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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Fiat 500 (NGC) /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1362685800 Message started by Trippah on 03/07/13 at 11:49:59 |
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Title: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Trippah on 03/07/13 at 11:49:59 Holy cubicle - I just went to look at the Fiat 500 (My Nissan Max is getting old) since I'm going to be in the market for a high MPG 2 person vehicle (I know - enclosed motorcycle!) that I can zip from place to place in New England (must like snow). Talk about tiny. Art Garfunkel would never fit his hair in the 500. Might be fun in Boston though . :o I'm thinking the Fiat would bounce off snow on the road, slipping and sliding to its hearts content. Anyone own one or have experience with the new model. I will admit the Abarth add did catch my eye. I had actualy driven out to the car place cause they dealt in Suzuki Cars - which I was told are no longer here in the US. (I knew this but forgot.) |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by LostArtist on 03/07/13 at 12:00:23 my brother-in-law has an Abarth, I don't know, I don't get it. ever since I started riding, I haven't been happy with any cars. but I've made bad choices, |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Pine on 03/07/13 at 14:36:38 A co-worker hubby bought the 500C "lounge" but he somehow got a deal on it for like $15k ( with trad of an old SMart car). She says its a lot better on the back... but we dont have snow down here. My idea of a small 2-seater = Mazda Miata or Toyota Mr2 or Porshe or BMW Z Fiat.... ummm not on the list Now an Atom would be killer!! http://www.arielatom.com/ |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 03/07/13 at 14:46:39 We're starting to see more of them here in Columbus, Ohio area. I personally think they look neat - I've always liked small cars, and have had about a dozen old VW Bugs ( not the new ones ) in my lifetime. I have a buddy who has a Smart - that thing looks dangerous, but he drives about 50 miles each way to work and gets about 45 mpg. What's the mileage rating on the Fiat 500? Do you have a dealer close for service? Don't know about you, but I'm a firm believer in getting cars serviced at the dealer for many reasons, including but not limited to the fact that if a tech screws up, you've got the dealer and the manufacturer behind him. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Cavi Mike on 03/07/13 at 15:41:31 A Smart only gets 45mpg? I was not expecting that at all. Plenty of cars get that and they aren't death traps. For something that small and light I was really expecting at least 50. As far as getting your car fixed at the dealer; if you've got a ton of money, don't care about getting over-charged and have no skill - go for it. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 03/07/13 at 15:59:09 I have found that dealer service is no more expensive than Billy Bob's garage. I like OEM parts, and techs who are properly trained on my car, not dozens of other types where the guy may, or may not know what he's tearing into. Example - back 20 years ago, my wife thought she heard a noise in her transmission in her '93 BMW 5 series wagon with only 2,000 miles till warranty expired. She took it to dealer, the guy put in it gear on the lift, took a doc's stethoscope on the tranny case and started listening to the tranny. He heard the noise, told her it'd be about 10 minutes to call BMW and get approval to tear into it. He came back saying that the factory wouldn't let him get into it - her brand new tranny would be shipped that day - the factory wanted hers shipped back, untouched, so they could autopsy it and figure out what happened. New tranny was $3500 - all replaced totally under warranty. Would you get that from Billy Bob? Doubtful. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Boofer on 03/07/13 at 16:12:59 It depends on the dealer. I've always done my own work, because it was cheaper and I enjoy it. However, dealers are hurting for business and make good money on service, so they are trying to get back to giving service worthy of the hourly rates they charge. Same goes for motorcycle dealerships. And a lot depends on your manner, volume of your voice and choice of words when you describe your problem. :) |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Cavi Mike on 03/07/13 at 16:17:57 2D222E242F2229252235202235470 wrote:
So many things wrong with what you just said. For starters - you didn't find that the dealer was "no more expensive" because dealer bills are sometimes twice as what you'd pay at a chain. This is why chains exist in the first place. Second - The same guys that work at dealers work at chains. I know this because the vast majority of my friends are mechanics. They all bounce from shop to shop whether it's a dealer or not. Third - Warranty work. If you have a car that's under warranty - you aren't paying for it in the first place so of course you'd go to the dealer. And as far as getting a transmission for free - do you really think you're getting that anywhere when a car is out of warranty? Clearly you're talking out of your ass. *edit* Oh - and "Billy Bob's" would be the cheapest of the three because they don't have huge overhead from franchise fees. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Trippah on 03/07/13 at 19:56:44 Like Jerry, I usually use the dearler especially if the car is still in warranty; I don't want them to have the excuse some else screwed it up. After the warranty, it depends how complex I think the problem is. My suspician is the dealers mechanics have seen brand x's blet exchange, for example more than my very good local shadetree who I use for all maintenance and brake crap once warranty is gone. Gonna teest drive the Abaarth next week if'n we get a pleasant (non-snowy) day. Will report in if I do drive it. Happy Spring snow day. Pine - I do love the Mazda also, but I have so little hair left and precancerous skin spots, i thinking top down may not be the way to go. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by PerrydaSavage on 03/08/13 at 03:20:04 The Fiat 500 is a very cool little car and just might meet your driving requirements with a lot more panache than my '08 Yaris 2-Dr HB ... which BTW, even with a 5-spd hasn't gotten any better than 34mpg ... but is decent enough in the snow (equipped with winter tires) ... and we get LOTS of snow up here! I'd say the 500 would be at least as good driving in the white stuff ... |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by engineer on 03/08/13 at 05:10:19 According to Fiat's official mileage statement the 500 gets 31 mpg in the city and 40 mpg highway. The 40 mpg highway rating was about 38 last year and the 40 is the latest claim. I think you can do as well and have more comfort. An environmentally concerned neighbor has a Smart car and a Prius. The Prius easily has the best mileage and they fight over who gets to drive it because the Smart is not very comfortable and sucks up more gas. So smaller does not necessarily equate to better mileage. There was a surge in the popularity of Fiats in this country in the early seventies and sales were brisk among young people. It didn't last long because the quality was horrible and they rusted like crazy in the north. The quality could be better now, time will tell. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 03/08/13 at 06:45:16 I don't get the Prius at all. Why bother with batteries that are horribly expensive to replace after a few years? If mileage is your main goal, why not just go diesel, like a VW Golf diesel? Mileage is actually better, and srevice life can't be beat. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 03/08/13 at 06:47:35 Cavi Mike - Glad to see that you are such a gentleman in your choice of verbage in your response. I'm sure that your vast experience outpaces mine, so, whatever you say. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by PerrydaSavage on 03/08/13 at 10:55:44 A good friend of mine works at a local Chrysler/Fiat dealership and he sez that the new 500s are waaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of the quality of the older Fiats from decades past ... the new Fiat 500 is at least as reliable as most subcompact imports on the North American market today and have a decent warranty as well ... If I were interested in one, I wouldn't let the reputation of 1970's era Fiats sway my decision ... |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 03/08/13 at 11:04:55 Perry - That's what I've heard from a Chrysler dealer who is a client and a friend. So, the days of Fix It Again, Tony are behind us. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by LostArtist on 03/08/13 at 13:03:51 232C202A212C272B2C3B2E2C3B490 wrote:
the battery thing on the prius is a mostly a myth Quote:
http://lauratoyota.com/dispelling-prius-myths/ toyota will also offer recycling services for the battery. it's kinda like complaining about transmissions, if they go bad they'll cost a pretty penny to replace too now a Diesel might still be better for the environment overall though |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Cavi Mike on 03/09/13 at 03:59:43 3B34383239343F333423363423510 wrote:
I'm a blue-collar layman that couldn't care less about your feelings. I don't play politics and I don't kiss ass. What's right is right and what's wrong is wrong no matter how silver the tongue. You might wanna wake up to that fact. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Oldfeller on 03/09/13 at 05:34:51 Until our EPA realizes that the same exact rules cannot be applied to both gas cars and diesels we won't see any diesels to speak of here in America because they can't meet the gas style EPA emissions rules. (they are different types of engines after all) Europe has some very nice high MPG diesel cars now, and we don't. But Europe also has a whole bank of specific to diesel rules that do the same thing to diesels as the gas rules do to the gas cars. And folks do like to keep pointing out that 60mpg diesels in Europe actually do pollute less than our 40mpg American cars do based on volume of bad stuff coming out the exhaust pipe. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Serowbot on 03/09/13 at 07:19:13 Cheerios stale this morning, Cavi?... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by HondaLavis on 03/09/13 at 18:47:25 Have you thought about the Subaru BRZ? Small, but still some decent space, good mpg (25/34 with the 6 spd auto), and it's a fun ride! Just a thought. ;) |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Gyrobob on 03/10/13 at 01:58:26 Since the ex-girlfriend and I drive less than 10 miles for 80% of our cage trips, my next car will be a plug-in hybrid. I'll not be using any gas at all most of the time. The expenses for providing energy to drive from place to place will be the equivalent of well over 100 mpg. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by PerrydaSavage on 03/10/13 at 05:35:22 If I could afford to buy a Hybrid, I would ... but like most I expect, Hybrids are largely still not cost-effective for my driving needs ... The auto-makers need to get serious with a diesel-electric hybrid passenger car for the North American market. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Trippah on 03/11/13 at 15:25:08 Some good points...and driving a MGB back n the 60's, I almost bought a fiat but there was no dealer near by. Really liked the Peugot when I had to go to station wagons but again no dealer near by. Since I'm in greater syracuse for a couple of years, at least the Fiat dealer is less than 1/2 hr away, and i have time (retired) so I'm giving it some thought. Will test drive one this week hopefully to see if they are at all comfortable (for a small car). ;D I noted in another thread somewhere, a driver was have a trannny seal issue and was inquiring about lemon laaw, but wanted to replace the Fiat with another Fiat (likes the car)> I will see the Suby next week....no need to rush the shopping expewrience. ;) |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Boofer on 03/11/13 at 21:26:55 Just to throw in some real world mileage figures. I got rid of a Taurus I absolutely hated that got 32 mpg on 450 mile trips to the Gulf. I have a Grand Prix that has come down from 30 to 27mpg, so plugs and wires laying on shop bench. Breather is fine. 3.8 liter. Ford was v6 3.0 Vulcan engine. Comfortable cars. Seemed safe. I had a Mazda 4 cyl before that with about the same mileage iirc. Small and not comfortable, but great car until transmission went out as my wrecker friend kept telling me. But I got it for a good price and trans went out at 186,000. Bought daughter a Mazda b3000 ex cab pu. 20 mpg 5 speed. And to Perry's point, I agree. People making a living wage with price increases we have cannot gamble on a $40,000 experiment. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by mpescatori on 03/13/13 at 06:29:15 This thread started with the new FIAT 500 and went on to discuss other - yet related - issues. My humble contribution, if I may (after all, I'n Italian, it's "my" FIAT we're talking about ;)) FIAT engines are on par with Peugeot for reliability and sturdiness. Let's not get all hot about "this Nissan" and "that Toyota" and "my Mazda", I'm talking about European cars with European engines running in a European environment where everyone races everyone else at the lights and you will see a golfcart-size baby racer with a puny 4-cyl 600cc engine porking out a good 40bhp... that was FIAT Abarth in the 1950s. I quoted FIAT and Peugeot because anywhere you go in European countryside, whenever you see a 40-50 year old jalopy driven by Grandma Duck or Gus Goose... be reassured it's a Peugeot or a FIAT!!! FIAT's current CEO and his predecessor got FIAT out of trouble... literally pulling it by the hair !!! What we have today is a range of motor vehicles which are extremely high tech, extremely reliable ("Chrysler reliable", I don't know how that sounds to you but the slogan works over here!) and with the traditional Italian style for flair and design. As for mileage... depends on the engine: Italian 500s come with a 1200cc rated at 60bhp, a 1400cc rated at 85 or 100bhp, and the "Abarth" with or without turbocharger, rated at... how much did you say you will pay? THAT powerful ! So, a 190+bhp FIAT 500 WILL smoke any musclecar anywhere except for the 1/4 mile and the full mile. Breakfast in San Francisco and lunch in Los Angeles, driving Highway 1 along the coast? The 500 driver will have the barbecue ready and the the Chevy driver will still be buying steaks ;) Not to mention the twisty roads in New England, the Appalachians or the Rocky Mountains. DIESELS ? Who wants diesels ??? YOU DO ! Consider this: 1.a. you will need 2 - 3 barrels of crude oil to obtain one barrel (50-55 gals) of diesel&kerosene (50 - 65% loss); 1.b. refine that a second time, and with a similar 50-60% loss you obtain gasoline. 