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Message started by paulmarshall on 04/17/13 at 17:07:03

Title: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/17/13 at 17:07:03

My savage was born a 1987  Suzuki Savage LS400.It was degined for the asian market due to tighter cc restrctions.So a simple design changed was needed.Some of these made there way down our way.{NZ}Aparently not sold new but personally imported.
I swapped the engine with a 1988 LS650 with no trouble at all.
The 400 just layed around the garage floor until recently. I have always wondered what separated the 400 from the 650. So I decided to open it up to see what made it tick. I had been told that the only difference was the BORE ans STROKE. After removing the head I have measured the piston and Bore 87 ,and in the pic I have marked 87,94.
The conrod has the markings 25B on it which I think is different to the 650 rod.
So I wonder if I bore out to a 94mm with a shorter stroke how would it compare to a 94mm with a stock conrod. Its hard to articulate what i'm trying to say. :-[  More or less HP?

This link is not very organised i'm Afraid.
http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/PaulMarshall1977/library/?sort=2&page=1

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/17/13 at 17:09:04

Conrod with 25B stamped onto it.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/17/13 at 17:25:37

Something else I found interesting was that the 1987 LS400 had a 5 speed and the 1988 LS650 which is the California model had a 4 speed.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by 12Bravo on 04/17/13 at 18:51:36

That 400 motor would make one heck of a power plant for a go cart especially with the 5 speed tranny   ;)

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/17/13 at 19:31:28

That 400 motor would make one heck of a power plant for a go cart especially with the 5 speed tranny   ;)
[ Funny you should say that i have had very similar thoughts]

No but seriously I intend to put this back together with at least 94mm Bore, and maybe a hotter cam.Upgrade the starter gear.Port and polish.
I enjoyed the 5 speed but the 400 lost it in top especially when stock.
I have the advantage of time due to this is a spare. :D

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/17/13 at 20:11:50


59485C4544485B5A41484545290 wrote:
That 400 motor would make one heck of a power plant for a go cart especially with the 5 speed tranny   ;)
[ Funny you should say that i have had very similar thoughts]

No but seriously I intend to put this back together with at least 94mm Bore, and maybe a hotter cam.Upgrade the starter gear.
I enjoyed the 5 speed but the 400 lost it in top especially when stock. And a hard 68000 km by previous owner. :(
I have the advantage of time due to this is a spare. :D


Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by 12Bravo on 04/17/13 at 20:19:16

It will be interesting what kind of performance you can get out of it with all the work you plan on doing. Will the jug have enough material left after boring it out to fit the 650 piston?

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/17/13 at 20:22:27

It will be interesting what kind of performance you can get out of it with all the work you plan on doing. Will the jug have enough material left after boring it out to fit the 650 piston?

[Its a 650 with a sleeve put in so yes it would be 94mm Bore same as stock 650.Look closely the metal sleeve is a darker colour.]

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/17/13 at 21:29:04

After some cleaning the sleeve vanished into a larger single inner sleeve that can be machined.  :-[

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/17/13 at 21:31:19

The dark ring was a result of the head which 94mm.  

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/17/13 at 21:34:05

Looking at this pic the metal changes at 106mm. I would to think 96mm would be easy. Considering there are pistons available for it.


Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by Paladin. on 04/18/13 at 04:09:03


The 650 is 94mm x 94mm = 652cc
The 400 is 87mm x 67mm = 398cc

Bore the 400 would make it:

94mm x 67mm = 465cc
96mm x 67mm = 485cc

400 top and a 650's crank would be
87mm x 94mm = 559cc

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by Dave on 04/18/13 at 04:47:18

Random Thoughts:

The connecting rod may be longer than the 650....so that the piston will come up the full height with the shorter stroke.  Check and see if the poston pin is the same size as the 650.

Longer stroke engines tend to have more torque than shorter stroke engines.....shorter stroke engines have a better ability to rev higher as the piston speeds are lower.  (Tractors and working engines often have longer strokes than bores to make torque.....racing engines often have larger bore than strokes tp get high rpm's and higher HP).   Putting on the bigger bore 650 piston will give you more power than the 400 had orginally - but not the 650 engines torque.

