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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Lets talk about gear /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1367196521 Message started by TheSavagePJ on 04/28/13 at 17:48:41 |
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Title: Lets talk about gear Post by TheSavagePJ on 04/28/13 at 17:48:41 **Mods, since this post isn't directly related to the Savage, I wasn't sure if I should post it here or elsewhere. I couldn't find anywhere else it would fit. If I screwed up, everyone gang up on the new guy :) I was out enjoying the near-perfect weather we are having here in upstate NY, riding by myself, as I always do. Of course, I saw plenty of other bikers out there... guys in full gear thats probably worth more than my bike, the standard cookie-cutter Harley guys in their jean vests and brain buckets, obligatory crotch rockets and one guy I saw on a road king in flip flops, shorts, tank top and a full face helmet. Of course, I wanted to facepalm, but doing that while riding can be hazardous to your health. What I'm getting at is the importance of gear. I know most of you got this lecture thousands of times before, especially if you took the MSF safety course. However, if you didn't, you're about to hear it from a total noob. Dropping lots of money into your bike and making it truly yours is all fine and good, though many people forget to spend some of that money on quality gear. If the worst ever does happen, are you going to want Kevlar between you and the pavement, or that tattered jean vest that makes you feel like a hard biker dude? I won't go on forever about this, because I certainly could. We are all adults (according to our licenses anyhow) but I wanted to preface my questions to you guys with the reminder of how important it is to check over your gear for wear and tear, and don't take chances. If the soles are coming off your favorite boots, time for a new pair. That extra $100 COULD be the difference between walking away from a wreck with scrapes and bruises and not being able to walk at all, or worse. (On a side note, I am bringing this up because a good friend of mine from high school highsided this weekend. Though he's still at the hospital right now, he'll be back on his feet soon. In a nutshell, he's been riding for 7 years and he told me that if it wasn't for his gear, he'd most likely be dead. Needless to say, I'm a little shaken by this.) Now that we are all on the same page of how F****** IMPORTANT proper gear is, lets talk about our gear. Admittedly, my gear could be better. You will always see me with a full face helmet, leather motorcycle jacket (with minor padding in the shoulders and back, could be better), leather gloves, jeans and slightly higher than ankle boots that are sturdy but breathe really well. Overall, I'd give myself a C+, maybe a B-. Money, as always, is my biggest hurdle. Any recommendations? I have considered looking for secondhand gear, but even that comes with its own set of perils. Someone elses worn out gear isn't going to do squat for you if it comes down to it. What grade would you give yourself? How often are you actually thinking about the effectiveness of your gear? I'd like to know your take on gear. Every rider should have one, and if you haven't thought about the "what ifs" of riding, sorry mate, you shouldn't be riding at all. To everyone here, happy and safe riding. Most, if not all of you have families and people who care about you, so even if you tend to put your personal safety in less than top priority, make it your top priority for them. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by apache snow on 04/28/13 at 18:01:08 Been riding since the mid 50s. Never been down on the highway. Didn't worry about it then. Don't worry about it now. I don't dress to have a wreck. I ride not to. wear an HJC IS33 helmet with a flip up face shield, blue jeans, T shirt and leather shoes or boots in the summer. In the winter what ever it takes to keep warm. I will not be preached to about what I wear. Others are free to choose what they wear but not to tell me what I should wear. :) |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Serowbot on 04/28/13 at 18:05:08 Welp,... I always wear FF,.. and ankle boots... long pants and shirt... fingerless gloves... Temps under 90',... high quality snug v-pilot leather jacket... Temps go well past 100' here,... (I just can't do leather or armor in in that)... Something people don't consider enough,... is sun protection... a good sunblock, and long sleeves... (you don't move around that much on a bike, and can end up with a wicked burn)... Otherwisedly,... I'm not a huge fan of those hard foam armor pads...(face it,.. really, that's not armor, it's just foam and plastic)... but, it just don't stay in place... Sewn into heavy leather racing suits, yes,... but I've never seen it in a textile jacket I like.... I feel like I'm wearing a shipping box... :P... That's just me... :-?... ...(I just got teleported to the Cafe'... made me dizzy)... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by v-pilot on 04/28/13 at 18:40:39 I'm with Serow...ATGATT...My v-pilot leather and matching pants when below 85 (I run cold anyway) I have an armored mesh jacket and nylon armor pants for hotter weather and vented gloves and a Scorpion EXO-1000 FF |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by MMRanch on 04/28/13 at 22:22:27 Wow The best protection I can think of is to , get my brain in gear befor starting the motor , Suppect every situtation and other driver I meet, and doin't ever drive faster than my gardian angel can fly ! Everything else is just for my comfort. ;) |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by WD on 04/28/13 at 23:09:38 Winter gear is armor weight chaps and jacket, lined gauntlets, steel toed 17" high jackboots, 3/4 helmet. Warm weather gear is jeans, jackboots, unlined leather gloves, leather vest (maybe) and a half helmet. In a free choice state, lid less year round. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by ToesNose on 04/29/13 at 04:34:50 ATGATT for me, always including a full face helmet and 10" riding boots. Below 50 degrees- Leather jacket with winter liner & armor, leather riding pants, Gortex leather gloves, fitted neck wrap/dickie what ever they call them. 50 to 85 degrees- Leather jacket with TFL cool system & armor, jeans, leather gloves. 85 and up- Mesh riding jacket with armor, summer mesh gloves with armor points, jeans. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Dave on 04/29/13 at 04:43:50 My gear is pretty limited right now. Old used and out of certificaiton FF helmet from a drag reacer friend, leather jacket with shoulder and elbow armor, work boots. I plan on adding some gloves as your hands can really suffer while bouncing along the pavement, and I hope to get a better helmet. Serowbot......Glad you enjoyed the trip over to the Cafe! ;D |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by arteacher on 04/29/13 at 06:24:20 Cold weather- heavy leather jacket on a leather vest, jeans with leather chaps, engineer boots, heavy gloves, which I added pockets to for small hand warmers, and a face mask. Warm weather- mesh jacket with armor, light gloves, jeans, and over the ankle boots. I have four helmets. The one I wear the most is a Draxtar P-104 from Germany. It has a half face shield, and attenuates the noise to the point that I have to take it off to hear a conversation. I have a very nice Shoe (sp) FF, but it is a PITA to take on and off when you wear glasses, so I hardly ever use it. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by TheSavagePJ on 04/29/13 at 08:08:57 Arteacher, I know what you mean about helmets being a PITA when you wear glasses. My helmet of choice is an ATX FF that can flip up to be a 3/4, with polorized shades that can switch down and reduce glare. Very useful for us 4-eyed riders. Serowbot, that is one area where I completely agree with you. Many of armored choices in jackets and pants are bulky, chunky and just plain annoying. I'm not out to look like an Imperial Stormtrooper, I was just wondering if anybody found gear thats a good balance between armor and comfort? Any military or ex military guys know of anything? Apache, I don't mean to be preachy. What you wear is your choice, and if you feel confident in a t-shirt, so be it. I admit to wearing t shirts, as it does feel nice on those warm days. You've been riding long before I was even a twinkle in my parents eye, and I have little doubt of your abilities. Though the majority of your riding career, people didnt have smartphones, tablets, gps nav screens, or cup holders in cars. Most riders I know are usually very good drivers, its the other people out there I don't trust, especially after they had a couple drinks. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by groupus on 04/29/13 at 08:38:39 PLEASE READ: long post, sorry. So there have been a few discussions about gear recently and I am glad! I have been pretty disappointed in my own level of protection, but I am looking to remedy that this year and I hope all of you will too. My normal commuting attire in the past has been a FF helmet, jeans over dress pants, leather riding gloves, and a crash tested leather jacket. In colder weather I wear snowboarding pants, a winter coat and thicker gloves. After reading this article that was posted here in the cafe, I have really been motivated to upgrade. I hope you all read it too. http://www.rockthegear.org/index.php?/testimonials/view/brittany_morrow_the_roadrash_queen/ I can tell you from experience that jeans offer absolutely ZERO protection against pavement. Not all leather jackets are created equal either. Most department store jackets or motorcycle-style jackets are not thick or strong enough to handle a fall at even 15 mph. Again, i learned this. I also know that it's not the impact that hurts, it's the slide. Once you start to slide, and you will slide, you cannot stop it. Whatever part of you is being ground into the asphalt will have to take it until the slide stops on its own. And the things you will slide on most will be your hands, knees, shoulders (a reason to get gear for each!). I used to ride without a helmet sometimes or put it on the the backrest, but what good is that nice expensive helmet going to to do there? Wear it! You cannot predict which ride you are going to have an accident. Last time I took a low speed tumble on grass. I came to standing up, fully conscious, coherently talking to a police officer. Even with the cushion of the dirt and grass, I still bumped my head hard enough to black out :o. That's like taking a punch from a professional boxer, with the helmet! I could have been brain dead. If you think "oh, that won't happen to me, I'm a safe rider," or "I've been riding all my life and never blah blah blah," then you are truly stupid or just plain ignorant. Statistics are against you. The old adage that there are two types of riders is true: those who have and those who will. No matter how safe you think you are, you can never account for road conditions, other drivers, or just freak occurrences. My dad has been riding longer than I have been alive and he went down 2 years ago on some gravel that had accumulated in a corner. Very low speed, broke his lower leg. A couple of thousand dollars later and his leg still hurts. My buddy just got hit by a car. In the ER but ok. It happens, neither of them saw it coming or were able to do anything to prevent it. We all know someone who has died riding. I cannot say that gear could change any of these incidents, but it will never do more harm. Hindsight may be 20/20 but is worth f*ck-all after it has happened. Closing statements: Seriously, this stuff does not have to be expensive. A $50 KBC helmet will do just as good of a job as a $800 Arai for how we ride. I implore anyone reading this to please spend just $100 this year on some actual gear. If you don't have gloves, get a cheap pair. If you don't have an abrasion resistant jacket get one. Don't have a helmet? What the hell, man!? If you think you are stronger than steel and asphalt, don't think of gear as protection for yourself. Think of it as protection for your family and loved ones from the pain losing you, or the horror of watching your spend months in the ICU after being partially skinned alive on the highway, or having to feed you through a tube and empty your sh!t bag. I wouldn't wish that on anyone i know. Don't forget about the financial burden of hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical bills. Gear will look cheap after that. For anyone worried about price, check out motorcycle-superstore.com. Great prices and review on everything, plus they do returns! Seriously: FF helmets from $44 Pants less that $90 Jackets, plenty under $90 too For those worried about comfort, mesh is great for the summer and is more breathable than jeans (and no, its not see through). even taking the pads and armor out still gives you a lot of protection. Helmets are not uncomfortable, if it is, you got the wrong one. I actually stay cooler in my black helmet in the summer b/c it keeps the sun off and is vented. Worried about looks? seriously? do you care about how people think you look? Besides, you ride a motorcycle! you're already look cool! :D Would you rather dress up like pirate like harley guys do or be called a squid? Finally, I don't want to criticize anyone here, and of course, it's your choice. I want everyone to be safe so you can continue to post here and be a part of this great community! I will never stop riding, but I have absolutely no reason not to protect myself. What's your excuse? |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by verslagen1 on 04/29/13 at 08:54:19 I wear a tour master Jett textile jacket and love it. It fits well, has the armor, zip out liner and vents. It's great for all but the hottest CA days. For which I'll don a mesh jacket. A 3rd Jacket is a Cortech Pac coast in leather. I'm very happy with the way they all fit. The Jett is a little worse for the wear, but I'm not ;D As far as the lower half goes, mostly jeans, textile over pants for the cold mornings. hiking or work boots (over ankle) for all day comfort, or over calf boots for the commute. Also have a pair of leather legs to wear with the short boots when the day ride is going to be a stone throwing competition. It's hard to enjoy a cervesa with a busted cabesa so I wear a Z1R FF most of the time. But I can't fit that in my luggage so I also have a Scorpion half helmet. Which is great for around town too. Bearly tolerable at superslab speeds though. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by apache snow on 04/29/13 at 09:19:28 293E2B3E23393C4C0 wrote:
Well here's another one who thinks that they need to tell every one whats best for them and how to live their lives, :o...So you have the nerve to call someone you don't know stupid. >:( Hell, you are way beyond preaching and gone to getting personal now. I have been riding for around 56 years. In the early years we didn't wear helmets. No one did. Every one I know who rode then survived, I have made it all these years with out crashing because I have the mindset not to. You can go peddle your I'm smarter than you and know whats best for you attitude some where else. You must work for the government. :D If I get so scared I have to put on a suit of armor to ride my motorcycle, I will just quit riding. 8-) I've been involved in things way more dangerious than riding a motorcycle. Thus my screen name apache snow http://www.b2501airborne.com/APACHE_SNOW.htm |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Serowbot on 04/29/13 at 10:10:39 Is it getting hot in here?... :-?... On the lighter side... Going on a few suggestions from this site (maybe somebody's foolin' with me)... I bought a pair of nylons a couple of months ago... (they're supposed to stop my jeans from draggin' against my sticky, sweaty, legs and body hair)...(you get that a lot here in the summer swelter)... So,.. I have them,... The first decision, was whether to buy nude, or black,...(Hmmm?.. which is more manly?)... I went with black... I haven't found the courage to try them yet,... I just keep flashing to an image of me in an ER, trying to explain my black nylons... But,... if it really helps with cooling and stickiness,... I may become a convert... "crossvert?"... We'll see... (don't worry,... I'll spare you the pics)... :-?... Rock the gear... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by apache snow on 04/29/13 at 10:27:22 That reminds me, did you hear about the cross dresser? He was often a broad. ;D |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by dinsdale on 04/29/13 at 10:29:26 HJC is-16 FF helmet all the time Neck Gaiter for 30F - 50F Tourmaster Coaster II Leather Jacket in all weather from 30 F to 105 F Liner in plus warm base layer for cold days. Looking for a good mesh jacket for the over 85 F days. Tourmaster Venture Air pants over work pants or shorts depending on temperature. Liner in for 30F-50F, just rainproof liner from 50F-70F, Just mesh after that. Cruiser insulated gauntlets with glove liner from 30F to 50 F Just the gauntlet from 50 F to 70 F Short leather sport bike gloves with hard knuckle protection over 70 F Looking for a decent mesh glove with sturdy construction for hot days. 5.11 Tactical HRT Water Proof Boots all the time. I commute 75 miles a day from April through November. As soon as snow is gone to when snow arrives , as long as it isn't raining in morning when I leave, I'm on the bike. I wear my gear as the commute can get hairy with distracted drivers all over. I seldom get the chance to ride for purely pleasure and when I do, I usually wear all my gear. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Greg on 04/29/13 at 10:41:44 FF helmet in winter. 3/4 helmet above 40*F. Half helmet above 70*F or so. I am contemplating my 3/4 helmet all summer. I like it better than my half helmet. It is an old school, low profile silver metal flake. I will see how it feels as it warms up. Gloves when it is below 60. Naked hands above. Jeans. Long underwear in the winter. Leather jacket in the winter, denim in spring and fall, denim vest in the summer. I only own one pair of shoes. They are work boots. I wear them winter and summer. Having said all that, I would actually like to find a leather jacket that fits a manly sized man that wouldn't have me melting. I keep looking but no one stocks anything and all but one leather jacket has been sent back. The one I have is actually too big but I got it to wear my layers under it for the winter. It is the standard "biker jacket" style. I would like something different that fits correctly and is unlined for spring and summer. None of these decisions are based on anything aside from what I feel comfortable wearing. If I am physically uncomfortable, I will be distracted and probably cause an accident. We are all adults here. People can wear or not wear what they choose unless the state has a say. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Pine on 04/29/13 at 12:58:35 I always wear my 3/4 with face shield. I now have a 1/2 flip up tint shield as well. I keep two sets of golves in my saddle bags, finger-less and cold weather. I have three jackets, a "summer joy" from joe rocket for warm weather and two leather jackets. Mostly I wear the leather. I just bought my first set of chaps. But these are for cold weather. I always wear pants, but I have to wear slacks to work, so thats not exactly protection. I will consider wearing the chaps during the summer...but that will probably prove too hot. I always wear boots. They are just cheap steel toed walmart boots. But they cover my ankles and should be good for a pretty serious fall. So my most protected parts are my head and my feet???? |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by bill67 on 04/29/13 at 13:04:22 4958494B404D5B46475F280 wrote:
+1 my wife rode her motorcycle with shorts when It was real hot.She never went down in over 40,000 miles, She was 5'2 105 pounds.Bikes Yamaha SR500 Suzuki GN400 Suzuki GR 650 |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by groupus on 04/29/13 at 13:12:23 Apache, That is exactly the response I was hoping to avoid. My words were certainly NOT directed at anyone specific. Please know that I respect your opinion and your right to wear or not wear what you like. That is exactly why I ended my little rant with "I don't want to criticize anyone here, and of course, it's your choice." I also recognize that in your years on this earth, you certainly have more knowledge and experience than me. You're a soldier, and I respect that that takes some guts. You can preach to me about that because you have been there, you have seen first hand things I never hope to see. I am not smarter than you, but I have crashed, so I can tell you, from my experience, it f*cking hurts. And when I read things like, "my knees were uncovered when the little pieces of what I thought were gravel scraped against my skin, only to find out later that they were my actual kneecaps grinding against the pavement below them," it kinda makes me want to wear gear. I don't want to tell any of you what to do because I don't like it when people tell me what to do. I don't expect any of you to listen to me anyway, I am giving advice. It's free. I've ignored lots of advice before. Some I wish I had not. You say you don't dress to have a wreck and you ride not to. Those are words I have heard before. "It'll never happen to me." That just sounds ignorant. It's naive because it speaks of something that has not happened yet, something you cannot know with any certainty. "It has happened to me." That is truth because it speaks from experience. I can say the later, and I hope you don't ever get to. So be safe friends, avoid the crash and you will never need gear in the first place. You can then go on saying "It'll never happen to me." My motto is Be Prepared. I will still ride without gear sometimes, but if I find myself debating whether or not to wear it, I will opt for it and be happier that I did. When I ride with my girl, I insist she wears her helmet, shoes and my protective jacket because I care about her safety more than my own. PS. Nylons? Really Serowbot? |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by apache snow on 04/29/13 at 13:35:48 I never said it wouldn't happen. If it does it does. I will not be held hostage by fear of something that may or may not happen. So far I've led a charmed life. I'm either good or just lucky. And any way I'm already too old to die young. And I have lived a colorful life. I have done many things that I should not have lived through. And many times alcohol was involved. Oh I quit drinking many years ago. Hell an old riding buddy used to say if nothing else kills you a jet plane will fall on you. Hes still kicking too. I don't hold it against you for trying to be safe. Just don't try to shove your values on me. I am safe in other ways. What you shouldn't do is call someone stupid because thay don't do as you do. Oh and I'n not naive, I'm well aware of all the risk. EDIT..Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I have been driving cars since 1960 and I have never had a car wreck either. Is that amazing or what. :o And if I come across as a crotchety old curmudgeon thats because I am. ;) |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Routy on 04/29/13 at 13:51:23 If it feels good, do it ! http://p1.bikepics.com/2010/08/19/bikepics-2042589-800.jpg |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by verslagen1 on 04/29/13 at 13:54:01 2A3C2B362E3B362D590 wrote:
I hope dem thangs is kevlar. I would not like to have grated/melted nylon fibers dug outta my exterior. http://www.dragginjeans.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=DLINERS |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by apache snow on 04/29/13 at 13:54:52 What I had rather do than dress up and think that I am safe is ride defensively. I am aware of whats around me at all times. I watch other drivers like a hawk. They pull out in front of me all the time. I can usually look at them and know when they are going to do it. I can see it in their eyes. If I see some one with the potential to do something stupid I either slow down of move over to avoid them. I constantly look for avenues of escape. I have learned these things over the years. They have kept me safe. Oh yeah, the people in cars still try to kill me but I manage to stay a step ahead of them. I do this when driving cars as well and have never had a car wreck. 8-) (been driving cars since 1960) I practice much more than the few things I have mentioned here but you get my drift. have a good one |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by rfw2003 on 04/29/13 at 14:22:24 In cooler weather I have a nice buffalo hide leather jacket with zip out liner that also has some venting for when it gets a little warmer. I also wear a FF helmet during the months that I can. As it starts getting warmer I have a mesh jacket that I wear until it just get to darn hot, then it's just a short sleeve shirt from then on. Also for now during the warmer times I use a brain bucket for a helmet but I'm going to get a 3/4 helmet sometime this season, I also wear a good pair of riding glasses when I have the open face helmets. I very rarely ride with no helmet at all. I am very sensitive to the heat so that's the reason I drop the jackets once it gets to a certain outside temp. Pant wise I always just wear jeans, and if it's cold enough I put on a pair of sweats over the jeans, or wear some insulated coveralls over my cloths. Foot wear is always a pair of Hightop leather sneakers, I have yet to find any boots that are comfortable to wear with my flat feet. The built in arches in all the boots kill my feet. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by arteacher on 04/29/13 at 16:00:35 I don't know what kinds of bugs you guys have in your various locations, but we have something that we call a June bug. They are about the size of your thumb to the first joint. I used to wear fingerless gloves until I met one going 70 one day with the tip of my small finger. Turned the nail black and hurt like a sumbitch. I also always remember to zip up the cuffs on my jackets now since the wasp went in and stung me 5 times before I could safely stop and remove it. I have also collided with a hummingbird. I was going 70 one way, it was going very fast the other. BIG bruise on my shoulder. Short sleaves? no way. ;D Hi top leather sneakers? Great idea. I have a bone spur on my heel that doesn't like any hard soled shoes. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by SALB on 04/29/13 at 16:25:55 42564702000003300 wrote:
Have you tried the old standard issue combat boots? When I was in, everyone upgraded because of a total lack of arch support. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by arteacher on 04/29/13 at 16:37:43 21222135232B25400 wrote:
Have you tried the old standard issue combat boots? When I was in, everyone upgraded because of a total lack of arch support.[/quote] My son (who weighs over 400 pounds and said goodbye to his arches long ago) swears by them, when he can find size 14. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Paladin. on 04/29/13 at 19:07:11 5F4E5F5D565B4D5051493E0 wrote:
They are either kids, or old farts who have crashed, more than once, and think that no one else could be better than they are. They call us "truly stupid or just plain ignorant" -- but the Statistics are actually against them. We started riding in the '50's - '60's. We had accidents, injuries, deaths. And we learned that pain does hurts and we learned how to avoid crashing. They now claim that motorcycling is dangerous, that they have to wear "gear" to protect from injuries and deaths. Statistically the rate of deaths per accidents is about three times greater than when the '50's - '70's -- *because* they wear gear and think they are "protected." They claim that "helmets save lives." About 40%. Claim because in California of a 40% drop in deaths when the helmet law was passed -- but because the number of motorcycles dropped by 40% also. In the U.S., roughly 50% of the people live in States that mandate motorcycle helmets -- the other 50% may choose. The States that mandate motorcycle helmets have a higher rate of motorcycle accidents per registered riders, and a higher rate of deaths per accidents. I have been on-line for over 30 years. They cannot prove the gear helps, so they have to get personal. Ignore them. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Paladin. on 04/29/13 at 19:57:44 5C5F5C485E56583D0 wrote:
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by cowboy on 04/29/13 at 21:01:34 I always wear a helmet on the street a FF. on my atv a 3/4. after that jeans tee , or warm shirts, ins pants. muck boots in the winter[atv] there is no winter riding of bikes here. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by raydawg on 04/30/13 at 03:38:15 Well I wonder if just took a Viagra before I ride, ya know....makes me a man of steel :-* |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by TheSavagePJ on 04/30/13 at 06:32:59 Hey, old guys. I just feel I need to say that I didn't start this post to call you out, call people ignorant or be some kind of elitist. The bottom line is that safety is your call, nobody elses. I agree that your safety out there depends heavily on your skills, but theres always that off chance something may happen. I also agree you shouldn't spend your riding career worried sick about what COULD happen. I'm not here to judge, I really just wanted to hear some different perspectives, some from guys who were riding longer than I've been living, some from guys who just started, and everything in between. As for my original post, I would like to say that I didn't mean to call anyone here ignorant or they shouldnt be riding. We ALL know the risks. My point is that if you haven't thought about the risks, you aren't using your head and you're probably just out there to be like all the squids out there. Guys in full gear have gotten themselves killed. Get out there... enjoy the ride. Getting a Savage is second best decision of my 20s, next to going back to school. I'm still gear shopping, because my as much as I like my leather jacket, I know I'll be roasting in the summer months. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Firetox on 04/30/13 at 07:15:31 always ff helm gloves and my riding shoes. always long pants. now in the summer its a t shirt and hoodie, so I can cover my arms when I need to. I also have a padded (I cant call that stuff armor) jacket with vents and a really thick leather jacket. depending on how cold it is. I even have some like ski pants to go over my jeans when its real cold (I have to plug these shoes cuz I love them) http://images.leatherup.com/imagesproc/333605_H_SH355_MW400.jpg |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by verslagen1 on 04/30/13 at 07:32:10 25362E33362030570 wrote:
Careful there bud... rigid members can be broken. :-? |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by WD on 04/30/13 at 07:37:11 The first time you bury friends or family who's full face helmet broke their neck in an otherwise survivable crash... You'll never own, let alone wear, one again. Been there, more than once, motorcycles (street and race) and race cars. I'm making an exception for the get together weekend at my place in September, normally, if you show up in a full face helmet, you're told in no uncertain terms to leave and never come back. My surviving antique race bike is being converted back to street use, the racing classes it fits require full face helmets. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by groupus on 04/30/13 at 10:51:39 I'm not sure how a FF can be to blame for someone's death, I would be interested in some data on that (seriously, I'm not trying to be a smartass). There is actual scientific data to prove the contrary. "the energy-absorbing qualities of a DOT motorcycle helmet also absorb the energy that breaks riders' necks in impacts. Studies show that helmeted motorcyclists actually suffer fewer neck injuries when they crash compared to riders who crash without helmets." See this article on common riding myths http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/streetsurvival/dangerous_motorcycle_safety_myths/. Besides, if the impact was enough to snap their neck with a helmet on, I can only imagine that without one their brain would have been splattered pretty good. Even those skull cap helmets leave your face, temples, and the base of your spine exposed. WD, I'm sorry about your friends, but I will continue to wear my FF, thank you. I think it is a common misconception among riders who choose not to wear protection that us who do choose to protect ourselves are either afraid or reckless or both. I wear protection because it is logical to do so. Its common sense. Riding has greatly increased my awareness of everything on the road, on and off the bike, just as I'm sure it has done for everyone here. I also find that donning my gear has conditioned me to focus more on the task of riding. I am less distracted and I don't get fatigued by the wind and bugs constantly blasting me in the face. I've taken a locust in the face with and without a face shield. I prefer the face shield, no surprise there. Some people claim not wearing a helmet allows you to hear more, see more, be more alert and generally be a better rider. While it is true that your head is open to the sights and sounds around you, it is fact that motorcycle riders who use helmets crash less frequently than those who don't. (BTW, this is addressed in the article above too, there are many things that we assume to be true just because they are repeated enough). I have my personal reasons for being protected too 1. I am not a sadist and I do not like pain, therefore I wish to avoid it. 2. I have a pretty face. The girls seem to like it, so I would like to keep it arranged as is. 3. I have no health insurance at this time, but I also prefer to stay out of hospitals altogether. 