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Message started by Cpt.Brad on 04/08/13 at 05:04:12

Title: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Cpt.Brad on 04/08/13 at 05:04:12

Just bought this bike from a certain dealership near me. And after 100 miles of riding notice an extremely slow oild leak coming from back right cylinder head bolt. Its the long one that goes maybe even down to the case. Anyhow I checked it and indeed it was loose so I tightened it only to be panic stricken when upon turning the wrench there was little resistance and that the bolt was (actually the threads way down at the bottom) stripped. It had obviously been cleaned up so as not to be noticed and since it was such a slow leak even the thorough check I gave it at the dealership couldn't have found it. I took it back to the dealership and am waiting to hear the verdict but I am hoping to get some help. What do yall think. I paid a higher end price for the used bike based on the fact that it had only 1600 miles and was in perfect cond. with no problems. Well so I thought. I don't know I just felt like the pulled one over on me and Im hoping that even if they didn't know about this that they are willing to help me out. Im still willing to pay them some but I refuse to let them stick me with a full price bill, Id just as soon take it somewhere else. :(

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by engineer on 04/08/13 at 05:32:24

It could have been cleaned up by the PO before it got traded in at the dealership, you'll probably never know. A bigger question is why is it stripped, what problem led to someone stripping out the bolt on a supposedly low mileage bike? I would put that question to them and use it as leverage to get them to do what you think is best for you. It doesn't seem to me that you should have to pay them any additional money for a repair.

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Oldfeller on 04/08/13 at 07:19:10

Not to worry, you need a longer bolt. You can order several increasingly longer ones on line with little trouble.

There is extra threaded hole depth left in the hole that had the top part strip out. There are lots of references on line on how to turn a bolt into a one time tap, so do that to your longest bolt.

Once you tap down to find the bottom of the existing drilled hole and have tapped as deep as you can, count the turns of engagement. If you have four turns or more you can use the hole "as is" without drilling for additional depth, just go with a very mild tightening of the bolt.

Spec on those things is 70 to 100 inch pounds (you can read that as 5 to 8 foot pounds, 5 pounds being moderate finger pressure) and YOU DON'T HAVE TO TIGHTEN THAT MUCH TO GET IT TO SEAL. Your goal is to tighten it just enough to seal the oil leak, then quit. Since it is a no loss proposition, you can sneak up on it from the bottom end gradually.

Notice this method requires no disassembly and no big labor charges, so of course the dealerships won't tell you about it.

But we will ..... ;)

=====================

Next, read up on the head plug leak -- go to the index at the top of TECH SECTION to find it. Odds are some of you leak may be coming from this, but since you stripped the threads on the long bolt you have to fix it anyway.

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Gyrobob on 04/08/13 at 07:30:55

This forum is one of the very best things mankind has ever achieved.

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Bubba on 04/08/13 at 07:41:30

I had the very same bolt stripped out on a bike I bought to fix and sell. Tried the method above but it was too far gone...

pulled the engine and put it on the bench (it's heavy btw... ;D).
anyway i ended up fixing it with a helicoil kit and sold it to my friend's wife (she bought for his birthday)...still going strong and made a few bucks on the way...

if the dealer does that they will likely charge you plenty btw...

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by paulmarshall on 04/08/13 at 11:48:11

[There is extra threaded hole depth left in the hole that had the top part strip out[/u]. There are lots of references on line on how to turn a bolt into a one time tap, so do that to your longest bolt.

Once you tap down to find the bottom of the existing drilled hole and have tapped as deep as you can, count the turns of engagement. If you have four turns or more you can use the hole "as is" without drilling for additional depth, just go with a very mild tightening of the bolt.]

I too had this prob. I did exactly like what OF talks about here, and yes you can re-tighten a slightly longer bolt back down. ;)

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Serowbot on 04/08/13 at 12:18:03

7D4348555855583A0 wrote:

This forum is one of the very best things mankind has ever achieved.

Can we have this framed?... ;D ;D ;D...

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by rfw2003 on 04/08/13 at 12:19:30

There is a thing called the Lemon law which protects you from such as this. They sold you a defective product and it's upto the dealer to fix and or replace it. If they try to charge you for the fix threaten getting a lawyer about it for miss-representing the condition of the motorcycle and I will almost guarantee they will fix it for free.

R.F.

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by apache snow on 04/08/13 at 12:30:52

I believe that only applies to new vehicles, not used ones.

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Cavi Mike on 04/08/13 at 15:08:41

5D4C5D5F54594F52534B3C0 wrote:

I believe that only applies to new vehicles, not used ones.

Not true at all.

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by apache snow on 04/08/13 at 16:03:17

032136290D292B25400 wrote:

[quote author=5D4C5D5F54594F52534B3C0 link=1365422652/0#8 date=1365449452]I believe that only applies to new vehicles, not used ones.

Not true at all.[/quote]

I was thinking about my state. Only 6 states have used vehicle lemon laws. Connecticut, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico and New York . You just happen to live in one of those states.

And in this case the dealer may not have know about this problem if the person they got it from cleaned it up and did not say any thing about it so the dealer did not knowingly deceive the buyer. And many of the better dealers will offer some kind of remedy in this situation.

http://www.edmunds.com/auto-warranty/my-used-cars-a-lemon-am-i-stuck-with-it.html

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by rfbznb on 04/08/13 at 17:50:44

I had the thing happen to me 2 years ago.
I got a longer bolt and it lasted 2 years then when I redid the motor I took the bolt out and put a helicoil in it.
this is the bolt I used
http://www.mcmaster.com
part # 93275A028
Black-oxide Steel Spacing Stud, M6x1mm Size, 175mm L, 35mm & 35mm Thrd Lengths

and this is the helicoil kit I used
advanceautoparts.com
Part No. HEL5546-6
Heli-Coil Thread Repair Kit M6 x 1in

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by noah7324290 on 02/17/15 at 06:45:04

Hello I just got my bike a few months ago during winter to start my project it all done but I have a stripped cylinder head the long 10 bolt...I ordered what the guys in the post before me did is going to try that just wondering if it's should have oil coming out of the top on fire up I didn't have the bolt in at all and oil went everwhere

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by verslagen1 on 02/17/15 at 07:02:23

yes

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Dave on 02/17/15 at 07:03:45

4C4D434A151110161012220 wrote:

Yes oil will go everywhere with this bolt removed, as this bolt goes through the passage that supplies the oil to the top of the cylinder head. Don't run your bike until you get this fixed - as no oil will be going to the cam or valves until you have that bolt back in place.

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by noah7324290 on 02/17/15 at 15:29:16

I bought the bolt the person before me had posted and it's double side threads and when I have it in and tight the oil still comes out cause there's no bolt at the end just threads in pissed I got this and have to make mods I should've just got a 135mm

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Steve H on 02/17/15 at 16:17:09

If I am thinking correctly here, the one end screws into the block and the other, sticking up out the top, should have a nut and washer on it.

Somebody please correct me if I am wrong.

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by noah7324290 on 02/17/15 at 16:43:56

Yea but the one the guy said he used was double threaded

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Dave on 02/17/15 at 17:54:17

If you got the one that is threaded on both ends - the you need to clean and apply a silicone sealant on the washer and nut when you install it...this bolt originally had a sealing washer on it. You need to get the top sealed as this bolt has oil pressure against it. (An acorn nut would be ideal is you have the length of the stud exactly right).

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by noah7324290 on 02/25/15 at 13:29:33

It won't let me post the pic off my phone

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by noah7324290 on 02/25/15 at 13:31:41

Hopefully this will work

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by verslagen1 on 02/25/15 at 14:17:43

as long as you have rtv between each washer it should work.

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by noah7324290 on 02/27/15 at 06:30:25

I got a heli coil kit and I'm going to pull the head off soon to install it how bad is it removing and re installing the head and cylinder jug

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Dave on 02/27/15 at 06:44:06

53525C550A0E0F090F0D3D0 wrote:

I got a heli coil kit and I'm going to pull the head off soon to install it how bad is it removing and re installing the head and cylinder jug

You will have to pull the engine out of the frame - or at a minimum get all the mounting bolts out so that the engine can be tipped in the frame. The cylinder will not come off with the engine mounted to the frame.

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/27/15 at 07:48:19

Sometimes just stopping by a machine shop and talking to someone is a good plan. An offer to sweep up or empty trash gets busy people's attention.
Are the threads in the case?

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Dave on 02/27/15 at 07:53:28

2D3234332E2918281820323E75470 wrote:

Sometimes just stopping by a machine shop and talking to someone is a good plan. An offer to sweep up or empty trash gets busy people's attention.
Are the threads in the case?

Nope...it is the long stud in the right rear of the cylinder - the one that is also the oil galley to the head.

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by noah7324290 on 02/27/15 at 12:33:25

Im working on getting the top of the head off there is so much gasket sealer holding it on it won't budge lol this things is a mess

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by verslagen1 on 02/27/15 at 12:37:49

print yourself a copy of the bolt pattern so you know which bolts go where and which ones must be removed.

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by noah7324290 on 02/27/15 at 12:46:13

I have the Clymer manual but it's not really telling me how it not specific plus there was a rusted bolt that broke off so now I have to extract it

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by verslagen1 on 02/27/15 at 14:00:28

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1099227295

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Elmer on 10/19/16 at 13:02:58

I can confirm that this bolt does have threads below the 120mm it uses. I was able to get a 140mm all the way down with a gasket and bite to stop the oil leak. Did not use any sealant or tape on the threads. It caught tight and stopped the leak 100%.

1996 Savage 23k miles, verslagen plug +

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by TallElf on 10/20/16 at 17:27:49

Where does one stumble across the 140mm bolt you speak of. As i suffer from the same malady and do not wish to do a winter overhaul yet.

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Dave on 10/21/16 at 03:27:27

I would suggest getting a 6mm threaded rod....and turning it into the hole until it lightly seats (runs out of threads) - then marking the rod to the correct length. When you put the threaded rod in the hole for the last time, you can install it with slightly more foRce than lightly seated - but don't put too much force on the rod or you could strip out the only threads you have left. Put the rubber washer and a nut on it, and make it lightly snug....you can tighten it a bit more if it leaks - but you really have to be careful not to tighten it too much and strip the threads. (By using the threaded rod you are assured you have used all the available threads).

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by TallElf on 10/21/16 at 10:00:29

Good call. Ill try that and see what I come up with.

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Fabricio Bino on 10/07/20 at 15:36:19

Sorry for resurrecting this post, but its 2020 and it just happened to me.
I sent my savage to my trusty mechanic and it came back just fine, until it started leaking massively and i had a moment of horror just like OC had. The screw thread was stripped.

Ill update this post with some new information, if i find anything new, or if i need help. English is not my native language, and there are some steps that i didn`t quite understand.

but its true, this forum is the one of the best things mankind has achieved, because until i found this post i was lost and now i have hope!

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/07/20 at 15:43:28

but its 2020 and it just happened to me.

That has been said a BUNCHA times this year,, for countless reasons,,
I AM stayin up on New Years,, to make sure 2020 LEAVES..

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Dave on 10/08/20 at 04:25:01

4D5254534E4978487840525E15270 wrote:

but its 2020 and it just happened to me.

That has been said a BUNCHA times this year,, for countless reasons,,
I AM stayin up on New Years,, to make sure 2020 LEAVES..

I just saw a post on Facebook that claimed the original Mad Max movie was set in the year 2021 - so we have that to look forward to!

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/08/20 at 07:58:49

You'll know 21 is bad if people start talking about missing 20..
I liked the Mad Max movies,, but I sure don't wanna live that scenario.

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Fabricio Bino on 10/08/20 at 14:52:07

So, this is the bolt`s length that was installed in the engine:
http://https://vhdsfw.dm.files.1drv.com/y4muePoP3ngEsvwPG7UdksgxJuhqXwcm2-FEJrmziO_ifYQMl8p5tE0Kmw1tZckfUZw16pDK4OG9p-KCMh5o4JBsC9OnH2bAvhIq0XWHqQGjZMK003kRnPeI2Y_qZ7Ok1_vxsWgNPwIW5JZbzlY3lLoIth1Dzev4MkfpHM8zPm8-xd_NJgc17k-FLxBNffzEyUMcMVmPDQaJmJTZS59kGhrEw?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

Soon Ill get the threaded rod and check how much thread i actually have in the engine

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by Fabricio Bino on 10/08/20 at 17:56:26

Now, with a threaded rod, 2 locknuts, an metal washer and a rubber washer to keep sealed. I started the bike and on idle it did not leak!

http://https://vxdtfw.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m3ckv3igQ8dWfzTfkg-sjajGoCO0iEIRp1V52ypAYFHOIONFswPsENDpzatlrIsKsKQSmdft0kyPTn-JSIov47JgdZBJmEwlqjcwsrtJAPmSOxePdBDrIlbXMiqinzMYeNkbHPXnorwLoKTAf_GtAafgzKcNz-mbfhR_H6lt5x447G3HQ31QDu_BNy0uwBRr_H06a8ltvRvRt94R30TbBow?width=768&height=1024&cropmode=none

Tomorrow Ill ride it and see if everything is fine. Thanks again for all this information!

Title: Re: Stripped Cyl Head bolt threads (the long one)
Post by ohiomoto on 10/08/20 at 17:58:19

Nice work!