If you do put a larger piston in.....you will get an engine that runs better than a 400 - but not as strong as the 650.

You will have invested time and money into a fun project......but you would get more bang for your buck on a 650 project.

For those of us that can't get a 400......it would be cool just to have a stock one.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by wambr on 04/18/13 at 11:13:23

just remake 400 [ch1076][ch1080][ch1082][ch1072][ch1082][ch1088][ch1103] in 650 not work...about the sizes [ch1087][ch1086][ch1096][ch1085][ch1103] of the cylinder and the piston stroke you have already written...the 400 savage piston pin smaller-21[ch1084][ch1084]. and wasted the upper head of connecting rod under the larger size will probably be not very good [ch1080][ch1076][ch1077][ch1077][ch1081]. and "friendship" piston valves probably all the same will not happen . the form of the pistons quite different. and about transmission-all true. the Savages, too, since '95 year were 5 step transmissions.
and Dave rights..an interesting engine: it is not 400 but still not 650 Savage

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by wambr on 04/18/13 at 11:18:56

and the cylinder head, and everything else(other than the cylinder, the piston and crankshaft)-100%identical.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/18/13 at 11:39:26

Dave and Wambr thank you for that info. I knew I could open her up and get different measurements, but needed your expertise to help with the technical stuff.

I could Bore it to 96mm and call it a LS500 special. Now that would make a original bike. a 500 single Cafe Racer. The only one like it, now that I like.
I have enough parts to build another bike.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by wambr on 04/18/13 at 22:09:29

I still could for example show the approximate dimensions [ch1087][ch1086][ch1096][ch1085][ch1103] Ls 400, if you want to

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/18/13 at 23:16:15

I still could for example show the approximate dimensions [ch1087][ch1086][ch1096][ch1085][ch1103] Ls 400, if you want to

[Yes that would be helpful thanks.  :)]

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by SteveBless on 04/19/13 at 02:40:01

Hi Paul, I too have a LS400 here in the UK. The bike is very much a mint looking bike. Only 5000 miles from new and I am the first owner since imported. I am also thinking of bigger piston and barrel. From what I am reading here, do I take it that the LS400 has a different crank/stroke to the LS650? or can I put a 650 barrel and piston with a head from a 650 (or can I keep mine?.) and that would run OK. I may need to re-jet the carb. Oh yeh, is the carb the same as a 650 bore wise?. Another thing is the decompression valve. The 400 does not have one. Could I fit one cheaply?.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/19/13 at 12:10:17

Hi Paul, I too have a LS400 here in the UK. The bike is very much a mint looking bike. Only 5000 miles from new and I am the first owner since imported. I am also thinking of bigger piston and barrel. From what I am reading here, do I take it that the LS400 has a different crank/stroke to the LS650? or can I put a 650 barrel and piston with a head from a 650 (or can I keep mine?.) and that would run OK. I may need to re-jet the carb. Oh yeh, is the carb the same as a 650 bore wise?. Another thing is the decompression valve. The 400 does not have one. Could I fit one cheaply?.


[Hi Steve,I am yet to measure the 400 piston pin but according to Wambr they are different.Paladin made a very good point that due to our stroke being shorter, If we bored out to 94mm, (which is a stock 650 Bore) we would have a higher revving 484 cc. (I think.)
What I did was buy a 650 engine and bolted it right in.I did buy the wiring loom and carb, decompression unit etc.At the moment I am using the over jetted 400 carb with no worries. I only brought the 650 wiring loom because the 400 loom does not have a decomp unit.However u can use a manual decomp as I do now, so a 400 wiring loom will work.
The carbs are the same with smaller jets, so replace them.
The head is the same.
The other way which unless you do it yourself will $$$$, Split the bottom and fit new 650 rod and piston and Bore your barrall to 94mm. If your going that far maybe Bore out to 96 and use Verslagens 96mm Piston.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by wambr on 04/19/13 at 12:15:11


