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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Valve Noise Normal? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1364077005 Message started by wheelsoffreedom76 on 03/23/13 at 15:16:44 |
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Title: Valve Noise Normal? Post by wheelsoffreedom76 on 03/23/13 at 15:16:44 checked and adjusted the valves on my recently aquired S40 as at full operating temperature I could hear them pretty well. Upon inspection the intake was just shy of being able to fit my .004" (the smallest I have) in there, but there is some clearance as I can move the rocker just a hair so I'm thinking the intakes are probably at .003". The exhaust was at .008" so I set them to .004". There is plenty of oil making it to the top end. I buttoned it up and rode around awhile, and the valve noise was much, much quieter. However, at full temperature the exhaust valves can still be heard. I'm running Rotella 15w40 oil, and the temperature outside has been in the 40's and 50's when I have been riding. The exhaust header is light gold for the first 8" or so, but no blue anywhere. I am a mechanic by trade, and have worked on everything but motorcycles until this one. To my ear, it still seems to tap too much but maybe it's normal. While I had it apart, I applied light pressure upward on the rocker assembly with one finger, and tapped another finger downward on the other side of the rocker assembly and it made that signature tap when the adjuster bolts contacted the valve stems. That was at .008" before I adjusted them, so I know that is where the noise is originating. My next step is to get either a master set of feeler gauges that includes .002" and .003" or maybe the motion pro angled gauge in .002-.003" and set the exhaust again (though that is awlful tight on exhaust valves for my taste), and or find a suitable 20w50 wet clutch oil, or even 60 weight. I know they are getting lubed well, as I've pulled the covers twice and each time, there is oil between the adjuster bolts, and the valve stems, and no visible wear to the valve stems or adjuster bolts. Am I nitpicking this thing? Or do you guys run .002-.003 and heavier oil? Or just let'er tap? |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by rfw2003 on 03/23/13 at 15:30:10 Think solid tappet cams, there is always going to be some noise there. Myself I use the Rotella T6 which is the full syn 5w40 and have no issues. If your using normal feeler gauges you will definitely want to bend them so you can get an accurate reading when setting your valve clearance. If you still getting excessive noise it may not be your valves but your cam chain tensioner, put you hand or foot on the right side case and see if you feel a tapping there when it's running. If you do that is your cam chain tensioner getting ready to fall apart, from being extended to far. Some people do run a heavier weight oil in their savages but I for one don't recommend it because the savage has a marginal oiling system as it is, and when cold the top end is starved of oil with the heavy weight oils for a longer period of time, and there are no bearings for the cam. So once damage is done there, there are no bearings to replace to fix it. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by wheelsoffreedom76 on 03/23/13 at 16:09:33 The first repairs I made on this bike was a new cam chain tensioner modified by machine shop so it has about 4mm of extension when installed. New crankshaft oil seal, and clutch cover gasket. Oil filter and fresh oil. And yes, the .004" feeler gauge I used was removed from the set, and belt to around 45 degrees so the measuring portion was perfectly flat between stem and adjuster bolt. I'm sure it will run for many more years. I'm just picky. |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/23/13 at 16:11:26 Theyre a noisy engine, its okay,, just keep them adjusted. |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by Serowbot on 03/23/13 at 16:12:50 Air-cooled bikes do have looser tolerances,.. to allow for heat expansion,.. so, they will be noisier,.. and this is a big thumper, so it has big parts... ... a little noise when hot, is normal... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by oldNslow on 03/23/13 at 16:13:06 http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=suzuki+savage+youtube&qpvt=suzuki+savage+youtube&FORM=VDRE There are a bunch of short videos on youtube that you can listen to and get a pretty good idea of what these bikes sound like. Just try to find guys with low mileage bikes that still have the stock pipe. The link above will get you started. Like rfw2003 said, these engines do make some valve noise even when everything is OK. |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by raydawg on 03/23/13 at 16:23:29 Don't you check and adjust a cold motor only? |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by wheelsoffreedom76 on 03/23/13 at 16:28:41 I actually did watch every video I could find of how these bikes sound for comparison. Mine is quieter than the majority of them. However for most of the videos I seen, it is unknown if those bikes are within specs, or have ever been serviced. Thanks guys for the quick responses to my question. |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by oldNslow on 03/23/13 at 16:29:34 66756D70756373140 wrote:
Yes, Clymers says cool - 95 degreesF or less. |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by wheelsoffreedom76 on 03/23/13 at 16:34:23 Mine was plenty cool, was 30 something degrees. |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by Serowbot on 03/23/13 at 16:40:31 3F202D2D243B272E2E3A2D2D2C27257F7E480 wrote:
Smart move... storing your bike in the 'fridge... It'll stay fresh longer that way... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by 87 savage on 03/23/13 at 17:25:41 3B242929203F232A2A3E29292823217B7A4C0 wrote:
Hi Wheelsoffreedom76, not to nitpick, but are you sure you don't mean Transmission main or output shaft seal? The crank is totally encased in the engine. There are no crank seals. Anyway, a little noise is normal. My wife's 08 Boulevard has 800 miles on it and ticks a little when fully warmed up. Sounds like you checked and adjusted yours correctly. |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by Dave on 03/23/13 at 17:26:52 Here is a shameless promotion. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1346847853/0 Send me $ 7.00 and I will mail you a 0.003 and 0.004 feeler gauge. I adjust them so the 0.004 won't go through....but the 0.003 will. Dave |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by wheelsoffreedom76 on 03/23/13 at 18:35:00 54595750474104020C0D350 wrote:
Hi Wheelsoffreedom76, not to nitpick, but are you sure you don't mean Transmission main or output shaft seal? The crank is totally encased in the engine. There are no crank seals. Anyway, a little noise is normal. My wife's 08 Boulevard has 800 miles on it and ticks a little when fully warmed up. Sounds like you checked and adjusted yours correctly. [/quote] http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/47/Year/2006/ModelID/7861/Model/LS650,S40_2005-2006/GroupID/373637/Group/CRANKSHAFT_ Ref# 10 crankshaft oil seal right hand |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by Digger on 03/23/13 at 20:33:06 Wheels, FWIW, when I adjust the valve lash on mine (see my signature block), I use two feeler gauges (both the same size). For intake or exhaust, I put one in the port valve's side and one in the starboard valve's side. I feel this technique lends itself to a more accurate measurement. JMHO! |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by 87 savage on 03/24/13 at 05:37:06 [quote author=3B242929203F232A2A3E29292823217B7A4C0 link=1364077005/0#2 date=1364080173] New crankshaft oil seal, and clutch cover gasket. I'm sure it will run for many more years. I'm just picky. [/quote] http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/47/Year/2006/ModelID/7861/Model/LS650,S40_2005-2006/GroupID/373637/Group/CRANKSHAFT_ Ref# 10 crankshaft oil seal right hand[/quote] Yup, totally overlooked the seal in the crankcase cover. My bad ::) |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by wheelsoffreedom76 on 04/16/13 at 13:26:16 Well after rechecking the adjustment on two seperate occasions, adjusting them down to .002" and trying that, and finally putting them back at .004" on both intake and exhaust. I've concluded that the valves havnt made any noise since the first time I adjusted them when they were at nearly .009" clearance. HOWEVER, I still have a pronounced tap that exactly mimmicks a loose valve adjustment, but only when at full operating temperature, and the switch from 15w40 to 20w50 made the tap less noticeable. The bottom end is quiet always, and the tap starts to be heard about 70% warmed up, and reaches it's full tap when 100% warmed up. Long screwdriver to the ear hasnt revealed anything. Listening around the engine it sure seems to be localized around the valvetrain area. I've put nearly 400 miles on it soo far, and the tap hasnt changed. I've poured through the parts schematics for everything at the top end looking for a culprit. Though I have little experience with bike repair, I have been an auto and equip tech for nearly 20 years and my gut says something has excessive clearance, and the cooler (thicker) oil is masking it till it gets warmed up. I did recently check the decomp lever adjustment, and verify the rocker arm was not contacting the decomp shaft while running. |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by 87 savage on 04/16/13 at 15:46:55 Wheels, sounds like you have done a super thorough job adjusting the rocker arms and checking everything over. Really wish I could hear your bike. Hate to repeat what other forum members have said but these bikes are noisy, even when fairly new. What convinces me that it is the rockers is the fact that you only hear it when warm. That is when both my 87 and the wifes 2008 exhibit a little rocker noise when totally warm. If it were bottom end or a bearing you would most likely hear it when cold. Maybe you could record it so we can hear it? |
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Title: Re: Valve Noise Normal? Post by old_rider on 04/16/13 at 16:30:18 Wheels....just a suggestion.... head out to a dealer and ask to test ride a new one....listen to it and compair, or find a used one that has been "checked" by thier mechanic and ask to listen to it. Think that will help? I'm with you tho, been playin' with the wifes trying to make it safe enough for me to turn over to her and I think it still sounds too noisy, was about t do a valve adjustment myself. |
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