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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Messed up my caliper ... need help! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1360685442 Message started by denistheruski on 02/12/13 at 08:10:41 |
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Title: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by denistheruski on 02/12/13 at 08:10:41 Well, I was changing the front brake pads in a hurry last weekend and instead of mounting the caliper so that the rotor sat in between the pads, I put it back on with both pads on the same side! Ugh! Serves me right for doing this for the first time in a rush. Anyway, I rode it around for about 20 - 25 min and noticed that I was getting slightly less braking power but thought that was normal since the pads have to be broken in. Finally, I came to a light and the front brake basically stopped giving me any braking force at all. Pulled over and kicked myself for what I'd done. I re-mounted the caliper correctly and rode home. But now, I don't seem to get any braking power out of the front brake at all. I can push the handle all the way down and still roll the bike forward. So it looks like part of the caliper (circled in the picture attached), which was rubbing against the rotor when I was braking, actually melted onto the rotor itself and is now deformed. I'm thinking that I need to buy a new caliper assembly, bleed the system, and put the new one on. Does that sound right? And can I just sand off the junk that melted onto my rotor (picture in next post)? Any and all help appreciated. Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by denistheruski on 02/12/13 at 08:13:26 Here's a close up of the rotor with the metal that melted on. |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by denistheruski on 02/12/13 at 08:16:11 Here's another photo where you can see the part of the caliper that was rubbing against the rotor. |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/12/13 at 08:30:31 The "Hockey Puck" that presses the pad against the rotor didnt get it? Id think that thing would be toast,,Id expect to see that replaced, I couldnt make out what part youre saying rubbed & galled onto the rotor, but, the rotor itself should save. Maybe you can do it yourself. I think I could. If you touch it w/ the grinder in a spot or 2, Id say no biggee.. but if you gouge it up & haul hunks of it out, could lead to warping & naturally, slightly decreased brake surface. Id hold the grinder disk so it left whatever marks its gonna leave as close to In Line with the path of the pads as possible as opposed to working across the path of the pads on the disk. Im gonna look at the pics again,, Okay,, NOW I get it, ya got the pads on the hockey puck side,, Now the question is, is the caliper worn off square or at a taper? That edge supports the pad & presses it against the rotor square & straight. YOu may see decreased performance until the brake pad has worn itself to fit between caliper & rotor unless you can shim it. It may not be enough to sweat. Put it together after the rotor is cleaned up & hit the brakes & look for a gap between rotor & pad. May not be near as bad as youre thinking, |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by Oldfeller on 02/12/13 at 10:15:41 Be of good cheer, your goof isn't as bad as you think it is. It ain't fatal and it has been done before (me and Toymaker did it to his bike). It required no replacement parts and only an hour of filing, etc. Simply file the aluminium legs that melted on to the rotor until they are flat again. It is aluminium, so it files pretty quick and easy with a large coarse flat file. Toymaker and I ran out of patience and his weren't perfectly flat and square so it held his fixed pad slightly cocked and the face of the pad wore in that way to be true to the rotor and once worn in it worked perfectly for like 5-6 years (until next set of pads). Actually, it worked perfectly almost at once since we immediately went on a Dragon Run and he lived .... He only lost the amount that it was off square from his total pad life. Plus, next set of pads you can always file some more to get it better square if you want to. The stuff stuck to the rotor is really stuck on there so peel off what you can with a razor blade (use a scraper holder) and lightly hand sand what the razor blade can't remove just to blend in the edges some. You do not have to get it all off -- what remains will wear off quickly due to natural brake pad / rotor wear. It will be GONE in a week. ========== dirty thought if you don't like filing Rough up the surface of the erroded arms until JB will adhere to it well. Mix up some can type (thick) JB Weld and apply it thickly to the aluminium arms tips that are currently eroded. It needs to stand positive to the uneroded part of the machined surface. Wait a bit until the JB is starting to thicken up and get almost stiff, then lay some aluminium foil over the JB paste (to provide a release point) then put your brake pads back in place, assemble the brakes and very carefully squeeze the brakes just enough for the JB to be pushed even with the still true machined surface. Release hand pressure and leave for 24 hours ..... 