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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> oil /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1364504202 Message started by nateordie on 03/28/13 at 13:56:42 |
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Title: oil Post by nateordie on 03/28/13 at 13:56:42 I was reading up on the oil recommendations for the savage and I saw that there was a couple mobile one synthetics listed. My question is: Is it special "motorcycle oil" or is it just the normal mobil one car oil? And do any of those oils need the special ZDDP additive or are those synthetics good by themselves? I have an 04 savage with 19,000 on the clock and I ride on the freeway often (only at 70mph) thanks. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by rfw2003 on 03/28/13 at 14:58:29 Never use automotive oil in your savage, most of them are not compatible with a wet clutch and cause massive clutch slippage issues. The lowest cost oil that is easy to get pretty much everywhere in the U.S. and meets all the requirement without having to add any additives is Rotella T 15w40. Yes it's a heavy duty engine oil that is normally used in diesel engines but it also works very well in our Savage engines, and meets all the requirements. If you want a full syn that is all easy to get and low cost the Rotella T6 5w40 in the blue bottle is the way to go. R.F. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by raydawg on 03/28/13 at 15:40:16 I ain't say'n nut'n......... :-* |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Routy on 03/28/13 at 15:42:37 42494C4C1617200 wrote:
Bill, whats goin on ? Are you ok ? You must be tired of everyone pickin on you ! ;D |
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Title: Re: oil Post by nateordie on 03/28/13 at 16:29:35 646F6A6A3031060 wrote:
that's what I thought. a red flag went up for me ha. I've been using a semi synthetic blend but I'm gonna make a switch to the rotell or mobil one. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/28/13 at 16:42:41 How many million years you plannin on ridin it? Rotella T 15/40 is a great oil. It hasnt had the ZDDP taken out, cuz its advertised as a diesel oil & they dont have cataclysmic perverters,. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by SALB on 03/28/13 at 16:49:16 46595F5845427343734B59551E2C0 wrote:
Sorry, diesels have had cats since 1993, and now urea injection. :-? |
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Title: Re: oil Post by rfw2003 on 03/28/13 at 17:02:08 I've got a 98 freightliner sitting in my driveway, with a 500hp 12.7L detroit diesel in it, it didn't come with a catalytic converter. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by WD on 03/28/13 at 17:05:02 Diesel cats are different compounds inside than gasoline cats. The last one we put on a Sterling version of the old Ford L8000 was $1100. The recycle yard paid almost $400 for the scrap one (probably why so many get stolen). We used to run a semi-syn in Lisa's 800 Intruder, good old Castrol Syntech. Then they changed the formula... it isn't bike safe. If you are buying the so called bike specific from Spectro or Castrol, it's just car oil. I've talked to their reps way too many times to run either in a wet clutch air cooled. And be leery of Bill, he seems to like cherry Kool-aid colored repackaged snowmobile oil for some odd reason. :-? |
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Title: Re: oil Post by old_rider on 03/28/13 at 17:05:02 Ok I got one for ya.....I got a 2002 LS650 Savage and don't know what oil is in it. The petcock went bonkers and filled up the airbox with gas, got new petcock and will install. Should I change the oil because of the petcock failure? I'm planning on doing it anyway.....but here is the real question.... I bought regular dino motorcycle oil to put in it, I don't know if there is synthetic in it or not, will it hurt if synth is in it and I replace it with dino oil???? |
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Title: Re: oil Post by rfw2003 on 03/28/13 at 17:46:07 5E5550500A0B3C0 wrote:
I'll tell ya something Bill, I'm not gonna take the bait to get into yet another oil war with you. Now if you can come up with a way to increase the oil sump capacity on the savage to make it actually worth using a premium brand syn oil to it's full potential, I will endorse the use of $12 or more per quart oil in it. Until then why don't ya just stay out of the rubber side down like your supposed to do, weren't you banned from this area? R.F. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by oldNslow on 03/28/13 at 17:58:57 old_rider wrote: Quote:
I don't want to start any trouble, so I'm just gonna answer the question and run. No, it won't hurt a thing. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by rfw2003 on 03/28/13 at 18:06:11 300E0F03110D0C620 wrote:
Normally the change from syn to dino is no issue, it's the change from a long time use of dino to syn that may cause some leaks at the seals. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Serowbot on 03/28/13 at 18:33:05 Oil!!!!.... :o :o :o... I'm all better now... :-?... |
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Title: Re: oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/28/13 at 18:41:07 If youve had a thingy failure, change oil.. it costs almost nothing,, |
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Title: Re: oil Post by ZAR on 03/28/13 at 19:38:28 Shell RotellaT. It's what I use in both my bikes,my pre 1970 tractors and anything else with "pre-historic" flat tappet technology. It's kept my old junk alive this long....ain't changing now! |
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Title: Re: oil Post by nateordie on 03/28/13 at 23:40:02 is the rotella t6 oil a motorcycle specific oil? I read some about it online and I'm only finding that it's for diesel vehicles. Is there a motorcycle specific type for the rotella oil or no? |
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Title: Re: oil Post by verslagen1 on 03/28/13 at 23:51:17 Have you read our owners manual? Then take a look at the back of rotella T or T6. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by rfw2003 on 03/28/13 at 23:53:24 2E2134252F32242925400 wrote:
It does have the JASO MA rating printed right on the bottle, so yes it is great and o.k. for use in motorcycles with wet clutch systems. R.F. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Gyrobob on 03/29/13 at 04:55:57 Except for the labeling, Rotella is exactly the oil needed for aircooled motors with unit transmissions and wet clutches. Nothing is gained by using "motorcycle oil" instead of Rotella (dino or synth) in a Savage. Your wallet will weigh a little less, though, so your 0-60 time will improve by 28 nanoseconds. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by nateordie on 03/29/13 at 10:04:29 sounds good thanks for all your help! |
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Title: Re: oil Post by houstonbofh on 03/29/13 at 22:32:26 JASO-MA is "Real motorcycle oil." That is the entire point of the spec. So is JSAO-MA2, but it has less zzdp. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Greg on 03/30/13 at 05:52:47 4A4D5751564D4C404D444A220 wrote:
I keep reading this about MA2. My Magic Google Fingers must be broken because I can't find a source. I even emailed the company I purchase my oil from to ask and have yet received a response. Can you (or anyone) point me in the right direction? |
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Title: Re: oil Post by bill67 on 03/30/13 at 06:36:40 You want a JASO-MA 4T oil |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Oldfeller on 03/30/13 at 06:51:24 Explain the rating to him, Bill. What does the 4T stand for? |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Greg on 03/30/13 at 07:02:27 4T = 4 stroke |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Greg on 03/30/13 at 07:05:12 I just spent another hour and a half with Google trying to find the difference between JASO MA and MA2. I cannot find an authoritative reference anywhere. From what I am gathering, if the oil meets both MA1 and MA2, the manufacturer can just put MA on the bottle. So we wouldn't know if it is MA2 or not. I also see where there is less catalytic converter harming stuff in MA2 but can find no reference to ZDDP anywhere. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Oldfeller on 03/30/13 at 07:10:02 While we wait for Bill, here is the current JASO ratings listing system, fresh of a few months ago. http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/JASO_MA_JASO_MB.php Note please that they have changed their nomenclature again, they have a JASO MA, JASO MA1, JASO MA2 and JASO MB in their nomenclature, with each classification carrying a separate meaning. (Bill's 4T is a Mobil 1 advertising gimmick that carries no real meaning) Note please, that none of the JASO MA group of standards have anything to do with ZDDP content -- they merely describe what the oil in question does when subjected to the JASO T 904:2006 clutch system friction test. Remember always that the Savage engine has unique requirements that no longer fit the JASO