|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> How the Welfare State Serves the Strong /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1366659847 Message started by Dane Allen on 04/22/13 at 12:44:07 |
|
Title: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by Dane Allen on 04/22/13 at 12:44:07 Here is an opinion piece that makes some excellent points. I expect our small cadre of liberals will no doubt cry foul due to the source and the content. But that is the whole point, these are ideas that you are open to refure on the grounds of logic and reason. For the rest of us it just reinforces what we already know to be true, logical and reasonable. Hat tip to Ace of Spades http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-whats-behind-the-funding-of-the-welfare-state/2013/04/17/8686d412-a6bd-11e2-8302-3c7e0ea97057_story.html For those who only are allowed to come into contact with approved information brokers there is this about the Scandinavian socialism: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/world/europe/danes-rethink-a-welfare-state-ample-to-a-fault.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all& And there is this article for fun: http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/343842/social-security-disability-insurance-and-misaligned-incentives-reihan-salam And we can't forget Obamacare(the rats are leaving the ship): http://www.nationalreview.com/article/346228/putting-lipstick-obamacare-pig Now, let's see all the open-minded liberals wow us with their mightly logic and reason skills that were alluded to in another post by Starlifter. |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by rfw2003 on 04/22/13 at 12:51:28 Texas did away with welfare years ago, they replaced it with a limited assistance program that requires you to actively seek a job, and get employment as well. The new program they have doesn't pay even what un-employment pays, you don't even get enough to live off of. For a family of 3 (1 adult, 2 children) you only get $270 per month, and it's a limited time frame that you can even get that. Texas was seeing the abuse of the welfare system so they ended it and brought out the new system called TANF but as shown above it really isn't worth a darn anyways. R.F. |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by Dane Allen on 04/22/13 at 13:38:12 283C2D686A6A695A0 wrote:
Hopefully they did the right thing and reduced the cost to employers a proportional amount so that it is cheaper to hire people. It would be very stupid to cut welfare but contiune to tax business the same as before. In California the welfare costs are helping to drive businesses out of state. I've been looking at moving near family in Texas to escape California. |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by rfw2003 on 04/22/13 at 13:59:28 76535C57735E5E575C320 wrote:
Hopefully they did the right thing and reduced the cost to employers a proportional amount so that it is cheaper to hire people. It would be very stupid to cut welfare but contiune to tax business the same as before. In California the welfare costs are helping to drive businesses out of state. I've been looking at moving near family in Texas to escape California.[/quote] That I couldn't tell you, I haven't dug that deep into it. I didn't even find out about it till I applied for medicaid for my kids and me, while I'm fighting to get my SS disability. I've got family that helps with everything else, but my medical bills are just to much for anyone to pay for with out some type of insurance especially my heart meds alone, they run over $2500 per month if I had to pay in cash. R.F. |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by Dane Allen on 04/22/13 at 15:11:02 10041550525251620 wrote:
Hopefully they did the right thing and reduced the cost to employers a proportional amount so that it is cheaper to hire people. It would be very stupid to cut welfare but contiune to tax business the same as before. In California the welfare costs are helping to drive businesses out of state. I've been looking at moving near family in Texas to escape California.[/quote] That I couldn't tell you, I haven't dug that deep into it. I didn't even find out about it till I applied for medicaid for my kids and me, while I'm fighting to get my SS disability. I've got family that helps with everything else, but my medical bills are just to much for anyone to pay for with out some type of insurance especially my heart meds alone, they run over $2500 per month if I had to pay in cash. R.F.