 See response #68 in the Double RYCA Build thread here: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1304722902/60 http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Motorcycle/RYCA%20CS-1%20LS650%20S40%20Savage/LS650carblockplate01.jpg |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Boogieman on 05/15/13 at 19:03:57 Awesome thnx. but this just brings up more questions for me. For instance: That plate that holds the Jet needle (i have a Dina jet needle) and eclip and spacer etc,,, the bump on mine is nowhere near the center for it to be pushing down on any washer. as mine sits I just raise that eclip up to where the top of the spacer would be (spacer being that spacer mod everyones talking about shave down white spacer). so I could see how if the dimple sat closer to the center where the needle is it may be pushing down on that washer, but that's not even possible on mine. I am interested To know if I have the wrong plate or what. Secondly, that led me to an interesting thread where people were cutting the enrichment spring deeley.... so are you telling me that I should put my 55 w/bh back in and a 160main in there and just cut the spring? that sounded like it had some pretty nasty consequences when gone wrong. I guess it wouldn't really apply to me anyway seeing as how I couldn't get a proper Idle messing with mixture screw, had to close it all the way for the 55w/bh. And thirdly, that carb rebuild kit they're talking about,, would that happen to contain a new plate where the dimple is close to the center? actually what would that kit contain that I couldn't just take apart clean off and reuse? I could see how you would read this and think I'm an ass for asking the questions the way I do, but I'm actually just really intrigued. what else do you know that I don't know? |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by apache snow on 05/15/13 at 19:12:36 From the picture you posted, your plate is the stock plate. the dimple is in the same position as mine. I do not mess with the enrichment spring. I have never needed to. The only way I would take it apart is to clean it. But thats just me. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Boogieman on 05/15/13 at 19:44:17 oh wait im an idoit,, ya the dimple on my plate is all good. |
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Title: Re: why does this have to be so difficult?¿? Post by Bubba on 05/16/13 at 06:28:25 For what it's worth... When I was all into messing with this carb I had a guy on the forum send me a lighter spring for the enrichment valve (he had great luck with eliminating his backfire on shutdown)... Anyway, I installed it rather than cut my spring (which meant not going back)...bike ran like crap...smoked like crazy, no power etc, etc... I removed it... |
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