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Message started by Mal on 04/18/13 at 18:34:39

Title: Odd clack noise
Post by Mal on 04/18/13 at 18:34:39

Hello fellow motorheads! I recently bought a 95 savage that had been sitting a few years. The cam tensioner needed modded so i bought the bike and did the mod immeadiately, along with an oil change and a carb tune up.. Now that the bike runs, it has a slight clack noise. Almost as a rod knock, but only happens at certain RPMS usually under load. When I was doing my tensioner i noticed for some reason there was no gasket in between the header and exhaust port. Also one of the studs was broken. I know that an exhaust leak can be loud, but can it be that loud and only happen under certain circumstances? I use a screw driver as a stethscope and the noise did not amplify through the screw driver when it was touched to the bottom end. Im an idiot and did not check the condion of the spark plug. so i guess it could be spark knock. Does anyone have any other suggestions of what this could be?

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by Dave on 04/18/13 at 18:48:19

I had a horrible knock develop in my bike.....it was the flywheel nut on the left side of the crank coming loose.

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by Mal on 04/18/13 at 18:51:49

Really... I will have to check that. Thanks for the input!

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by Mal on 04/21/13 at 11:11:13

anyone else?

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by verslagen1 on 04/21/13 at 11:45:45

I had a knock you could hear thru the bottom end, turned out to be a burnt piston.

if you got a fiber optic scope, look in the sparky hole at the edges of the piston for a melted spot.

but I suspect your piston skirt maybe a little loose.

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by paulmarshall on 04/21/13 at 12:16:08

I had to google Piston Skirt. Very interesting reading.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-piston-skirt.htm

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by Mal on 04/21/13 at 14:48:03

okay, I'm going to check the piston and spark plug this weekend. the bike still has good power. but i do notice a hesitation if i try a full throttle run through multiple gears. As i shift into the next gear, the bike acts as if it loses fuel or spark. but the bike has very healthy power through the power band. just when i get in the next gear dies for a second and then comes back.

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by Serowbot on 04/21/13 at 15:48:17

Before you go digging deep,... replace that exhaust gasket...
I think that may be all it is... without a leak up there, you will get a sharp, "kak, kak" sound, that sounds serious...

Also, make sure your idle speed isn't too low... this ain't a Hog... it shouldn't sound lumpy.... a smooth and even purr... 900 to 1100rpm...

EDIT.. I meant..."with a leak up there"... ;D...

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by Mal on 04/21/13 at 15:52:56

could the idle speed be what is causing it? it does sound a bit low.. I will get on the exuast mani gasket!

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/21/13 at 19:48:35

If you think it sounds even ANY low, jack it up

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by Mal on 04/21/13 at 20:29:56

will do. has anyone ever had a rod knock that they could not hear when they put a stethoscope/screwdriver to it?

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by Mal on 04/23/13 at 05:53:21

I was doing some reading and realized i used 10w 30 oil. could that cause a knock?

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by apache snow on 04/23/13 at 06:55:40

If you used 10W30 automobile oil it is NOT compatible with your wet clutch. It is WAY too low in anti wear additives and the viscosity is too thin.

Change it out for a motorcycle (jaso ma) approved 10W40. Rotella 15w40 or if you like synthetic 5W40 both work well and are on the forum approved list.. Although some say the 5W40 does shear down some in a shared engine trans oil. If you want to spend a little more, Mobil 1 4T racing motorcycle oil is good as well.

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by Mal on 04/23/13 at 07:08:17

okay. I'll do that this weekend

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by bill67 on 04/23/13 at 09:11:10

you need a 4T oil Klotz or Mobil one are motorcycle oils and are 4T oil.

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by Oldfeller on 04/23/13 at 09:12:37

5A4B5A58535E4855544C3B0 wrote:

Although some say the 5W40 does shear down some in a shared engine trans oil. If you want to spend a little more, Mobil 1 4T racing motorcycle oil is good as well.

Wups, you done said a dubious thing in a conditional fashion.

Now you gotta back it up with a set of UOA analysis that shows that T6 shears more (or less) than the other 40 weight oils you compare it against. Since you like Mobil 1 T4 racing oil, you can compare it to that if you want to (it will be educational for all of us).

Not what "somebody said" but hard data and facts.

RSD as a section deals with facts, not rumors. When you help newbies, you deal with facts, you don't promote what "somebody said".

And the answer will be interesting, because I really don't already know what the answer is going to be. I know all oils shear over time, but T6 has been noted for being shear resistant compared to many of what is out there. Will it win against T4 racing 10w40 Mobil 1? I dunno. Let's see.

The only folks I know with big time shear issues with any ?w40 motorcycle use oils that also do oil analysis regularly are the ATV and dirt bike racing guys running way way overstressed engines.

But they do do data ..... some of them shoot a lot of shite but they do post the data to back it up. How much it means against a Savage engine, I can't say -- not a lot I'd guess as we don't have a way way overstressed engine.

Remember, consider where the folks are coming from when they make oil shear statements.

You can get lots of expert testimony from SAVAGE MOTORCYCLE PEOPLE right here on the list, including test data (Verslagen) if you want testimony that applies to a Savage motorcycle.