categorizations very well. We can no longer trust a JASO rating to tell us if an oil is good for the Savage or not, especially since they keep changing and multiplying their various standards. That is why we bother to keep a recommended oil listing in the Tech Section. Plus, JASO has plumb gotten a little weird ..... and we know some games will be played by some oil makers using this particular statement. If all three properties of a JASO MA oil fall within the limits specified as MA1 then the oil can be classified as a JASO MA1 oil. If all its properties fall within the limits of MA2 then it can be classified as a JASO MA2 oil. If some properties fall within the MA1 subcategory but others in MA2 then the product is simply a JASO MA product. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Greg on 03/30/13 at 07:28:23 I believe the MA ratings have nothing to do with ZDDP content. It has been mentioned on this site a few times that MA2 contains less and no one has ever disagreed so it must be true, right? Oldfeller states it as well: "JASO limits ZDDP to what, 1,000 PPM as a maximum number in MA2 (our old Savage requires 1,250 PPM as a minimum, going up to 1,850 PPM in some of the older oil products that were around when the bike came out." from http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1362678961/2#2 and this is adding to my confusion. Now adding to my confusion is the statement that 4T is a Mobil1 gimmick. It is mentioned on the site OF linked to: http://www.oilspecifications.org/jaso.php. Is that a Mobil1 site? I am confused by the statement made in our recommended oils post as well: "(we avoid JASO MA2 and JASO MB as they indicate oils that are NO GOOD for the Savage motorcycle)". Why are they no good? I get the MB spec being no good, but don't understand why the MA2 is no good. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by SALB on 03/30/13 at 19:49:29 2T = 2 stroke 4T = 4 stroke ;) |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Oldfeller on 03/30/13 at 20:05:46 When JASO came out it was paired with SL oils and the pair of specs carried good clutch function and 1,100 to 1,250 PPM of ZDDP on the bike oils being sold back at that point in time. So, back then JASO MA was a "desirable rating" to us. SN and MA2 (the original MA2) came out and and ZDDP dropped to 800 to no more than 1,000 PPM. And the rules started to get funny as they enforced MAXIMUM ZDDP levels but enforced no mininum specs at all -- so we stared seeing 800 PPM oils listed as "motorcycle oils". And, JASO then came out with all the other MA ratings and all their other funny rules, so we simply started listing the oils with enough ZDDP and good clutch function in the Tech Section. Greg, you can be just as confused about JASO as you want to be, nobody is going to stop you since you seem to like it. And JASO is certainly going to keep you busy for a while since they change it up each year. For everybody else, http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565 |
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Title: Re: oil Post by rl153 on 04/02/13 at 17:53:56 If I changed my oil in october,and the bike sat till march,do i have to change my oil now again? If so why? I run Rotella T6. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/02/13 at 18:09:13 Depends,, If ya had enough miles on that "new" oil to get some unburned stuff in it, it could have sat there & become a bit acidic..Or,, thats what Ive heard,, nows a good time for someone to say Yea, thats right or No,, thats just silly.,. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by rfw2003 on 04/02/13 at 18:51:16 it also depends on how and where it was stored. you could have alot of condensation build up inside the case meaning water in your oil. So it's a good bet to just go ahead and change it. R.F. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by thumperclone on 04/02/13 at 23:41:01 ahh yes the yearly oil war any north koreans here? :D AMSOIL nuff said |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Oldfeller on 04/03/13 at 00:47:22 Condensation in the oil. Some small amounts of water in the oil. It happens every time you take a short trip that doesn't warm the engine up completely. Water is a by product of combustion, you see it pouring out of truck exhausts and SUV exhausts every morning as the folks leave the neighborhood. It is why short oil change intervals for soccer moms were invented. But in the air cooled Savage engine a trip of 5-10 miles or more is enough to get the crankcase up to temperature, which is above the boiling point of water intentionally (around 250o) T6 really doesn't care about a little bit of condensation water, it will hold the microdroplets in suspension like they were dirt particles until the next time you get the engine up to running temperature, then the water vapor goes out the huff tube with the blow by gases. No, you don't need to change your oil every spring just because it is spring when you use T6. We got people saying you should put your bike up with clean oil in it and now we gots folks saying you should change the clean oil because it got musty over the winter? Nonsense. Crank your bike up and go for a longish ride and you will "fix" your musty oil jest fine by the time you get back. Theoretically, you should be able to run T6 for at least several years before the additives get depleted, although none of us actually do that, we all change it at least yearly. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by rl153 on 04/03/13 at 11:58:35 Thanks OF ,sounds like good advice. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/03/13 at 12:39:44 Yea, good to have some input from someone who has studied the stuff.. I would ask , regarding my answer, Ive heard that unburned hydrocarbons & soot & stuff gets into the oil, thru blowby, &, over time, causes the oil to become somewhat acidic. Ive heard it several times, different places,, but, repeatedly hearing something doesnt make it true. Soooo,, is there anything to that? |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Charon on 04/03/13 at 13:46:40 Normal combustion byproducts of burning gasoline in air result in carbon dioxide and water, along with assorted oxides of nitrogen (there are about five of them generically called NOx) and sulphur from impurities in gasoline. Carbon dioxide reacts with water to form carbonic acid, the stuff that makes carbonated drinks fizzy. Sulphur oxides (two of them) react with water to form sulphuric and sulphurous acids. NOx reacts with water to form nitrous and nitric acids. All these find their way into the crankcase through blowby, although most of them keep right on going out the breather. The carbonic acid goes away when the oil temperature gets high enough to evaporate the water away. Motor oils (not necessarily racing oils, since it is expected that racing oils will be changed after every race) have basic compounds added which neutralize the acids. The basic compounds are reported as TBN, Total Base Number, in analyses of oil. The TBN will drop as oil is used for longer, and more fuel is burned. Any acid not neutralized can cause corrosion of metal parts in the engine, and that is the reason for the advice to change oil before long-term storage. Personally, I believe that if the engine was run long enough to bring it up to normal operating temperature immediately before storage, and if the oil isn't already approaching a change interval, I'd just leave the old oil in there. I certainly see no reason to change the oil at the start of the season if I had already done so when I put the machine into storage. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/03/13 at 18:03:00 Wow,, OOookay,, so it Can get acidic, but running it long enough to cook out the H2O solves the problem, because its the H2O that all the crud reacts with to create the acidic situation.. Way cool.. I will save $$$ over the years having that info AND Ill save worry, which to me is better than whatever savings I may see,,Thanks, Again,, ETA This is one of the reasons I keep comin back to this crazy place.. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Oldfeller on 04/03/13 at 19:22:30 So, run it hard right before you put it up and run it hard again on your first spring rides and remember to change your T6 once a year to be on the chickenish safe side and you can quit worrying about your oil. Remember, that T6 oil was extensively tested to be good for 20,000 - 30,000 miles of HARD USE in a big road diesel, it isn't going to crap out on you in 3,000 - 5,000 miles of yearly use in our Savage no matter what you do to it. And trust me, I do worse to it than you do, by a factor of 10 at least every time I go to the mountains. :D |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Charon on 04/03/13 at 19:43:19 Just for fun - I used to drive a semi. It had a Detroit Diesel 12.7 liter turbocharged engine. Werner called for oil changes based neither on miles nor hours, but on fuel burned. As I recall (this was over ten years ago) the interval was something like 3200 gallons, about 20K miles. The engine held five gallons of oil, 20 quarts. Mine required a gallon to be added midway during the interval. So, 24 quarts of oil handled the soot and other contaminants from burning 3200 gallons, or each quart handled the results of burning just over 130 gallons of fuel. If the S40 gets 55 mpg (mine is a little better) and the oil is changed at 4000 miles, it will have burned about 73 gallons of gas. It holds two quarts of oil, so each quart handles the results of burning only about 37 gallons of fuel. Using that rather crude comparison, we change oil about three and half times as often as an over-the-road semi. Ain't it fun, playing with numbers? By the way, I have no idea what oil Werner supplied. They just gave us a couple of gallons in unmarked containers, and the engine took one gallon from "ADD" to "FULL." |
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Title: Re: oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/04/13 at 10:39:06 That comparison/analysis may not seem valuable to some, but it makes sense to me.,I know some women who simply wouldnt get that, |
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Title: Re: oil Post by 4carbcorvair on 04/04/13 at 20:34:49 He, he. Now I decide to search this. :p Just did an oil/filter on my 08 today with 3,000 miles on it. I put in a valvoline synthetic with an MA2 rating. Guessing I should put some ZDDP additive?? I have to say shifting is much, much smoother than the Dino oil I was using. Less clunky feel. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by photojoe on 04/09/13 at 15:28:26 Using Valvoline 4 stroke dino oil for around $3 per quart, or Suzuki dino, whatever is cheapest on the shelf. 87 Savage around 30K. Still Runs fine 8-) |
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Title: Re: oil Post by wheelsoffreedom76 on 04/13/13 at 14:12:16 I went in Oreilly's yesterday and their motorcycle oil is on sale. I got Lucas synthetic 20-50 for $9 a quart. That 60 series detroit in that werner truck should hold 11 gallons. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Oldfeller on 04/13/13 at 19:36:26 That's odd, that particular Lucas synthetic 20-50 oil isn't on the approved list for oils in Tech Section at all. I wonder why in the world that could be ???? Do you know what is in that Lucas synthetic 20-50 oil spec-wise by any chance? |
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Title: Re: oil Post by bill67 on 04/13/13 at 19:39:37 4C535E5E5748545D5D495E5E5F54560C0D3B0 wrote:
+1 A man that can think for himself. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by WD on 04/13/13 at 23:03:04 We ran Delo or whatever was cheap in the Macks I used to drive. Oil changed once a year, stop and go city flatbed use, and those were 1974-95 Thermodyne (filthy running) R685/686 day cabs. My 1991 378 Pete coffin box with a single stack Cummins 14L (525hp/1850 torque) got the oil changed every 10K miles, heavy haul export containers (rig licensed at 104,000 pounds gross combination weight) in the Cascade Mountain Range. My bike gets 15W40, changed when it quits shifting properly. No idea on the miles, hasn't had a speedometer in almost a decade. ;D |
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Title: Re: oil Post by apache snow on 04/14/13 at 13:46:26 White papers 2nd edition study of motorcycle oils, out of 17 brands, lucas 20w50 came in next to last. I do not use any lucas products but thats just me. http://www.dualies.com/downloads/files/Oil%20Test%20Results%20-%20g2156.pdf |
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Title: Re: oil Post by rfw2003 on 04/14/13 at 13:59:24 I could have sworn someone on here called Lucus and they said NOT TO USE their oils in motorcycles with wet clutches. I can't seem to find the post atm, but I do remember that in one of our oil discussions. R.F. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by bill67 on 04/14/13 at 14:16:30 4B5A4B49424F5944455D2A0 wrote:
I checked that I didn't see it coming in next to last. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by bill67 on 04/14/13 at 14:17:58 74607134363635060 wrote:
RFW who do you suspect that some one was. ::) ::) |
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Title: Re: oil Post by rfw2003 on 04/14/13 at 14:32:14 2C27222278794E0 wrote:
RFW who do you suspect that some one was. ::) ::)[/quote] You know I don't actually remember except that it wasn't OF, it was someone that worked at a parts store or had a friend that was a Lucas oil rep or something like that. R.F. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by apache snow on 04/14/13 at 14:35:34 2B2025257F7E490 wrote:
At the very end in the pdf in the rankings for 50 weight it is listed 16 out of 17. http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt292/dlstewart01/Scan0003_zps6e183628.jpg |
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Title: Re: oil Post by bill67 on 04/14/13 at 15:02:19 Look at the 20-50 |
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Title: Re: oil Post by bill67 on 04/14/13 at 15:05:03 687C6D282A2A291A0 wrote:
RFW who do you suspect that some one was. ::) ::)[/quote] You know I don't actually remember except that it wasn't OF, it was someone that worked at a parts store or had a friend that was a Lucas oil rep or something like that. R.F. [/quote] RFW do you really think Lucas makes a motorcycle oil not good for wet clutches. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by verslagen1 on 04/14/13 at 15:08:55 6A6164643E3F080 wrote:
RFW who do you suspect that some one was. ::) ::)[/quote] here's your quote... 3E2423262120363F530 wrote:
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Title: Re: oil Post by apache snow on 04/14/13 at 15:14:17 73787D7D2726110 wrote:
That IS 20w50 they tested and 20w50 we ARE looking at. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by rfw2003 on 04/14/13 at 15:26:26 7E7570702A2B1C0 wrote:
For those motorcycles that don't use a wet clutch system. I know they are few and far between on those, but they do exist like alot of the HD's are a dry clutch system. R.F. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by bill67 on 04/14/13 at 15:27:15 Ok I was wrong on that. But that is Amsoil reports |
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Title: Re: oil Post by apache snow on 04/14/13 at 15:35:10 3D36333369685F0 wrote:
That is true and I am not an Amsoil fan. They do make good oil but it is too expensive and I do not care for their MLM way of selling oil. And they are deceptive in their marketing. But their test is a good way to gage where others are compared to every one else. And the other brands do not contest their findings. And if you will look at the test closely, Lucas shered out of grade and failed the gear wear test. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Dave on 04/15/13 at 06:26:35 697D6C292B2B281B0 wrote:
It was not Lucas Oil that should not be used in wet clutches.....it was their ZDDP additive. I emailed Lucas when I was breaking in a new cam and they said their ZDDP additive should not be used as it has some frinction modifiers in it that are not compatible with a wet clutch. I have no idea if their oils have it as well. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Oldfeller on 04/15/13 at 07:10:36 Hey, cut Bill a break, Bill just very much wants me to be wrong for once. ;) Folks have brought up Lucas products before and got themselves educated by BobIsTheOilGuy reports on those same Lucas products. Here, chew on this BITOG thread a bit -- the cheese is nice and stringy on this one -- it spends 9 pages talking about what is actually in the Lucas Oil Stabilizer. And yes, I have said repeatedly "Do not use Lucas Oil Stabilizer -- it will mess your clutch up". There are 9 pages to this war and the conclusion is (oh, go read it). http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1976391&page=1 Here is what Lucas oil stabilizer adds to your oil. Not much other than a quart of very high viscosity (plasticizer type) clear oil brightstock. A super heavy weight straight oil grade, right out of the barrel, no additives to speak of other than what is in it accidentally. It adds nothing to your oil other than clingy stringy thickness (and in our bike that's BAD NEWS for your clutch). Since it brings nothing to the party, it actually acts to dilute your normal oil's add packages. Lucas Oil Stabilizer Virgin Oil Analysis (all items not listed were at 0.00 PPM) TBN - 0.1 Visc - 615.3 FP - 435 Calcium - 3 Magnesium - 1 Phosphorus - 4 Zinc - 2 So, how much money has Lucas made over the years telling people that this stuff is worth something, I dunno. In our bikes it would be worth certain CLUTCH DEATH, so that is all we need to know about it. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Oldfeller on 04/15/13 at 07:20:46 Now, if Wheels want to tell us exactly what Lucas 20w50 product Reilly auto parts sold him on super sale for $9 a quart we can tell him what's in it. We can compare it to Rotella T6 if you want. (Betcha it loses on a variety of fronts, the first of which is that the Lucas is the wrong weight oil for the Savage engine. Second will be it cost too much by almost 2x.) But we can all go play some if you really want to -- we just need to know exactly which Lucas oil the boy got sold. :) |
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Title: Re: oil Post by rfw2003 on 04/15/13 at 09:31:52 645F5245545843455E565B44370 wrote:
It was not Lucas Oil that should not be used in wet clutches.....it was their ZDDP additive. I emailed Lucas when I was breaking in a new cam and they said their ZDDP additive should not be used as it has some frinction modifiers in it that are not compatible with a wet clutch. I have no idea if their oils have it as well.[/quote] O.K. Thank you for the correction I knew it was something Lucus but couldn't remember what. R.F. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by apache snow on 04/15/13 at 09:38:21 I have read a lot about Lucas additives on bitog and don't have any faith in any product they sell. They do great marketing though and many buy into it. I don't ever remember buying an oil that needed stablizating. :D |
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Title: Re: oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/15/13 at 10:15:08 The backhoe started droppin oil pressure after warm up. It goes from 60+ to 14 once it hits about 160 or so degrees. I started dumping Lucas in, hoping it would help keep things slick when the prerssure drops &, because its so thick, I thot itd help,, SO, Am I screwin up my engine? JUst wastin $$$$? Or IN my situation, its not a bad idea? |
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Title: Re: oil Post by WD on 04/15/13 at 15:11:25 56425316141417240 wrote:
For those motorcycles that don't use a wet clutch system. I know they are few and far between on those, but they do exist like alot of the HD's are a dry clutch system. R.F.[/quote] Dry sump, yes. Dry clutch? Only if someone converted from the stock closed primary (with chain) to an aftermarket primary with belt. Stock HD clutches are wet, in a separate enclosure. Old HDs saw motor oil in the clutch housings, new ones do not. BIG TWINS, neither remember or care how XLs are set up. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by apache snow on 04/15/13 at 16:06:45 All the old Harley 74s I had had a dry clutch. There is oil in the primary but just enough for the chain and not the clutch. I believe harley went to a wet clutch in 1984.5 The Sporster has a wet clutch. I don't know if thay always have had one. I have never owned a Sportster. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by WD on 04/15/13 at 16:32:01 Both of my 36 ELs had wet clutches, my Pans had wet clutches, all 4 Shovels had wet clutches. Both generations of Shovel, flat side and not worth their weight in scrap metal nose cones. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by apache snow on 04/15/13 at 16:35:40 They might have had oil in there but it wasn't for the clutch. my 52, 64 69, 70 and 71 had dry clutches. The Harley manual says they are dry. Before 1965 they did not have a sealed primary. I put a lot of miles on them with out adding any oil to the primary :o I believe the 1936 EL had a total loss chain oiler with a drain hole in the primary cover. http://www.harley-davidson-hangout.com/forum/hdrcgb-vintage-classic-era/72890-shovel-dry-clutch.html http://books.google.com/books?id=PHJi1SFiICcC&pg=PA555&lpg=PA555&dq=does+a+1936+harley+el+have+a+wet+clutch&source=bl&ots=vMb1UvY9rm&sig=OCdcmJTIaoCdWWhZpLd9fz0lfrM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=UZVsUa-tI4iw8ATFg4HIDQ&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=does%20a%201936%20harley%20el%20have%20a%20wet%20clutch&f=false |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Dave on 04/15/13 at 18:27:19 I had a Chevrolet S10 pickup with a manual transmission. One of the gears (or bearings) started making noise under acceleration. When I changed the oil in the transmission in an attempt to fix it....the replacement oil that Chevrolet required was like water....really thin. The noise persisted......so I drained the oil back out and refilled it with Lucas Oil additive as recommended on the bottle. The noise went away and the trans worked just fine. In that instance the Lucas worked for me....but maybe just a thicker conventional gearbox oil would have done the trick. I guess they wanted that thin stuff in there to satisfy the mpg requirments. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by wheelsoffreedom76 on 04/16/13 at 12:52:20 The product # I beleive on the oil I purchased is 10702. However the bottle is grey instead of white like the google search of the number shows. The JASO rating is MA-2 on mine, and some pictures of the white bottle product show just MA. The claim that lucas makes a motorcycle oil that is NOT wet clutch compatible is TRUE. The synthetic 10-40 JASO MB they offer is a motorcycle oil that specifically states not for wet clutch applications. As to the weight of the oil being wrong for the bike, I have always preferred a slightly heavier oil in worn engines (especially air cooled in Kansas). I dont doubt there are even better oils to run than Lucas, I had a Oreilly gift card to spend and the oil was among the things I picked up. I have used other Lucas products and found them to do just fine. If I had bought this bike new and it was broke in, I'd likely be running Redline Synthetic in it. From what I've read it's pretty good. If there is something better let me know, as I plan to buy a new bike this year sometime, and it will only get the best. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by bill67 on 04/16/13 at 12:58:17 Klotz MX4 is the best oil you can get. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Dave on 04/16/13 at 18:16:40 303B3E3E6465520 wrote:
I do believe you have said that before......a hundred times or more. You got any proof this time? Or are you back to just making one sentence statements and running away? |
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Title: Re: oil Post by Oldfeller on 04/16/13 at 18:26:26 6E717C7C756A767F7F6B7C7C7D76742E2F190 wrote:
Well, some information is better than no information, but Lucas changes up their oil's names and specs every season so it does create a little bit of confusion. JASO MA rating no longer means very much as if you shoot for an MA2 and fail part of the test you "drop back" to only an MA rating. This is sad, but it is the way JASO rolls now-a-days. So an oil tested at 800ppm MA2 that fails part of the test gets an MA rating, which use to mean more ZDDP but as of this year no longer means much of anything. Some older Lucas data such as listed below shows the older MA/SL specs of 1100 ppm of ZDDP which would be a better oil than we have seen Lucas shipping sometimes currently under the MA2 listing (800 ppm ZDDP max). Older VOA http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2441456 (they complain about the oil breaking down too fast) More current VOA http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2601166 (they is MEAN, them BITOG fellers, jest plum mean to them poor old Lucas oil products) Will your Savage blow up? Heck no, run the oil until you would normally change it. You can buy better oils for about half as much money, Rotella T6 comes to mind as a better full synthetic oil that happens to cost about $5 and some change a quart. Running a 20w50 synthetic oil is not the best thing to do in a Savage. A decent synthetic does not thin out like an old Harley dino oil did in them old Harleys -- it stays full thick the whole time. And a 50W oil is too thick for normal use in a Savage, you will waste some gasoline and have extra sump oil temperature because the thicker oil can nether accept nor dump heat as quickly as a 40W synthetic can do. A synthetic 40w is the best all round use oil in the Savage engine. You don't own a Harley, so why are you using Harley oil? You can, some do -- but it isn't what is recommended for a closer tolerance Japanese engine. |
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Title: Re: oil Post by apache snow on 04/16/13 at 18:27:54 I would say it doesn't matter if klotz is good or not. The price and availability will disqualify it with me. there are other oils that will be just as good or better that are readily available at a much cheaper price. just my opinion |
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Title: Re: oil Post by apache snow on 04/16/13 at 18:33:58 00232B292A23232A3D4F0 wrote:
Well, some information is better than no information, but Lucas changes up their oil names and specs every season so it creates a little bit of confusion. JASO MA rating no longer means very much as if you shoot for an MA2 and fail part of the test you "drop back" to only an MA rating. This is sad, but it is the way JASO rolls now-a-days. So an oil tested at 800ppm MA2 that fails part of the test gets an MA rating, which use to mean more ZDDP but as of this year no longer means much of anything. Some older Lucas data such as listed below shows the older MA/SL specs of 1100 ppm of ZDDP which would be a better oil than we have seen Lucas shipping sometimes currently under the MA2 listing (800 ppm ZDDP max). Older VOA http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2441456 More current VOA http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2601166 [/quote] Looking at the current uoa I would not use that oil in my lawn mower. ZDDP levels are pitiful. |
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