[/quote] Wow, have you talked to the manufacturer? They usually have some assistance programs, that is how I got a new injection medicine that I used for about 6 months. I never wanted to be the guy that needs a handful of pills everyday but here I am. This is exactly why I opposed Obamacare soo strongly. In addition to all the other problems it causes, I have lost three doctors already, two specialists for my condition and our family doctor. Not only am I worried about not getting my meds I am also worried that there will not be anyone there to prescribe them. I will probably get flagged by the death panel anyway ;D ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by rfw2003 on 04/22/13 at 15:32:47 I'm kinda in the same boat, I'm having issues finding a new cardiologist right now that is within a reasonable driving distance that accepts medicaid Most of the Dr.'s around here have quit taking medicaid and medicare so even when I start getting my SS disability benefits I'll still be kinda screwed when it comes to Dr.'s around here. As for the medication for now medicaid is paying for it, so I'm o.k. for now. Just worried about what my co-pay is gonna end up costing me when I finally get my SS stuff going. I hear the medicare insurance isn't very cheap. R.F. |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by bill67 on 04/22/13 at 16:43:29 Wisconsin is a good welfare state,Any unmarried girl with a kid gets her rent paid for by the state. If she has another baby the state pays 75% of the cost.I live on the state line of Illinois and Wisconsin and a lot of Illinois girls come over the state line because Wisconsin is easier than Illinois for welfare. |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by srinath on 04/23/13 at 07:08:55 I love it when people trying to get or already on SS or disability or welfare are anti welfare state ... I guess they want no one on the gubbamint dole ... except them ... oh yea classic republiucommunist attitude ... everyone needs to pay their 25% taxes ... except me, I want to be @ 5% ... cos I am "job creator" Seriously on a larger scale too, the first and so far only group Pat McCrory newly elected republicommunist guv'nor of NC shafted under his small govt umbrella ... unemployment benefits that he cut by 60% ... smartly he did not touch welfare or disability or SS or nothing like that bleeding the coffers dry. Smart man, he knows his target republicommunist ... the rich who pay his campaign, and the ones on welfare/dole. The working class is to be shafted from all sides. Cool. Srinath. |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by Dane Allen on 04/23/13 at 10:22:22 2F2E35323D28345C0 wrote:
As per the usual, you have completely misunderstood the conversation and missed the point. Were it not for Obamacare and rewarding anti-social behavior then those of us who legitimately have a need are cast aside. You apparantly don't know the difference between welfare and unemployment insurance and have no concept of tax rules. Your gaps in knowledge are far too great for me to teach you here. |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by srinath on 04/23/13 at 11:11:27 62474843674A4A4348260 wrote:
As per the usual, you have completely misunderstood the conversation and missed the point. Were it not for Obamacare and rewarding anti-social behavior then those of us who legitimately have a need are cast aside. You apparantly don't know the difference between welfare and unemployment insurance and have no concept of tax rules. Your gaps in knowledge are far too great for me to teach you here.[/quote] Oh yea the old ... cut your benefit and give it to me routine eh ... Your need is legit, but everyone elses is not and Obamacare makes it so legit need is not met ... what garbage. Yea more crap - its the old "take it from him and give it to me" that republicommunists everywhere embrace. You dont need to explain nothing ... Its pretty obvious, he's posting about waiting for disability, while railing about disability and how its costing the govt expansion. So its not govt expansion when its for him. but it is when its for someone else. Cool. Srinath. |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by Dane Allen on 04/23/13 at 11:41:58 7E7F64636C79650D0 wrote:
As per the usual, you have completely misunderstood the conversation and missed the point. Were it not for Obamacare and rewarding anti-social behavior then those of us who legitimately have a need are cast aside. You apparantly don't know the difference between welfare and unemployment insurance and have no concept of tax rules. Your gaps in knowledge are far too great for me to teach you here.[/quote] Oh yea the old ... cut your benefit and give it to me routine eh ... Your need is legit, but everyone elses is not and Obamacare makes it so legit need is not met ... what garbage. Yea more crap - its the old "take it from him and give it to me" that republicommunists everywhere embrace. You dont need to explain nothing ... Its pretty obvious, he's posting about waiting for disability, while railing about disability and how its costing the govt expansion. So its not govt expansion when its for him. but it is when its for someone else. Cool. Srinath.[/quote] You are soo far off in lala land that I have to admit I have no idea what you are talking about. What the hell is a Republicommunist? I know it's a ridiculous merger of two separate ideals but what do you think it is? |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by Dane Allen on 04/23/13 at 11:47:01 Quote:
This is the liberal mantra and why you want to rob Romney for more than he has already paid. Quote:
Absolutely correct. It was all a lie from the start. Quote:
Do you even understand what you are talking about? If by repulicommunist you mean liberal then yes, that has always been my experience with my liberals friends. Quote:
Ok, so you don't get it, that isn't anything to be ashamed of, these are pretty complex topics. I won't fault you for being short on bandwidth. |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by srinath on 04/23/13 at 12:24:46 06232C27032E2E272C420 wrote:
I am going to just explain this one more time, then all will be clear to you ... (NOT) ... but here it is anyway. Communism was not characterised by high taxes stifling productivity. I have posted that excerpt out of an economics textbook before but now I am too busy working to do it all over again. Communism atleast in the USSR was characterised by high taxes for the factory working class, and the wealthy executives that ran the factories were rewarded with huge tax incentives and other perks. Isn't that reminiscent of RMoney's 13% tax rate while the rest of the workers pay 20-25%. Now who is crying about having lower taxes ... RMoney and his cronies ... so they are the communists ... Republicommunists. Easy ... Cool. Srinath. |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by Midnightrider on 04/23/13 at 13:29:10 This country is more interested in killing middle easterners than taking care of its own.There's a lot of our people who through no fault of their own are sick and disabled. I worked over 40 years before I became sick and had to apply for disability. I wont live long enough to get back what I paid in yet people acuse me (Romney)of milking the system. I've said this before, it bears repeating. The only difference between us and third world countries is we take care of our children and educate them, we have a strong middle class and we respect and take care of our elders. Now that's a dam joke, welcome to America, king of the 3rd world countries. |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by Dane Allen on 04/23/13 at 17:16:55 Quote:
Ooo, I can hardly stand the anticipation Quote:
No, it was another of many examples of the failure of oppresive centralized planning stifling productivity. Quote:
By wealthy executives I think you mean those who had political clout were rewarded with the stolen property of industry in exchange for their loyalty to the State. The rightful owner was most likely executed if they had not perished in the gulags first. Quote:
Oh, I get it, you are saying 2+2=orange. When the workers pay $3 million in taxes then I think he can complain. What I think you mean is you dislike the progressive tax system and would prefer a flat tax where everyone pays, say, 6%, for example on whatever they earn regardless of whether it is social security, inheritance, life insurance, wages, lotto, disability, unemployment, dividends, find-a-penny-pick-it-up, what ever. Some flat rate where everyone pays the same percentage regardless of income, no deductions or credits or anything. Would you say that is pretty accurate? |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by Dane Allen on 04/23/13 at 17:21:13 01252822252B24383E2528293E4C0 wrote:
Sadly, this is pretty accurate although I'm not sure where you heard Romney say you are milking the system. The system was designed with you in mind but there are those who use fraud to get benefits they don't deserve or politicians distribute it as a way to buy votes. What was the last time a liberal (republican or democrat) politician ran a campaign on ideas and not on just promising you free stuff sometime in the future? We need to get out of the country protecting and rebuilding business!! |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by srinath on 04/23/13 at 18:38:27 55707F74507D7D747F110 wrote:
Finally we're getting somewhere ... sort of ... This is why the sort of ... Our tax system used to be progressive ... it now is regressive. Flat tax will be fairer than regressive. Our tax system as concerns the capital gains tax and the proof is - RMoney vs Warren Buffet - 13% and 3 million vs 17.4% and 1 billion - is that you have too much leeway in defining what is capital gains. RMoney made full use of that. Warren Buffet did not. Investment returns within 3 years are considered short term capital gains. Its taxed as income, with the cap @ 35% being reached @ 1/4 million per person. Investment returns past 3 years are considered long term capital gains and are taxed @ 15%. Warren buffet classified some of his investment income as short term capital gains. RMoney did not. I dont think it can be proven as correct or incorrect by anyone other than the internal auditors of the companies that paid RMoney's income Or the IRS. Or RMoney's tax lawyer. However I think some of that had to be short term capital gains. Warren buffet's 17.4% is the proof I need. Anyway I would like to roll the capital gains definition back to 1998. Clinton in 99 changed it for real estate. Bush in 2003 changed it for a lot more investments and related. And no your views on communism - "everything stole from the owner etc etc was not the norm". Yea people got killed and their assets confiscated. But I have had uncles who studied in the USSR in the 50's and 60's and it was not what you saw in the US - which obviously was the worst they had. They routinely rewarded corporation heads and executives for increasing productivity with either plum contracts or tax breaks or free use of other govt property or the like. Essentially incentives to work their work force into basically dying at the machine. The classic modern day equivalent to 13% taxes cos its all capital gains, and it actually should be even less point of view that RMoney has cos he's a job creator. The russian centralised planning didn't stifle productivity. Their need to export to compete with the US and stave their population and tax the working class heavily while keeping the profits in upper management essentially created a whole society of serfs. Russian stuff was darn good till the 80's, but they exported all their good stuff, they were left starving. Have you seen a russian postal stamp from the 70's and 80's. Have you seen the paintings they had on them ? Have you studied Russian books for math and physics ? IE Irodov and Piskunov ? seriously, their problem was that they killed their workers to export everything and reward management. Seriously the american (resnick and halliday for physics) and british books taught the concepts pretty well. But the russian books were all about problem solving. I have a pretty close history with a lot of the USSR in the 60's and 70's. Communism was bad, and it was bad because they taxed and bled the masses dry while rewarding management - as a general rule. On ocassion they also rewarded politically connected management (AKA Crony capitalism) Why did they implode. They were oppressed for so long they started to revolt, and then they had a few weak leaders and they collapsed. Cool. Srinath. |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by srinath on 04/23/13 at 18:42:52 4A6F606B4F62626B600E0 wrote:
Easy - 2007 Ron Paul. Except he was killed in his own party. Wanna bet that's gonna repeat in 2016. In 2007 though his anti bail out message was spot on ... however once that was handed out, there was no other option but to hand out the rest of it. I still like the repeal of the 17th he's mentioned before. He also is not very big on border security. He believes we can enforce it cheaper and better electronically. I agree, but I think 2016 would be too late. It may be bolting the barn door after the horse has bolted. I'm still holding out hope for Joe Arpaio on the ticket )R or D I dont care) though. Cool. Srinath. |
|
Title: Re: How the Welfare State Serves the Strong Post by srinath on 04/24/13 at 07:34:47 252E2B2B7170470 wrote:
South carolina is another welfare queen in the east coast. Its the state that has famously voted for republicommunist presidential candidates for the last 20 cycles atleast. That was a state RMoney won by 20+ points. Its completely republicommunist - by over double digits. TEA party princess Nikki Haley is the governor and she famously interrupted RMoney when he started railing in a rally about welfare last year. Its also the state of Lindsay Graham one more of those 2 faced ... cut here cut there and give it all to my state republicans. Its proven ... you can win a SC election if you were republican and you only spoke about the civil war and the revolutionary war. When you dont have an answer for a question, toss in how the revolutionary war and the "battle of cowpens" forged your path in life. Like this - Q: Our budget is filled with waste, our army is stretched thin, our unemployment is sky high and we have welfare people bleeding us dry. How can you solve our problems ? A: Very good question, Like in the battle of cowpens in the revolutionary war, I have my life path forged by that battle and war. In fact someone in the crowd will say ... yeaaaa correct answer. Cool. Srinath. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |