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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> New owner-Just a few questions /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1365386803 Message started by sesamestreet on 04/07/13 at 19:06:43 |
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Title: New owner-Just a few questions Post by sesamestreet on 04/07/13 at 19:06:43 Hey all I just picked up a 2005 S40, It was in awesome condition and only had 20000km. Anyways, I had to certify it once bought so I can register it, and the mechanic seemed concerned about the "sound" of the engine. I thought it sounded normal, but he did have a point in that it made a semi-loud hammering sound especially, it's more pronounced at low RPMS but it's also present just while riding. Is this normal? Regardless, I think it's an awesome ride, and I'm wanting to turn it into a bobber once I get my gf to ride her own! one can dream! My second question relates to the startup. I pull the choke out and start it, it runs for about a minute or 2 but begins to slow down and stalls, but if i push the choke in while it's slowing down, it picks back up and runs normal. Now, my only experience with a choke was on my gz250, and with the choke engaged, the rpms would speed up and rev high until i disengage the choke, at which point it would reduce to a normal speed, so what the s40 is doing seems almost like the opposite. Is THAT normal? Thanks! |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by Coaxial on 04/07/13 at 19:09:09 Cam-Tensioner issue? |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by verslagen1 on 04/07/13 at 19:46:57 If it's making this hammering sound on the clutch cover by the oil filter cover then it might be the cam chain. You should look at it. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1191167029 choke has 2 positions, sounds like you're using the 2nd or all the way out position, 1 knotch out and it will rev higher. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by sesamestreet on 04/07/13 at 20:40:47 Hey thanks for the replies, Good to know the choke has 2 positions, I do usually pull it all the way out, I thought that's how it was supposed to be used. And I'm not sure where exactly the noise is coming from. it's like a constant thumping sound when accelerating, if i can compare it to anything, think of a helicopter. There are also little fast ticking sounds here and there. For all I know, maybe that's how the engine is supposed to sound, but i've never been able to compare it. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by WD on 04/08/13 at 06:24:52 Like a Vietnam War era Huey is normal. Ticking could be normal, or the machine could use a valve adjustment. If the idle speed is too low (trying to make it lope like a Harley Davidson) it will tick as the top end is starving for oil... Don't be afraid to ask us about the machine, the shop mechanics never see them and do more harm than good. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by Gyrobob on 04/08/13 at 06:32:53 20000 kilometers is about 12,500 miles. It most likely needs the cam chain tensioner mod, or will need it in the very near future. Verslagen1's reference in reply #2 will tell you all you need to know. In the Double RYCA Build, we checked the bike that had more miles on it (13,700 I think) and it definitely did need the cam chain tensioner mod. See reply 17 here: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1304722902/15 in the "Double RYCA Build" thread. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/08/13 at 06:59:41 For sure have a look at the cam chain. Once you know thats okay you can relax some. That thing lets go & the engine is nearly always ruined, Idle speed is Crucial. People turn it low cuz it sounds cool,, but the oil pressure on these things is less than a cockroaches blood pressure & the cam spins in the aluminum head with no bearing inserts to replace. So, it ruins the head,, LUVlee, ehh? Keep the idle at 1,000 rpm at least. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by sesamestreet on 04/08/13 at 09:51:51 That cam chain mod seems a bit overwhelming to me. It does seem like the engine is idling too low (and it does sound cool) but with no tach I have no idea how to set it to 1000. Maybe i should take it to the shop for them to tinker with it |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by rfw2003 on 04/08/13 at 09:58:44 382E382A262E383F392E2E3F4B0 wrote:
Idle speed in 1st gear should be about 8 mph or so, that will be about 1000 rpm for the idle speed. R.F. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by WD on 04/08/13 at 10:31:46 NEVER let a shop touch critical adjustments or repairs on a Savage. The one exception would be Suzuki City in Biloxi MS, IF the owner and mechanic are the same people (Mike and Joe) that were there in early 1998-July 1999 when I left the coast. They set the bike up correctly, including popping the cover off the air screw and dialing it in. They actually knew the platform inside and out. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by sesamestreet on 04/08/13 at 10:47:54 I shall attempt it myself then :-[ |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by WD on 04/08/13 at 11:25:11 We honestly aren't picking on you. All of us had to learn the bike a step at a time as well. Turn the little goldish knob on the carb clockwise a 1/4 turn, idle speed will come up. Take it down the street in 1st gear, see what the speed is. Turn the knob in a bit more if under roughly 10km/hr, back it out a touch if it will idle in first gear over 15km/hr. The cam chain/tensioner shouldn't be too difficult. Clean hands, clean tools, take your time. Versy's mod will double the life of the stock cam chain. My bike is 15 years old, I'm sure it needs the work done by now. fwiw, I HATE working on carbs, engines, transmissions, etc... and I do my own. That's how bad most dealership mechanics are... :o |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by HJH on 04/08/13 at 12:24:39 My 2002 Savage needed the cam chain tensioner mod at 4,200 miles, so they're not all the same, perhaps due to the actions of the previous owner(s) and the quality of the chain. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by Serowbot on 04/08/13 at 12:25:19 7764200 wrote:
That's the screw-knob right near the choke on the left side of the carb... idle-speed knob... Keeping that idle up to where it makes a smooth, steady, purrr,... is very important to your engine's life and good health.... No lumpy, lopey, Harley imitations... TIP... say out loud... "putt, putt, putt, putt, putt," as very fast as you can... and that's how your idle should sound... Sounds funny,.. but I think it's very close... ;D... |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by sesamestreet on 04/08/13 at 15:06:47 Lots of info here! I don't feel picked on, actually glad you've all done it before so you can share the knowledge ;) I think i'm gonna like it here. and yes i'm familiar with the idle speed knob. I'll try to do it by ear but is it possible to "plug" a tach and measure it that way? I always enjoy working on my stuff, and when i owned the GZ250 i worked on it as needed, albeit not as intrusive as this, but i actually care about this bike! Also, what is the actual mod? is it the welding? I don't know how! |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by verslagen1 on 04/08/13 at 15:26:20 233523313D35232422353524500 wrote:
If you're talking about the cam chain tensioner... It's R&R, I do the welding. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1180206459 |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by Steve H on 04/08/13 at 15:28:18 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1338489898 This is a link to Verslagen's mod info in the marketplace. All you have to do is remove and replace tensioner. You might be able to clip on an auto tach that goes over the plug wire. It will read half the rpm because the Savage is a "wasted fire" ignition. It fires every revolution - once under compression and once between exhaust and intake - hence the wasted fire - then the cycle starts again. Never tried it...don't know how well it will work. Idle in first gear on flat road at 8 to 10 mph is the right speed range. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by sesamestreet on 04/08/13 at 18:28:46 ooh ok, so i open it up and see if i need the piece, and if so i can order it from you. say i drain the oil, can it be drained until i get the part? or is that bad? |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by verslagen1 on 04/08/13 at 18:36:24 2B3D2B39353D2B2C2A3D3D2C580 wrote:
yes, as long as you don't go nowhere with it that is. ;D order a clutch gasket, sometimes you can reuse them, sometimes you can't. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by Digger on 04/08/13 at 20:52:15 Ses, Some folks around here use a diagnostic tach..... Good luck! |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/08/13 at 21:01:21 5A4C5A48444C5A5D5B4C4C5D290 wrote:
Its okay,, but dont run it & never, EVER ride it if theres no gas in the tank.,, |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by Gyrobob on 04/09/13 at 04:47:08 2B343235282F1E2E1E26343873410 wrote:
Don't forget the tires. Make sure they are inflated. The thing handles way lousy on flat tires. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by Gyrobob on 04/09/13 at 04:49:11 7E404B565B565B390 wrote:
Don't forget the tires. Make sure they are inflated. The thing handles way lousy on flat tires.[/quote] Oh yeah,.. the tubes too. Don't forget the tubes. Make sure to put some air in them too so they don't flop around inside the tires. And don't ever ride it with just the tubes. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/09/13 at 08:24:02 I just hadda do that.. IDK why, but that question made me think of something Id heard, long time ago,, some woman asked her hubby if it would hurt the car to drive it w/o gas in it.. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by Gyrobob on 04/09/13 at 14:37:21 627D7B7C61665767576F7D713A080 wrote:
One of the relatives in my current wife's family pulled all the fuses out of his fuse box in his Camaro because he was detailing it for a show. He didn't like all the assortment of colors so he made them all blue to match the color of the car, even gluing some blue fuses in the blank slots so there wouldn't be any empty spaces. I'll bet his fuse block was pretty. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by verslagen1 on 04/09/13 at 14:44:06 4C7279646964690B0 wrote:
One of the relatives in my current wife's family pulled all the fuses out of his fuse box in his Camaro because he was detailing it for a show. He didn't like all the assortment of colors so he made them all blue to match the color of the car, even gluing some blue fuses in the blank slots so there wouldn't be any empty spaces. I'll bet his fuse block was pretty.[/quote] I wonder if they all lit up at the same time. 8-) |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by sesamestreet on 04/09/13 at 15:03:44 good one GYROBOB, i thought the same thing when i read that hahaha i was mainly asking about leaving the dry because i would think the oil that coats the walls might gum up or something after a week of having no oil in it. but i guess that's nothing to worry about. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by sesamestreet on 04/13/13 at 19:41:58 hey just getting geared up for this and making al ist of all torque specs needed. I just need to know what the specs are for the exhaust header bolts? I tried looking through the torque specs list but i'm not exactly sure what i'm looking for. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by WD on 04/13/13 at 22:32:41 Hand tight. As in screw them down with your finger tips, and then use a 1/4" drive ratchet and ONE finger to go no more than 1/4 turn. Or until you feel resistance in the ratchet handle. These particular stud/nut combos get heated and annealed every time the engine is run. They get brittle, surprisingly quickly. And you need to check the tension fairly frequently, they do vibrate loose. Four stroke singles have some funky harmonic issues. JOG will tell you two fingers, I wear a 4-6x glove depending on the brand... One finger on the ratchet is sufficient... |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by verslagen1 on 04/13/13 at 22:50:25 342234262A22343335222233470 wrote:
ITEM N-m | ft-lb Exhaust pipe clamp bolts 18.0 28.0 | 13.3 20.6 |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by rfw2003 on 04/13/13 at 23:12:33 4D5E4948575A5C5E550A3B0 wrote:
ITEM N-m | ft-lb Exhaust pipe clamp bolts 18.0 28.0 | 13.3 20.6 [/quote] He's talking about the header to the jug Verslagen, not the header to the muffler. I think 13 to 20 ft-lbs would either strip those header to jug bolts or snap em off, it doesn't take much for them. R.F. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by verslagen1 on 04/13/13 at 23:35:31 55415015171714270 wrote:
ITEM N-m | ft-lb Exhaust pipe clamp bolts 18.0 28.0 | 13.3 20.6 [/quote] He's talking about the header to the jug Verslagen, not the header to the muffler. I think 13 to 20 ft-lbs would either strip those header to jug bolts or snap em off, it doesn't take much for them. R.F.[/quote] My SSM shows those same torques for the header bolts. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by sesamestreet on 04/15/13 at 18:10:33 UPDATE: sorry for always bumping this thread, but i started operating today. firstly, the adjuster is a bit over 18mm, so I'll have to order that to err on the side of caution. secondly, and i need some advice regarding this, the gasket i peeled most of it off, but some areas i'm having a really hard time getting off. i'm really worried about pieces of it falling into the engine. the disassembly went ok, nothing too difficult. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by Digger on 04/15/13 at 18:43:48 6D7B6D7F737B6D6A6C7B7B6A1E0 wrote:
Resist the urge to use a metal gasket scraper....it's way to easy to damage the engine's aluminum gasket faces. Here's a thread about plastic scrapers and other ways to remove old gasket materials: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1247279495/0 You will find a dead link in said thread concerning a plastic scraper I use. Here are some active links for said scraper (model GTP530A): http://jusntyme.com/products/scrapers.html?p=JK8 http://www.skygeek.com/jus-n-tyme-gtp530a-glass-filled-nylon-scraper-double-angle-tips.html Good luck! |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by sesamestreet on 04/17/13 at 15:53:36 Ok I seriously need everyone's help now. Here's a run down of what I did: Emptied the oil and took the clutch cover off. The tensioner should be replaced, but since verslav didn't have any modded tensionners on hand for another couple of weeks, I felt like I should put everything back together so I can ride it, so the next day I scraped the remaining gasket off and put it all back together. Then I dropped it while checking the oil level (see my thread on the rear turn signal). I rode it for 10 minutes then put it away for the night, pissed off about the drop. Today I went for a ride after work and the acceleration seemed a bit jerky at spots. This was more noticeable in the first and second gears. Then all of a sudden the bike is really jerky and shuts off. Had trouble starting it again and when I did it was hella jerky. Tried putting it on res and prime and it did start but the tank wasn't empty. When jerking it was also backfiring like crazy...wtf is going on??!! |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by verslagen1 on 04/17/13 at 16:00:38 you dropped it? oh no! I'm surprised you're not having worse problems! jk ;D you dropped it, mixing up whatever was on the bottom of the carb bowl. it is now lodged in the jets. Or... you suddenly have a vac leak, run it on prime, replace the vac line. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by sesamestreet on 04/17/13 at 16:03:43 I did notice a clear tube just hanging at the bottom of the engine, not hooked up to anything. What is that clear tube?? And the thing is, it rode fine for like a mile (tiny bit of jerkiness) then all of a sudden it shut off and began acting crazy as I described. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by verslagen1 on 04/17/13 at 16:06:14 Hit the link below... run down the page till you find carb specs in there is the info you need. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by sesamestreet on 04/17/13 at 16:14:10 So that clear tube, is it supposed to be just hanging there? I'm sorry, I still don't know what I'm supposed to be doing looking at those links. I'm assuming that I should clean the carbs?? |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by Digger on 04/17/13 at 19:11:44 2B3D2B39353D2B2C2A3D3D2C580 wrote:
Pic? |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by sesamestreet on 04/17/13 at 20:22:12 Yup, here are the photos, as you can see, the tube goes down from behind the toolbox cover, alongside the engine, and past the frame to hang https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4nAx3ydaFESZXVtRFIyS2g3TVU&usp=sharing |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by houstonbofh on 04/17/13 at 20:34:18 Battery vent line. |
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Title: Re: New owner-Just a few questions Post by sesamestreet on 04/18/13 at 05:01:36 So that's normal then. What's my next plan of action? Just bought some seafoam, gonna give it a go. |
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