2.a. if you can get 40mpg from any kind of gasoline car... the similar displacement, similar bhp diesel engine will deliver at least 60mpg! Sooo Putting these three statements into one sentence... - 1 barrel of crude (55 gals) will give you never more than 25% gasoline (13 gals) which at 40mpg = 520 miles; - 1 barrel of crude (55 gals) will give you at least 50% diesel (26 gals) which at 60 mpg = 1560 miles. So... why waste the national oil bill by getting less miles with more fuel ??? :-/ ;) |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by PerrydaSavage on 03/13/13 at 07:45:26 mpescatori, those are some very, very interesting figures of diesel vs gasoline vs amt. of oil used to refine each and the resulting mpg ... why the whole-scale switch to diesel hasn't happened is beyond me? Especially as the current technology allows much, much cleaner burning diesel engines than in the past ... Maybe 'cause if diesel-powered passenger vehicles were more widespread here in North America, there'd be a lot of boot-legged, bio-diesel being produced out in the country away from prying Federal eyes?? |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by WD on 03/13/13 at 10:03:22 Lisa wants the 500 convertible to replace her deceased (finally, good riddance) 95 Outback wagon. Even though we have a perfectly good Super Beetle in the barn that just needs a hot battery and licensing. MP- Chrysler reliable? Since when, they haven't made a decent car since 1969, a decent truck since 1971... :-? The puny 2.2L turbo versions of the Daytona were tolerable econo-boxes, but... they can't hold a candle to a rwd V8 or even an ancient flathead 6 cylinder rwd platform. The common perception of diesel is still noisy, dirty and stink. Hard to overcome a rep earned by on road heavy truck tractors and VW Rabbits... ;D |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/13/13 at 10:15:34 Pesci said DIESELS ? Who wants diesels ??? YOU DO ! Consider this: 1.a. you will need 2 - 3 barrels of crude oil to obtain one barrel (50-55 gals) of diesel&kerosene (50 - 65% loss); 1.b. refine that a second time, and with a similar 50-60% loss you obtain gasoline. 2.a. if you can get 40mpg from any kind of gasoline car... the similar displacement, similar bhp diesel engine will deliver at least 60mpg! Sooo Putting these three statements into one sentence... - 1 barrel of crude (55 gals) will give you never more than 25% gasoline (13 gals) which at 40mpg = 520 miles; - 1 barrel of crude (55 gals) will give you at least 50% diesel (26 gals) which at 60 mpg = 1560 miles. So... why waste the national oil bill by getting less miles with more fuel ??? &, While I did not know that, I did know it was more efficient use of oil. I had no idea it was that big of a difference, tho. & Yes, Ive wanted diesel in the USA... & WHY is it not happening? The oil companies have a LOT to lose if Americans suddenly needed that much less oil.. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by Oldfeller on 03/13/13 at 10:28:44 Did you know that a diesel engine can burn ANY liquid fuel that will pass through its injector nozzles? Alcohol counts, as does direct injected natural gas. Injector nozzles are just fast acting on off valves -- a computer tells it when to inject (advance) and how much volume and how long to let the flow continue. Smart "any fuel" vehicles are possible right now using current technology. Yup, check out flex fuel cars in Brazil, where alcohol is king and bio-diesel / bio-alcohol natural gas cars are the flex fuel cars of the future. Alcohol only vehicles run best at 17:1 compression, which is the low end of the normal diesel range (which is generally 20:1). Natural gas can be metered at the cylinder head by injectors and this has been done for decades now on stationary marine and generator products. Gasoline is inefficient to produce all right, but our auto industry pivots on it now and they are very resistant to change in the USA that will invalidate the last 10 years of production investment. =========== Who builds most of the Brazilian flex fuel vehicles? Ford of Brazil. Last year diesel cars in Europe became more of the market than the gasoline cars. In Brazil, all cars are flex fuel by law (really flex fuel from 100% gas to 100% alcohol). Why can't we buy a good gas mileage affordable car? Politics and lobbying. |
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Title: Re: Fiat 500 (NGC) Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/13/13 at 10:44:32 Why can't we buy a good gas mileage affordable car? Politics and lobbying. Ayyyyup,,, Thats what I was gettin at. OIl companies dont want efficiency for us. They make bazillions selling us gasoline, & what Pesci showed us? Can you imagine the decline in income? Shazzam! |
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