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Message started by OldSport on 04/11/13 at 09:31:58

Title: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by OldSport on 04/11/13 at 09:31:58

I am converting a 1986 Savage into a cafe style bike. The first issue I have is the electrical system. If the battery is fully charged the bike will crank and run for awhile, but the battery drains pretty fast. The guy I bought the bike from said the stator was bad. The manual says to check the continuity of the stator across all three wires and this seems to be good. When the bike is running I get zero voltage reading at the battery, when the bike is off I show 13.5 volts on a full charge. Direct short? I have purchased a wiring harness from an 04 and thought I would try hooking everything back up. Ideas?

Title: Re: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by OldSport on 04/11/13 at 09:34:21

I have started a blog about this project pictures are there. Constructive critisim is welcom.

http://thelycanproject.blogspot.com/

Title: Re: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by wambr on 04/11/13 at 09:46:16

the simplest thing in this situation is to disable all electricity consumers . in addition to the ignition system and charge the battery . and then connecting them one by one, measure the voltage on the terminals of the battery

Title: Re: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by scubachef on 04/11/13 at 09:59:03

I agree with disconnecting everything and slowly start making the connections again one by one until the culprit shows itself This can be long and tedious but will actually save time versus chasing down all the possibilities with everything hooked up.

Title: Re: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by oldNslow on 04/11/13 at 10:01:55

If you have a Clymers the tests you need to do are on pages 210 and 211

1. With the engine running at 5000rpm a voltmeter connected across the battery terminals should read between 14 and 15.5 volts. If not in this range then..

2. With voltmeter set on the 0-150VAC range test the three yellow wires coming from the stator. With the engine at 5000rpm you should get at least 100VAC between any two pairs of those wires.

Fails = bad alternator
Pass = possible bad voltage regulator/rectifier.

Zero voltage across the battery terminals with the bike running has me puzzled. Should still read the no-load voltage minus whatever the bike needs to run,even if the charging system isn't working at all.

Title: Re: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by Serowbot on 04/11/13 at 10:03:33

Check for AC voltage on the three yellow wires coming from the stator, under the seat... any two of those wires should give 100v AC, when you rev up the engine rpm's... (manual says at 5k rpm, but, just see if it's puttin' out pretty good) mine was reading 5 to 12v AC... when it was bad...

Title: Re: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by cafecarl on 04/11/13 at 11:22:33

The '04 wiring harness will have some conection issues on an '86, I think. Is the stock one a total birds nest?

Title: Re: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by verslagen1 on 04/11/13 at 12:22:19

40246B666E6F640A0 wrote:

The '04 wiring harness will have some conection issues on an '86, I think. Is the stock one a total birds nest?

Yep, the cdi connector is different, but you can just clip the old one off and put it on the new harnass.

next the front brake switch is different. but I don't remember if the hook up is the same.

Title: Re: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by OldSport on 04/11/13 at 12:38:49

You are right about the harness, several of the connections are different. I will try unpluging the other connections and tracing it that way. Did I understand the post that said the stator should be putting out 100 volts? Is that AC before it goes into the rectifier? Does anyone know the power output and what the bike needs to run with lights. I had a GS500F and it produced about 17 amps and it took about 8.5 amps to run the bike.

Title: Re: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by oldNslow on 04/11/13 at 13:00:57

Quote:

Did I understand the post that said the stator should be putting out 100 volts? Is that AC before it goes into the rectifier

Yes, it's 100Volts AC. Alternators only produce alternating current. The rectifier/voltage regulator changes it to DC and drops the voltage to around 14 or so.

Title: Re: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by Cavi Mike on 04/12/13 at 00:35:34

How many wires are coming out of the rectifier? My guess is 6 and you only have 5 going to it. The 6-wire rectifier needs a signal going to it to tell it to "turn on" and start charging the bike. If you only have 5 wires going to it (3 yellows on one plug, 2 wires on the other) then you need a 5-wire rectifier or what's known as a "self-exciting" rectifier.

Title: Re: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by OldSport on 04/12/13 at 08:04:11

When I started the bike for the last time before I started the disassemble I noticed a little puff of smoke from the starter wire but the bike started and idled. When I removed the starter and set it aside I was able to turn the spindle freely. When I picked it up yesterday it seemed stiff, but I rewired everything and gave it a try. Nothing happened when I hit the starter. I checked the wiring and tryed again, nothing. I removed the starter and removed the end caps. It appears that the last effort when the bike started completely fried the starter. It turned freely then as it cooled locked down. I traced back and found a bare spot on the starter wire where it had rubbed through the insulation. This maybe my problem but after the bike was running wouldn't the solenoid have shut off power to the starter motor? I have taken the starter to my local guy who repairs starters and alternators I have also taken the solenoid to have it checked. I will have to put any other test off until I get the starter back. I will post again after I get the starter back.

Title: Re: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by Cavi Mike on 04/12/13 at 16:25:14

6D4E4671524D5056220 wrote:

Wouldn't the solenoid have shut off power to the starter motor?

I'm not sure what you're implying happened here but the starter stops spinning when you take your finger off the start button.

Title: Re: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by OldSport on 04/23/13 at 07:08:56

Ok, I installed the new starter and left everything I deemed to be unimportant unplugged lights horn so forth. The bike cranked and idled pretty well. The battery had set for a few days but read 10.6 DC volts with the meter before I installed it in the bike. once the bike was idling I unplugged the stator from the rectifier. I get 46.6 volts AC across all poles at idle. I was by myself so unable to turn the bike up to 5000 or so RPM, which will be a guess anyway without a tachometer, this is where I should get 110 volts AC, at 5000 rpm right? I could not get a stable reading coming out of the rectifier for DC voltage. But the DC voltage at the battery at idle is a steady 13.7 volts. This is as it should be, right?

when I removed the rear fender I discovered a rats nest (loose ened wiring) on the rear wiring for the lights. The head light works fine but the turn signals are on all the time and do not flash when I turn on the signals they just get brighter. I am assuming there is a problem here as well either in the lights or the flasher or both.

Went back and checked the stator output at elevated RPMs. I could get a reading of over 100 volts from the stator and the battery would show over 14 volts at higher rpms. I am assuming that the charging system is OK. I removed all lights and replaced the turn signals with simple ones I had removed from a GS500F I had previously owned. These seem to function perfectly.

If I place the positive voltage meter lead on the starter lead and the negative lead to ground (the frame) What voltage should I get when the starter switch is depressed?

Title: Re: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by Cavi Mike on 04/23/13 at 11:35:21

1C3F3700233C2127530 wrote:

If I place the positive voltage meter lead on the starter lead and the negative lead to ground (the frame) What voltage should I get when the starter switch is depressed?

That's a completely pointless check and means nothing. What exactly is the problem here? From what you just said you've fixed the signal problem, your bike is starting, running, idling and charging just fine.

Title: Re: Cafe build electrical problems
Post by OldSport on 04/25/13 at 10:56:49

Guess you are right. thanks.