4150445D5C50434259505D5D310 wrote:
I still could for example show the approximate dimensions [ch1087][ch1086][ch1096][ch1085][ch1103] Ls 400, if you want to

[Yes that would be helpful thanks.  :)]

tomorrow I drawing of the piston and shoot it and put in post. but in General I think, that the nearest option to increase the volume of the engine with minimal mods-Suzuki DRZ 400-- piston 90mm in diameter and approximately of the same form(so I thought) the piston pin it seems the same size.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by SteveBless on 04/19/13 at 12:38:03

Hi Steve,I am yet to measure the 400 piston pin but according to Wambr they are different.Paladin made a very good point that due to our stroke being shorter, If we bored out to 94mm, (which is a stock 650 Bore) we would have a higher revving 484 cc. (I think.)
What I did was buy a 650 engine and bolted it right in.I did buy the wiring loom and carb, decompression unit etc. I only brought the 650 wiring loom because the 400 loom does not have a decomp unit.However u can use a manual decomp as I do now, so a 400 wiring loom will work.
The carbs are the same with smaller jets, so replace them.
The head is the same.
The other way which unless you do it yourself will $$$$, Split the bottom and fit new 650 rod and piston and Bore your barrall to 94mm. If your going that far maybe Bore out to 96 and use Verslagens 96mm Piston.


You say say the 400 has a short stroke so the only way I can see as to get the displacement up, is to fit a 650 crank as it must be a long stroke. No matter what combination of rods pistons, if the two engines (400cc and 650cc) have different stroke measurements, then the conversion is never going to get to 650cc. Does anyone think I am right in thinking this. I have always read from various forums that only the barrel and piston are different on the two engines. So If I can get hold of a second hand Crank, and rod and piston with barrel. I think I can get to 650 cc with re jetting of the carb.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/19/13 at 12:50:28

[quote author=5275647764436D647272010 link=1366243636/15#21 date=1366400283]Hi Steve,I am yet to measure the 400 piston pin but according to Wambr they are different.Paladin made a very good point that due to our stroke being shorter, If we bored out to 94mm, (which is a stock 650 Bore) we would have a higher revving 484 cc. (I think.)
What I did was buy a 650 engine and bolted it right in.I did buy the wiring loom and carb, decompression unit etc. I only brought the 650 wiring loom because the 400 loom does not have a decomp unit.However u can use a manual decomp as I do now, so a 400 wiring loom will work.
The carbs are the same with smaller jets, so replace them.
The head is the same.
The other way which unless you do it yourself will $$$$, Split the bottom and fit new 650 rod and piston and Bore your barrall to 94mm. If your going that far maybe Bore out to 96 and use Verslagens 96mm Piston.


You say say the 400 has a short stroke so the only way I can see as to get the displacement up, is to fit a 650 crank as it must be a long stroke. No matter what combination of rods pistons, if the two engines (400cc and 650cc) have different stroke measurements, then the conversion is never going to get to 650cc. Does anyone think I am right in thinking this. I have always read from various forums that only the barrel and piston are different on the two engines. So If I can get hold of a second hand Crank, and rod and piston with barrel. I think I can get to 650 cc with re jetting of the carb.

[The stroke being the length of rod. The crank is the same as a 650. They would have used a different height piston in the 400.]

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/19/13 at 12:54:36

The Japs wanted to convert a 650 to a 400 with min effort. Everything is the same except for the Bore and Stroke.
The Rods are clearly different as the 400 has 24B and a 650 has 24A stamped on them.. Or something like that.

I will measure 400 piston hight today to confirm .

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/19/13 at 13:03:24

Easiest way is to bolt a 650 straight in like I did. However in NZ we pay more to register a 650 to a 400, So in the bigger picture I would save money if I plan on keeping bike long term. The bike would say 400 on the outside but 650 inside.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by SteveBless on 04/19/13 at 13:21:53


2C3D2930313D2E2F343D30305C0 wrote:
Easiest way is to bolt a 650 straight in like I did. However in NZ we pay more to register a 650 to a 400, So in the bigger picture I would save money if I plan on keeping bike long term. The bike would say 400 on the outside but 650 inside.


