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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> OIL WAR -- Change Frequency /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1358794826 Message started by Bock on 01/21/13 at 11:00:26 |
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Title: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by Bock on 01/21/13 at 11:00:26 I've seen topics about "oil wars". I'm not here to start that topic. I bought my first bike this past summer. The guy I bought it from said it had an oil change that would last the "riding season". However, it is now January and I have not changed it yet. I'm attempting to do it myself. I've never done anything mechanical...EVER. My questions are: How often should I change my oil? Should I be careful in riding my bike in cold weather? I live in Illinois and I've rode it in 20+ degree weather. Could this damage my bike? How long should I let my engine warm up before riding? Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!!! |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by oldNslow on 01/21/13 at 12:00:50 Owner's manual reccomends changing oil and filter every 3500 miles or every 12 months, whichever comes first. Cold temps themselves won't hurt your bike, but there are some things to be aware of. Road salt won't do it any good. Black ice can be an issue. If you are cold and are preoccupied with how unconfortable you are you might not be as attentive as necessary to ride safely. As soon as the engine will idle without the choke and you can roll on the throttle without any stumble or hesitation you can ride away. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by jcstokes on 01/21/13 at 12:04:17 Handbook recommends oil and filter changes every 6000km or 4000 miles. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Oldfeller on 01/21/13 at 12:06:27 If you use a recommended synthetic oil, you can run a once a year oil change frequency with no sweat and no fears. You can change the oil filter every second oil change if you use a good synthetic oil (you are not having to filter out clumps of sludged oil and oil breakdown by products when using a good synthetic). Recommended oils listing: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565 Booster blend table: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1345080430 |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by jcstokes on 01/21/13 at 12:10:26 Go to page 8 of the tech section and read oil change time by savage rob, it's at the bottom of the page. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Oldfeller on 01/21/13 at 12:13:20 See, Kinder and Gentler, Kinder and Gentler ..... [smiley=engel017.gif] [smiley=engel017.gif] JC, Rob wrote that tech a long time ago, long before the car & bike oils began to be neutered by the auto and motorcycle industry to support cat converters (which most modern bikes now do have, and we do not have). Even Rob goes with a good synthetic oil now days, he used to use Mobil 1 V-twin for a while but he may have changed on that, he can say if he happens to read this. What is currently good with Savage oils changes every time a new JASO standard comes out, and with the last one most of our "good to go" oils jumped up and went. So we keep a constantly updated "recommended listing" now. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Bock on 01/21/13 at 12:54:30 Sounds like I should keep in mind a booster blend to help the engine out... |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by hexnut on 01/21/13 at 14:03:01 gone fishing |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by WD on 01/21/13 at 15:34:47 Whenever you think it needs it. My 98 Savage leaks almost as much as my 69 Dodge 318 V8 or my 49 Dodge 218 L6. I change the filter every once in awhile, keep it topped off as needed, if the crankcase stinks I change the oil. Used to change it every 3 months like clockwork, got tired of throwing out dark amber oil. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Gyrobob on 01/21/13 at 15:58:26 I got this directly from Shell Oil Co chem engineers: If you let the oil get all the way warmed up and hold it there for 10 or 15 minutes, synthetic oil like Rotella T6 lasts way beyond oil change intervals that manufacturers have to use to cover their posterior. -- The idea is to evaporate away any of the condensations in the oil that get there from just sitting and from that several minutes on each ride when the motor is warming up. -- Get the oil all the way warmed up, and hold it there for a while,.. you cause the stuff that causes goop, muck, and other yuck to go away. -- They all typically run their cars and motorcycles more than double the oil change intervals used by the manufacturers. -- They say that unless the oil gets damaged, it takes forever to actually wear it out. --- If it gets mucked up by not getting up to temp frequently, that'll shorten the life. --- If the motor has some sort of an overheat where the oil gets cooked, that might also cause some oil damage. Otherwise, you are simply wasting money by changing as often as the manufacturer wants, and wasting HUGE money if you believe the old wives' tales about oil changes every 1000 miles or so as being good for a motor. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Charon on 01/22/13 at 06:21:18 Some years back I had a Suzuki Tempter GR650. I worked about 3/4 mile from home, and used the bike to commute. Cool weather came along, but I still used the bike. Then one day I chanced to look at the oil check window (that bike had a centerstand, making oil checking exceptionally easy) and noticed the oil looked more like chocolate milk than oil. I figured the oil was contaminated with water from the short rides. I took the bike on a longer ride, ten or fifteen miles, including a couple or three miles at highway speed. When I got home, the oil looked normal again. Since then I make a point of riding any motorcycle at least ten miles before I put it away for more than overnight or so. I think the common practice of starting motorcycles for a few minutes every week or so during cold weather "to charge the battery" is a VERY BAD IDEA. Without being under load they never warm up correctly. Without air flow, especially on air-cooled engines, parts of the engine such as exhaust valves and seats can overheat while the rest of the engine remains cold. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Routy on 01/22/13 at 06:39:16 I'm not an oil expert, but I'm smart enuff to know that no one, including an owners manual, knows when you should change YOUR oil. There are too many variables. Heres Gospel,......just believe it....ok ? Change your oil when it gets dirty,....simple as that. For me, thats much sooner than 3-4K miles. If you have a Diesel, (motorcycle) that may be debatable. ;D |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by verslagen1 on 01/22/13 at 07:14:28 JOG will tell you... and so will I, the bike will tell when... it starts eatin' oil. On mine that's right around 2500 miles. So I change it at 2k. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/22/13 at 09:37:12 Yep. It starts using oil at a faster pace. Youll learn when its time in a good riding season. Put 12,000 on it in a year & youll know when to change it, |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Gyrobob on 01/22/13 at 12:35:06 2F203A213D3B282A222C3B490 wrote:
Routy, your advice is good for non-detergent oil. For any multi-viscosity oil made within the last half-century or so, the oil is supposed to get "dirty" fairly soon. These oils have detergents which keep the muck in suspension,.. they keep the muck from building up inside the motor. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by bill67 on 01/22/13 at 12:56:58 You guys sure got your oil problems :o |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Dave on 01/22/13 at 13:05:20 393237376D6C5B0 wrote:
No we really don't.......It just takes our mind off taxes! :o |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Boofer on 01/22/13 at 20:40:05 32213637282523212A75440 wrote:
I do not go over 2000 miles. I started out with Castrol Synthetic and had to keep adding up to a whole pint in 15-2000 miles. After being beaten into submission by my Rotella using friends in racing single cylinder KLRs and KTMs I noticed a quieter engine and almost no oil usage. The Castrol was used in a new to me bike with 7400 miles to about 12,000 mi then I changed to Rotella. Around 22,000 mi now and I try to do less drag starting, but I still like to twist it hard in fourth and run up to 80 in fifth just to feed my need for speed. Plus, I have not been able to put my 3500 mile average in 2012. I might just change it to feel connected again. Most of you will understand that feeling. :) |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by ralfyguy on 01/23/13 at 08:24:37 I usually go 1,500 between changes because of my short daily commute and the excrutiating hot summers here. 15 bux for a couple of bottles of T6 won't kill me financially. It may not be necessary, but it won't hurt anything either. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Oldfeller on 01/23/13 at 09:46:49 For those who like their data from 2008 and earlier (at least two standards changes ago) here is some about the 3 Mobil changes ago Mobil1 "red cap" version. the one everybody liked so much http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1502559 (I used to use Mobil1 "red cap" oils of this generation as my Walmart stocked it, and I was among the many thousands who felt betrayed when Mobil1 neutered that oil and then insulted us all greatly by NOT TELLING ANYONE that they had done it.) The real purpose of posting this is so you can feel sick to your stomach when your new version VOA comes back in and you can see what the oil USED TO BE compared to what it is today. ============================= Why can't you run a good synthetic oil for 10,000 miles? You could if ..... 