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Message started by DavidOfMA on 01/30/13 at 09:23:31

Title: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by DavidOfMA on 01/30/13 at 09:23:31

Warmer day today, morning off, wanted to take my bike out for an hour or so. It's been very cold here (down to 4F), then warmer and rainy. Took the bike cover off, lots of condensation. Tried to start it, no juice at all. Battery is completely flat. Couldn't push start it, either.

I don't think it naturally discharged, as I usually ride for a good hour and it started fine last time I rode, 10 days ago. More likely some kind of short, possibly related to the condensation. Charging the battery now, but if the bike does have a short and the charge won't hold, where do I start looking?

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by hexnut on 01/30/13 at 09:44:18

gone fishing

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by Dave on 01/30/13 at 10:32:37

Don't know about your electrical problem - but I can comment on condensation. When your bike gets cold, really cold.....and then the air gets warm and/or rainy....your bike is going to get soaked under a cover. The bike is cold and the warmer, humid air allows moisture in the air to condense on the cold surfaces. Some surfaces will warm up quickly (seat, pegs, grips, levers) - but the heavier stuff (engine, fuel in tank, frame, wheel hubs) will take a long time to warm up and will stay wet for a long time. You need a cover that is vented or can breath to allow the moisture not to become trapped under the cover.

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by DavidOfMA on 01/30/13 at 13:01:31

Any suggestions for a cover that will protect against rain and snow but at the same time breathe enough to protect against condensation? These seem like opposite requirements. (I have no garage and bike is parked in the driveway protected only by the cover.)

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by DavidOfMA on 01/30/13 at 13:04:07

4048575041534556501415240 wrote:

I have to be careful about turning mine to off instead of park. The key will come out in both positions only in park the tail light is on.

The first of the month I went to start mine and the battery was dead after sitting 10 days. It was the battery that came in it and only 9 months old. I could charge it and it would go back down with two revolutions of the engine.

I bought a new Yuasa AGM maint free battery, Man that thing rocks. I have had no further problems.

Oh yeah, I have never had one to run down due to condensation but I guess anything is possible.

A battery that just died is a cheaper problem than trying to sort out an electrical problem. Hope that's all it is. If so, I'll go with your battery recommendation. Battery is about 10 months old.

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by hexnut on 01/30/13 at 13:36:23

gone fishing

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by verslagen1 on 01/30/13 at 14:14:31

although I don't think it's a problem, but a few here had their decomp controler fill up with water causing it to corrode and fail. And I believe that's a circuit that's on all the time.

I'd double check the amperage in the off condition.

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by DavidOfMA on 01/30/13 at 15:06:28

53405756494442404B14250 wrote:

Thanks. Where is it and how would I check to see if it's causing a battery drain?

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by WD on 01/30/13 at 15:22:26

Little black box on a rubber bracket attached to the frame over the top of the carburetor. Right where water can roll down the tank and into the connector plug. Which isn't sealed (and the looks sealed but is not sealed relay sucks in water like a dry sponge). Thank you Suzuki for another cut rate cop out part...

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by ZAR on 01/30/13 at 19:17:57

4A591D0 wrote:

WD I have not had mine apart to see how it's made so a question........is it possible to seal the controller with RTV silicon or liquid electrical tape without causing overtemp or shorting issues?

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by DavidOfMA on 01/31/13 at 13:49:24

253621203F3234363D62530 wrote:

Battery won't take a full charge and seems to have a shorted cell, so maybe that's the only problem I'm having - or maybe a short killed the battery. Checked the resistance between + and ground and it seems to be about 1000 ohms. If I remember Ohm's law correctly, that's only a 12 milliamp drain, which isn't much. Anyone know what the circuit resistance should be? Can't check the amperage as I don't have a functioning battery (though I guess I could hook the bike up to my car battery to check, if the resistance check is not reliable).

The only thing I did between shutting the bike off 10 days ago and trying to start it up was spray corrosion protectant on the metal surfaces. Seems unlikely it's a conductor, but if 1000 ohms is abnormal I'll look for places I may have created a short while I'm waiting for the battery recommended here to arrive.

Thanks!

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by WD on 01/31/13 at 19:05:57

Dielectric grease should seal up the spade terminals where they come out of the very thin later of epoxy in the relay body. As for sealing the connector to relay junction... haven't found a way yet. Deleted it on mine, deleting the decompression solenoid and switching to a choke cable off a Harley. Less electrical nonsense to go wrong. Deleting the switch boxes is almost finished as well...

Wish it was that easy to add ignition points on a breaker plate off the cam end, or add a real kick starter. And a real coil with changeable plug wire instead of the untized plastic blob that passes as a coil/wire combo... >:(

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by ZAR on 01/31/13 at 19:20:48

5C4F0B0 wrote:

Points and a kicker would be a plus!

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by WD on 02/01/13 at 00:09:26

I'd say I'm showing my age, but, since I'm only ( ::)) 40... Both Hondas have points, one (1963) is for sure kick only (with DUAL points), the 1971 I can't remember how it is set up (other than single point). I've had later model Yammerscammer XSs... I don't trust CDI boxes... ;)

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by Digger on 02/01/13 at 18:31:07

I grew up with points. Spent a few afternoons in camp filing and adjusting same (remember the dollar bill trick?).

Glad to see 'em go.....JMHO!

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by ZAR on 02/01/13 at 18:39:18

786B2F0 wrote:

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by Digger on 02/01/13 at 19:07:05

001B085A0 wrote:

[quote author=786B2F0 link=1359566612/0#13 date=1359706166]I'd say I'm showing my age, but, since I'm only ( ::)) 40... Both Hondas have points, one (1963) is for sure kick only (with DUAL points), the 1971 I can't remember how it is set up (other than single point). I've had later model Yammerscammer XSs... I don't trust CDI boxes... ;)

WD you're still a babe in the woods son ;). But you hit on one of the reasons I have not let the old Kawa KZ440 LTD go yet. It's a 1980(last year for points on the KZ series)I'm hanging on in case of an EMP incident.

Digger I remember the dollar bill points cleaning well! Spent many a time along a dark country road doing that trick just to get back to town.
[/quote]

Yep, and you could also statically set the timing using the same dollar bill!

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by ZAR on 02/01/13 at 19:12:24

133E30303225570 wrote:

[quote author=001B085A0 link=1359566612/15#15 date=1359772758][quote author=786B2F0 link=1359566612/0#13 date=1359706166]I'd say I'm showing my age, but, since I'm only ( ::)) 40... Both Hondas have points, one (1963) is for sure kick only (with DUAL points), the 1971 I can't remember how it is set up (other than single point). I've had later model Yammerscammer XSs... I don't trust CDI boxes... ;)

Title: Re: Condensation and short circuits?
Post by WD on 02/02/13 at 08:16:05

They'd get a kick out of our place... wind up a hand crank, drop a metal arm on a black plastic round thing and music comes out of it... I think the "NEW" record player is a 1926 model...

Or there's the truck I can leave the ignition key in because even I've forgotten how to start the thing. Set the hand choke cable, set the hand throttle, turn on the key, find the stock starter pedal and hope it decides to start instead of just crank over and kill the 6v battery... ;D