That is what I was thinking. Leaving the 400cc marks on the cases. Tax is cheaper for a 400 than a 650 here in the UK. Although insurance would be the same.
A different conrod does not make up the cc to 650 as it still goes up and down by the same amount. So I am thinking that the barrel and piston width must make up the other 250cc. Does anyone agree.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/19/13 at 13:42:46

Our laws are very similar not surprising as we are all part of the commonwealth.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/19/13 at 13:49:44

[A different conrod does not make up the cc to 650 as it still goes up and down by the same amount. So I am thinking that the barrel and piston width must make up the other 250cc. ]


If one rod is shorter than the other then one will travel less and move down or up before the other.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by Super Thumper on 04/19/13 at 14:11:36

I don't think there is enough material around the cylinder sleeve on the 400 to bore it out and put a 94mm sleeve in it. At the very least it would considerably weaken the cylinder to the point of failure under stress. I have personally bored out several 650's ....there is not enough material in the cylinder sleeve to go larger than 95mm which is why when going to a larger bore like 96 or 97mm you need to bore out the old sleve and put a bigger sleeve in. 97mm is the limit on the 650's without weakening the cylinder. I have not heard of anyone going larger than 97mm on a 650...mine is 97mm. The cylinder sleeve and the actual cylinder need enough material left after the overbore for structural strength. I hope this helps, I would be careful about going to big on the bore on that 400...I have seen engine explosions cause leg injuries. I hope this info helps.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/19/13 at 14:13:13


There is noting that I would want more is for it to be that easy, Because I would have done it too. Please prove me wrong and do it so I can follow.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/19/13 at 14:21:08

[quote author=756B626E606F736869070 link=1366243636/15#28 date=1366405896]I don't think there is enough material around the cylinder sleeve on the 400 to bore it out and put a 94mm sleeve in it. At the very least it would considerably weaken the cylinder to the point of failure under stress. I have personally bored out several 650's ....there is not enough material in the cylinder sleeve to go larger than 95mm which is why when going to a larger bore like 96 or 97mm you need to bore out the old sleve and put a bigger sleeve in. 97mm is the limit on the 650's without weakening the cylinder. I have not heard of anyone going larger than 97mm on a 650...mine is 97mm. The cylinder sleeve and the actual cylinder need enough material left after the overbore for structural strength. I hope this helps, I would be careful about going to big on the bore on that 400...I have seen engine explosions cause leg injuries. I hope this info helps.



[Its got about 106mm which safe usable would be 96mm leaving 10 mm or so.The pic doesn't look accurate but it is.
Same head but in factory the 400 line Bored out to 87 and the 650 line kept boring and stopped at 94mm.
If anyone has a 650 torn down as is interested we could compare measurements.
It is nearly impossible to find good info on the 400. No workshop manuals, nothing.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by SteveBless on 04/20/13 at 10:25:40


3E2F3B22232F3C3D262F22224E0 wrote:
[A different conrod does not make up the cc to 650 as it still goes up and down by the same amount. So I am thinking that the barrel and piston width must make up the other 250cc. ]


If one rod is shorter than the other then one will travel less and move down or up before the other.


Paul. Let me explain!. A crank gose up and down or in a circle if you want to be right about it. The distance that the crank goes up and down is the measurement away from the middle of a turning crank. If it comes up 3inch above centre or up the bore then as turns it goes down the bore a total of 6 inch from the top, TDC. So to get a piston connected to the crank it uses a conrod. That conrod length is calculated with the piston. If its a shallow piston it will be slightly longer than a normal piston. But the piston has to reach the top of the bore to compress the air and fuel. So no matter how long the conrod is, and the combination of conrod and piston. The piston only travels 6 inch like the crank. From the bottom of the stroke to the top. So that is the displacement cc. If we want bigger displacement we have to make the crank go in a bigger circle or movement up and down. To do this we can make it go 4 inch at its highest and 4 inch at its lowest, this makes 8 inch in total. So total displacement would be 8 inch which is bigger. The piston would be shallow this time or it would hit the head.
Anyway I have contacted a friend of mine in Japan. He is English and I have asked him if he can get me some information on the LS400. I am waiting for the reply. If anyone wants to know anything about the 400 let me know and I will ask him.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by Super Thumper on 04/20/13 at 11:47:48