4. I have made my family suffer pain and worry when I crashed before and I will do what I can to prevent that again. To be clear (again) I'm not insulting anyone or trying to be an elitist. The OP knows how important gear is and asked what we wear. I admitted that I am unsatisfied with my current level of protection, gave my reasoning, and gave some suggestions. I only hope to sway those people who are on the fence about spending the money or unsure of the comfort vs. protection. There are others who are satisfied with their current lack of protection. That does not bother me in the least. I personally cannot survive a crash on testicular fortitude alone. I am making a persuasive argument advocating the use of gear supported by facts and my own experience. I am not attacking anyone. Those who I have addressed, I did so respectfully and with a proper rebuttal, not personal jabs. It's smarter to wear gear, I cannot control who takes offense to that. Lastly, I like this diagram of impact areas from a study of motorcycle crashes. Note that 35% of impacts occur in the chin area. Add the numbers up and you will find that an astonishing 63.6% on impacts occur on your face. There is exactly 1 type of helmet that can protect you from these injuries, a FF. Although you can attach a face shield to a 3/4, it is by definition removable and is not able absorb the force of an impact. http://dontai.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/helmetcrashdiagram.gif http://dontai.com/wp/2010/05/20/motorcycle-helmet-impact-zones/ |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Serowbot on 04/30/13 at 11:44:30 Excellent post and interesting article Groupus... ;)... Even though,.. I don't entirely agree with the ABS info... I have heard and read, that they can be a problem on sand and gravel coated roads... (which is where I have the most problem with skidding)... so, they're kinda' most effective when you least need them... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by WD on 04/30/13 at 12:12:41 S.O.P. for big rigs running the mountains of WA when I was living/driving there was to pull the ABS fuse (disabling the system) and dash light from first snowfall through at minimum mid-April. ABS doesn't work well with snow, mud, sand, gravel or tire chains. Can be alright for rainy surfaces IF the actuator rings are well protected (dry), they tend to short out in heavy rain/standing water. Light pulled so you could get through an inspection at the scale house, light on they'd red flag you until the problem was fixed. Too late to pull a bulb and say good enough at that point. ::) |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by ToesNose on 04/30/13 at 14:09:41 734F42744651464042776D270 wrote:
Look into TFL cool system leather jackets if you can find one, they really work. They are more popular in Europe, but some merchants carry them here. ;) |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by dinsdale on 04/30/13 at 19:46:56 I Wear a sweat wicking t-shirt in hot weather. As long as you ar moving, it's not bad. Stop and go suck tho |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by raydawg on 04/30/13 at 20:23:58 312235342B2620222976470 wrote:
Careful there bud... rigid members can be broken. :-?[/quote] It ain't broke.....just bent sumtin awful is all :-/ |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Jiggyfly on 04/30/13 at 22:57:35 Gear- on track: Scorpion EXO1000 helmet, Teknic Speedstar kangaroo leathers, Teknic Speedstar kangaroo boots, Held Titan kangaroo gloves, Teknic Speedstar back protector, Knox chest protector, Knox armored shorts, ear plugs & mouthpiece. On street: Scorpion EXO1000, Vanson jacket, Held Galaxy's, Alpinestar SMX+ boots, ear plugs. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Jiggyfly on 04/30/13 at 23:03:26 6477330 wrote:
"In an otherwise survivable crash"????????? I'm not sure how one would know this. It's like the story someone gave me about not wearing seatbelts, "my cousin hit a telephone pole going 115mph, & the seat belt cut him in half, so I'll never wear one, their dangerous!" Of the 100's & 100's of crashes I've seen at the racetrack, I've never seen, heard, or known of anyone breaking their neck "because of" a helmet. Possible? Yes. It's the same as saying it's impossible..... Which I'd never say. Likely? I'll say no. "Dude crashed going 95mph and the helmet killed him!" |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by verslagen1 on 04/30/13 at 23:11:51 ever hear of Dale Earnhardt? |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by WD on 04/30/13 at 23:22:12 Low speed side impact collision. One was a member of a riding group I belonged to. One was a very good friend of mine's father. One was an assistant coach of my grade school baseball team. One of them was the girl I was married to before my current wife. The one thing they all had in common? Their heads were knocked to the side by the impact and the excess weight was sufficient to break their necks. The above were on Knucklehead HD, early Goldwing, Evo HD and Evo HD. When I was in college in eastern WA, as soon as I hit the Idaho state line my helmet came off and either went into the ditch on the opposite side of the road, or was strapped to the backrest if I was taking a different road home. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Paladin. on 05/01/13 at 00:05:50 694A44445A454F5A230 wrote:
The race track is reasonably safe -- mostly just slide until you come to a stop. On the street you can hit stationary object that will break your neck: http://www.ncrider.com/Truth_About_Helmet_Laws_v1_10-22-04.htm |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/01/13 at 12:45:03 I can tell you without any doubt that had I been wearing a helmet when I crashed in La. I woulda broken my neck. I landed on the right shoulder & slammed my head onto my left shoulder & cracked 3 vertebrae. Had the width of a helmet side been in there for a fulcrum, it woulda been just like being hung with a rope. I only found out about the cracks a few years ago, when I had a cat scan., |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Serowbot on 05/01/13 at 13:24:40 083934393C3136580 wrote:
That "Truth about Helmet laws" article, quotes stats from the Motorcycle Industry Council... "The following tables from the Motorcycle Industry Council show that the states with voluntary helmet laws actually do have fewer fatalities per accident, and fewer accidents per motorcycles registered in 1993." This is obviously a distorted reinterpretation because the MIC recommends, and supports helmet use... Here's their helmet video... they have download link to it on their site... PS... I can't find the full 5min video on youtuibe, this is just 3min... You can download the full video here...http://www.mic.org/mic.cfm?spl=2&action=display&pagename=MIC%20Downloads [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1OwwZLVpg4[/media] |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by LANCER on 05/01/13 at 19:32:12 Serowbot, the speed of dark is Warp Factor 13 8-) |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Serowbot on 05/01/13 at 19:43:04 Mine's only 12... I must have a miss... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by arteacher on 05/02/13 at 06:21:54 3E333C3137206065520 wrote:
No it's not- it's the inverse of the speed of light. ;) |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Jiggyfly on 05/02/13 at 23:39:36 One of my best friends crashed twice well north of 125mph, one time flipping like a rag doll from brake marker 3 in turn 12 at Road America (Canada Corner, for those familiar) to well into the gravel trap. Flipping.......every side of his $750 Arai helmet had scuffs. Not even a headache. I landed on the side of my head, having been catapulted over the bars at 65-70 mph.....fully inverted.....feet in the air, bammmmm! My head completely bent sideways, far enough for my helmet to break my collar bone in 2 places, chunk out of my $700 Arai helmet. No headache, neck a little stiff for a day or so. There is no doubt that is something that I would probably either be drooling on myself, or dead, without a helmet. Trust me, your neck will bend significantly further than you think it will, without breaking. A helmet can actually limit how far your neck rolls.....think football neckrolls. Of course, they may break your collarbone doing so.... ;D There's no way to say, "a helmet did this to me", when you don't know if it would happen without the helmet. (Then add brain trauma, minus the helmet!) I crashed in turn 1 at Road America Briggs track on a Supermoto bike. I hit the ground so hard that smacking the pavement broke my thumb. Also broke 2 ribs, & bounced my dome off the track hard. Again....not even a headache. (I grabbed my spare helmet, & raced 3 more races that day....then the adrenaline wore off. Ribs hurt me for 4 months!) I have too many personal testimonies. I'll wear one, & strongly encourage others to do so. This is America, and were free to choose to do as we please.....if you choose not to, I hope you don't ever hit your head as hard as I have, cuz it's a high probability the lights will go out. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Jiggyfly on 05/02/13 at 23:49:01 60515C5154595E300 wrote:
The race track is reasonably safe -- mostly just slide until you come to a stop. On the street you can hit stationary object that will break your neck: http://www.ncrider.com/Truth_About_Helmet_Laws_v1_10-22-04.htm [/quote] Read my above testimonials. There's one thing we usually hit our head on...the pavement. & we usually do it with significantly more force, at a higher speeds, and more frequently than anyone does (or at least should) on the street. That's called "testing". Lol If it works at 115mph, it will likely work @ 35mph. I've also been hit by a car, that was going about 40-45mph, directly into the side of my bike. I put a dent in the hood where my helmet impacted. Imagine that.....go out and headbutt a Buick Lesabre hood with your head one time, & put a 1" dent in it. No headache. ;) I either buy good helmets, get lucky, or don't have anything up there to hurt! ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Serowbot on 05/02/13 at 23:59:37 Jiggy,... ... and I've never seen you drool once... I drool,... a little... but I always have... :-?... ;D ;D ;D... I've had three, ...really spectacular crashes... and never bonked my head,... that hard... Just dumb luck... ... but, every time... I was glad I had the helmet on... One, saved a nasty, eye, nose and chin, burn...(possibly an eye, nose, chin,... "adjustment"?...)... One,... saved me having an early bald patch on the back of my head... ... and one,... saved me from showing my embarrassment, at being so stupid... (although,.. in that one,.. I did header a traffic light pole)...(HELMET!)... (that was many years ago,.. when I was young and stupid)... ... now,... I'm older... ... stupid,... is hard to shift... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/03/13 at 08:04:15 Well,, my neck Did break, in 3 places, just not bad enough to ruin my life or kill me. They did have me set for HALO surgery when they decided to have another MRI run & they discovered the breaks were old. Your opinion is yours, mine is mine. I Dont see how anyone could replicate that "Get Off" on a track. How I hit, I was rolling off the bike, in La. In the dark, cuz I lost it in a corner & in La, thers LOTS O TRees,, & I didnt wanna hit one, so, I was actually bailing off, then, realized I didnt turn the bike, when I pushed it away, it stopped my Roll, I hit on my right shoulder, in grass & started flipping, after my head folded flat to the left shoulder. A helmet in that area would have been a fulcrum & Finished snapping my neck. No Helmet still managed to crack 3 vertebrae. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Jiggyfly on 05/03/13 at 09:31:07 That's exactly what happened to me when I broke my collarbone...... My head bent all the way to the left, against my shoulder. The bottom edge of my helmet broke the bone. If I put a helmet on, and bend my neck to the left, you can see a perfect indentation where if I could naturally bend my neck that far, it would hit & break it. If I didn't have a helmet on, my neck would've bent even further. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/04/13 at 07:53:25 Did your neck break? Mine cracked in 3 places. I hear what youre sayin, I know youve had a ride down that road, so have I. I Did crack vertebrae, add a fulcrum,, then what? My thinking is, those cracks get bigger. My collar bone didnt break, my vertebrae cracked. Maybe our bones are different & maybe 2 necks given th same crankin would act differently? I had one vertebrae stacked just to the side of the other, like placing your fists knuckle to knuckle, just not lined up. It took a chiropractor literally putting his feet on my shoulders & pulling my head out straight till there was no slack & then yanking to set that right. I suffered for years before anyone figured that out. I came within a fraction of being paralyzed or dead. I believe a helmet woulda ended it for me. Your landing may not have been as Head down & you didnt get the immediate traction of "Lawn Dart" in the dirt that I did> I was catapulted up & came down on my forehead, feet over my back like a scorpion,, thats all I remember, cuz that knocked me out, |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by jcstokes on 05/04/13 at 22:22:25 I can't speak with the authority of the many real high mileage/years of experience of many on this forum. I note that in the recently posted Isle of Man TT video clips, not one rider was without a full face helmet or full gear. The IOM is a road circuit, so you can impact with trees, poles, kerbs, stone walls and other motorcyclists all at 160 - 180 mph plus. I would never try and force anyone to wear a helmet or protective gear. I used to ride in shorts and an ordinary shirt, but have stopped that since I retired. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by old_rider on 05/05/13 at 10:01:13 I wear what I wanna wear, but callin' folks names or such because they don't adhere to your standards is well, disrespectful and you won't get respect from me. If you are going to state something you believe in strongly a simple "I strongly suggest" would at least earn you some respect, rather than "you are a dumb*ss if you don't". And the comback from most folks will be "you are arrogant", simply the same... name callin', no respect given back. Door swings both ways for me, so if ya jump someone about what they wear, some, all or nothing, no respect... don't disrespect someone because of what they wear or don't wear, its a free county, lots of us have made sure it stays that way. And by that I mean services (mil and civ) and voters.... This topic has been put on every motorcycle forum that i've been on and always ends the same....badly LOL also the "i ride a sportbike, harley riders suck!" and the "its a lifestyle you rice burner!" None of that matters to me, its my life, I just wanna ride and enjoy, I hope you do to :) |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by kimchris1 on 05/05/13 at 16:39:08 I have lots of different types of gear, for different types of rides. It depends on weather as well. Most if not all the time, their has been a few when I haven't. That being the chaps or leaather jacket. For the most part, I wear chaps, leather coat, boots, ff, flip up helmet. Oh I see plenty of those that ride in less gear than I do. It does make me cringe and then again, I figure it is their choice not mine. I feel if I point fingers at them that they are wrong, then that opens the door for them to return the fingers as to my wrongs. Now I will admit to one or two, yet that is all.. ;) You can talk about the pros and cons of gear all day long. That still isn't going to make the ones that believe they are safe without it believe any different. Oh and yes I have been down. Taken down 3 years ago by a 92 year old lady. She blew the stop sign at a 4 way stop. I had cleared the intersection. My gear did keep the injuries from being worst. Also her not hitting me in the legs nor bike falling on my legs helped my injuries from being worst. OH yeah my ff helmet did protect my head. The left side of my head hit the pavement so hard, it sent the plastic shield flying. My head, neck nor back was hurt. I slid some and again chaps protected my legs from being scratched. My poor right thumb took the brunt of the impact as it is now fused together and took almost a year to mend. So enjoy your rides in whatever you wear or don't wear. Just remember in a blink of an eye, your life can change forever. Mine did the moment I rode my first bike and will change when I no longer am able to.. :-* :-* :-* kim |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by engineer on 05/05/13 at 18:25:40 I was in the emergency room this weekend, not for me but for a guy who went wide on a curve, dropped off the pavement and into a ditch. At that point the bike went down and he somehow impacted the side of the ditch with his foot leading the way at about 40-45 mph. He was wearing heavy pull on boots sold as riding boots. They are high and thick but are not tight, no laces, no ankle support. His foot ended up sticking out at a right angle to his leg and he'll being seeing a fair amount of surgery next week. I have injured a foot twice in motorcycle accidents and I am wondering what style of boot, other than total dirt riding gear, would provide the best protection. I wonder if a standard work boot, say a 6 or 8 inch lace up boot might provide some protection against a nasty ankle fracture and dislocaation. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by jcstokes on 05/05/13 at 20:38:58 Right foot and Jawa brake pedal, boots help but they don't stop everything. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Jiggyfly on 05/05/13 at 20:44:43 ^ #*%! Ouch! I wear Alpinestar SMX+ boots on the street. I dont wear them for racing. They are a race caliber boot, but I find the thicker soles & stiff plastic exoskeleton don't offer me the feel I'm looking for through the footpegs at 95mph in turn 1 at Jennings! :D Their a great boot, & I love them on the street. There's quite the protection. nothing can protect you absolutely......but a motorcycle specific boot with something that limits ankle flexion & has some impact resistant armor is good. Want the best? Daytona security pro's. I had a pair. Get ready for sticker shock, & you better have narrow feet! |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by engineer on 05/06/13 at 06:19:10 Ooch indeed, looks like that Jawa brake pedal had to hurt, probably still hurts. Thanks Jiggyfly I looked up those boots and watched their video. They look like they could offer much more protection than most riding boots. Limiting ankle flexion is high on my priority list after viewing that guy's foot sticking out sideways this weekend. They had to relocate it and put it in a cast just to keep the blood circulating, the surgery will begin this week. The boots he was wearing are usually described as being engineer's boots. If I want a boot that will limit ankle movement it looks like I will have to give up the idea of wearing anything that will look like "normal" street shoes or boots when I get off the bike. |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Serowbot on 05/06/13 at 09:18:03 Some ankle protection is good,... but be wary of a boot that limits ankle flex too much... Yer' ankle is meant to pivot,.. yer' knee isn't... If your foot gets caught up in a twisted position... some part of you is going to get bent... If not at your ankle,... the twist force will hit your knee or hip joint... ...(I'd prefer a broken ankle to a broken hip, or snapped femur)... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by RidgeRunner13 on 05/06/13 at 10:42:34 Last year I bought a pair of Carolina 16" Lineman boots like I wore when I was in my 20s. Just as comfortable as I remembered & since they were meant for pole climbing, great support for ankles & feet. I wear them until it gets too hot, then switch to a shorter version. Lucky for me these come without steel toes, I've never found a steel toed boot I can wear. 8-) BTW, several people have asked if they were Doc Martens'. :-? |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by Jiggyfly on 05/06/13 at 11:07:18 4452455840555843370 wrote:
This is absolutely true. In the worst of bad situations....if you're floppin' like a tuna, these will save your ankle....but not your leg, or hip, or ass! |
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Title: Re: Lets talk about gear Post by SuperSavage on 05/06/13 at 17:11:41 I've had a pair of Icon Superduty 4 boots, they provide good protection and are super comfy to walk around in. |
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