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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> 5000 rpm safe? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1364440146 Message started by Kimito on 03/27/13 at 20:09:06 |
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Title: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kimito on 03/27/13 at 20:09:06 I was just reading the correspondence of RPM and speed in each gear. I usually shift to my 3rd gear when its 30 mph... it says that its about 4000 rpm And that I could shift at 40 mph which would be 5000 rpm... However, I feel like I'm going to damage the engine (mine is 1997 model with no re jet but drag pipe) ... Do you guys think its safe? Anybody now what is that RPM limit (normally red line in the tach) for suzuki savage?? I used to ride sports r-bikes and I just switched to savage so having hard time understanding the whole RPM difference... Thank you!! |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by verslagen1 on 03/27/13 at 20:19:00 red line is said to be 6550 OF has gone beyond that you can't unless you miss a shift unless you hold WFO and don't shift on purpose... after your eyes pop out it may blow. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Serowbot on 03/27/13 at 21:57:05 ;D ;D ;D... I've gone well past 70mph in 3rd... (she ain't giving much more up there,.. just beggin' for the next gear, but no damage)... the engine will just peter out before there's any damage... You'll get faster acceleration, if you shift out to 4th at about 65 or 70... at least with my bike... PS.. by "drag pipe" do you mean no muffler at all?... No guarantees with that set-up... Redline in 3rd, is 78mph... on your stock speedo... (PS... redline.. is max revs, not max HP... you don't want to hit redline every shift, or maybe ever at all... Max acceleration will come from shifting at a point that puts max HP in the middle of each gear... That's hard to judge... and will vary HP peak is somewhere around 5.5k rpm.. )... http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/rerun/140-90-15chrt.jpg |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by 45acp on 03/27/13 at 22:19:45 good info to have. i really like the graph serowbot. i was wondering the same thing the last time i rode. i thought i might be waiting to long to shift. according to the chart im doing okay. i guess now i can ride faster! |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Serowbot on 03/27/13 at 22:37:07 Thank you, 45... More detailed info here... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1341162964 ...( the charts here will differentiate between indicated speed and actual... and have a few different tire sizes).. ..(there is another Tech post showing info on the 4spd Savage) (if your bike doesn't fit any chart,... go to... http://www.gearingcommander.com/.. and feed in your own specs)... |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by jcstokes on 03/27/13 at 22:37:26 Handbook quotes the following at 6500rpm 1ST 35 MPH, 2ND 55MPH, 3RD 75 MPH, 4TH 90 MPH?? 5TH 100 MPH??? |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Serowbot on 03/27/13 at 22:44:34 JC,.. those look approximately correct... they just rounded the numbers... A stock Savage doesn't have the power to reach redline in 4th or 5th... |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kimito on 03/28/13 at 09:10:16 Thank you all~ I got the idea now haha great to know till where I could push my bike to have little more fun.. Well... you guys might not believe this,,, but When i got my last oil change.. I pushed the first gear about 35miles on a hill and oil cover (right side of my engine) explode and it were all over my feet so since that I was kinda worried... Any idea what happened there?? |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Dave on 03/28/13 at 09:16:12 4B5557090C0E0C3C0 wrote:
I am not sure what happened with the grammer in that sentence.....but it sounds to me that the problem with the bike was somebody put your oil filter in backwards. The check valve would not let the oil flow and the pressure broke the filter cover. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Serowbot on 03/28/13 at 09:46:28 Yup,.. we've seen half dozen or more side cases blow from an oil filter installed backwards... :o... |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Dave on 03/28/13 at 11:57:16 5,000-6,500 rpm is similar to the local biker bar. It is OK to go there every now and then.......But if you hang around there all the time - you will eventually get into trouble! :o |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by ToesNose on 03/28/13 at 12:38:47 HaHaHa nicely put Dave. ;) |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by LANCER on 03/28/13 at 17:54:21 1C272A3D2C203B3D262E233C4F0 wrote:
Uh oh, I hang around that area frequently. ::) |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by scubachef on 03/28/13 at 18:49:20 I commonly run between 5k-5.5k while on the freeway. What sorts of issues would occur from running that rpm regularly for sustained periods? |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Dave on 03/29/13 at 04:59:38 627264737072797477110 wrote:
Based on that speed rpm chart....you are going between 75-85 mph. For starters.........you are speeding and could get a ticket! |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Oldfeller on 03/29/13 at 05:33:25 You know, for as odd as it sounds we have enough data over enough years to have collected like 5 "oil filters in backwards by Mikey at the dealership" blow up events. That is somewhat strange and sad, isn't it? Our bike is unusual as it gets owned by newbies in the mostly by and large, and it gets abused by them and by el Mikey at the dealerships more so than most other bikes do. So we collect data on some odd failure modes. =================== Use Rotella T6 synthetic oil and you can spin as many RPMs as you want for as long as you want. Several of us do, regularly. Especially on them mountain trips. Use a cheap dino oil and you may see some problems due to heat and stress. Up to you, really. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Cavi Mike on 03/29/13 at 08:48:31 Stop staring at your tach. The reason why this bike doesn't have one is because it doesn't need one. When the power starts to drop off - shift. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Super Thumper on 03/29/13 at 10:08:26 The first thing I did when I bought my 2001 LS650 was to add an electronic tach. I found my RPM at 60 MPH to be right at 4000. I also found with a completely stock engine and exhaust system the bike would rev up to 6500 but realistically anything after 5500 and the engine stopped pulling hard. Like some of the others I found my top end was faster by about 5 mph in third gear than in 5th topped out at 72 mph and 3rd at 77-78 mph. Then I junked that heavy sorry stock muffler in favor of an aftermarket Dunstal muffler. After drilling out the pilot jet plug and making some adjustments she would top out in 5th gear at about 80 mph on a long flat stretch (at least a half a mile). In my opinion still to slow to get to the top speed. I am a prick when it comes to machinery not working the way I think it should so in December of 2012 I pulled the engine out of the frame and tore the top end off. HORRORS :o.....A flat top piston???(A dismal 8.5 to 1 compression)...In this day and age? And a disgrace for an exhaust port. >:( The engine is now back in the frame with a 97mm Big Bore kit with a Wiseco 10.5 to 1 forged piston, ported cylinder head and a Web Cams Stage III camshaft. I hope that will fix most of the engine's shortcomings. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by LANCER on 03/29/13 at 19:47:56 I think calling the exhaust ports on the LS650 engine a disgrace is extending too much grace. The correct term is one of those not mentionable on this forum. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by ralfyguy on 03/30/13 at 06:28:24 0C010E0305125257600 wrote:
I'm still thinking about grinding out the exhaust port on mine, but I don't know if this will be good for the stock header, or if this will gain anything with the stick header... |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by clearush on 03/30/13 at 07:44:21 I regularly run 70-80mph for about 15 miles of my work commute but I've only put about 5000 miles on so far. So I've not really had enough time on it to give any solid input like some of the others. And Dave down here in TX we have 75 mph limit on several of the interstates and some toll roads out by Austin have an 85mph limit. And with local hwy limits at 65... 70+ is ok most of the time while running with traffic. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Super Thumper on 03/30/13 at 09:58:37 Here is a before pic of the stock exhaust port on a Savage. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Super Thumper on 03/30/13 at 10:01:19 Here is a pic of my newly ported exhaust port on my savage....before I painted the head black. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by sauvage on 12/15/16 at 03:34:18 Just made a copy of the MPH chart and converted to KPH FWIW. http://https://s24.postimg.org/wau8kd1th/kph.jpg |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Serowbot on 12/15/16 at 08:10:28 Nice Sauvage... I'll copy and paste it into the Tech Section thread on speed charts... 8-) |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Ruttly on 12/15/16 at 12:24:55 S/T , what carb are you going to use and what exhaust are you going to use ? |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by LANCER on 12/15/16 at 21:32:21 0A2D2C2C3421580 wrote:
He uses the Lectron carb. It is a good piece. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by old.indian on 12/15/16 at 22:45:57 153233332B3E470 wrote:
I have the Lectron carb, Stage 3 cam shaft, ST's modified head, 94mm 10.5 compression ratio Wiseco piston, a 1.75" (single wall) header, Dyna muffler, and a 28 tooth front pulley. I can pull 7,000 RPM in 2nd and 3rd as well as 5,000 in 5th (80+ MPH) sitting straight up. This is at 6,000 feet above sea level. At sea level I would be @ 38-40 HP at the rear wheel. (I use 7,000 RPM as MY redline. I've had it to 7,500 in 2nd once and it felt like it could go further, but ...) |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Super Thumper on 12/16/16 at 09:58:13 My 695cc "Super Thumper" will pull strong to 8,000 RPM with the cam I have in it but I limit it to 7500 RPM for safety. This is with the stock valve springs and NO valve float |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 12/16/16 at 18:04:36 No float at 8 grand with stock springs?!?!? Suzi built this bike for people who rev less than 4000 and ride at 45 mph. Just an observation. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/16/16 at 21:27:43 4A5456080D0F0D3D0 wrote:
Generally, anytime a piece of an engine breaks and oil gushes out, being Concerned is a Really reasonable feeling. Did the engine survive? The dealership should pay for another shop to check it out and replace it or warranty it for a t least twenty thousand miles. Against oil starvation type problems. I'm still wondering HOW anyone could possibly think the filter looks right bakkerds And HOW do you actually accomplish it? This is the third Professional oil change I can remember that they put it in backwards.. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Ruttly on 12/16/16 at 22:28:29 At 8000 rpm you might think you not floating the valves but you are about 2 rpm from finding out what happens when it does,that strange metallic sound right before it sputters to the side of the road if your lucky , or it just locks up ! With the close proximity of the exhaust port to the tiny valves & guides and lack of liquid cooling it a very fine line with heat ,that exhaust valve slows for just a millisecond it's all over. Remember this is a cruiser engine not the old race worthy SR500 or a modern liquid cooled thumper. Best off trying to build it with a wide midrange power band rather than a high revving time bomb. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Super Thumper on 12/17/16 at 07:51:59 I have a GoPRO MP4 video of it....when I get the video edited I will post it here!! |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/17/16 at 08:15:52 I rarely open it up to WFO, but if I do, it's in fifth.. I just lay into it pretty good, about 80% throttle and change gears when I feel the acceleration peak. If you're trying to pass someone, back away from them and accelerate at them, timing your I NEED to change lanes or hit the brakes Moment with the gap in oncoming traffic. If you're even Close to going on reserve, just flip the petcock before you start getting set up. Don't ask, okay? |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by batman on 01/02/17 at 14:18:26 Just a thought but if you ever look at a dyno run you'll see that torque and horsepower lines always cross at 5250 rpm ,that's about 80 mph on a mostly stock S-40, that means any further speed is a extreme uphill battle ,so to me a steady speed on the highway of 60-75 (depending on speed limit) is as hard as I push my bike without worry about damage,I reserve wide open throttle for passing only. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Ruttly on 01/02/17 at 14:56:47 As you might guess, I have no reserve for WOT/WFO ;D |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by LANCER on 01/02/17 at 19:52:54 RESERVES ? What's that ? [ch128526] |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Ruttly on 01/02/17 at 21:25:35 We might need to meet in person one of these dayz !!! |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Ruttly on 01/02/17 at 21:32:01 With our bikes ! Savages , Sportsters whatever , or both :o |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/03/17 at 18:51:35 6162776E626D373B030 wrote:
That's because hp = torque * RPM / 5252 (not 5250) 6162776E626D373B030 wrote:
Same here |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by batman on 01/03/17 at 22:05:27 Right Kris! sorry I was 2 rpm off! but even though hp is still rising torque is dropping off even faster. where it might take 20hp to get you to 75 it will take 20 more to get you to 100 ,hence the "uphill climb'. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by LANCER on 01/04/17 at 13:40:30 7E59585840552C0 wrote:
I vote for both ! It's more fun. [ch128513] |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/04/17 at 19:14:47 4043564F434C161A220 wrote:
That's 1 demerit! Don't let it happen again! >:( ;D |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/04/17 at 21:12:29 I scraped ALL of his stars off the scoreboard. Geeeze, TWO RPM! How can anyone be That WRONG!?!? Look ashamed, Batman, look Very ashamed.. I'm still trying to understand why the torque/HP graphs cross at That RPM. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Ruttly on 01/05/17 at 18:25:07 Armen would know why that is ! |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by batman on 01/05/17 at 18:33:52 Life is hell! I was 99.068% right and .032% wrong ! take the stars ,take 'em take 'em!!! ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/05/17 at 18:52:54 0B141215080F3E0E3E06141853610 wrote:
Because 5252 is in the denominator. HP and torque ALWAYS cross at 5252 RPM. It's just a function of the math involved. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/05/17 at 18:53:08 426564647C69100 wrote:
Yeah but nobody could read his explanation. You Know he'd drill the blasted thing full of holes. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by batman on 01/05/17 at 18:59:47 Well here we go!HP=TORQUE x rpm /5252 When Rpm reaches 5252 these numbers cancel each other out leaving hp=torque and this time I'm 100% right. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/05/17 at 19:02:54 hp = torque * RPM / 5252 hp = torque * 5252 / 5252 hp = torque * 1 hp = torque ALWAYS!! ;) |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by batman on 01/05/17 at 19:40:05 Kris your a parrot one demerit! |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/05/17 at 19:49:31 HP = torque at 5252 ,,, But Why? |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/05/17 at 20:02:33 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower Read History of the unit and Calculating Power. The constant 5252 is the rounded value of (33,000 ft·lbf/min)/(2[ch960] rad/rev). |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/05/17 at 20:04:20 787B6E777B742E221A0 wrote:
Just for JOG! ;D |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by norm92de on 01/05/17 at 21:29:11 This sounds like Chris Katan, Why, Why , Why. ;D |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/05/17 at 21:44:30 The constant 5252 is the rounded value of (33,000 ft·lbf/min)/(2[ch960] rad/rev). That's helpful, thanks. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by LANCER on 01/06/17 at 01:01:53 So are HP & Torque values equal on the LS650 ? That is a bit high, especially on a stock unit. What about for a 650 twin ? 4 cylinder ? My truck engine ? I don't think the LS650 knows anything about math. ;D |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Dave on 01/06/17 at 03:22:24 464B44494F58181D2A0 wrote:
Your engine may not know anything about math - but the HP number is created by math.....Horsepower ratings are a function of math (torque x rpm.....with the 5,250 number added to make the numbers somewhat meaningful). The engine produces torque at the crankshaft, and when you multiply that value times the rpm....you are creating a mathematical measure of the work (HP) that can be done over a specific period of time. The formula doesn't care how many cylinders you have - but most likely the torque value does. The stock Savage engine is listed as having 31 HP @5,400 rpm, and 37 ft/llbs @3,400 rpm. (This goes a long way toward explaining why your engine stops pulling hard as you approach the 6,500 rpm redline - the HP drops off for that last 1,100 rpm). |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by batman on 01/06/17 at 12:15:14 as the speed of the ls -40 gets to 5252rpm (around 80+ mph) you have used about 27+ hp ,mean while the torque that peaked at 34/3500 rpm has slid down to 27+ ftlbs . (all figures approx.)so yes they still cross at 5252rpm.If you rebuild your motor like some have ,and use a better cam and piston you gain more hp and torque ,the torque may still peak at 3500 to 4000 rpm but the torque curve tends to flatten ,it still drops off but at a reduced rate. so at 5252 your hp and torque have higher values,but torque still drops of sharply after 5252 rpm. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Ruttly on 01/06/17 at 12:47:17 Depends on the cam |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by batman on 01/06/17 at 12:57:50 showing is better than telling ,let me see a dyno printout where it doesn't! |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/06/17 at 13:15:36 72494453424E555348404D52210 wrote:
So at 5252 RPM we are making close to 31 ft/lbs of torque (actually a little less) since we make 31 hp at 5400 RPM. http://motorcycleperformanceanalyzer.com/suzuki/ls-650-p-savage-2000/ Click the left hand Power tab for a dyno graph. Take these numbers with a grain of salt. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by piedmontbuckeye on 01/06/17 at 13:38:36 5F667D672425140 wrote:
Ditto, that's me, except I like cruising around on two-lane back roads at around 50 MPH. I stay in 3rd gear and the engine sounds like it is just purring perfectly at that speed. I am curious, all of this discussion of RPM's vs speed at that RPM - isn't that all presuming the same gear ratio from front to back wheel sprocket? Were all models and all years the same from the factory? |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Dave on 01/06/17 at 13:46:48 The rear wheel/tire size, and front and rear sprocket sizes have always been the same. The early bikes up to 1992 were 4 speed, 1993 and later are 5 speeds. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/06/17 at 14:46:25 4-speed: Primary 1.888 (68/36) Secondary 2.9565 (68/23) 1st 2.214 (31/14) 2nd 1.500 (27/18) 3rd 1.095 (23/21) 4th 0.875 (21/24) 5-speed: Primary 1.8108 (67/37) Secondary 2.9565 (68/23) 1st 2.3333 (35/15) 2nd 1.5789 (30/19) 3rd 1.1429 (24/21) 4th 0.9565 (22/23) 5th 0.8846 (23/26) |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by piedmontbuckeye on 01/06/17 at 15:14:10 I am a tach person, but because of the lack of one, and also because I am cheep, I will just have to get used to the "sound" of the engine to determine best speed/gear to go. I have had a lurking thought that I wonder what the engine sounds like when it is nearing red-line, and then be sure to stay away from that! I (based on my previous experiences) rarely ever get the throttle over half way, unless it would be in the lower gears just before shifting. It is hard to determine that, at the mechanical throttle position is not exactly the same as the position of the carb slide since it is controlled by the vacuum (which can be affected by a number of factors) which make it a little independent of the mechanical position of the throttle plate in the venturi of the carb. My main concern is to not to over load the engine, nor over-rev it. I just like being comfortable. I never hot-rod, race, accelerate fast (unless chased by a bear or something!) and I never speed-shift, or down shift abruptly. I am just an old boring guy!!! Most whipper-snappers don't like to ride with me, nor I with them! Tender loving Care - THAT's what my bike gets!! |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/06/17 at 16:01:14 If you ever over-rev the engine, you'll know it! It sounds like it's going to explode way before you get to max RPMs! :D |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Ruttly on 01/06/17 at 20:53:03 Dave , Wasn't the 4 speed only produced for the first two years of production 1986-87 ? |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by verslagen1 on 01/06/17 at 21:06:43 725554544C59200 wrote:
Likely produced until '94 but wasn't imported to the US after '88 then resumed with the 5 speed in '95 |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/06/17 at 21:09:01 4 speeds lasted from 1986-92. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by batman on 01/06/17 at 21:13:36 Kris , I looked at your graph, 5250rpm hp was about 30 ,torque at 5200rpm(graph jumps from 5200to5300)was 40 nm, or 29ftlbs .So I'd say hp=torque at 5252.hp is still climbing they claim 33 hp @5400 that turns out to be around 86-88 mph which is about what a stock bike's top speed is rated for if I remember . |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/06/17 at 21:16:41 You can click on the right and change nm to ft/lbs. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by LANCER on 01/07/17 at 07:00:54 6B505D4A5B574C4A5159544B380 wrote:
Your engine may not know anything about math - but the HP number is created by math.....Horsepower ratings are a function of math (torque x rpm.....with the 5,250 number added to make the numbers somewhat meaningful [/quote] Thank you Dave, I do understand the basic math for hp & torque but in my statement I just did not make my thoughts and question complete or clear, so my apology for that. I was just thinking over the idea of so many different types and sizes of engines, some of which may never have been designed to exceed 5250 rpm, and in such cases how could it be impossible for hp & torque to cross at that point ? |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/07/17 at 07:24:56 I saw a video years ago of a huuuuge engine that was designed to run at an impossibly low RPM (like 300 or something). The same formula still applies. I guess in this case 0 ft/lbs at 5252 rpm = 0 hp! :D |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/07/17 at 07:34:02 Here's an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awJIvdzL5dE |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Dave on 01/07/17 at 11:08:07 A low rpm engine will still make HP, and it will still have torque.......however the torque value in ft/lbs will be a larger number than the HP value. Think of the old steam traction engines.....they turned low rpm but made a lot of torque. A 110 HP traction engine has 3,000 ft/lb of torque at 240 rpm......and they could pull 20 plows at once! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVxByLO_6cA [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVxByLO_6cA[/media] |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by piedmontbuckeye on 01/07/17 at 12:02:38 49706B713233020 wrote:
I guess knowing the peak torque/HP rating would be important to a racer, to me it is less important than simply knowing where the "red line" is in each gear, and then what would be the best cruising speed (RPM's vs. MPH) for each gear. As I said above, I feel really comfortable at 50 MPH in third gear. At this combination everything sounds great, smooth, quiet, and peaceful. All is right with the world!! PS - don't sell these bikes short! They know . . . when they are being abused or loved!!! ;D ;) |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Ruttly on 01/07/17 at 14:34:40 Oh my , now we have the "Savage Whisperer" ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/07/17 at 18:31:31 6F767A7B7270716B7D6A7C747A667A1F0 wrote:
That seems a little fast for 3rd. I'm in 5th by the time I hit 50. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by batman on 01/07/17 at 19:20:14 I agree with Kris,4th or 5th gear wood be quieter and more peaceful,save gas and be closer to peak torque. Kris 0 torque =0 rpm =0hp and as for those early motors that turned 300 rpm,they made about 15 hp, but 260ftlbs of torque,alot of these were used in boats at the turn of the last century where props of large size 25 to 30 inches turning at 300 rpm had high efficiency (only about 5% prop slip)so could push vessels 9ftwide by 36ft long and around 7500lbs at displacement speeds of around 10mph burning very little fuel.but many of these boats caught out in bad weather hid out behind islands or points of land until storms passed because they had no reseve power or speed. Dave steam has an expansion rate of up to 700-1 it's not an internal combustion engine your talking apples to oranges. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by eau de sauvage on 01/08/17 at 02:39:27 How true, take the Wärtsilä-Sulzer RTA96-C for example, at only 102 RPM it produces 107,000 hp yet manages over 5 1/2 million ft/lbs of torque. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wärtsilä-Sulzer_RTA96-C 4B707D6A7B776C6A7179746B180 wrote:
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by piedmontbuckeye on 01/08/17 at 07:58:04 053C273D7E7F4E0 wrote:
That seems a little fast for 3rd. I'm in 5th by the time I hit 50.[/quote] I'm not sure why, because based on that RPM vs Speed chart on the first page, 50 MPH would put me about 1,000 RPM's less than peak HP while being in 4th or 5th by 50 mph would put the RPM's in my mind too low for that speed -around 2,000 less than peak HP. I know that that combination (50 MPH and 3rd gear) sound good and like it is straining nothing. I would like to hear what others do. What are their gear/speed when cruising in various conditions (for example, I would never cruise at 50 MPH on an interstate!). |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/08/17 at 12:37:02 You want to travel in the highest gear possible that doesn't lug the engine. That way you burn less gas, there's less wear and tear on the engine, it won't overheat, less chance of over-stressing parts, etc, etc, etc.... You don't NEED to cruise at max torque or hp RPMs. ;) |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by eau de sauvage on 01/08/17 at 12:42:54 @piedmonkey, if I was on a cruisey type of road I'd be in 4th or 5th at 80/kph, (50mph) if I was street riding I'd be in either 3rd or 4th, although most probably 4th if I'm in a sporty mood then I might be in 3rd. Either is fine though, it just feels more relaxing in 4th at that speed but 3rd is fine too. 5th gear is more of an overdrive on the s40. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/08/17 at 14:02:37 50 mph in 3rd is a little over 4300 RPMs. In 5th, it's a little over 3300. That's not too low to cruise in 5th. You'd be doing yourself a favor to shift! |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by piedmontbuckeye on 01/08/17 at 14:22:38 172E352F6C6D5C0 wrote:
But it sounds so good! Point well taken! I will try for a while when weather warms up a bit, and then re-program my brain! |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by batman on 01/08/17 at 17:39:57 But it sounds so good! 25% more Heat ,25% more wear, and 20% less mileage ,doesn't sound so good to me.I would expect to do oil changes, valve adjustments,and cam chain inspection 25% earlier as well. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by IslandRoad on 01/08/17 at 18:24:32 Someone talking in kph! ... ah, it's so ... much like home [ch9786] I find 5th a tad under-revved for 80 kph. I usually sit in 4th - especially since receiving some feedback in another thread. 60 kph (this is a common speed limit here in Aus for roads that run through the main part of a town) always feels to me like it's right between 3rd and 4th gear. 47554142555351340 wrote:
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Dave on 01/09/17 at 03:34:52 4F4C59404C4319152D0 wrote:
The example wasn't intended to compare steam to gas......it was intended as an example of how a low rpm engine can make a lot of torque - even though the HP numbers are low in comparison. The calculations to convert rpm x torque into HP still work - even if the engine will never get up to 5,252 rpm. I couldn't find an example of a low rpm gasoline engine with listed ratings for HP/torque at low rpm, as most modern gasoline engines get their HP at higher rpm, and using a diesel engine would have brought a similar apples/orange situation. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by batman on 01/11/17 at 11:38:23 Dave that's why I talked about boats ,you could research William Garden's boat Tlingit for an example 3 cyl. gas engine 30hp @800rpm in a boat 7.5' wide 56' long. ' |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by piedmontbuckeye on 01/14/17 at 07:09:13 172E352F6C6D5C0 wrote:
That seems a little fast for 3rd. I'm in 5th by the time I hit 50.[/quote] I've gone out 2 times since so now I have some feedback. for starters, I may have inappropriately used the word "cruise" before. When I "cruise," I mean ride steadily on back 2-lane roads where I often encounter slight hills, and corners, so, for me, "cruising" like that 3rd gear seems great as I often slow some, and then speed up some - over and over again. I love that kind of riding! However, to your point, I did try to "re-program" my mind to accept the lower engine RPM sound while doing the above in 4th gear, and it, for the most part, seemed to work very good. I will try to make that my new "norm." However 5th was just too luggish for what I encounter. A lot of the above also depends upon the "load" of the hill, etc. On even level ground going in a straight line with good visibility, I will now always try to go up into the higher gears. thanks! |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by batman on 01/16/17 at 19:54:54 there's nothing to prevent you from down shifting to 3rd going into a curve ,or if you head uphill ,then going to 4th when you reach the apex,of either. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/17/17 at 06:55:12 If I didn't Want to change gears I'd drive a car with an automatic. Learn HOW and you can shift up and down from second to fifth and back, smoothly and without the clutch. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by piedmontbuckeye on 01/20/17 at 09:19:44 081711160B0C3D0D3D05171B50620 wrote:
Sorry, but . . . there's a reason they put a clutch on these bikes, and I assure you that it is not just to start out from a stop! |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by SALB on 01/20/17 at 12:02:36 677E72737A7879637562747C726E72170 wrote:
Sorry, but . . . there's a reason they put a clutch on these bikes, and I assure you that it is not just to start out from a stop! [/quote] Clutchless shifting is an art mastered by many truckers and heavy equipment operators. ;) If done right, no damage. If done wrong, it will damage your transmission. If you want to try it, read up on it before you try. 8-) |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/20/17 at 17:35:39 Motorcycle transmissions are easy to shift up without a clutch. Just ease off the throttle and shift. No harm, no foul. There's plenty of arguments all over the internet for and against clutchless shifting. Downshifting without a clutch will take some practice though. I don't know if it hurts anything (half say it will, half say it won't), so I use my clutch. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/20/17 at 18:01:26 Well, I've got about 20,000 miles of just abusing the crap out of the first one and three thousand on this one and they show no signs of being any different than showroom floor. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Dave on 01/21/17 at 03:36:29 I have had bikes that shift smoothly without the clutch....my Savage just doesn't seem to be one that does it smoothly. It could be the Wiseco and other modifications make it difficult to match the engine rpm well....my engine has a lot of compression braking. I use my clutch to shift on the Savage....it is smoother than not using it. If you can clutchless shift on your Savage and do it smoothly....great - just don't feel bad if you can't do it or have to us the clutch to shift, as most people use the clutch. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by piedmontbuckeye on 01/21/17 at 06:32:30 27383E3924231222122A38347F4D0 wrote:
I guess I want to know how YOU know that there was no damage and like "showroom" ?? I'v ridden literally hundreds of thousands of miles. Only clutchless shifting I will do is when my clutch cable breaks and I have to. I've been inside many motorcycle engines & and transmissions, and people do all sorts of damage that may not show up in the riding (20,000 miles !!) and yet WILL show up someday! No thanks! I am wondering why anyone would want to do clutchless shifting for just normal upshifting or downshifting. ??? |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/21/17 at 08:17:09 The feedback I get from a machine Tells me if it's hurt. The oil I get out carries indication of damage. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by piedmontbuckeye on 01/22/17 at 07:10:27 637C7A7D60675666566E7C703B090 wrote:
Just curious, have you had any of your transmissions apart after doing all of this clutchless shifting. I would bet an interior inspections would show a lot of damage that you method of "feedback" does not show. Thanks, but no thanks! I am wondering what the official position of Suzuki would be in this discussion? |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/22/17 at 07:54:20 ing what the official position of Suzuki would be in this discussion? Back to top Same as yours. And I don't care. I know how it FEELS. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by piedmontbuckeye on 01/22/17 at 11:29:31 342B2D2A3730013101392B276C5E0 wrote:
Yep! Your feelings are all that matters. It's your bike, but remind me NEVER to purchase one of your bikes! |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/22/17 at 19:09:40 Can we just agree to disagree? Jeesh!! ::) |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by LANCER on 01/24/17 at 13:56:02 665F445E1D1C2D0 wrote:
Amen |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by eau de sauvage on 01/24/17 at 18:10:06 This is all my fault. I came across the rpm engine speed illustration which is on page one, and so I revived a three year old thread to update it with the US centric mph changed to kph which I made for my own purposes. I put it on page two. The only reason I posted it here was because this is where the original image was, it did not occur to me to put it in the tech section which I'm told it has been added to. |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by ohiomoto on 01/25/17 at 05:44:10 28110A105352630 wrote:
----------------------------------------- Why would anybody agree to disagree? This is only on page 8 right now. We have at least 8 more pages of this crap. lol |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by SALB on 01/26/17 at 13:27:30 32353432303229325D0 wrote:
----------------------------------------- Why would anybody agree to disagree? This is only on page 8 right now. We have at least 8 more pages of this crap. lol[/quote] ;D Almost as juicy as an oil war! ;D |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/26/17 at 17:32:28 Don't give 'em any ideas! ;D |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by batman on 01/27/17 at 05:55:51 Iwant to state right now,that I disagree with agreeing to disagree! :) :) :) :) |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/27/17 at 10:16:49 Who's on first? :-? |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Dave on 01/27/17 at 10:23:36 132A312B6869580 wrote:
Or....should it be - "Whose still in 1st"? ;) |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by LANCER on 01/27/17 at 15:11:57 Ya'll be needin PROFESSIONAL help ! |
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Title: Re: 5000 rpm safe? Post by Kris01 on 01/27/17 at 15:52:36 4D746F753637060 wrote:
Hmm, my link didn't come through! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg I was responding to Batman. It ain't so funny now! ;D |
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