If you have ever seen the movie "The World's fastest Indian" Starring Anthony Hopkins it is based on the true story of Burt Munroe from New Zealand who experimented with an Indian Scout 600cc 42 degree V-Twin of 1920's vintage and raced them on the long sand beaches of New Zealand. He eventually made it to Bonneville in 1962 with his bike and bored out to 850cc ran (178.97 mph) in his first attempt, a world record at the time...he was 63 years old!!!t. Over the years he came back to Bonneville several times with his antique Indian eventually having bored and stroked it out to 950cc. He blew up several engines in the process. his efforts eventually let to a world record for under 1000cc  motorcycles of (183.59) which still stands today.

This is by far my favorite motorcycle story and movie.

My second favorite is about Mike Hailwood's return from retirement to ride a nearly stock Ducati 860 to win the Isle Of Mann TT in 1968. Prior to the race he was almost universally dissed by competitors and the media alike as too old to be competitive! But that as they say is another story.

Here are a few links about Burt Munroe and his quest for the land speed record.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burt_Munro

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=burt+monroe&qpvt=burt+monroe&FORM=IGRE

http://www.gregwapling.com/hotrod/land-speed-racing-history/land-speed-racing-burt-munroe.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmWuxbQ_Ruc


Live To Ride, Ride To Live

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/20/13 at 11:51:52

If anyone wants to know anything about the 400 let me know and I will ask him.

[Yes please I want to know if what your saying is true and keep us informed if you should go ahead with this mod.
Earlier posts on this topic suggest different.]

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/20/13 at 11:56:13

If you have ever seen the movie "The World's fastest Indian" Starring Anthony Hopkins.

[ Yes it is a good movie. I forgot about him, I might download that movie today and watch it. :)]

Watched the Fastest Indian today and at the end of the movie there was a caption that read "The fastest speed under 1000cc still belongs to him. He has held it since the 60s with a 1920s Indian. How is this possible with mod tech these days?

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/21/13 at 12:43:58

Here is a pic from "The Companion CD" showing 24B on a 650 Rod, while the 400 had 25B. I would like to know the length differences but cant find anything on these 400s.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by wambr on 04/21/13 at 22:50:39

here's a photo for comparison: on the right crankshaft LS400, on the left-LS650 and respectively pistons
http://https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_g9uhlqkple8/TdS1P7tm34I/AAAAAAAAAac/yBMDGr2SqL4/%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8B.jpg
http://https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_g9uhlqkple8/TdS1N7v5QQI/AAAAAAAAAaU/imxoVVzHrF4/%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%88%D0%BD%D1%8F.jpg

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/21/13 at 22:56:20

There is quite a noticeable difference in the crankshafts. And you can see how the 400 piston is higher.
Wambr have you converted a 400 into a 650 before?

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/21/13 at 23:21:53

I haven't pulled mine down that far, does 400 and 650 crankshafts look like they would both fit the same flywheel? What about the primary drive side, Could we in your opinion straight swap out the 400 crank for the 650?

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by wambr on 04/22/13 at 00:20:31

no, I have not altered my savage 400 to 650. it did some guys in Russia this they showed pics. Yes, flywheels on the engines 650 and 400 are the same.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by Super Thumper on 04/22/13 at 07:52:26

Burt Munroe machined his own cylinder heads for his Indian Scout motorcycle which is the clue to his success. The 1920 Indian Scout was 600cc and a FLATHEAD. Burt made his own overhead valve heads. Airflow is EVERYTHING to an engine and Burt found a way to make his breathe  better than anything. Even today with all the high tech computer design no one has been able to beat that record...says a lot for old school ingenuity.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/22/13 at 11:17:40

According to the movie he reached a top speed of 201 mph. :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW61Qiko4sg

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 04/22/13 at 11:26:12


2B3D313E2E5C0 wrote:
no, I have not altered my savage 400 to 650. it did some guys in Russia this they showed pics. Yes, flywheels on the engines 650 and 400 are the same.


