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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> trouble running, maybe the carburetor? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1364725734 Message started by maxtowers on 03/31/13 at 03:28:53 |
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Title: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 03/31/13 at 03:28:53 Howdy fellas, first of all Happy Easter. This morning i took my bike for the first true ride since i got it in december and i put it back together; since then i made just a few very short ride around the neigbourhood and all seemed fine. I have to say that i've checked the forum for this problem but seems that i found nothing that fits my condition so i decided to post my question; if there's already a tread about this i apologise in advance. Here's the deal: the bike starts fine, just a bit of black smoke at idle, but i thought it was because the bike it's a '94 and at that time there was no unleaded fuel here, and also the muffler it's the original one so i thought it might be part of the reason of the black smoke. So i took it for a spin and as soon it got warm it started to run clumsy, and when i stopped at traffic lights it seemed it want to die...i was able to get back home and it died definitely, and it didn't won't start again. I waited it to cool down and it seems to try to start but it doesn't. Here's what i've done to it: new air filter and new oil filter (originals) new spark plug, new oil and Raptor petcock. Seems to me that as long as the engine it's cold it runs good, but as soon as it gets in temperature the trouble starts. To pass the emission test the dealer had to re-jet it but as soon as it got the stamp they put back the original jet. Any suggestion it's highly appreciated. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Dave on 03/31/13 at 05:54:06 It sounds like it is running too rich. What jets are in the carb? |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 03/31/13 at 07:55:13 655E5344555942445F575A45360 wrote:
Hi Dave, i really don't know... but your hint it's a start, i will check the carb and let you know asap... In the meantime thanks a lot :) |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Serowbot on 03/31/13 at 10:08:12 While you're in there, Max... clean the slide... it could be sticking... ;)... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by mikey2004 on 03/31/13 at 15:11:59 had the same problem with my 99. didn't have any black smoke but it ran clumsy and wanted to die ALOT. so I pulled apart the carb and did the small rebuild kit, cleaned the whole thing up, ( the small kit is a new needle valve and seals. think you might want to change that jet to a new one.) the bike has not ran this great since I bought it. and I can tell you now that the po didn't know what he was doing when he did repairs. hope that bit of info helps. the only problem I had when I did the rebuild kit: a lot of the screws on the carb had been stripped out. had to remove and replace most of them. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by WD on 03/31/13 at 16:19:17 You need to do that anyway, replace the soft phillips head with stainles steel allen head. Black smoke? Idle jet is too big. The stumbling sounds like one of the jets sucked up some trash and got plugged. Been there. Several times. Still need to step my jets down a bit, I'm way fat at 155/55, need 152.5/52, mine smokes when rolling down the road... ;D |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/01/13 at 03:28:52 Thank you all guys, as always you're the best:) I have just one doubt: i have little to no experience on dealing with carburetor, so do you think this work can be done by a newbie like me or do you think it's best to take it to the Suzuki dealer and let them do the job? I have the service manual, but it scares me a bit to do this thing, but at the same time i would like to learn... is it too much too soon? Thanks again to all of you Suzukisavage.com ROCKS :) |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Dave on 04/01/13 at 04:08:57 A few of us are getting dealer paronoid as a result of recent stories. The dealers don't seem to be real up to date on the needs of the Savage. Are you compentent enough to take the carb off and mail it to someone if they offer to clean it for you? Where do you live? If you put your location in your profile.....it just could be that one of our experienced members could offer to help if they live nearby. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by WD on 04/01/13 at 05:27:15 He's in Italy Dave. Max, it's very easy. 2 hose clamps and 4 screws. Carb or brake cleaner aerosol with spray tube. Small Philips and small flathead screwdrivers. Check the tech section of the board for the real recommended method of cleaning. My way: Drain float bowl. Loosen the bands on the rubber pieces the carb rides in, rotate carb top to the bike's left. Remove the 4 bowl screws, pull float bowl off. Remove float. Remove the round brass flat head screw looking deals with a hole in the center (the jets). Run a sewing needle through them, followed by spraying cleaner through them. The needle will just push any lodged gunk out. Reassemble in reverse order. Replace float bowl retainer screws with stainless steel allen head screws. Add Seafoam or similar outboard engine fuel system cleaner to the fuel, set petcock so it will fill the carb, start bike. Ride. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Dave on 04/01/13 at 09:04:51 28243D312A32203736450 wrote:
Before you recommend SeaFoam......Read the part again about how the bike will no longer start. That seems to be a bit late for SeaFoam. He has already installed a Raptor petcock.....so the leaky diaphragm is not a cause on this bike. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Dave on 04/01/13 at 09:27:13 1E0D490 wrote:
WD. I just did a seach.....Seafoam is not available outside the US. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by WD on 04/01/13 at 09:48:52 There is a market equivalent. Any marina should have it. An outboard is an outboard. I agree with you, Bill didn't read the symptoms, if the bike isn't starting, adding cleaner and going for a ride isn't going to happen... ;D I'd lay dollars to donuts he has a lined tank with some separation going on or an internally degraded fuel line. Or fueled up at a station with some sand in the tanks. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by bill67 on 04/01/13 at 09:52:13 I read the symptoms and told him how to start it. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by rfw2003 on 04/01/13 at 09:52:56 You also need to remember bill thinks the answer to every problem is seafoam and klotz R.F. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/01/13 at 09:59:20 Drain the bowl into a clear jar. Drain some fuel from the tank into a clear jar. REport results. Also, note how the fuel flows when draining from the tank. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/01/13 at 12:27:45 Ok, so i followed the tutorial on how to clean the carburetor on the technical section and i have some ugly news... http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa448/maxtowers/Suzuki%20Savage/20130401_182453_zps2eddcaab.jpg Now, the big chunks were already in the container, but as you can see the gas that came out from the hole were the petcock sits it's pretty ugly... there's rust in the tank, and this is just the beginning... The gas on the left instead it's the one that i drained from the petcock emptying the tank as the tutorial says. this is the lower bowl of the carb... http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa448/maxtowers/Suzuki%20Savage/20130401_195229_zpsa4a9f727.jpg I just hope to have not compromised the engine... i guess i have to change the tank :'( Here's the carb in the process of disassembly and cleaning... http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa448/maxtowers/Suzuki%20Savage/20130401_185123_zps15b74ccb.jpg some other pics of the carb http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa448/maxtowers/Suzuki%20Savage/20130401_185908_zpsb783a838.jpg http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa448/maxtowers/Suzuki%20Savage/20130401_185546_zps54df5bbf.jpg As SavageWahine noted in the tutorial (step 16a), this is i guess the kind of carb that is featured in the clymers manual (that i don't have, instead i have downloaded the Suzuki service manual). Well, i hope tomorrow that some stuck bolts will come loose thanks to WD40, i will get some brake cleaner and the seafoam (here where i live there are a bunch of hardware stores for yachts and marine applications so i'm confident to find it or something similar. Again and again, thank's to you all guys. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by WD on 04/01/13 at 13:03:40 You don't need a new tank. Just clean it. Dump all the fuel, put the petcock back on. Add 1 gallon of vinegar and top off with water. Let sit a couple days and see if the rust has been taken off the tank walls/base. If not, buy some oxalic acid (wood bleach) and follow the directions for 8.3L of solution. Keep checking the tank, when you see black spots instead of orange spots, it's good. No need to line the tank unless it perforates while pickling the rust. Read THIS thread in its entirety, tribulations and pitfalls of cleaning gas tanks with vinegar. Hey, it's cheap and normally works...http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=32531.0 |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/02/13 at 13:19:07 0C373A2D3C302B2D363E332C5F0 wrote:
Hi Dave so i took the carb apart and with a little bit of frustration i have to say that the only jet of which i can read the size it's the pilot jet, and it reads 47.5, not to mention the two bolts that keeps the throttle are jammed... the main jet it's in a very bad shape and i can't read the size and for the needle jet, where in the tutorial says where it has to be, there's nothing, as a matter looks like this is a different version: http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa448/maxtowers/Suzuki%20Savage/suzcarbmod_zps2a422634.jpg I've disassembled the diaphram and the needle reads 5C16 Hope these few data can suggest you something... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/02/13 at 13:26:49 just now i found this page of the forum, where lists the specs of the carb... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1098869040/7 seems mine it's fairly stock, at least the few parts that i have been able to "decode"... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Dave on 04/02/13 at 13:47:17 Well you found the cause of it running poorly......junk in the carb! If you want to tinker with the jets.....you got some more reading to do. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1309246277 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1309246277 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1221818822 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1244217127 For me....I had great success with a 50 pilot and 150 main, with 2 washers on the needle in place of the white spacer. I had a stock air cleaner and Dyna muffler. Most people try a 52.5 pilor and 3 washers, but this left a flat spot just off idle on my bike. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/02/13 at 18:05:15 Are the floats as bent up as Im thinking they are? |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by verslagen1 on 04/02/13 at 18:22:17 36292F2835320333033B29256E5C0 wrote:
yep, ;you gotta leak... a one way leak, you need new floats. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Digger on 04/02/13 at 20:39:26 Max, What does your carb body indicate here?: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/LS650/CarbIDLocation2E.jpg Then, we'll know what carb you have..... Good luck! |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Charon on 04/02/13 at 20:57:02 So, in the original post you say the dealership re-jetted the carburetor so it would pass its emissions test. They then reinstalled the original jet. And, in the process, they left the crud in the float bowl? And they didn't mention the condition of the float? Some dealership you have. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Dave on 04/03/13 at 04:34:57 76696F6875724373437B69652E1C0 wrote:
Good eye.....I didn't notice that. Was there water in the float bowl.....was the bike in a place that the water could freeze? You really do need a new float. When they don't float, the fuel level will rise, and it will run rich. Just a few mm of fuel level can make a difference in the fuel/air mix, and is a way to fine tune the fuel mix once you have the jets as close as you can get them. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/03/13 at 14:44:35 3F2026213C3B0A3A0A32202C67550 wrote:
Yeah, they are pretty bent up... but i dunk the float in a bowl of water and there were no bubbles coming up, so i think they are still sealed... but i guess that those bents reduce the volume of the floats thus they float less so the carb gets filled more than it should... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/03/13 at 14:49:06 5A616C7B6A667D7B6068657A090 wrote:
Good eye.....I didn't notice that. Was there water in the float bowl.....was the bike in a place that the water could freeze? You really do need a new float. When they don't float, the fuel level will rise, and it will run rich. Just a few mm of fuel level can make a difference in the fuel/air mix, and is a way to fine tune the fuel mix once you have the jets as close as you can get them.[/quote] No, there wasn't water in the floats bowl, and the bike came from Rome, that is way south from where i live and over there the guy from which i bought it basically kept it in it's living room... what about that :-? I keep it in my garage so it's not exposed to cold temperature, and even here it doesn't freeze very often... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/03/13 at 14:52:57 052826262433410 wrote:
Ok, here's what it says: 24040 E3Z1 Hope it says something to you, thanks a lot :) |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/03/13 at 14:57:47 466D64776A6B050 wrote:
Yeah, tell me about it... I start to think that they didn't even touch the darn thing; probably they have done some monkey business with some guy that they knows at the DOT without even taking the bike to the exam... i will not be surprised. and they charged me for like a 150$... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Serowbot on 04/03/13 at 18:42:26 I can't figure how someone could dent float like that,.. but if they still float, and they don't hang up on anything, I'd just set them to the correct level on go with it... :-?... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Digger on 04/03/13 at 20:37:05 7D7168647F67756263100 wrote:
Ok, here's what it says: 24040 E3Z1 Hope it says something to you, thanks a lot :) [/quote] I can't find that ID anywhere. The top line should be one of the following choices: 24C4, 24C5, 24C6, 24C7, 24C2. You may not have a stock carb......dunno! |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by SALB on 04/03/13 at 21:43:19 446967676572000 wrote:
Ok, here's what it says: 24040 E3Z1 Hope it says something to you, thanks a lot :) [/quote] I can't find that ID anywhere. The top line should be one of the following choices: 24C4, 24C5, 24C6, 24C7, 24C2. You may not have a stock carb......dunno! [/quote] He said the bike came from Rome....Durn furin jobs, anyway! ;D |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/04/13 at 04:18:25 So, i know that these aren't the floats (which seems impossible to find on this side of the pond) but due to a very bad floats bowl gasket that i assume i have to change i thought that it might be helpful going with this kit: http://www.ebay.it/itm/350714950552?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 Is it a good call or a waste of money? Oh, and not to mention that this morning while checking on the rust-fighting vinegar in the tank i found two pin sized hole in the bottom of the tank near the petcock... a previous owner had them sealed with some kind of rubber, that i basically peeled off with the tip of a screwdriver. It's gettin' better and better.... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/04/13 at 04:23:30 5F727C7C7E691B0 wrote:
Ok, here's what it says: 24040 E3Z1 Hope it says something to you, thanks a lot :) [/quote] I can't find that ID anywhere. The top line should be one of the following choices: 24C4, 24C5, 24C6, 24C7, 24C2. You may not have a stock carb......dunno! [/quote] Hey man, thanks anyway... i really don't know, but i guess that it's the stock carb, the rest of the bike it's stock from top to bottom so i don't think that someone before me had messed with the carb... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Dave on 04/04/13 at 04:54:39 0E021B170C14061110630 wrote:
The kit does not have the jets that I would suggest you install. I guess you need to clean and seal your tank. I don't know what is available in your area - but I just ordered Caswell Plating Fuel Tank sealer which is an epoxy. My next choice is the POR15 Fuel Tank sealer. The epoxy is supposed to be more durable, fill holes better, and is less fussy about surface condition. This is who I bought the sealer from. You can buy it directly from Caswell - but it is not any cheaper unless you buy 6 at a time. http://www.ebay.com/itm/261044390009?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#shId |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by engineer on 04/04/13 at 06:28:43 The floats look to be brass so if you do find a leak you can solder it closed. When I was a kid buying new parts was not an option and I repaired several brass floats in small engines. How do floats get beat up like that, they can't do it on there own. I can't contribute much to this discussion since I am not well versed in carbs but I do want to say that 1) the technical expertise on this forum beats any on the internet and 2) the way you guys follow through on a problem and continue to offer support is also tops. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/04/13 at 06:32:55 5D666B7C6D617A7C676F627D0E0 wrote:
The kit does not have the jets that I would suggest you install. I guess you need to clean and seal your tank. I don't know what is available in your area - but I just ordered Caswell Plating Fuel Tank sealer which is an epoxy. My next choice is the POR15 Fuel Tank sealer. The epoxy is supposed to be more durable, fill holes better, and is less fussy about surface condition. This is who I bought the sealer from. You can buy it directly from Caswell - but it is not any cheaper unless you buy 6 at a time. http://www.ebay.com/itm/261044390009?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#shId[/quote] Hey Dave thanks, i suppose i can save those 25€ of the kit and use them to restore the inside of the tank... i found here in Italy a company that produce a tank restorer for collectible cars and bikes, it goes for around 50€, it has an epoxy primer and an epoxy coating that resist to gasoline and diesel fuel alike... now i go drain the tank from the vinegar and see how it worked. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by WD on 04/04/13 at 09:36:48 Once the tank is clean inside, you need to lightly dimple the area around the rust out and have the holes soldered shut. Old fashioned copper pipe type plumbing solder. Any traditional radiator repair shop can do the work. A metal repair along with a good epoxy or bake in liner and the tank will be good for several more years (if not decades). I rebuilt and restored to full operational status a set of rusted out 1938 Indian tank halves. Solder is cheap, linings are cheap, new tanks for that era are not. Worked great. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/04/13 at 10:58:13 537E70707265170 wrote:
Ok, here's what it says: 24040 E3Z1 Hope it says something to you, thanks a lot :) [/quote] I can't find that ID anywhere. The top line should be one of the following choices: 24C4, 24C5, 24C6, 24C7, 24C2. You may not have a stock carb......dunno! [/quote] errata corridge: I found a magnifing glass in a drower and i gave another shot at what the carb says, and here it is: 24B40 E3Z1 Also, thanks to the mentioned magnifing glass, i have been able to read the size of the main jet: 130 and the pilot air jet : 70 Now i realize that it might not change anything, but just in case... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by WD on 04/04/13 at 12:39:04 70 pilot jet... wow... you should have a cylinder so soggy that it drowned the spark plug. 55 is too big for most of our machines. 70 is putting you in Big Twin Harley territory... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/04/13 at 14:41:05 6675310 wrote:
Yes, but it's the "Pilot air jet", the one that is under the diaphram... the one next to the main jet, that for what i've seen in the "carburetor cleanup" tutorial on the technical section is reffered as pilot jet is 47.5... At this point maybe the pilot is too small, what do you think? should i try a 50? I'm sorry but i'm new to this stuff so you need to have some patience with this newbie... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by WD on 04/04/13 at 16:17:29 I'll have to re-read the thread and get back to you. 47.5 is stock on older machines, 50 or 52.5 should be more than adequate. Misread the jet you were referencing, I've never pulled the slide out of mine. Never saw a need for the white spacer or needle jet washer stack mods. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/04/13 at 17:25:41 Now i noticed looking back at that ebay listing that i posted at reply #32 and that Dave told me that those were not the jets that he would suggest me, well, those are in effect the jets that i have on my carb, so i guess those are the OEM parts... So back to square one, probably it's just the rust and filth in the tank... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Digger on 04/05/13 at 20:12:04 2428313D263E2C3B3A490 wrote:
Ok, here's what it says: 24040 E3Z1 Hope it says something to you, thanks a lot :) [/quote] I can't find that ID anywhere. The top line should be one of the following choices: 24C4, 24C5, 24C6, 24C7, 24C2. You may not have a stock carb......dunno! [/quote] errata corridge: I found a magnifing glass in a drower and i gave another shot at what the carb says, and here it is: 24B40 E3Z1 Also, thanks to the mentioned magnifing glass, i have been able to read the size of the main jet: 130 and the pilot air jet : 70 Now i realize that it might not change anything, but just in case... [/quote] Some old ID numbers I dug up for pre-'89 model carbs: 24B00, 24B20 Hmmmmm..... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/06/13 at 10:50:54 7C515F5F5D4A380 wrote:
Ok, here's what it says: 24040 E3Z1 Hope it says something to you, thanks a lot :) [/quote] I can't find that ID anywhere. The top line should be one of the following choices: 24C4, 24C5, 24C6, 24C7, 24C2. You may not have a stock carb......dunno! [/quote] errata corridge: I found a magnifing glass in a drower and i gave another shot at what the carb says, and here it is: 24B40 E3Z1 Also, thanks to the mentioned magnifing glass, i have been able to read the size of the main jet: 130 and the pilot air jet : 70 Now i realize that it might not change anything, but just in case... [/quote] Some old ID numbers I dug up for pre-'89 model carbs: 24B00, 24B20 Hmmmmm..... [/quote] I'm starting suspecting that the bike it's not a 1994... probably imported from France; the id plate on the steering tube it's all in french. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/06/13 at 10:57:55 One more update... today, after having well shaked the tank with bolts and screw i added the vinegar and let it sits... so i was bored and thought about checking the spark plug, just in case... i have installed a brand new one when i changed oil and filters so i was almost sure that it would be ok... WRONG! From what i've read on internet it could ba a symptom of running rich... Is it right? http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa448/maxtowers/20130406_192300_zpsbe345f5f.jpg Anyway, tomorrow i put the bike back together, put a fuel filter between the petcock and the carb and see what happens |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by WD on 04/06/13 at 16:38:11 Rich and/or too cold of a spark plug. Go up one heat range before you fiddle with the jets too much. If you do a lot of in town slow or stop and crawl riding, the stock plug isn't hot enough. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/06/13 at 17:37:52 6D7E3A0 wrote:
Ok, Thanks. :) But the "fun" part it's that this one has maybe less then 10 miles, i never ridden really the bike, just couple of rounds once in a wile around my block (it wasn't insured) just to let the engine run a bit and let the new oil flow. Also, this is the spark plug indicated in the owners manual, the NGK DPR8EA-9... Anyway, tomorrow i try to turn it on and see what happens... Thanks to You guys i'v been able to narrow down and tackle a bunch of problems that this bike came with... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/09/13 at 09:39:14 So, after putting back together the bike i took it for a spin and aside for another gas leak in the tank it runs pretty nice now... good sound, no smoke from the exaust and the ride was just perfect... only some backfire when releasing the trottle at high rpm in 4th or 5th gear... I also found a product here in Italy specifically developed for old cars and bikes, essentially it's an epoxy coating for the inside of the tank, just like the Caswell. Will let you know how it came out:) |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Dave on 04/09/13 at 10:01:17 2D2138342F37253233400 wrote:
You need to get the bike warm and ride around before ou take a plug reading. I will look around and see if I can find a link for taking plug readings....rather than type it all here. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/09/13 at 10:47:56 172C2136272B30362D252837440 wrote:
You need to get the bike warm and ride around before ou take a plug reading. I will look around and see if I can find a link for taking plug readings....rather than type it all here.[/quote] Hi Dave, i have made a little research, as a matter of fact it's the first result on google but it seems clear to me: http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/faqs/faqread.asp I have just one doubt, i heave read somewhere that the spark plug has to be taken off with the engine cold, or else there will be troubles... So i think i have to run the bike untill it's warm and then wait to it to cool down, am i right? |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Dave on 04/09/13 at 11:40:42 I would use some Anti-Sieze on the plug. The thing you don't want to have happen is the aluminum adhering to the spark plug. You can go for a ride, get the engine warm and ride as you normally would...and you will get a genral idea if you engine is running rich or lean. But if you let it idle too long then the only plug reading information you will get is what happens at idle. Here is a link for how to jet a CV carb: http://www.zrxoa.org/webpages/techinfo/carb/carbtuning.html Here is a link for reading spark plugs. The second paragraph explains how to properly get a plug reading.....then what to look for: http://www.jetsrus.com/FAQs/FAQ_spark_plugs.htm |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/09/13 at 13:05:55 7D464B5C4D415A5C474F425D2E0 wrote:
Awesome, Thank you Dave:) |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/20/13 at 10:52:09 Ok, here's a short update on how things are goin'... I cleaned the tank and made one of those treatment on the inside of the tank, cleaned in the meantime the carb, changed the bowl gasket that was broken,put a filter between the petcock and the carb, and after a week (the time to allow the epoxy inside the tank to harden properly as the manufacturer specify) and put all back together and voilà, the bike runned fine for a couple of days... Awesome if it wasn't for today, that after a short trip to a friend of mine home that son of a gun won't start... Now i've disassembled it again, drained the tank to check the treatment, and i will check the spark plug, because from the symptoms seemed that there were no spark or at least not enough to ignite the gas in the cylinder. BTW those two days were beautiful, the bike seemed running fine apart for a tickling in the right side of the engine, so i thought to check the chain tensioner (the bike tachometer reads 12.765Km, about 7930ml. if they are real...) I will keep you posted. Have a good weekend Everybody. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/24/13 at 13:54:22 4457130 wrote:
I got myself an NGK DPR7EA-9, as i have almost eliminated all the possible reason why the spark plug becomes so covered in carbon... thanks for the advice, i will keep you posted. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by WD on 04/24/13 at 22:00:43 Mine has run a 5 for about the last 6 years. A lot of commuting from the mountains down to sea level in the city for work when I lived on the west coast. Anything colder would foul out in a month or less. 3 hours to go 36 miles wasn't unusual. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/26/13 at 03:54:32 0310540 wrote:
well, i will try, as you suggested me, going up one step at the time with this one and see how it works... but i don't understand why this engines needs warmer spark plugs, is it age maybe? |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by apache snow on 04/26/13 at 05:58:41 I wouldn't run a plug that was too hot for the engine. If your plug is fouling, you have a way too rich carb or blow by from worn rings. Fixing them would be the proper solution. http://www.xtrememotorworks.com/Spark%20Plugs.htm The worst result of a too-hot plug that fails-to destroy itself, is when it destroys the engine instead; this is called pre-ignition. If the tip of the plug becomes hot enough to ignite the fresh mixture being drawn into the cylinder, then the incoming mixture will start to burn without waiting for the spark to happen. Ignition due to any hot spot in the cylinder begins before the proper time for ignition, so it is called pre-ignition. Anything in the combustion chamber which gets hot enough can cause pre-ignition, but typically the end of the spark plug is the cause. When the mixture is firing sooner than it should, that's like advancing the spark too much, and no matter what causes it, early ignition makes engines heat up, causing pre-ignition. Eventually, something melts, which comes under the heading of a bad thing. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by WD on 04/26/13 at 07:33:43 I haven't run mine for 2 years, will be going back to the stock plug and only plus 1 jet sizes since I'm back where the bike ran its best. Not many elevation changes to deal with here, no mountains, no sea level riding (coast is 400 miles away). Pretty steady 400-450 feet above sea level, no more sea level to 4000'+ above in the span of a couple hours... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/26/13 at 15:59:08 A friend suggested that maybe could be the muffler obstructed by residue since probably it has never been cleaned... is it realistic? He suggested to run for a while without the muffler or with one less restricted and see what happens in the span of about 50 miles that is the average that i had between needing to pull the spark plug and clean it. I live along the west coast, litterally few hundred yards from the beach, and usually not climbing big mountians... so better to go back to the old spark plug and see what other thing might goin' on? In this case i guess i'm gonna take it to a mechanic, goin' around cylinder, piston and all that stuff makes me uncomfortable doin' it by myself with no experience in doing so... Do i have to stop running it or can i use it anyway? Sorry for all this questions, but apache snow kinda scared me a bit... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Coaxial on 04/26/13 at 16:02:00 0E35382F3E32292F343C312E5D0 wrote:
WD. I just did a seach.....Seafoam is not available outside the US.[/quote] Sir, it is available in America's Hat. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/26/13 at 16:14:47 49656B72636B660A0 wrote:
WD. I just did a seach.....Seafoam is not available outside the US.[/quote] Sir, it is available in America's Hat.[/quote] Well thanks, but i've already restored the interior of the tank... i used an italian product made for antique cars and bikes and it seems that fuel related problems have been solved. Thanks a lot anyway, i will remember that, you never know... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by 87 savage on 04/26/13 at 19:10:04 303C2529322A382F2E5D0 wrote:
Hi Max, when you say after 50 miles you have to clean the plug, is it because the plug is sooted up..black? That would mean you are way rich. If as you say your main is 130 and your pilot 47.5, you should not be rich at all, lean if anything. I've read this post twice and I don't see anything about the float level mentioned. Have you set the float level? As messed up as those floats are, if they don't float properly and keep the proper fuel level in the float bowl that could cause you to be way rich. If the float level measures right: (carb off the bike, float bowl removed, carb upside down. Measure from the carb body where the bowl gasket sets, to the bottom of the float bowl. Should be approx 27-28mm.) If that is correct drop it a couple mm to 30-31 and see if it runs any better. I just wouldn't trust that float. :-? |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/27/13 at 00:35:48 616C6265727431373938000 wrote:
Hi Max, when you say after 50 miles you have to clean the plug, is it because the plug is sooted up..black? That would mean you are way rich. If as you say your main is 130 and your pilot 47.5, you should not be rich at all, lean if anything. I've read this post twice and I don't see anything about the float level mentioned. Have you set the float level? As messed up as those floats are, if they don't float properly and keep the proper fuel level in the float bowl that could cause you to be way rich. If the float level measures right: (carb off the bike, float bowl removed, carb upside down. Measure from the carb body where the bowl gasket sets, to the bottom of the float bowl. Should be approx 27-28mm.) If that is correct drop it a couple mm to 30-31 and see if it runs any better. I just wouldn't trust that float. :-?[/quote] That's right, the plug is sooted black... i never considered that possibility, it's a great advice, and i will check promptly... i will see how to regulate the float level on the service manual and report as soon as i have done it. Thanks a lot for all the inputs guys, by myself i would be lost... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by 87 savage on 04/27/13 at 07:12:33 363A232F342C3E29285B0 wrote:
Hi Max, when you say after 50 miles you have to clean the plug, is it because the plug is sooted up..black? That would mean you are way rich. If as you say your main is 130 and your pilot 47.5, you should not be rich at all, lean if anything. I've read this post twice and I don't see anything about the float level mentioned. Have you set the float level? As messed up as those floats are, if they don't float properly and keep the proper fuel level in the float bowl that could cause you to be way rich. If the float level measures right: (carb off the bike, float bowl removed, carb upside down. Measure from the carb body where the bowl gasket sets, to the bottom of the float bowl. Should be approx 27-28mm.) If that is correct drop it a couple mm to 30-31 and see if it runs any better. I just wouldn't trust that float. :-?[/quote] That's right, the plug is sooted black... i never considered that possibility, it's a great advice, and i will check promptly... i will see how to regulate the float level on the service manual and report as soon as i have done it. Thanks a lot for all the inputs guys, by myself i would be lost...[/quote] Hey Max, quick note, float measurement instructions should have read: (carb off the bike, float bowl removed, carb upside down. Measure from the carb body where the bowl gasket sets, to the bottom of the FLOAT. My bad, sorry ::) |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by verslagen1 on 04/27/13 at 08:05:02 In this case, a by-the-book measurement aint gonna do. take a clear length of tubing, connect it to the drain and run it up along the carb. and open the drain, petcock to prime, level should come up to the bowl gasket with the bike vertical. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by WD on 04/27/13 at 08:37:22 262A333F243C2E39384B0 wrote:
A 7 spark plug won't harm anything. When you get down around 4 and 5, you'll start having issues. As for a plugged up muffler, I think he confused it with a "cataclysmic perverter" (catalytic converter), which our bikes don't have (yet). Is the black gunk "fluffy" or sticky? Fluffy is a bit rich on the fuel, sticky is way too rich or it is trying to burn oil as well as gas. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/27/13 at 08:41:55 424F4146515712141A1B230 wrote:
Hi Max, when you say after 50 miles you have to clean the plug, is it because the plug is sooted up..black? That would mean you are way rich. If as you say your main is 130 and your pilot 47.5, you should not be rich at all, lean if anything. I've read this post twice and I don't see anything about the float level mentioned. Have you set the float level? As messed up as those floats are, if they don't float properly and keep the proper fuel level in the float bowl that could cause you to be way rich. If the float level measures right: (carb off the bike, float bowl removed, carb upside down. Measure from the carb body where the bowl gasket sets, to the bottom of the float bowl. Should be approx 27-28mm.) If that is correct drop it a couple mm to 30-31 and see if it runs any better. I just wouldn't trust that float. :-?[/quote] That's right, the plug is sooted black... i never considered that possibility, it's a great advice, and i will check promptly... i will see how to regulate the float level on the service manual and report as soon as i have done it. Thanks a lot for all the inputs guys, by myself i would be lost...[/quote] Hey Max, quick note, float measurement instructions should have read: (carb off the bike, float bowl removed, carb upside down. Measure from the carb body where the bowl gasket sets, to the bottom of the FLOAT. My bad, sorry ::) [/quote] No biggie, i guessed what you meant so here's some picture of what i came up with... add 2mm to compensate the dept of the border: http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa448/maxtowers/20130427_164913_zps9819fe35.jpg and this is how it is fitted in the carb: http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa448/maxtowers/20130427_165000_zps398637c9.jpg Now i know that this is kind of approximative, but if i flip the float? like this: http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa448/maxtowers/20130427_165117_zps434de078.jpg now it measures about 40 mm... i know it's a bit too much, but is it conceivable? http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa448/maxtowers/20130427_165157_zps0180cd63.jpg "verslagen1 wrote: In this case, a by-the-book measurement aint gonna do. take a clear length of tubing, connect it to the drain and run it up along the carb. and open the drain, petcock to prime, level should come up to the bowl gasket with the bike vertical." The only problem is that i have a normal bolt as a drain pug, so i don't know how to connect the tube to the bowl... and anyway anyone knows if and how to set the float level? do i have to bend the floats? I noticed that the bike always start without the need of the choke... is it normal? Oh and one last particular.... when i kill the engine after a few seconds (sometimes even ten) the bike seems to cough from the exhaust... not too loud, just like a cough... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by 87 savage on 04/27/13 at 15:29:06 405344455A5751535807360 wrote:
I have to agree Verslagen, that float is in crazy bad shape! How would he hook up some tubing to the drain? |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by 87 savage on 04/27/13 at 15:34:45 Max, I wouldn't run the float upside down. I don't think the float bowl would even fit with the float upsidedown and it would be way too low. If you can't figure a way to try what Verslagen suggested, drop the float a few mm and try running it. To adjust the float, you bend the tang on the float that the needle attaches to. Starting without the choke sounds rich with your stock jets. A little pop in the exhaust when you shut it off is fairly normal for these savages. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/28/13 at 01:34:07 4B581C0 wrote:
A 7 spark plug won't harm anything. When you get down around 4 and 5, you'll start having issues. As for a plugged up muffler, I think he confused it with a "cataclysmic perverter" (catalytic converter), which our bikes don't have (yet). Is the black gunk "fluffy" or sticky? Fluffy is a bit rich on the fuel, sticky is way too rich or it is trying to burn oil as well as gas. [/quote] Well the gunk it's more on the fluffy side... few strokes with a metallic brush and the spark plug it's as good as new... About the oil, when i changed oil and filter i sticked to the quantity ordered by Suzuki, but when i check the oil level with the bike on the central wood stand (copied by Serowbot ;D), it is a bit over the full line... not much, just a tad, but is it harming in any way? |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by WD on 04/28/13 at 01:41:14 It might weep a bit if you have any suspect gaskets, otherwise, don't lose any sleep over it. A touch over is basically harmless. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/28/13 at 01:44:43 69646A6D7A7C393F3130080 wrote:
Thanks 87 savage, i will follow your directions on how to regulate the floats... i didn't think that was just a matter of bending a tang, i thought that there was a hidden screw or something that i didn't noticed... i would love to follow Verslagen method, seems really accurate... but untill i find a way to fit a tube to the bowl i will try bending the tang on the float and see what happens. I will keep you posted. Thanks to all you guys, you've been great. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/28/13 at 06:07:27 After the mod to the float, the bike don't start, and there is gas in the air intake that leaks down from the two drain tubes at the base of the air filter box... Well, outside it's raining... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by 87 savage on 04/28/13 at 08:20:15 3A362F233820322524570 wrote:
Sounds like the needle valve is not seating to stop the flow of gas. The float bowl overfills and the gas runs into the air cleaner box. The fuel can also run into the crankcase, bad! Find a way to stop the fuel. Make sure your petcock is not on prime. Pull the gas feed line of your carb and plug it to stop fuel if necessary. When you made your adjustment to the float, what was your measurement? Perhaps the needle assembly is half the problem? Sounds like the carb will have to come back out or at the very least drain and drop the float bowl. Take a good look at the rubber part of the needle assembly and see if it has a ring worn into it. If it does you'll have to replace it before going further. :( |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by verslagen1 on 04/28/13 at 08:38:17 Got an idea, and you can do this easier with the carb off the bike. If you take the carb off the bike, I found it will sit in a coffee can just right. So find a can that all four ears of the bowl sit well w/out tipping. take the gasket off the bowl and replace the bowl back on the carb. now fill the carb with gas till it stops. If it's overflowing the bowl, the floats too high, adjust and repeat. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/28/13 at 09:20:37 2D202E293E387D7B75744C0 wrote:
Sounds like the needle valve is not seating to stop the flow of gas. The float bowl overfills and the gas runs into the air cleaner box. The fuel can also run into the crankcase, bad! Find a way to stop the fuel. Make sure your petcock is not on prime. Pull the gas feed line of your carb and plug it to stop fuel if necessary. When you made your adjustment to the float, what was your measurement? Perhaps the needle assembly is half the problem? Sounds like the carb will have to come back out or at the very least drain and drop the float bowl. Take a good look at the rubber part of the needle assembly and see if it has a ring worn into it. If it does you'll have to replace it before going further. :([/quote] The needle assembly it's brand new, was in the kit that i got from Ebay with the new bowl gasket to replace the old one that was broken... anyway i take the carb off and see if there's anything wrong with my re-assembly... i must have done something wrong when i have put back toghether all the part... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/28/13 at 09:24:57 263522233C3137353E61500 wrote:
i will sure try this one since i have to take the carb back off the bike... Again, thanks guys for your patience and your help, i really appreciate :) |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by WD on 04/28/13 at 09:25:13 Fill a mixing bowl with water. Take out your carb float. See if it actually floats or if it sinks. With the damage on that one lobe, it could very well have a micro hole and has filled the one side with fuel. Result? Overflow, because the float no longer seats the needle. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by 87 savage on 04/28/13 at 09:35:06 455641405F5254565D02330 wrote:
Verslagen, this is good stuff! So I take it from your tip to Max that when the float is set correctly, the fuel level in the upright carb should be just below the top of the bowl? :-? |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by verslagen1 on 04/28/13 at 09:45:06 222F2126313772747A7B430 wrote:
again, yes. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by 87 savage on 04/28/13 at 13:01:36 6D7E6968777A7C7E752A1B0 wrote:
That's one of the things I love about this forum' I'm always learning :) |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/28/13 at 13:12:53 WD wrote: "Fill a mixing bowl with water. Take out your carb float. See if it actually floats or if it sinks. With the damage on that one lobe, it could very well have a micro hole and has filled the one side with fuel. Result? Overflow, because the float no longer seats the needle." I did this test as soon as i took off the carb from the bike the first time... it was floating and there was no bubbles after sunk it in the bowl for a few minutes... verslagen1 wrote: "Got an idea, and you can do this easier with the carb off the bike. If you take the carb off the bike, I found it will sit in a coffee can just right. So find a can that all four ears of the bowl sit well w/out tipping. take the gasket off the bowl and replace the bowl back on the carb. now fill the carb with gas till it stops. If it's overflowing the bowl, the floats too high, adjust and repeat." Ok, i did it, and i checked all what i've done on the carb since the problem came out... So i checked the housing of the needle valve that i changed with one that was included in a kit that i purchased for the bowl gasket, and it is of the right diameter... so i switched to the older but still good needle and checked the height of the floats, straightened the little tang that i have bended before and did some tests... after a few try, seems that i find the right spot, so i just need some sunshine and i can try the bike properly. i made a quick run around my little town tonight and all seemed fine, had to adjust the idle, and the riding has been promising. I will definitely keep you posted in the next few days. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by 87 savage on 04/28/13 at 13:35:49 2428313D263E2C3B3A490 wrote:
Nice! Glad to hear it. Maybe your troubles are over? |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by verslagen1 on 04/28/13 at 13:40:39 Great, I think I'll write this one up and into the tech section. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/28/13 at 16:27:11 2C212F283F397C7A74754D0 wrote:
Nice! Glad to hear it. Maybe your troubles are over?[/quote] I hope so... i would love to concentrate my efforts at the front suspension, but i want to fix the engine before... there's no point in fixing and lowering the front fork if the bike don't run, right? |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/29/13 at 12:47:47 58555B5C4B4D080E0001390 wrote:
Sounds like the needle valve is not seating to stop the flow of gas. The float bowl overfills and the gas runs into the air cleaner box. The fuel can also run into the crankcase, bad! Find a way to stop the fuel. Make sure your petcock is not on prime. Pull the gas feed line of your carb and plug it to stop fuel if necessary. When you made your adjustment to the float, what was your measurement? Perhaps the needle assembly is half the problem? Sounds like the carb will have to come back out or at the very least drain and drop the float bowl. Take a good look at the rubber part of the needle assembly and see if it has a ring worn into it. If it does you'll have to replace it before going further. :([/quote] Just a quick question, you mentioned gas in the crankcase; now, i have to say that in these few km that i put on the bike since last night the bike seems run way better... i just here some noises from the engine that before weren't there... So i growned some worries about what you mentioned...how do i see if there's any? i have to empty the engine oil in a pan and see if there's any gas? And change oil and filter... good for me that i bought two of them when i got the supplies for the oil change... Do i have to do it asap? Thanks again for any hints and suggestions... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by verslagen1 on 04/29/13 at 13:16:52 373B222E352D3F28295A0 wrote:
All gas engines have some gas in the crankcase. More than 10% is an issue. Always give the oil level window a glance after a long period between runs (overnight) That's another reason on the kickstand, bottom of the window method works, all you need is a bit of light and to stoop a bit. Clear window ok, black window bad. Some say take the cork out and give the case a wiff. Level method is more definite. As far as the filter goes... a little gas in the oil won't hurt the filter. The only advantage changing the filter is additional gas contaminated oil is removed. So open it up, get the oil outta there, and put it back in. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Steve H on 04/29/13 at 13:25:04 Look at the oil level in the sight glass. If it's higher than it was when you finished changing the oil, it probably did get gas in the oil. Take the oil cap off and see if you can smell gas in the oil fill. These are two easy ways that come to mind. If so, you got gas in there. And, like you said, you could always drain it and see. I hope you got your carb problem solved. They can be really annoying sometimes. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/29/13 at 15:19:35 2C3F2829363B3D3F346B5A0 wrote:
All gas engines have some gas in the crankcase. More than 10% is an issue. Always give the oil level window a glance after a long period between runs (overnight) That's another reason on the kickstand, bottom of the window method works, all you need is a bit of light and to stoop a bit. Clear window ok, black window bad. Some say take the cork out and give the case a wiff. Level method is more definite. As far as the filter goes... a little gas in the oil won't hurt the filter. The only advantage changing the filter is additional gas contaminated oil is removed. So open it up, get the oil outta there, and put it back in.[/quote] So, i've checked the window with the bike on the side stand and it's pretty clear... i've also smelled the oil from the filling plug as suggested from Steve H and it doesn't stink of gas, so i think i' m in the clear... but just for sake tomorrow i will drain, change the filter and fill it up again, maybe with new oil... And just for the record, i' ve been back to the original spark plug, the NGK DPR8E-A, but from what i read from the owners manual the NGK DPR7E-A is a substitute in case quote "if standard plug's insulator is dark, replace with this plug". Even with the DPR7E-A fouling was accumulating on the insulator and on the arch (before all this float "job") I put back the original spark plug so i can narrow down cause and effects of the various works done to the carb. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by 87 savage on 04/29/13 at 15:24:03 Ditto what Verslagen and Steve said. How long did it sit and leak from the airbox. Couple quarts of oil is cheap insurance. Besides, you know it's gonna bug you till you change it. :) |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 04/30/13 at 16:48:50 I've drained the engine and changed oil and filter... But, with great disappointment, this evening i was coming back home from a day of work, and the engine started to chuckle again... backfiring a lot more then when i put the bike back toghether on sunday; as a matter of fact both sunday night and yesterday, the backfiring was disappeared... I'm gonna try now with the warmer spark plug and see if it helps... if not i've decided to take it to a well trusted carb specialist |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/01/13 at 08:40:57 How long is it running before it starts acting up? |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 05/01/13 at 16:22:16 293630372A2D1C2C1C24363A71430 wrote:
Well, it usually run fine for let's say 30 miles, usually they are short trips, small commuting to work, but i've tried also longer stretch, and in this case seems that it clog up a little slower, but eventually it starts to backfire and running clumsy, wanting to die... so i clean up the park plug and it runs fine again untill starts all over... Changing the muffler to a less restricted one might help? i've noticed that changing muffler needs rejecting to bigger bore, so if my jets are too rich, it might help the breathing of the engine... But if i also have to go to cone air filter i just change jets... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/01/13 at 19:21:04 Next time it starts to act up, how about finding a safe place & pull over. Take tools & catch container. Drain the bowl. BE Careful, hot engine, if you spill anything, make sure its all gone before you fire it up. Dont need a fire,,, See whats in that bowl. Let the bowl refill & give it another run down the road, any additional symptoms? |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 05/02/13 at 03:53:19 2C3335322F2819291921333F74460 wrote:
No, there aren't any other symptoms, or at least that i can recognize... What i have to look for when i drain the bowl? too much gas in there or something that doesn't belong, like dirt? |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Dave on 05/02/13 at 04:36:19 Everytime I see that photo of your float......I can't help but think that you will never get this engine to run correctly with a collapsed float. It may not be leaking - but it does not have the volume it had before it collapsed and I can't see how you can have a proper fuel level. How hard/expensive is gettng a new float for you where you live? I sure think is would be a good investment. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by LANCER on 05/02/13 at 04:46:37 0D363B2C3D312A2C373F322D5E0 wrote:
Yep Yep |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by DavidOfMA on 05/02/13 at 05:48:55 764D4057464A51574C444956250 wrote:
Periodically, carburetors for this bike show up on eBay for not much money. Might be worth checking there if you can't find a float locally or it costs more than a used carburetor. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Dave on 05/02/13 at 06:01:39 57515C5C58515A5D575641330 wrote:
Periodically, carburetors for this bike show up on eBay for not much money. Might be worth checking there if you can't find a float locally or it costs more than a used carburetor.[/quote] DavidofMA.....You do realize the owner (maxtowers)is in Italy? The eBay listings you are seeing may not apply to his location. When WAMBR, PaulMarshall, maxtowers and a few others post....we have to adapt the response to fit their areas. Those salvage yards we all can access on eBay here in the US aren't of any use to the people outside the US. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 05/02/13 at 15:55:10 556E6374656972746F676A75060 wrote:
Periodically, carburetors for this bike show up on eBay for not much money. Might be worth checking there if you can't find a float locally or it costs more than a used carburetor.[/quote] DavidofMA.....You do realize the owner (maxtowers)is in Italy? The eBay listings you are seeing may not apply to his location. When WAMBR, PaulMarshall, maxtowers and a few others post....we have to adapt the response to fit their areas. Those salvage yards we all can access on eBay here in the US aren't of any use to the people outside the US. [/quote] And the fun part of it it's that even if i want to order a brand new one the stealer will raise a lot of "but, if, i don't know, etc..." I mean how hard could for mikuni or some distributor having in some warehouse a few parts for the european market? (just a small rant) Anyway, i still have hope to find something in Germany or the UK... i' m scanning Ebay constantly.... i feel you Dave, and i share the same opinion about those floats... i will keep looking for them, and even a for a complete carb if necessary... I like this bike too much to give up on her. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by WD on 05/02/13 at 20:12:40 Forget the U.K., the bike isn't anymore popular there than it is in the USA. Germany, Finland, Holland, Czech Republic and Lithuania would be good bets. The most highly modified Savages in the world come out of Germany, with Finland a close second. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by DavidOfMA on 05/02/13 at 21:03:03 Quote:
Dave, I do pay attention to where people are posting from. I understand that he is in Italy, and assume that individual owners in Italy or neighboring countries might sell their bike parts on eBay just like they do here. I wasn't thinking of salvage yards. I bought a spare carb from an individual on eBay. Also, most individual eBay sellers I've bought from will ship anywhere. I've bought stuff on eBay that shipped from China, Australia, England, and the Ukraine, and I live in the U.S. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Serowbot on 05/02/13 at 23:01:14 Only two things I can think of,.. that would would cause this... ... a slowed flow from the petcock... that starves out the engine, given time... ... a slow leak in a float, just above the full fuel level,... that only begins to take on fuel, as the float level drops low enough to expose the leak...(but has time to evaporate out, and raise the float above the leak, after sitting)...(that's a stretch)... I'd pull the petcock first, and look for some clogging on the pick-up tubes... (just 'cause it's easier to check).... With 102 posts.. either we suck... or you have a very unusual problem... ... but we're stubborn... don't give up... At this point,.. we absolutely must find out what's going on... We're with you in spirit... :-?... PS... if it's neither of those...(... and I don't have time to read back over all 102 previous posts)... I'd start looking for an electrical, overheating component... JMHO... Best of luck... ;)... |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Dave on 05/03/13 at 06:57:13 44424F4F4B42494E444552200 wrote:
Sorry if I mispoke....typed. I suppose on something as small as a float or a carb is it possible to ship that far. I know that someone posted a few months ago that the parts supply in his country from wrecked or salvaged bikes was just not available....they did not have the same kind of internet salvage yards that we have here in the US. |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 05/03/13 at 16:46:25 7A6C7B667E6B667D090 wrote:
Well, about the crack in the float i didn't find any visible one, and when i tested the float for leaks at the beginning of this "Odissey" i drawned the float in a glass of water for almost an hour meanwhile i was doing other things at the bike and it seemed just fine, no bubbles, no water spilling out the float when shaking... i' more inclined in the second option, as i have put a fuel filter between the petcock and the carb... but listening to many this problem it's related more to an abundance of fuel and not lack of it... Anyway, it seems to run a little bit better and moreover it's about 55 miles since the last spark plug cleaning and it seems holding... finger crossed. I will put few more miles to it as soon as i resolve a fresh new problem with the rear direction lights, but this is another story... As for the forum, i love this forum and i really appreciate the support and the will to help of all of you guys, this forum doesn't suck at all, IT ROCKS! Probably it's just a particularly difficult case, with a bike almost twenty years old and six previous owners with lack of skills probably even worst than mine, and a current owner (me) that it's not a really experienced wrench... Anyway i will keep an update to the let you all know if the story has an happy ending (gosh i love happy ending) |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 05/10/13 at 14:16:41 Quik update, finally i found a competent dealer who has been able to order me a new float... next week will be here, and meanwhile i was there i ordered also the header gasket, there's none on the bike... Hope to be able to narrow down the possible causes... we'll see. Have a good weekend everybody :) |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by maxtowers on 05/26/13 at 16:12:40 Finally a positive end (i hope). I installed the brand spanking new float (sooo beautiful and shiny) http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa448/maxtowers/20130514_184354_zps66da80b9.jpg put about 150 miles on the bike between short and medium trips and with the exception of some backfire at mid range the bike run fine, it needs the choke to start when it's cold (as it should do) and finally seems reliable, at the point that i even took the highway and rode it for about 30 miles... Also, in those rain days, i lowered the front fork and added some knobby tire on the front... Again, i just want to express my true appreciation to all of You Guys who had the patience and courtesy to help me out with this trouble... without You i would have been lost and at the mercy of some stealer that would have drain my already poor finances. I just hope that this post will help someone else with the same or similar problem. A couple of pics just to show how happy my baby is:) http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa448/maxtowers/IMG_20130523_160202_zpsc07e290f.jpg http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa448/maxtowers/IMG_20130523_094733_zps47802798.jpg |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by 87 savage on 05/26/13 at 18:16:28 darn I just love happy endings! :) |
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Title: Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Post by Dave on 07/30/14 at 13:24:53 [split] [splithere] (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1406751698)[splithere_end] |
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