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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> no change after white spacer mod /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1365979491 Message started by dabid on 04/14/13 at 15:44:51 |
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Title: no change after white spacer mod Post by dabid on 04/14/13 at 15:44:51 Hey guys, I just replaced the white spacer with the three washers supplied in Lancers kit. I have a stock airbox and filter, with the blue collar bobbers exhaust (straight pipe with baffle inside) When i shut off the bike, I still get a loud gunfire pop, sometimes it takes as long as 5 or 6 seconds after. I am running a 52.5 pilot and 150 main. Why am I still getting the super loud backfire? thanks! |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by rfw2003 on 04/14/13 at 15:51:45 Have you checked all exhaust connections to make sure there are absolutely no leaks. Do this with a candle if you have to, to make sure. A leak on any of the connections is one of the biggest causes of the shotgun blasts on shutoff and during shifts. R.F. |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by apache snow on 04/14/13 at 15:52:36 When I went to a 55 pilot mine got better with the muffler farts. The needle only controles from 1/4 to 3/4 throttle (midrange) although there is some overlap. How many turns out is your fuel screw? |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by Serowbot on 04/14/13 at 17:16:48 It may be that the pipe is just too open... In which case,.. you basically just have too jet it rich enough, that it runs bad enough, that the exhaust temps won't ignite fuel... and instead, it will just dribble fuel out back end... That's the only way I can figure that some members are getting mpg's in the 30's... :-?... |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by apache snow on 04/14/13 at 17:24:05 With three washers you did not raise the needle that much. I would try two washers and find out where I was on the pilot. |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by engineer on 04/14/13 at 18:52:11 I don't think a delayed back fire after you shut off the engine is caused by the same thing as the back fires people get while running and backing off the throttle. For a delayed backfire to occur after shut off you need the same three things you always need for combustion, fuel, air, and a source of ignition. Sometimes fuel can build up, then as the exhaust begins to cool a leaky joint can suck in air or maybe there is a decent fuel air mix already in there from a quick shut down, and some existing hot spot, maybe a glowing piece of carbon that has built up, sets off the bang. Letting it idle down for a while might help, it often does with lawn tractors that have a delayed pop. Making certain there are no exhaust leaks might help. The two nuts on my manifold studs were loose. Beyond those two easy things it gets more complicated. I'm still working on the same problem and I'm hoping you'll get an answer. |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by Dave on 04/15/13 at 04:54:31 The washers and needle have nothing to do with the pop on shut down. The needle affects the mixture from about 1/4 throttle to about 3/4 throttle. Changing the needle by removng washers will richen the mix up, and will be most noticeable as you slowly open the throttle to accelerate.....if you get a hesitation or lurching you need to be a bit richer. The "afterfire" upon shut down is caused by the fact that you have turned off the ignition - and as the engine is spinning it is pumping unburned fuel and air into the hot exhaust pipe. When the unburned fuel and air are heated by the exhaust pipe - they can reach a temperature that will cause them to ignite....and POOF! I do believe that a rich mixture in the exhaust will "poof" while a lean mixure will "POW"....and that it is the fuel mixture at idle that controls this isue (pilot jet and idle mixture screw).....it is not the needle or washers. I would jet your engine in a way that it runs good - and let your engine idle for 20-30 seconds before you shut it down and see if that helps any. |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by gdrseeker on 04/15/13 at 08:37:24 I found that shutting the bike off correctly after letting it idle for about 10 seconds helps. To shut off correctly 1) Pull up to parking space, 2) Put bike in neutral, 3) Put kickstand down, 4) Idle for 10 seconds, 5) Turn key to the off position. DON'T Use the engine kill switch. or Put the kickstand down in gear to kill the engine. |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by apache snow on 04/15/13 at 08:50:59 Key, kill switch, and kick stand all cut off the fire to the spark plug. The spark plug doesn't care which one does it. |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by dabid on 04/15/13 at 08:58:53 Ok, So I am going to double check for exhaust leaks. I will take her for a spin to get the motor nice and warm, and then try a proper shut down. I usually just pull up and hit the kill switch. I will try the 10-20 second idle and see what happens. It is such a huge pain to keep taking the carb on and off, i have the Blue collar bobber kit which makes taking the tank off a real pain. On a side note, I am adding a K&N in a week or so, so I might need to go up size on my pilot jet. Ill update after today. thank you everyone for the help!! |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by dabid on 04/15/13 at 09:05:23 3D2C3D3F34392F32332B5C0 wrote:
I have the Fuel screw at 2 turns out. Maybe I will richen it up a bit around 2.5 turns and see what happens. Thanks for the Help!! |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by paulmarshall on 04/15/13 at 11:31:38 DON'T Use the engine kill switch. or Put the kickstand down in gear to kill the engine. [Whats wrong with using the Kill Switch when shutting down our engines?] |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by paulorlo on 04/15/13 at 11:55:03 +1 Dave on the cause of the after ignition shut down pop. If this engine was fuel injected, no more fuel would be dumped into the combustion chamber after ignition shut down. The electrical pulse to the injectors would be stopped and no more fuel dumped into the combustion chamber. The spinning down of the carbureted engine fills the exhaust pipes with the same air fuel mixture dumped into the combustion chamber during the idling ignition on stage, even though the ignition is turned off. The delay in ignition of this unburned fuel mixture is caused by the migration backwards to the hottest spot in the exhaust system near the begining of the exhaust pipe. If you want to hear a louder shut down pop, just turn off the ignition key at a higher RPM. At night you can see flames coming out the exhaust pipe and the sound is similsr to a gun going off. |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by verslagen1 on 04/15/13 at 12:05:30 5E5D4B4A5C5C525C4B390 wrote:
Being one to nearly always use the kill button to 'kill' it... why is one switch better than the other? Are you afraid of wearing them out? |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by apache snow on 04/15/13 at 12:08:16 6170647D7C70636279707D7D110 wrote:
The only problem I have using the kill switch is I leave it on and the next time I try to start the bike I wonder why it won't start. :o |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by Charon on 04/15/13 at 12:44:16 I think the biggest problem with using the kill switch is it makes forgetting the key switch much easier, since the engine isn't making any sound. The only reason the kill switch is even installed is for emergency shutdown if the throttle sticks open. |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by verslagen1 on 04/15/13 at 13:36:32 Baring the 'dang, I forgot the key again' moments... Our ig circuit is enabled by the kill switch and in turn by the ig switch. One of the biggest hazards to our bike is leaving the ig circuit powered up for extended periods. energizing the coil overnite will burn up a transister in the CDI. The cost of repairing or replacing that switch is a hell of a lot cheaper than the CDI. http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx211/babyhog/S40/1986WiringDiagpg2.jpg |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by dabid on 04/15/13 at 14:44:57 UPDATE So I was messing around with the carb after a good 45 min ride. I kept trying a nice slow shutdown, as suggested, but I still got the POP. I gave a tweak to the exhaust header bolts, they seemed good and tight already. Still POP But then i turned down the idle a bit. That did the trick! I dont have a tach, planning on installing within the next few months. But i slowed it down to what I thought was a reasonable idle, and it shut down nice and smooth. Tried it a few more times, no more POPs. Thanks very much for the help everyone. Much appreciated. |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by old_rider on 04/15/13 at 21:34:28 Not to hijack but.... white spacers.... can find any nylon or delron spacers anywhere here. I tried home depot, lowes, ace (out of stock no idea when coming in) and local hardware store. Anyone ? some on ebay maybe? |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by rfw2003 on 04/15/13 at 23:37:19 50535B4D565B5A4D3F0 wrote:
Just get a Jet kit from Lancer you need the jets to tune it properly anyways, and he supplies 3 steel washers to fine tune the needle. With all 3 washers it comes in at just under the factory spacer. His jet kit is much cheaper then buying all the jets and the washers or #4 nylon washer separately. R.F. |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by rfw2003 on 04/15/13 at 23:40:48 7E7B78737E1A0 wrote:
Just make sure you don't get the idle to low, you should still be doing about 8 to 10 mph in first gear on flat ground with the engine at idle to be at the safe range for the motor. The savages engine needs to idle at least 1000 rpm for enough oil flow to lube the top end of the engine or you start doing damage if the idle is lower then that. R.F. |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by apache snow on 04/16/13 at 05:53:18 I bought a nylon bushing about the same dia as the stock spacer from Ace. The bushing was 3/4 of an inch long so I just sawed off a slice and made my own. The one I made raised my needle up .030. |
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Title: Re: no change after white spacer mod Post by old_rider on 04/16/13 at 16:03:21 Drove 40min to next ace hardware...they had what I needed, i bought 4 not knowing how many I would need. Turns out I only needed one, emptied tank of gas, removed seat, removed tank (well unplugged it and set it on a chairback, didn't remove the speedo cable), took carb apart, removed washer, replaced with just one nylon washer, reinstalled carb parts, replaced tank, replaced seat, put half tank of gas in it, started it up, ran it down the highway. It had no surges, good pull in the mid range, no popping, I think I have it about where it should be. On shutdown it does a little Poof, but that might be cause I might have the idle a little high. Thanks for the help and the tech posts, had no trouble with the screws, did it all in about 20 min. including the test ride! Now its ready for the wife :) |
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