So I should be able to replace the Crank Shaft, Piston & Bore out the  Cylinder Head.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by SteveBless on 06/10/13 at 07:11:53

I have the chance of buying a barrel and piston with crank and rod from a 650. Can anyone tell me if that is all I will need to convert a 400cc Savage to a 650cc. Not sure about carb jets, or the balance weight on the crank. The cylinder head I am not too sure about either. I think I have read on here they are the same. But the 400cc does not have a decompression lifter. So could I fit one cheap? (a manual type).

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by wambr on 06/10/13 at 07:37:20


5647534A4B4754554E474A4A260 wrote:
According to the movie he reached a top speed of 201 mph. :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW61Qiko4sg

yeah... I saw this movie! just cool! man played his cherished dream... we can firmly say-life was not lived in vain! thank you Paul!
to SteveBless
Steve, do it! believe me, that nothing particularly hard in this matter, no. have to put the other jets in the carburetor and decompressor lever ...can be hand operated.
good hunting!

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 06/10/13 at 12:44:13


486F7E6D7E59777E68681B0 wrote:
I have the chance of buying a barrel and piston with crank and rod from a 650. Can anyone tell me if that is all I will need to convert a 400cc Savage to a 650cc. Not sure about carb jets, or the balance weight on the crank. The cylinder head I am not too sure about either. I think I have read on here they are the same. But the 400cc does not have a decompression lifter. So could I fit one cheap? (a manual type).

Yes except for one more thing. You will need the head assembly as the 400 head does not have the decompression controller/lifter.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by SteveBless on 06/10/13 at 15:17:51

Paul, is it possible to fit a manual lifter onto my Cylinder head?.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 06/10/13 at 16:28:56

This is the 650. The HOLDER, DECOMP CABLE is held in with 2 crews as I have highlighted with red circles.And the SHAFT, DECOMP is highlighted with the single circle.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 06/10/13 at 16:30:20

Now the 400 doesn't have the holes there to mount one as you can see in the pic.It looks like the sharft hole goes right through but it doesnt.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 06/10/13 at 16:35:11

This is where the decomp shaft would come through if this was a 650 head.
Buy a 650 head and be done with it.
Maybe if your clever you could drill the holes and mount one. I have never done this. You could put the 400 on without the Decomp. But run the risk of burning out your starter.
My decomp is manual and more often than not I don't use it.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by Cloudy on 06/10/13 at 16:35:37

Does look possible to do though. Drill and tap holes for screws and bore for de-comp shaft

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by paulmarshall on 06/10/13 at 16:38:52


042B2832233E13352E2C2235470 wrote:
Does look possible to do though. Drill and tap holes for screws and bore for de-comp shaft

Yes it could be possible. I swapped complete engines and didn't have these problems.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by SteveBless on 06/11/13 at 00:21:12

Well thanks guys for all the info and pictures. This site is so good and lots of info on here. I will decide what to do in the next few days. I think if I did swap the barrel piston and crank I would leave the head for the time being as the bike is only for weekend runs. I will get a head later if I am to keep the bike. Again thanks all.

Title: Re: LS400 vs 650
Post by Dave on 06/11/13 at 06:26:46

If you only ride in warm weather, if you do not install a Wiseco high compression piston, and if you awlays have a good battery.....you might be able to do without the compression release.  If you hit the starter button and the piston is on the compression stroke and it stops....you have to immediately let off the starter button, then put the bike in 2nd or 3rd gear and pull backwards to get the piston off the compression stroke.....then put it back in neutral and then hit the starter button.  It happens to me about 1 in every 200 starts, and I have the Wiseco piston that increases the compression from 8.5 :1 to 10:1.

To modify your head not only do you have to drill the horizontal hole for the shaft - you have to drill and tap the hole for the bolt that holds the shaft in.  It is the bolt in this photo that is angled on the other side of the valve cover hole.

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