1) you had a decent air filtration system on your Savage that kept the silica dust from building up in the oil. 2) you didn't have a wet sump clutch and a common gear box shearing up the oil 5x more compared to what a car ever sees. People who say they hit a point where oil consumption goes up noticeably are talking about the shear issue. And they have picked the limiting factor that mostly applies to them as shear and oil consumption will likely hit before enough dust (silica) contamination builds up to be an issue. I change the oil before going up to the Dragon as part of my general prep routine. This year I will change the oil filter out again and post again in the smagnet thread what sort of crap I see when I take it all apart and brake parts cleaner it out good. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/23/13 at 10:16:04 These things will last as long as Im gonna want it w/o making any great science project out of ( Angelic Voices holding a high note, singing "Aaaahhhhhh" ) The Oil. I run Rotella T Dino, El Cheapo filter & I watch the oil consumption. Ill bet that it would tear down & go thru an inspection & go right back in service. Soon as I solve the "Running like Crap" issue.. Gonna see about gettin that petcock today, maybe.,.IF I feel like messin with it, |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Oldfeller on 01/23/13 at 10:33:01 http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/wcsstore/CVWEB/staticproductimage//N4019C/large/8026541_mbi_98hc75_pri_larg.jpg Mobil1 4T has been re-done as Mobil1 RACING 4T, got itself a new package and a new FAQ for it that states the ZDDP level, which now exceeds MA or MA2 levels so they effectively lost the right to use the MA ratings (but they still have it in their advertising and somewhere on the bottle of course). ..... now which piece of conflicting advertising do we believe this time, Mobil1? Gist of the change is that the old standard "red cap" Mobil1 car oil is supposedly back with us again .... as a "racing only" motorcycle oil. So, for as long as this version/bottle style lasts before Mobil1 changes it on us without telling us -- it goes back on the approved list. (approved oil listing modified accordingly) So, the folks who like to buy $10 a quart oil have a new one to go looking for. Make sure you buy the right bottle, as there are 3-4 different Mobil 1 oil bottles out there in reality land to get confused between. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by rat907 on 01/23/13 at 18:28:03 Just a rule of thumb I use is change the filter every 6 months or 3000 miles. They're cheaper than a rebuild or a new clutch, cam, ect. If you live in the harsh climes like the desert go 2500 miles between changes. Oil is personal preference as to when to change it. If the oil is cloudy or changing color to darker, I replace it. it's the difference between tea and coffee, you can see through tea and fresh oil, you can't through coffee or bad oil. I've done these steps for over 30 years with autos & trucks and a minor over haul shows little no ecessive wear on the high wear parts. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Gyrobob on 01/24/13 at 03:51:43 7566733E3730070 wrote:
If your oil stays nice and clean (doesn't get darker in the first few hundred miles), get better oil. The detergent in your oil is not doing its job. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by DavidOfMA on 01/24/13 at 05:41:43 What's the list experience with Suzuki 4 Cycle Synthetic Racing Motorcycle Oil in this bike? Not knowing any better, that's what I have in there now. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by rat907 on 01/24/13 at 05:45:29 1729223F323F32500 wrote:
If your oil stays nice and clean (doesn't get darker in the first few hundred miles), get better oil. The detergent in your oil is not doing its job.[/quote] I use consistantly any, Pennzoil, Castrol, Mobil 1, Quaker State, Amzoil, ect., depending on the application and monetary situation. Whether its Dino or Syn, heat and legnth of operation plays a big factor. Darker isn't my concern, light transmission is and the time/miles it takes to defeat that along with particulates in the old oil. If your oil gets really dark to black in a short time, then theres a problem with the efficiancy of your motors operation and oil choice, not the cleaning qualities of detergent in the oil. I have done minor overhauls and found little to no excessive wear to high load parts, little to no varnish inside my engines and certainly no oil gunk globs in the recesses of the nooks and crannies. My way is my way and it works well for me, I just passed it on to those that haven't their own system and they can take it or leave it. 494F4242464F444349485F2D0 wrote:
I'm still learning myself, so far I have come up with 3 areas of concern. 1) high heat of an air cooled engine and maintaining lubricity. 2) wet clutch operation that doesn't promote/support slipping. 3) cam/rocker arm cushioning/decellerating wear. My background is automotive illegal street racing (possibly my efforts is why they have such strick laws against it). I am new to the single 4 stroke scene and I like this challenge to maximize efficiancy. Not all "racing" stuff is good for the daily street user, oils included. there are what many racers consider throw away items that are part of the game. If it holds out for one race or one high end run then its good. A racing oil is subjected to high load and high heat in a short amount of time. You can bet you bottom dollar that they get rid of it as soon as the race is over. Some of these oils never see the extremes in a daily driver and can be counter productive. So if your not running hard all the the time, the oil may just not be doing what its supposed to. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by bill67 on 01/24/13 at 09:05:01 78464D505D505D3F0 wrote:
If your oil stays nice and clean (doesn't get darker in the first few hundred miles), get better oil. The detergent in your oil is not doing its job.[/quote] Wrong again Gyro,If the oil is dirty your not getting a good ring to cylinder seal or getting to much engine wear.You should try a different oil. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by hexnut on 01/24/13 at 10:26:30 Most people think the dark color is in fact dirt, or carbon, Not always true, Most of the color you see is due to the oxidation of the additives in the oil due to the heat. I've found that with hot running engines that the oil darkens quicker. Thats in an engine in good operating condition. The cleaning ability of the oil on the engine will add to the darking as the oil gets older but is in no was harming the engine. Thats the oil doing what it was designed to do. Gas in the oil from a too rich carb, blow-bye form worn rings, and not changing the oil at the proper intervals will cause oil to get dark and dirty as well. You can't judge the oil by color. A used oil analysis is needed to tell whats really going on. It will also tell you how many miles you can go between oil changes as well. I don't necessarily agree with all of these but some interesting reads from bobistheoilguy.com http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1528239 |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by bill67 on 01/24/13 at 10:56:14 That bob is also the tire guy too.I wonder if theres anything he doesn't know. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by A-Bolt on 01/24/13 at 14:43:58 Hey, I smell the oil. If it smells burnt I then put some on a white paper towel and look at it. usually change it. In my truck I change the filter every oil change. My bike I got it used. I will be changing the filter @ every oil change. I just put in M1 t4. Going to try rotella T6. I'm thinking, that header pipe dont help the life span of are/s40 oil. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Gyrobob on 01/24/13 at 16:30:37 63686D6D3736010 wrote:
If your oil stays nice and clean (doesn't get darker in the first few hundred miles), get better oil. The detergent in your oil is not doing its job.[/quote] Wrong again Gyro,If the oil is dirty your not getting a good ring to cylinder seal or getting to much engine wear.You should try a different oil. [/quote] Wrong as usual, bill. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Routy on 01/24/13 at 19:07:14 Bill is right again, if yur oil get dark quick, all yur expression it going in yur crankase. Get it fixed,......cuz its broke !! |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Oldfeller on 01/25/13 at 04:47:45 I guess it's time to put WAR in the title of this thread (again) ...... Bill, are you skipping your surface bait for oil wars again? And the rest of you guys , are you really going to be baited by Bill yet again into yet another fruitless discussion of how dirty your real world oil gets in use vs the ever-red wonder oil? Pulezee ..... ::) (must be mid winter boredom again) ;D PS, I like Routy's thought -- if you are gonna talk to Bill on this one, you have to do it in his native tongue. If you can't speak in billish, you can't play. That will make you think your thoughts out good and then TRANSLATE your thoughts into Billish, which in turn will make it interesting/humorous for the rest of us to read. If you are a new person, now is the time to put on your standard issue Kevlar long johns and start digging your own personal fox hole .... oil war is about to occur yet again. :o |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Gyrobob on 01/25/13 at 06:25:18 0F2C2426252C2C2532400 wrote:
I'd comply with your request to translate into billish, but I am at a loss as to how one would translate correct and rational thought into worthess/incorrect assertions. ;) ;D :o ::) :) |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR --- Oil Change Frequency Post by bill67 on 01/25/13 at 09:17:32 Why is it in all jap cars and motorcycles the oil never got as dirty as American cars and motorcycles.Gyro maybe the American oil didn't know how to clean the jap vehicles. ::) |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR --- Oil Change Frequency Post by Charon on 01/25/13 at 09:42:43 Just remember that Bill is the self-proclaimed Expert on Everything. It isn't worth the effort to try to argue with him. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR --- Oil Change Frequency Post by arteacher on 01/25/13 at 09:42:53 52595C5C0607300 wrote:
What is your source for this info? |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by jcstokes on 01/25/13 at 10:43:24 Oldfeller, I refered Bock to the tech on page 8 of the tech section to show him the unbolting, bolting up sequence as Bock said he had never done it. I believe this tech is good for that purpose. Whether the tech can be modified to include current oil recommendations, I don't know. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by Oldfeller on 01/25/13 at 11:02:44 See, and you got rewarded with two angels for your kind thoughts and for being a "kinder and gentler" gentleman. (and in a proto oil war two angels is about as good as anyone has ever gotten, ever) But still, the new readers had to be reminded about the ever moving EPA driven neutering of the oils here in the USA and how our old comments (written back in the SJ era?) have to be taken with a grain of salt as we are currently in the absolutely nutless SN era and very few oils are actually good for a Savage any more. And I was overjoyed to find a new Mobil1 oil bottle with some data to back it up, and only found it mildly ironic that the old bone stock standard SJ era Mobil1 "red cap" specs can now only be sold today as a "Racing Only" oil. :) It sucks to have a 1970's designed valve train in 2013, really it does. And we do have to be careful about what we pour into our sumps or our tappets will dish out on us. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by Greg on 01/25/13 at 11:14:32 5D56535309083F0 wrote:
;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR --- Oil Change Frequency Post by Blinky on 01/25/13 at 12:04:48 606B6E6E3435020 wrote:
The answer is the obvious difference in cultural values. The Japanese take pride in cleanliness. That cultural value even applies to their motor oil. They invented a new form of internal combustion that does not produce oxidation, water, or carbon so the oil in their cars and motorcycles stays cleaner. 8-) My response is as much total nonsense as the question. Now, back to the first question about oil change intervals, given the likely service life of a Suzuki LS650, I would think the manufacturer's recommendation for oil changes would be more than adequate unless ridden in an extreme environment. The best answer though, is really what you feel comfortable with. My opinion (and it is just an opinion) is that there would not be a difference in the service life of a bike changed every 1,500 miles and one changed every 5,000 miles. Given to low sump volume and the tendency to consume oil at highway speeds (at least with my bike) I would think keeping the oil level topped off would be more important to service life than accelerated change intervals. Just my 2 cents. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR --- Oil Change Frequency Post by bill67 on 01/25/13 at 12:07:26 5E55555C505F5E4445310 wrote:
What is your source for this info?[/quote] I don't know what you have been doing the last 40-60 years,But i have had a lot of cars, motorcycles,lawnmowers, generators and other engines,And the American engines oils get a lot dirtier.And I'm not a teacher I don't have to look in a book to learn.And when you look in that book you only get the authors ideas. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by Oldfeller on 01/25/13 at 12:26:48 Also, for those who like to think about such .... the oils we do recommend on the Recommended Oils Listing are some very good oils. Especially the "temperature proof" full synthetics. Indeed, they all "technically" could go multi-year between oil changes except for the two facts of gearbox shear and silica (dust) build up over time that are still throwing a wrench into the long life works. And everybody is right, if you have an oil consuming Savage your make up oil keeps everything "fresh enough" when just considering the additive packages. ------ for example, Verslagen .... At his worst oil consumption rate before he did his engine rebuilds, he was adding oil weekly at a rate that actually changed out his oil like twice a year. Me, I only replace half my sump between my yearly oil changes, but I do document my oil changes on the smagnet thread so if you want to see what it looks like just search "supermagnet on oil filter" and you can see what muli-year magnet backed oil filter change would look like. Oil always gets black if you actually ride your bike a lot, no matter what color it starts out as. ========================= All oil wars need a poll, just to see if there is any additional information out there to glean from the discussions. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by bill67 on 01/25/13 at 12:29:51 Motorcycle oils are made with gearbox shear in mind. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by Oldfeller on 01/25/13 at 12:31:47 If you want to see the results, you have to vote for one of the above choices. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR --- Oil Change Frequency Post by hexnut on 01/25/13 at 13:00:23 gone fishing |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR --- Oil Change Frequency Post by verslagen1 on 01/25/13 at 13:10:56 656E6B6B3130070 wrote:
What is your source for this info?[/quote] I don't know what you have been doing the last 40-60 years,But i have had a lot of cars, motorcycles,lawnmowers, generators and other engines,And the American engines oils get a lot dirtier.And I'm not a teacher I don't have to look in a book to learn.And when you look in that book you only get the authors ideas.[/quote] Thanks bill, I knew American products where much better than foreign. American oils have a much better additive package tha j-oil. And so they clean the engine much better. Buy american! |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR --- Oil Change Frequency Post by SALB on 01/25/13 at 19:07:19 272C29297372450 wrote:
::) ::) ::) ::) On the other hand, I have noticed that in the past 25 or so years, that in the newer motors with tighter clearances and fuel injection(cleaner combustion), the oil stays cleaner longer. 8-) :P |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR --- Oil Change Frequency Post by Routy on 01/25/13 at 19:25:49 22292C2C7677400 wrote:
Like it or not, Bill is right again ! Not true so much anymore as it used to be, but anyone that says that wasn't true in the past, it the igorant one, not Bill !! :o |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by hexnut on 01/25/13 at 19:32:33 gone fishing |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR --- Oil Change Frequency Post by Digger on 01/25/13 at 19:58:47 444F4A4A1011260 wrote:
Bill, When trying to get at the truth of a matter, it is generally accepted that loaded questions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question) are counterproductive.... I'm just sayin'. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR --- Oil Change Frequency Post by SALB on 01/25/13 at 20:07:41 79545A5A584F3D0 wrote:
Bill, When trying to get at the truth of a matter, it is generally accepted that loaded questions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question) are counterproductive.... I'm just sayin'. [/quote] Ah, but does Bill really want to get to the truth of the matter, or get us all riled up? :-/ |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR --- Oil Change Frequency Post by Cavi Mike on 01/26/13 at 00:00:34 757E7B7B2120170 wrote:
Blaming America's poor manufacturing tolerances on oil? I'm not even sure where to start with that one. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR --- Oil Change Frequency Post by Routy on 01/26/13 at 05:32:53 7A584F507450525C390 wrote:
Blaming America's poor manufacturing tolerances on oil? I'm not even sure where to start with that one.[/quote] Bill didn't say that. He said the oil stayed cleaner a lot longer in engines that were built correctly. Years ago american engines were not built correctly, or should I say, not nearly as good as Jap and others,....and the oil did get dirty much sooner. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by hexnut on 01/26/13 at 06:21:44 gone fishing |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by Oldfeller on 01/26/13 at 07:32:52 The Toyota example is a good one and they did it twice actually, the second time was on a Lexus. IF the Japanese hadn't been so prideful about "designing for sludge" because by then they did understand the issue but knew they would lose face by taking the obvious short term solution that GM took when the Corvette began having sludge issues on a new small block super powerful engine during initial life tests. What did GM do on the Corvette that the Japanese didn't/couldn't do because of company pride and their cultural face issues? It was a very simple thing, and it would have fit in completely with the cost and the luxury nature of the Lexus. I did it automatically when I bought my Acuras and it has worked FLAWLESSLY in 3 of them for over 200,000 miles a piece. What did Corvette do that made the issue not an issue? They required the use of full synthetic oil in the vehicle from the very beginning. ANY car with a turbocharger should do this. ANY car with an overstressed engine (and that includes a lot of trailer hauling large Ford trucks) should do this. Face it, our short oil and filter change interval has more to do with collecting lumps of sludge in the oil filter than with oil, even dino oil. If your oil filter is collecting solidified oil products, you darn well better be changing it every 3,000 miles. But with a good synthetic, there ARE no sludge products. I have been taking apart and collecting the very little bit of trash that actually is caught by my Suzuki oil filter system for a 3 year period when I do it this time. My smagnet will be covered in ferrous trash, but my filter likely will be like it was last time, mostly clean. We will see in the spring, anyway. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by hexnut on 01/26/13 at 07:56:03 gone fishing |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by bill67 on 01/26/13 at 09:36:22 I have used Mobil 1 and nothing but in all my cars and trucks since it came out years ago,My 1st Japanese car was a 1985 Mazda 626.I couldn't believe how it didn't use oil and how clean it was compared the my American vehicles. The American cars have improved in the last 10 to 15 years. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by Oldfeller on 01/26/13 at 10:51:00 Bill is right about the engine cleanliness of Japanese vehicles. American engines weep a little oil at every seal (rocker arm cover, etc etc) and the Japanese vehicles do not weep any oil from anywhere. My oldest Acura was still clean and dry engine-wise when I traded it in. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by WD on 01/26/13 at 15:35:27 You must not have ever played around much with 2.4L Subaru flat 4s. Oil leaking, sludge generating junk heaps. My 72 Super Beetle has cleaner oil than our 95 Subaru. My 94 2.3L Ranger keeps its oil amber for almost a year, and in essence it's nothing more than a fuel infested PINTO engine, with dual ignition. Savage valve train is actually early 1960s Honda, except Soichiro's engineers were smart enough to run the cam in actual caged ball bearings, not in the base metal of the head castings. I popped the top off my 63 Honda 250 twin engine last week, everything is flawless, it all looks factory fresh (until you look in the intake and exhaust ports). If you really think your engine is sludged up, drain the oil, replace with Dex 3 ATF, run it for a couple minutes and change it again. If it is sludged or coked (carboned) up, that will clean it out. And it will be very obviously BLACK coming out if the engine was disgusting inside... There's enough actual oil in ATF that it won't cause any damage. It's basically 5 weight, red dye and soap. Had to use it to deglaze my clutch plates back when Castrol GTX 20W50 was switched from good to energy conserving. Didn't hurt a thing in the engine, the clutch quit slipping, the head got decoked, and the engine has since run a lot cooler. It isn't a close tolerance engine. The oil is going to get dark in a hurry. As long as it doesn't smell burnt, you're fine. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by hexnut on 01/26/13 at 15:54:10 gone fishing |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by WD on 01/26/13 at 16:09:35 :-? All I know is it worked on mine... and that my Chrysler 727 that calls for Dexron-Mercon actually works a LOT better with at least 50% of the fill being Type F... because the dex stuff is too thin... I even use Dex 3 as fork oil... I'd use Type F but it eats fork seal rubber. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by hexnut on 01/26/13 at 16:22:27 gone fishing |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by Routy on 01/28/13 at 06:08:59 Why wasn't the time period recorded along w/ the miliage ? I'm sure we would find that most the higher miliage oil changes occur in shorter time periods,.....like long trips verses shorter trips. :o |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by teggy on 01/28/13 at 06:42:36 I'm a firm believer that an oil change is the cheepest thing you can do to a machine to make it last the longest. If you want to be cheap and skimp on the life blood of your engine than thats your choice. I change my oil every 2K with a new filter. I use only full synthetic oil as well as the manufactures filter. Mobil 1 10-40 is my choice. I also have a sport bike which I run the same oil in and have never had a problem. It's your choice to take care of it or neglect it. I also live in the midwest and only get to ride on the average of 4,000 to 6,000 miles a year, with that said I may only have to change it 2-3 times a year. I buy Mobil 1 at a local store Farm & Fleet for $8.99 a qt my Suzuki dealer sells me a filter for 3 bucks total $21.00 for everything. Seems cheap to me! Or you could fall victim to this: |
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Title: Re: Oil Change Frequency Post by paulmarshall on 01/28/13 at 09:56:34 5C4345425F5869596951434F04360 wrote:
Thats a lot of riding dude. ;) |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by hexnut on 01/28/13 at 17:32:52 gone fishing |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by hexnut on 01/28/13 at 18:39:21 gone fishing |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR -- Change Frequency Post by WD on 01/28/13 at 21:44:13 Paul, on a Savage, 12k isn't that bad. My VN800A saw 44 thousand miles in 18 months. My VN800B saw 4500 miles in 3 months. My Savage was ready for it's dealer break in service in 4 days from new purchase in February 1998. It was reading 1200 miles on day 8 when it went in for the first service (only one ever done at a dealership). Speedometer/odometer broke years ago. In the USA, riding pretty much daily, the miles rack up pretty quickly. Especially on comfortable bikes, my Savage is my "cute little toy motorcycle", in my jackboots I clear 6'4", it is not a comfortable bike... but it is getting there... real seat that raises me 4 inches or so higher than the oem seat, high bars, floorboards that move my feet forward by 5 inches, taller rear shocks, better grips... It's paid for and I still find the bike interesting. |
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