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Message started by Boogieman on 04/28/13 at 00:53:16

Title: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 04/28/13 at 00:53:16

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Routy on 04/28/13 at 07:31:14

If you're ok w/ doing carberators, I myself would bring everything back to stock, and go from there. Reason for that is these bikes run good stock,.....maybe a little lean, but even w/ exhaust and intake mods, stock would be a good place to start. Otherwise you could be in trial and error stage a while. Others may have better ideas.

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 04/28/13 at 12:53:58

Gotcha,, good idea. i know i read the topic somewhere on this site as to the what the stock settings are because I'm not sure this bike has ever been at stock settings. though I will say the pilot jet was a #47 and the main jet was probably stock. what was happening was the bike will go on the freeway for about a mile and then start starving for gas because the main jet wasnt supplying enough. I was going off of Diamond Jims LS650 progressive jetting guide and just jumped from like stage 1 to stage 7. possibly I just keep the 155 Main and lower the pilot. hey when you're going like 80 on the freeway does gas squirt of both the pilot and the main at full force? Like, does it take both of them to meet the fuel need at freeway speed?

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by verslagen1 on 04/28/13 at 13:09:40

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by WD on 04/28/13 at 13:19:29

I ran a 155 over 55 for many years on the west coast. You shouldn't be having any backfiring or popping. If you are at sea level to about 700 feet in elevation, your carb is probably a tad rich, my bike smoked like an old diesel big rig, pilot was too big. No messing with the white spacer or washer conversions, I don't pull vacuum slides out until they fail.

Stock on mine (1998) was a 47 pilot jet and I think a 150 main. Switching it back to a 155 over 50 to cut the smoke. Which is actually just toasted yet unburnt fuel.

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by apache snow on 04/28/13 at 13:33:37

According to the Suzuki factory service manual 1997 through 2003 models had a 52.5 pilot jet and a 145 main jet. Thats for E-03 and 28 models.

That is the same for 2004 till now as well.

The manual list calif E33 models as the same.

The 1987 and 1988 model lists a 47.5 pilot and a 155 main jet.

Then in 1995 is when they went to the 52.2 pilot jet and the 145 main jet according to the factory manual.

This is for the USA only.

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by LANCER on 04/28/13 at 16:13:09

313C3C343A363E323D530 wrote:

First off, I'd like to thank everyone for making this site possible, it is a wealth of knowledge. Unfortunately there are about a billion pages of it to search through. so I'd like to start this thread about my bike, and all questions or comments pertaining to it. She's a 2003 LS 650, jardine exhaust {a Jardine is a high flow muffler which will really lean the mixture unless compensated for with at least a #52.5 pilot or a #55 pilot which is often the case},
k&n cone filter {this will lean the mixture a bit too},
#55 pilot w/bh - #155 main {leave the pilot and main jets in there for now and fix your needle}
and some other strange modifications can you describe them ? I'm not familiar with.
At the moment I'm trippin on this whole jetting/mixture screw/powerband/flames shooting out the tailpipe issue. I'm one full turn out on the mixture screw and
there is one really thin metal washer atop the needle. just the one washer ? no white plastic spacer ? ..... if so then you need to add 3 more washers to the needle which will raise it up and give you some fuel for the mid range...as it is right now it is starving ... talk about a DEAD SPOT !}
this bike pops and cracks and backfires and shoots flames 'n stuff. also there is like this dead spot in the power band. how do I go about fixing this stuff?
When you turn the pilot screw does the engine respond within 1/4 or at least 1/2 turn ?
If not, then passageways inside the carb body are clogged and need cleaning out before you can jet/tune properly, otherwise everything will be bass akwards or just non-responsive.

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Cavi Mike on 04/28/13 at 16:23:26

Dead spots come from a mis-match with the jets, your needle and/or your air-screw. Each of these things controls a general throttle position but they have very large over-laps. If you have a heavy dead-sopt, someone has adjusted something WAY too far. Start by getting all of your adjustments back to factory spec and then you can begin adjusting from there. It's much easier to start from scratch than to waste time figuring out what they did wrong. Most likely you'll find out what they did wrong as you're going back to factory specs anyways.