24 hours takes a long time, don't it? Take your pocket knife and trim the excess aluminium foil away. If you want, you can file the JB ooze so everything matches up. You now got you a custom "true to your rotor" fit again. (hey, grab a part of the rotor that doesn't have any lumps on it, OK?) |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by verslagen1 on 02/12/13 at 10:18:15 You've obviouisly worn the backside of the caliper. I'm gonna assume it's opened up and possibly not square anymore since just putting everything in the right place didn't fix it. So replacing the caliper is probably your best bet. |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by denistheruski on 02/12/13 at 12:02:10 Thanks, JOG. You got it, the pads were together on the side of the "hockey puck". And thanks for the reassurance - definitely felt like a dummy as soon as I figured out what had happened. What I don't understand is why can I now push the lever all the way down and still be able to roll the bike? |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by Cavi Mike on 02/12/13 at 12:23:15 Ouch. You lost quite a bit of metal from the caliper - I'd just start looking for a replacement especially if you're having a hard time even getting it to work. |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/12/13 at 15:34:09 Did you loosen the hose while working on the brakes? |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by denistheruski on 02/12/13 at 17:44:02 Thanks, all. OldFeller, I like your advice on filing down the caliper - this would save me the money/time to buying a new caliper. I think I'll try this first before replacing it completely, if necessary. The only thing I don't understand is why, with everything in the right place, I can push the lever all the way down. JOG - no, I didn't purposely loosen the hose. And I didn't need to remove or add any fluid from the master cylinder. |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by Oldfeller on 02/12/13 at 18:05:05 Answer one quick question, is the piston in the caliper actually moving at the exact same whole time the lever is moving? If the lever moves and the piston isn't moving at any point in the stroke, you got air in your system. If so, then you need to bleed the brakes to correct your issue. Likely you need to check again that all the pieces are in place correctly and then bleed your brakes to get full hydraulic pressure back. |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by Digger on 02/12/13 at 18:38:00 denis, You've probably already done this, but you can expect that it will take several pumps of the brake lever to move the slave piston out far enough to squeeze the pad against the rotor. If you pump more than, oh, 20 times with no joy, it's time to look elsewhere. Good luck! |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/13/13 at 10:11:39 Yea, I remember the day I slapped pads on a car at a friends house.I didnt pump to get a pedal, drove away, ran the first stop sign in an absolute PANIC! Ive learned Quite a Bit in the years since. When we press the puck in to make room for pads & rotor we hafta work the brakes till the pads press against the rotor before we have brakes again,. |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by denistheruski on 02/15/13 at 16:39:03 OK, so I'm still a newbie at this. What's the difference between bleeding the system and simply draining the fluid out of the hose and then refilling it through the master cylinder? |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by ZAR on 02/15/13 at 19:22:48 61606B6C76716D607770766E6C050 wrote:
short & sweet answer? Bleeding removes any air that gets into the system ;D. Draining and refilling without bleeding can introduce air into the system :( . |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/15/13 at 21:17:13 & may cause bleeding. |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by Oldfeller on 02/16/13 at 06:18:44 RidgeRunner's method BLEEDING BRAKES. I've been working on bikes since before they had disc brakes. I usually drain & refill mine at least once a year so I've had lots of practice. I get a length of 3/16" clear tubing long enough to reach from the bleeder screw to the master cylinder. I fill the m/c, put the hose on the bleeder screw & open it about 1/2 turn & hold the free end of the tubing in the fluid in the m/c reservoir. Keeping the free end down in the fluid, I slowly pump the brake lever until I have a solid stream of fluid in the hose. I then close the bleeder screw & remove the hose from the bleeder. If you clamp the hose just above the bleeder before you take it off, you won't even make a mess. This has always worked for me & gives the firmest lever of all the methods I've used for years. It works because when you release the lever, it will draw fluid into the hose & not air, & when you squeeze the lever the air will bubble out. Just keep the free end IN THE FLUID so you don't draw air in. Between my 2 bikes & my friends, I do this several times a year. It even works for rear disc brakes too, as I found out when I did my V-Star 950 the first time. I first came up with this idea in 1980 when I put a disc brake front end from a '72 Norton Commando on my '70. After spendng a frustrating day going through the m/c & caliper, cleaning & rebuilding both, I still couldn't get it to work. I tried this & was done in 15 minutes. You don't forget what works when you've been as frustrated as I was that day. =================== SimonTuffGuy's method You need to loosen the bleeder screw on caliper itself... If you've never done it before, find someone to help you... These are your BRAKES and you need them to work correctly. The process is... Attach a hose (I used aquarium hose from the local pet shop) to the nipple of the bleeder on the caliper. Loosen the bleeder screw, with the reservoir filled (I always put the cap/lid back on, didn't screw it, but laid on top - I also propped the bike up so that master cylinder was level), pump the brake lever 4 to 5 times, hold the lever in and tighten the bleeder screw... Let out on the brake lever. Loosen the screw, pump 4 to 5 times, tighten the screw, let out on the brake lever. Repeat this until you have a full stream of brake fluid coming out of the tube with NO BUBBLES... Remember to keep the reservoir filled, as you'll be draining it when bleeding. I had to add fluid 4 or 5 times during my bleeding. Things to keep in mind... Do not close the bleeder screw with the brake lever OUT... And do not open it with the brake lever pulled in. Again... If you don't know what you're doing... Get someone that does to help you. These are things that you don't want to fail when you need them. ===================== Oldfeller's variant on the same old trick, used when changing out brake