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Message started by Qwapy on 04/07/13 at 18:54:16

Title: Bike died, fuse pops when brake is pressed
Post by Qwapy on 04/07/13 at 18:54:16

I was cruising along the HW for about 45 miles at about 65 to 70 mph, happy as I could be, smooth sailing. I took the exit that leads towards my home and as soon as I slowed down to approach the exit the bike started to act up (first thing I noticed was that the lights deemed very fast) like it if it was running out of gas but, it had plenty of gas. I was able to keep the throttle high and managed to reach the traffic light but the bike died on me, no power whatsoever, none.

I had to push my bike about 3 miles until I reached my home. It was one of those days I couldn’t find anybody for assistance [ch61516] . I was glad I live in Florida (flat!), it was a very cool spring evening, about 65 degrees, and that the bike was an S40 and not a Harley. Still those 3 miles seem like 50 and the bike weighted a ton! :'(

But thanks God I made it home safe. Earlier today I pulled the battery out and tested and it was completely dead, no charge. Left it at the auto parts store charging overnight (trickle change).

I looked at Clymer’s and in page 210 talks about the “Charging System Output Test” and I will try that as soon as I get the battery fully charged. Now, the guy at the auto parts store mentioned that maybe the stator was bad on my bike, I do not know?

The battery is about 9 months old, the bike only has 2,200 original miles (is a 2005). What else should I look or check for? Has anybody had that experience before? The bike dying on you because your battery was all of the sudden without a charge?

Any hints?

Thanks!

Title: Re: Bike died, battery (new) has no charge
Post by Routy on 04/07/13 at 19:03:24

There are guys here know this bike better than I. But being as the bike has "batteryignition" I would suspect the charging system is not charging, and the battery went dead.

And there are many things that could cause the cgarging to quit, most likely a bad connection.

Title: Re: Bike died, battery (new) has no charge
Post by Qwapy on 04/08/13 at 07:51:30

There are no loose connection. Now, bad connections? or a bad connector? I wouldn't know. I was thinking also about the voltage regulator but, I will wait until somebody (like you mentioned) with more experience suggest a route to check for the problem (battery not charging)

Title: Re: Bike died, battery (new) has no charge
Post by Dave on 04/08/13 at 07:58:12

The first test is to get the battery charged and back in the bike, and ge the bike running. Then put a voltmeter on the battery and let us know what the voltage reading is when the bike is running.

Title: Re: Bike died, battery (new) has no charge
Post by perajani on 04/09/13 at 05:40:19

This is the problem solving diagram for charging system:

1. First check the battery that battery is ok
2. Engine running, check what comes out of rectifier with voltage meter, must be around 14v to charge... IF NOT ->
3. Check what goes into rectifier when running... 3wires... measure each pair (1-2, 1-3, 2-3) thay each should give you the same amount about 100V... IF NOT -> Stator is broken..
IF stator pairing are OK your problem is the rectifier.

On my 87 I bought 2 years ago, there were now charging. I had to change the stator.

Title: Re: Bike died, battery (new) has no charge
Post by Serowbot on 04/09/13 at 08:11:41

When you checked the connections,...did you check the ground strap?...

Title: Re: Bike died, battery (new) has no charge
Post by Qwapy on 04/09/13 at 08:44:44

Connections are ok, straps are ok. I have not gotten the fully charged battery yet to do the test

Title: Re: Bike died, battery (new) has no charge
Post by perajani on 04/09/13 at 10:45:28

Btw, before changing stator (if diagnost is that), check wiring just next to pulley. If wires are not correctly positioned the will take contact to pulley and insulation is pieled off.

Title: Re: Bike died, battery (new) has no charge
Post by Qwapy on 04/09/13 at 20:32:24

We were able to isolate the problem:
• It was not the battery
• Nor the stator
• Nor the rectifier

It is a short on the tail light (that we had just replaced earlier).

When we connected the battery the bike still had no power so, we checked the fuses and one of them was blown. Put a new fuse and the bike started right away, no problem. Still, something must have blown that fuse, correct?
We checked the lights, turning signals, horn, etc, etc and everything seems to be in order. We pressed the brake pedal and Viola! The fuse popped.

We started to trace back what we had done earlier in the day

We had replaced the stock tail light for a cat’s eye tail light (see picture).

When we were installing the new tail light we noticed that the new tail light only had two cables instead of three cables like the stock light (light, brake light, and ground). So we swapped the light bulb socket from the stock light for the new tail light. We tested and it worked fine, we were still using the original cables and connectors. Everything worked: lights, brake lights, etc. So, I returned home via the HW and that’s was the story I was telling when I started this discussion.

We have not been able to find where the short is occurring, every time we press the brake or step on the pedal, the fuse pops. Now, I was able to ride until I got in the HW with no problem (I used the brake a few times here and there) the problem started when I was exiting the HW and the lights deemed and then the bike died (now, we know why it died, the fuse)

We are baffled; we are using the original light bulb socket with the original three cable connections, why the fuse gets blown?

Title: Re: Bike died, battery (new) has no charge
Post by rfw2003 on 04/09/13 at 20:39:24

616F6B6E636C6D020 wrote:

You are gonna have to trace all the wiring for the brake portion of the light back to the switch to see where the insulation is rubbed off and making contact with a frame ground. My guess is it's most likely gonna be through one of the grommets on the fender or under the fender where it goes through the tunnels there for the wiring. Finding shorts is the fun part of electrical work on any vehicle whether it be the small electrical system on the Savage or the big electrical system on a modern day 18 wheeler.

Sometimes it's just easier to replace the wire all the way from the switch to the light itself then to try and trace it all they way through the harnesses and various tunnels and grommets they pass through.

R.F.

Title: Re: Bike died, battery (new) has no charge
Post by oldNslow on 04/10/13 at 05:25:00

Qwapy,
Just a suggestion. Before you start tracing wires all the way back to the brake lite switch take a real carefull look at everything you did to the light assy. you installed. Whenever an unexpected problem suddenly crops up after a modification of any kind the first thing I'm suspicious of is the mod itself. Take a peek at anything you touched when installing the new light. Might save some time.

Title: Re: Bike died, battery (new) has no charge
Post by Qwapy on 04/10/13 at 05:36:43

OldNSlow, long time not see :) How are you?

The 'only' part we touched was the cable that goes from the tail light (stock) to the harness, we disconnected it to install it on the new tail light because the new tail light(cat's eye) only had two cables instead of three, that was it, we did not touch anything else pass the connector in the harness. We are using the stock socket and the stock cables still

Title: Re: Bike died, battery (new) has no charge
Post by oldNslow on 04/10/13 at 06:40:06

323C383D303F3E510 wrote:

I'm doing fine. Just waiting for some warm weather :)

Is the housing for your new light metal or plastic.? If it's steel I'd check to make sure you didn't pinch a wire when you swapped the socket from the stock light assembly.

Title: Re: Bike died, battery (new) has no charge
Post by Qwapy on 04/10/13 at 06:52:59

It is metal. My son did the install, he is an electrician. He even checked to ensure that the metal casing for the new tail light was no the ground for the installation since it only had 2 cables. But, it was not, hence we used the original wiring and socket. I wish that some of the other members of the forum that had installed this type of tail light can provide an schematic or drawing of the installation they did.

Title: Re: Bike died, fuse pops when brake is pressed
Post by old_rider on 04/10/13 at 07:22:36

From your discription of the problem it sounds like your new housing is grounding to your frame somehow, be it the mount bolts or the light fixture to the housing.

Title: Re: Bike died, fuse pops when brake is pressed
Post by engineer on 04/10/13 at 07:48:47

You said the new tail light was a two wire set up, that means that the body of the new tail light is connected to the cylindrical portion of the two filament bulb and acts like the ground wire.

Then you switched in your old socket and its three wires, that is what I would have done, better ground that way. But the new tail light assembly is probably grounding out one of your filament wires somehow. This is more of a mechanical problem, look to see how one of the wires is touching something metal in that new tail light.

Title: Re: Bike died, fuse pops when brake is pressed
Post by Digger on 04/10/13 at 18:49:45

Here is some info on a little diagnostic tool that may save you some fuses. It is a circuit tester I made:

I made a tool to assist me in doing wiggle checks on suspect circuits. I find that using this tool is easier and cheaper than blowing out lots of fuses as you search for shorts.

It is a license plate light fixture and wiring harness that I removed from an old pickup truck eighteen years ago when I was putting a rear bumper on it:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/Garage/CircuitTesterE.jpg

I cut off the OEM connector and crimped on some spade connectors to the ends of the two wires:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/Garage/CircuitTesterLeadsE.jpg

You can see where I filed down the spade connectors so that they would fit into the holder for the fuse.

I pull the fuse on the suspect circuit, plug my tester leads into the fuse holder, turn on the ignition switch, and wiggle away. If I find a short to ground, the light gets really bright.

If you are testing the headlight/taillight circuit, you may want to disconnect those bulbs first, since, if said bulbs are drawing juice, the test lamp will be burning brightly and thus making it harder to detect shorts.

IHTH!

Title: Re: Bike died, fuse pops when brake is pressed
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/11/13 at 07:05:49

It is a short on the tail light (that we had just replaced earlier).

I dont know Why people dont associate a problem today with work done yesterday. Painful lesson learned, Ill bet.

I wish people would include REcent Work done on the bike with reports of troubles..

This would have been a 20 minute solution had the trouble report included
I replaced the tail lite assembly, now IM having electrical problems.,
BUt newbies to mechanics often dont associate such things. Takes suffering a stubbed toe or 2 to get that neural pathway established.
I wish I had thot to ask

What recent work have you done?

When I first saw the report, Owell,, learning experience for the board.
again

Title: Re: Bike died, fuse pops when brake is pressed -
Post by Qwapy on 04/12/13 at 22:22:45

Problem solved. Thanks to all the individuals that helped (and try to help)in the troubleshooting process. It was a learning experience indeed (and fun, not painful). I guess if we all were knowledgeable about our machines we would not need to look for each others help, wouldn't we?

I followed WD advice and the problem was fixed.

WD wrote on 04/10/13 at 13:10:31

Quote:

Tail light wire to factory tail light wire, brake light wire to factory brake light wire. Bullet connectors, or butt connectors, and some extra wire to extend the bike pig tail to meet the light pig tail. You DO NOT need a separate ground wire. If you have a 3 wire light, the ground wire goes to a mounting bolt, or better yet, is cut off flush with the back of the light.
The factory tail light pig tail gets thrown in the trash with the factory light. The harness end on the bike gets cut off and replaced with something that won't vibrate apart or rot when it gets damp. The ground wire from the old harness gets traced back to where it meets the main harness and gets deleted. Or you can add a ring terminal and affix it to the fender under the seat.

@justin_o_guy2: Nobody is perfect. Thanks for your advice; I will try to remember that next time I run into trouble with the bike. I will have to try to have a talk with my neurons ;D

Title: Re: Bike died, fuse pops when brake is pressed
Post by WD on 04/12/13 at 23:07:46

Swapping lights will generally result in a popped fuse or bulb (or 2) until you get the hang of properly using crimping pliers... and the cheap ones from Autozone or Walmart don't count. I use professional electrician's crimpers, the cheap ones tend to cut through the insulation and cause shorting.

And it is really easy to miswire a light ground and cause a backfeed into the rest of the system.

Title: Re: Bike died, fuse pops when brake is pressed
Post by engineer on 04/13/13 at 06:18:16

Good to hear that the problem is fixed. Thanks for posting the final results. I always enjoy reading these troubleshooting posts but some people never get back and explain what the real problem turned out to be. So like any good detective story it's always better to find out what the culprit was. It's always educational to follow these threads.

Title: Re: Bike died, fuse pops when brake is pressed
Post by Qwapy on 04/13/13 at 12:23:44

Totally agreed ;)