My testimony is that all the oils I have used in the Savage do shear some over the one year change period. But since my bike began to use a smidgen of oil regularly, the adder oil I put in seems to keep up with shear effect pretty much ongoing from change to change. So shear is a "mild effect" in my eyes ....

Some (like Justin) use increased oil consumption caused by shear to tell them it is time to change the oil, but Justin uses white jug 15w40 Rotella, not the T6 synthetic so once again, apples to grapefruit for relevance to your statement.

I use T6 in a somewhat abusive fashion, and I can run it for a year between changes (considering adder amount refresh and all).

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by apache snow on 04/23/13 at 09:18:24

Didn't mean to get your panties in a knot. I have read that several times. If I run across the data to conferm it I will post. mean while I believe the sun will come up in the morning and the grass will still be green.

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by bill67 on 04/23/13 at 09:19:32

5E4F5E5C575A4C5150483F0 wrote:

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by apache snow on 04/23/13 at 09:41:20

Heck, maybe they all shear down to a 30 weight. I'm not going to spend hours looking up UOAs to prove something on a public forum. There are more important things to be concerned about.What I will do is make sure I change my oil at a good interval so I won't have to worry about it.

http://www.riderforums.com/mean-streak-maintenance/71797-used-oil-analysis-03-meanstreak-shell-rotella-t6-5w40-2k-miles.html

http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?257268-Oil-Analysis-Comparisons-Rotella-T-15w-40-Honda-Pro-HP4-and-Rotella-T6-5w-40

http://www.motohouston.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-229578.html

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by Oldfeller on 04/23/13 at 10:28:52

Your first one was a BIG V twin site and they were talking turkey on long oil change intervals on their flat six hondas and their big V twin touring cycles. Good info, mostly. Since we already know that all oil shears at over 5,000 miles they are actually dicing which oil shears the least in a very long mileage change interval.

Your second reference was manned by folks trying to agree or disagree what a 5w40 oil actually meant (mostly in error).

(hint: it does not mean it was built starting with a 5 weight oil)

Your third source is talking in "texting language" about kawa 250 users, and I really couldn't follow their points very well as I don't speak "text" fluently.

====================

So, to further confuse everybody here is a car forum that speaks in English and explains things a little bit when using BITOG language.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/shell-rotella-t6-5w-40-god-sendi-150928.html

Still no final answers -- but you will understand the question a bit better for having read all of it. And it does undo all the viscosity misinformation pushed out by your #2 resource.

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by apache snow on 04/23/13 at 11:49:39

776677757E7365787961160 wrote:

Well lest see here just where I might have gone wrong...

Informed the OP that 10W30 automobile oil it is NOT compatible with your wet clutch. It is WAY too low in anti wear additives and the viscosity is too thin. Good information. :)

I recommended Rotella 15w40, 5w40 and Mobil 1 4T racing, all of these are on the approved list. Nope didn't go wrong there. :)

I did say that I had heard that T6 would shear SOME in a shared engine trans. Well the consensus on bitog and many motorcycle forums is that T6 5w40 Rotella synthetic will shear a little quicker than Rotella T triple 15w40.

NO I am NOT going to quote sources. It is not that important in the scheme of things and will not solve any world problems.

I don't believe I comitted any cardinal sins and do not wish to get into any peeing contests. I believe I helped the OP out and steered him in the right direction, and that's what is important. :)

Now ya'll be careful

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by Oldfeller on 04/23/13 at 17:23:25

No sins to what you did at all actually. The big V touring guys and the Flat 6 Honda guys have an interesting perspective on T6 vs regular 15w40 dino -- since they are temperature stable (water cooled) they don't see any real advantage to the heat-proof nature of synthetic oils. This is a valid point of view on a water cooled engine if you are going to change the oil out every 5,000 miles or less.

I think the air cooled Savage can see temperature spikes that might make synthetic worth while on some fairly rare occasions, but I also listened to them long miler boys disliking the 60 ppm of organic moly oil that all makers are putting in their synthetic oils so they can go super long change intervals.

Both Rotella T6 and the Mobil 1 Vtwin and the Mobil 4T racing all have 60ppm of organic moly oil in them now. Wish they didn't, but they do. Reality is ..... the current synthetic oil formulations do have some moly in them.

This is why we tend to tell folks with clutch problems to change out 4 crankcases of 15w40 Rotella white jug before taking apart the clutch to get at the plates.

Sometimes it fixes the issue, some times they have to take the clutch apart, solvent clean the plates and sand the steels with medium coarse paper and lightly change the surface color of the fiber plates with some fine paper to get all the energy star crap off of the surfaces.

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by singlesgoinsteady on 04/24/13 at 01:16:33

I had a really loud knock that only came in under load. I never did figure it out, I got a new motor. I tried replacing the piston, check all the dimensions, checked the tensioner, still no joy. There was a tiny bit of scoring on the wrist pin and mating piston hole, like it might have run low on oil once. It would idle fine, but, under load it would really make a hard knocking sound. I never found out where the noise came from either. Sounds similar to yours. Did the exhaust gasket make your knock go away?

Title: Re: Odd clack noise
Post by Mal on 04/24/13 at 07:57:38

haven't got the exhaust gasket yet. I go to school in SC and live in WV so im gonna wait till my hell week (Finals) are over next week before i order parts