fluid (which you should do every year or so, BTW) Changing the fluid out on your front brakes for a brand new person totally unused to bike mechanical work takes on the order of a half hour of time, with 1 helper mebbe required during the last little bit when you are manipulating the bleed valve while under pressure. Paladin, do you stick a piece of clear tubing on the end of your bleeder valve nipple so you can clearly see your air bubbles stopping and starting and so you can clearly see when you fluid becomes all nice and clean and new? This is important when you are changing out your brake fluid when it gets all nasty on you. Some get all fancy going back up to the handle bars with the tubing, but I find that several feet of the same tubing going down to the floor then over and rising up over the edge of a catch bowl does the exact same job, and if you are changing out all the brake fluid you are going to need that catch bowl for all the yuky brake fluid. I find that a like 3 feet of clear tubing, once it becomes full of fluid, it also acts as a check valve for the return stroke. I pump down by myself (spending my attention up top keeping the reservoir nice and full) and when I see a clear fluid stream in the tube (and no air bubbles) I finger tighen the valve until it will just barely pass fluid and give it a resistance squeeze or two at the lever and on the last one I clinch the bleeder valve off in mid stroke with my foot to make durn sure no air can get in on the return stroke. (cause there ain't no return stroke, it got pinched off while I was still pushing) So, using some clear tubing to act as your "check valve" can allow you to do it by yourself with complete assurance you have no air in your system. NOW HERE IS THE SUBTLE TRICK THAT MARKS THE EXPERT. You AWAYS make durn sure the threads on the brake slave cylinder nipple are plumb full of brake fluid by loosening the nipple a goodly bit at the very first, stoppering it off with your finger and then pressure pumping at it with the brake lever until you note that brake fluid is coming out the threads. The threads are now plumb full of air free brake fluid. So now you finger tighten it back up to the point it just barely is passing fluid and start back to pumping. Now put the clear hose on and follow everybody's best method to pump your master cylinder and brake lines full of clean bubble free brake fluid, knowing that no air can make it back through all the fluid in the clear tubing and the fluid that is trapped inside that long continuous spiral of fluid filled thread intersection on the nipple threads. You don't need no expensive speed bleeders or other extra money gizmos, just a piece of clear tubing and a little trick or two. |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/16/13 at 06:43:28 & Never,,, I mean Never EVer let that master cylinder run out of fluid. Getting that fluid to drop into that tiny hole & into the pump area is a real hassle. |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by denistheruski on 02/16/13 at 07:53:25 Wow the information I learn on this forum never ceases to amaze me! Really appreciate all that, OldFeller. I'm thinking of just buying a used caliper on eBay. I found a few for around $40. So when I go to install the new caliper, will the procedure pretty much be the same? I'll attach clear hose to the bleeder screw, fill the MC with fluid and start pumping and refilling the MC until I start to see fluid coming through the hose. Then, I can use one of these methods that OldFeller posted to make sure I have an air-free system. Am I on the right track here? Is there anything special about putting a new caliper on? |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/16/13 at 07:59:26 Just take that opportunity to clean & lube the pins it moves on & make sure the caliper youre putting in is clean there. & dont let the fluid drain out of the hose & drain the master cylinder. Get the hose off, then UP & secure it & Brake Fluid absolutely Eats Paint, so, keep it offa the bike, OHH, & put one pad on one side, & the OTher pad,,, on the Other side,,of the rotor,, mmkay? Can we do that this time? Hmmm? |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by denistheruski on 02/16/13 at 08:44:46 We can certainly try ... Thanks JOG. |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/16/13 at 09:56:50 Well,, that would Most Certainly be a really really good thing to try really really hard I do think, yes I do,,, & you need to read that in your very best Church Lady voice, yes you do.. |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by Digger on 02/16/13 at 20:36:01 11323A383B32323B2C5E0 wrote:
The bleeder screw/brake lever dance outlined above is a bit different than the way I usually do it. I generally, with the bleed screw shut, pump the brake lever a few times, then hold it squeezed. While still squeezing said lever, I crack the bleed screw a bit. Brake fluid then "shoots" out of said bleed screw's nipple under quite a bit of force. I can feel the lever go all the way closed when this happens. Then, with the brake lever still fully squeezed, I close said bleed screw. Then, and only then, do I let the brake lever come back out to its fully extended position. Repeat until no more air bubbles are seen. IHTH someone! |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by hexnut on 02/17/13 at 05:24:28 :( |
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Title: Re: Messed up my caliper ... need help! Post by Digger on 02/17/13 at 19:18:24 757D626574667063652120110 wrote:
Those things work even better if you take the time to wrap some Teflon tape around (or otherwise treat) the threads of the bleed nipples. I used to use a Mityvac for this job, but got tired of the little air bubbles that alway used to appear due to less-than-airtight bleed nipple threads. Since I was always too lazy to properly treat said threads, I just went back to the old-school way of bleeding my brakes. YMMV! |
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