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Cavi Mike on 04/28/13 at 16:28:08

This is what I'm taking about with the large over-laps.

http://www.sudco.com/Carburetor/MikuniThrottleChart.700.jpg
http://www.sudco.com/Carburetor/MikuniThrottleChart.700.jpg

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by paulmarshall on 04/28/13 at 16:33:32

Hey Boogieman first off I dig your username. ;) And secondly its a bit off topic but could you take pics of your seat mounts. :)

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 04/29/13 at 19:55:44

Wow thanx everyone for being so willing to help.
Ok LANCER, so as far as strange modifications go I'm really just talking about tank, handle bars, seat, signals and stuff. I got this bike from my brother and he's the one that basically made it rideable by attaching all that stuff temporarily and got it running. He did the LED/diamond plate stuff. Im posting some pics to give everyone a better idea of what I'm dealing with here. The tank doesnt fit it very well So either I get a new tank or move/remove all that nonsense from underneath it. yeah I don't know what all that stuff is underneath there but needs to be taken off completely or relocated.
I took the carburetor halfway apart (top half) and clean it up all nice. As it turns out, I had not even one washer atop that little washer-clip thing. so I put that big washer back in there, resembled it, tuned it a little (she does respond to 1/4 turns) and went to the hardware store to get the #4 washers. there's a huge difference between not having any washers in there and having that big washer there. still pops and pings when closing the throttle, one or two pops between gears but not all everytime, slightly less of a backfire on shutdown, but noticeably more power/pull. i dont know what kinda petcock this is but it needs no vacuum attchmnt. perhaps i should get a raptor petck.

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 04/29/13 at 19:58:55

darn... i dont know how to post all the pics at once.

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 04/29/13 at 20:00:06

petcock

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by paulmarshall on 04/29/13 at 20:02:39

I have that problem too. I just do one at a time.
I like the checker plate where the seat mounts.

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 04/29/13 at 20:02:38

needle

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 04/29/13 at 20:05:24

...

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 04/29/13 at 20:13:05

i like the diamond plate too. He also took a sander to the metal that covers the head, it dulls it out and makes it look tougher.

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 04/30/13 at 18:58:11

ok, so for some reason i only put 3 #4 washers on there. the big plastic spacer and 4th washer i put away. so with 3 washers and I messed with the mixture screw I think one hole turn out was what felt good, then I adjust the idle and went for a ride. this time I feel a bit more power more equally spread throughout the power band. still pops between gears but i think less, less of a backfire on shutdown, a little less popping and nonsense when using the engine to slow down, but it still seems a little much. so what do I do now?

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Dave on 05/01/13 at 08:39:39

Still seems a little rich.......when? What operating conditions does it seem rich?

Full Throttle acceleration?
Steady Speed Cruise?
Light Throttle Acceleration?
Idle?
Rolling off the throttle?
Downshifting?

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 05/01/13 at 09:53:34

probably rolling off the throttle and downshifting. lemmy hop on her right now with this in mind.

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 05/01/13 at 17:10:32

huh... i dont know. its got way more power now that's for sure. much better that with that one big spacer. I'm not sure i know how to identify what's too rich. I don't smell a whole lot of unburnt gas. it backfires less than before but most of the time I get one or two big pops between gears accelerating, it pops a bunch when I use the motor to slow the bike down, and 80 percent of the time I get a backfire upon shutdown though it's much less other backfire now. I guess it would help a bit if I had a tacometer and speedometer.

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Bubba on 05/02/13 at 09:53:18

something doesn't seem right with the washers picture...i don't recall so well but my needle had no needle clip adjustment...that's why I adjusted the setting with washers...it appears as if your needle does have an adjustable jet setting so you should not need the washers (plus the would go under the jet not over it)... :-?

Maybe I'm just forgetting what it actually looks like in there????

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by verslagen1 on 05/02/13 at 10:03:07

714651515202030B00330 wrote:

Yep, he could elmiminate having more than 1 washer above and below the E-clip. 1 below for the spring, maybe 1 above for adjustment to get a half setting between grooves.

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 05/02/13 at 10:26:27

alright, I'm starting to get a little heated now this shouldn't be that hard. before my brother sold me the bike he put in a dynojet kit. now if you look at the picture I took that are the instructions it shows the dynojet parts and stock parts. so when Lancer suggested I reinstall the white spacer, I've been installing the white spacer/washers and whatnot with that E-clip on the 4th groove from the top of the needle. So im getting some conflicting information here. so wats the deal? this really should not be that tricky it should be fairly standard on how to get this simple bike to run properly. So,, With all that being said and with the pictures I posted, whats the real next move.

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 05/02/13 at 10:29:07

got this discussion off this site titled midrange power and the white spacer (backfire)

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Bubba on 05/02/13 at 10:32:10

the stock setup does not have the needle clips (i guess older ones did maybe) so to do adjustments on the needle setting you just need to move the clip to different positions...

the higher the clip is on the needle the leaner it gets in the mid-range...

the lower you move it the richer it gets in the mid-range...

spacers are not needed except maybe to stop the spring but if the clip stops the spring then you may not even need that...

edit: you should only use what came stock with the dynojet kit is what I'm trying to say...the adjustable needle is essentially doing what the white spacer mod does...hope that helps...

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 05/02/13 at 14:10:09

Ahha!!!! Now that makes sense. Okay so what is the process for attacking all five variables-- idle screw, mixture screw, needle, main and pilot jet?.. because I've read conflicting information on this site. I have a feeling yall are going to say go back to stock and start from there, but that ain't happening. there has got to be some sort of systematic process. I mean at some point I should know whether I have togo down to a 52.5pilot and 150 main right? if I'm to adjust the mixture screw till I hear a significant raise in rpm, then back the idle screw down to lower rpm's to 1000, where would I start with the idle screw in the first place?

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Bubba on 05/02/13 at 15:07:58

Depends on you're elevation, what jet's you have on now etc...I think your dynojet said to start on the 4th from the top setting so I'd do that but I don't have a dynojet so it's as good a place as any I guess.
Start the bike and let it idle at a 1000 rpm's...for a few minutes anyway. I actually like my idle set a little higher because I'd rather have more oil getting pumped up into the head than starve the head for oil...low idles will kill these bikes.
Keep track of the turns and then screw your mix screw in (the one on the right side under what used to be the brass plug) very gently until it stops (DON'T crank on it! Be super gentle cuz if it breaks you're screwed) count the number of turns out you were so you have a baseline of when it was actually running.

Then turn it out 2 turns. then go through these steps...

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1309246277

or these...

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1309246277

By far Lancer is the guru on tuning the carbs on these bikes so if you want to read through his tech articles they are great!

You'll get it running right so go slow and don't rush it...
Good Luck!

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 05/02/13 at 20:38:21

Awesome. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I'm nursing an injury so as soon as it gets a little better I'll take apart the carb and start the process. again a special thanks to everyone for helping me. hopefully I can pass on this knowledge to help someone else. I do have two questions for you Bubba. A while back you posted that the spacers would be underneath the clip on the needle not above it... Now how can that be? also, I've never taken the bottom of the carburetor apart. I've only gone thru the top and replaced the pilot and main that way. in the first link of the last message you sent me it shows messin with jets at the bottom of the carb where the bowl and floar are. am I supposed to do something down there too?

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Bubba on 05/02/13 at 21:12:14

ha, yeah, it was like 3 years ago when i messed with my carb on this bike so the memory isn't so great...yes, the spacer goes on top...that is correct...
as far as the jets (pilot, main) every carb i've worked on you get access to those from the float bowl...(2 strokes, dirt bikes etc)

i wouldn't mess with them unless you discover that the mixture is way off through your tuning of the mix screw...if you go to the table of contents in the tech section there is a whole mess of good carb tuning info there...
hope that helps!

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Boogieman on 05/03/13 at 11:16:16

Awesome thnx

Title: Re: Just got bike,,me have questions
Post by Zchan858 on 05/08/13 at 15:12:02

I have similar problem except ive been in the process of not making it run as rich, currently i believe i need a hotter spark plug and new air filter