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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1358312246 Message started by Qwapy on 01/15/13 at 20:57:26 |
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Title: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/15/13 at 20:57:26 This is turning out to be like Jaws the movie; “just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water………...” :o I originally open a thread about having problems tuning the bike after some mods I did to it. Thanks to ya’ll expertise and good advice I was able to get rid of all the kinks I found while doing the mods. The bike was running like a million dollar bike, lots of power very responsive, no backfire, no pops, very smooth and responsive. ;D The mods: • Petcock replaced with Raptor (vacuum connection sealed) • Dyna muffler • K&N filter (replacing the one in the air box) • Main 150, Pilot 52.5 (stock), 3 washers on the needle • 2 turns(out) on the screw My bike is a 2005 S40 with 2000 miles on it So I went for a long ride this past weekend (almost 250 miles in two days) to enjoy the “new” bike. It behaved perfect, smooth, very responsive, it did great. 8-) When I returned home I decided to wash it just to keep it clean: took off the seat, the saddle bags, and the tank (I did not want any water to get to the top of the head) I only washed the bottom of the bike, I used a rag and clean the dust of it on the top of the bike, no problem. There was no much dirt, no oil, very clean so I just dust it. Put everything back together and now the bike runs like crap!!!!! It does not hold the idle at all not even with the choke out, nothing. I have to keep the throttle down in order to keep the bike running. Not even turning the idle screw out makes any difference. I can ride it but it feels funny. It’s like riding a 4 cylinder vehicle but only 3 cylinders are working. It feels funny, not the same bike I rode for almost 250 + miles for the last 2 days. The funny thing is that the mid-range seems to be fine because I put the throttle down and it goes, still very responsive but, it feels funny. So, any clues? It cannot be the carb because the carb was working fine, all the backfires and poppings disappeared. Even now, running crappy there is no backfire or poppings at all. Besides, I have not touch the carb at all since the rejetting. Did I accidentally disconnect something that was under the tanks? I am so frustrated, I spent almost three weeks working on the bike and finally I had it better than I thought I could get it to work and now this. :'( I checked the spark plug connection and it is fine, I did not mess with the carb at all or any other component. I only wash it after the long trip I took. I should have left it dirty. >:( Is there anybody that resides in or around Central Florida that can come and give me a hand? Thanks in advance. |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Serowbot on 01/15/13 at 22:34:37 Bummer!... Weird running,.. I generally point people to the petcock... (there's a petcock test in the Tech section)... ... but,.. running so good, and instantly changing after the dust-off you did... odds are... you did something, you didn't intend... Check the connections under the seat... check the vac line to the petcock... Rethink your steps... If nothing shows up,... I can only suggest checking the petcock... PS... stop kicking yourself... I take extra pride in my baby, after a successful mod or fix... It's just a little thing... you'll find it, and all will be fine... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Lucaisrussell on 01/15/13 at 23:21:36 I agree with what he said, it's probably something very simple you just overlooked. I don't have the air box or rear fender on my bike and if I run over a puddle and suck up just a tiny bit of water, it will linger inside the carb and cause the bike to run funny( similar to what you're describing) till I break it apart and give it a quick cleaning. But as long as you use the process of elimination you'll figure it out. Just don't rule things out by assumption, i couldn't figure out why my jets kept clogging up until i found a bolt and washer inside my tank from the previous owner. |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Dave on 01/16/13 at 04:49:40 It sounds like you might have created a vacuum leak. Check the rubber hoses to the carb and petcock. |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/16/13 at 04:53:28 I forgot to mentioned that the Petcock was the first mod I did. Also, the vacuum connection in the carb has been sealed.. That was the first mod I did. I modified the original posting to include that mod. I thought the same thing first and i took the carb a parts (again) and clean it with a carb cleaner (and latex goves). Put it back together and it is still running the same. One thing I learned was that I can dismount and take the carb a parts with my eyes close just like a soldier can take a parts his rifle. I do not think is the carb, although like Dave says, it sounds like a vacuum problem but, there is no vacuum. |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Blinky on 01/16/13 at 06:17:23 Qwapy, I am a little confused. Did you use any water at all or just dust it off? If you sprayed it down, did you check the air box to see if it collected any moisture? The intake is below the seat. My first thought was also a vacuum leak but you seem satisfied this is still solid. Good hunting |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/16/13 at 07:05:44 Blinky wrote on 01/16/13 at 09:17:23 Quote:
Yes, I used water but only in the lower part of the bike. That was the reason I removed the tank, to clean/dust by hand instead of washing the top of the header. No water got to the top of the bike. Never got water close to the air box either. Still, I checked the air box and the intake that comes from the box to the carb, it is all dry. As anybody experience a crack in the top of the distributor cap (on a vehicle of course)? That when it rained or early in the morning the vehicle was running funny (due to the moist getting into the distributor) but, when it was dry it ran like a champ? Well, pretty much how the bike feels. The only difference is that the bike is dry and it still runs like crap :-[ But, the is no vacuum to check (it has been sealed since the Petcock mod) |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by verslagen1 on 01/16/13 at 07:07:13 If you had that much dust on the bike, wouldn't you have more in the air filter? |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/16/13 at 07:15:59 I just wanted to clean the bike after the 250 + miles ride I did. It is not because it was too much dust on the bike. Like I mentioned above, there wasn't too much to clean (at the top) so I just dusted whatever dust was up there. I just did the mod of the filter (K&N) recently, about a week ago. And yes, I checked the filter too and it is OK. Btw, this is not the first time I clean (wash) the bike. So, that's why I think something got disconected when I remove the tank but, I do not know what could it be |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Blinky on 01/16/13 at 08:08:54 I think we are going to nominate you for the coveted "Rider Most Likely to be Snake Bit" award. If you have double and triple checked all the connectors then my only two remaining grasping at straws questions are 1. When did you fill up the tank last and how far did you ride after the fill-up before parking it and breaking everything down? Bad gas? 2. Have you put a tube on the carb vacuum port and applied some suction to make sure there is no leak? Good hunting |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/16/13 at 08:55:44 I put gas on the last 30 miles of my ride. I filled up and went home cruising, no problems. I used the bike earlier in the day I washed the bike. I washed the bike in the afternoon after it was cool (like 5 hours after I last used the bike). I do not think is the gas. The vacuum port on the carb is sealed. What about the "decompression controler"? See picture. That is the only thing I remove from the chassis (did not disconnect it). Just pulled the unit and its rubber mount from the mounting tab on the frame. And put it back as before afterwards. What does this decompression module do? NEVER, disconnected just pulled it from the mounting tab |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by SALB on 01/16/13 at 09:52:09 You say you took the tank off, but did you wash it or wipe it down? I suspect you forced water around the fuel cap gasket or through the vent. Is it at all possible you got water in the carb vent lines or the fuel line you pulled off the petcock? Turn the petcock off and drain the bowl; you will find out real fast. |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/16/13 at 10:08:05 SALB wrote on 01/16/13 at 12:52:09 Quote:
See my posting above: Quote:
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Bubba on 01/16/13 at 11:56:27 I don't think your pic is the decomp...the decomp is on the right side under the tank attached to the frame...has a little rubber boot over it...even so it sholdn't mess with the way the bike runs...it's more for ease of starting... I'd go over all the connections and make sure you didn't wiggle something out...that's about all I have...sorry |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/16/13 at 12:05:25 Per the picture below, it is called the "Decompression Module". the one attached the right side under the tank attached to the frame is the ignition module. Btw, that picture came from the pictures on the Forum (The Motorcycle Handy Man) |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by youzguyz on 01/16/13 at 12:08:06 That IS a picture of the Decomp CONTROLLER. The rest of it consists of the solenoid, linkage, etc that sits on top of the head. If the decomp is stuck (always engaged), your compression would be really crappy. I don't even know if it would run. |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/16/13 at 12:28:16 Youzguyz wrote on 01/16/13 at 15:08:06 Quote:
I do not know if this is the problem. I am not saying it is, I was asking for guidance and what does this unit do? What I was trying to convey was that this is the only thing I moved when I was cleaning the bike (under the tank) I just detached it from the tab, and put it back. Here is mine: |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by youzguyz on 01/16/13 at 12:57:40 What it does is fire the decomp solenoid (for about 1/2 second) when you start the bike. That solenoid opens the exhaust valve so the piston can go to TDC on the compression stroke with less resistance (no compression). That allows the starter to spin it past that point and get some momentum going. Then the solenoid goes back to a rest state, the exhaust valve will be closed on the next compression stroke. IF the decomp solenoid was stuck, or the controller kept it always fired, or the link was not adjusted right, the exhaust valve would always be partially open. Not a good thing. |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/16/13 at 13:11:52 Thanks youzguyz, I do not have that problem (thanks God) mine is that I do not have any iddle whatsoever (out of the blue). Trying to troubleshoot and traceback my steps when I cleaned the bike. What did I touch that screwed up the iddle? it was runing fine until then |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by youzguyz on 01/16/13 at 13:35:26 What I would do: Turn petcock to ON.. make sure there is gas in the float bowl. Turn petcock OFF and pull the tank. Check all connectors. Start the bike (leave the tank OFF THE BIKE). Wiggle connectors and wires to see if the problem might be electrical. You have enough gas in the bowl to go a while like that. My gut suspicion is the high voltage line to the spark plug. Make sure it is seated well on the plug. Move it away from anything else as much as you can (in case it has a crack and is jumping to ground)... and watch out touching it with the bike running. :o |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/16/13 at 13:44:07 youzguyz wrote on 01/16/2013 at 16:35:26 Quote:
Being there, done that. I did that last evening. The plug is seated well. I wiggle the cables while it was running to see if the idle change but, no luck. It has to be something simple, just cannot figure out “what”. If you read my original posting you can see I was doing great, running smooth and strong. I just wanted to clean the darn bike… The bike look nice! It’s all clean :-/ “All dressed up and nowhere to go” |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by oldNslow on 01/16/13 at 14:10:26 It's possible that washing/cleaning your bike didn't actually have anything to do with what's going on. Might be just coincidence. If you haven't already checked, I think you ought to pull the spark plug out and take a look at the electrode. Or even just replace it and see what happens. |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Digger on 01/16/13 at 21:04:27 Several people have mentioned water in the fuel. You might want to drain the float bowl, just to silence the mob..... Good luck! |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/17/13 at 05:17:53 Digger wrote on 01/17/2013 at 00:04:27 Quote:
I know. I’ve already taken the carb a part (again) and cleaned it. Changed the fuel on the tank also. Still runs the same (no change) |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by oldNslow on 01/17/13 at 06:51:10 If you are convinced the the problem is not the fuel - you have checked the tank and carb a couple of times - I still think you need to change the spark plug before you do anything else. Even if it's not the problem, you need to eliminate the simple things before you go ripping stuff apart. |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/17/13 at 12:04:16 oldNslow wrote on 01/17/2013 at 09:51:10 Quote:
Guess what my friend? I do not understand why but, I changed the plug and VIOLA!!! Got my monster back!!! And just to ensure it was the plug, I put the old plug back and it ran like crap again. Now, can anybody here explain to me what the heck happened? This was the original plug the bike came with and the bike just turned 2000 miles last weekend so, “theoretically” the plug is new, correct? I am a logical person; I am not a "just because person". Things happened for a reason there is always a cause and effects. Why or what was the cause for the plug to fail? Attached is a picture of the old plug and the new plug. The gap in both plus was the same, it looks different because of the angle of the photo. Thanks ”old man” ;), you were correct |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by BuckRYCA on 01/17/13 at 12:37:02 It is just me? Doesn't the gap on the old plug look a lot smaller than the gap on the new one? |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/17/13 at 12:43:18 It looks that way but it is the same gap, it is just the angle of the picture. I checked the gap ;) |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by oldNslow on 01/17/13 at 13:48:56 Qwapy, Glad you're runnin' again. I agree that a plug should last more than 2000 miles but the fact is sometimes they don't. And you can't always tell by just looking at them that they aren't any good. The ignition system in these bikes is pretty primitive by todays standards and we're dealing with a one cylinder engine after all. Without a good hot spark a motor like ours just won't run right. From the picture, the plug you took out looks kind of dark to me. Might be an indication that you are running a little rich. The insulator around the center electrode should ideally be a light tan color and should not have any evidence of being wet. The owners manual reccomends replacing the plug every 7500 miles. That's a really short interval nowadays. I think Suzuki is admitting by that interval that the ignition system isn't all that great. |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/17/13 at 14:03:06 Yes, it was pretty dark but dry. |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by youzguyz on 01/17/13 at 14:15:23 Quote:
I claim half a point! :P Glad you found the issue. Hate it when stuff like that happens... |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/17/13 at 18:47:28 Go to take the bike for a long ride to see how it behaves. It should be ok. But, we can never assume, we have to "test" to ensure it is working properly. |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by teggy on 01/17/13 at 20:07:53 Being in the automotive business myself I would have to say the plugs porcilen has a crack. If you want to see if its from a cracked plug re-install it and fire it up in the dark to see if you can see a fun little light show. |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/18/13 at 19:26:14 Ok folks, I took the bike for a long ride (not a 250+ ride again) and it is running fine. Now, it may be my imagination but the bike even though is running fine, has a lot of pick up power , and it goes just as it did before the troubles with the idle is not as smooth as it used to be. Don't know? Maybe I need to play with the pilot screw (again)? Before, when I was going to slow down or coming to a stop you felt the throttle disengaging real quick and I had to look at the tach (yes, I have a tach) to check if the bike was still running, it was that smooth, real smooth. Now, when I let go the throttle it stays engaged a bit longer and then it stars to disengage real slowly (not as fast as before). Does anybody know what I am talking about? |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by oldNslow on 01/20/13 at 07:11:15 Few ideas. 1. If your tach is connected to the spark plug or the coil check those connections or dissconnect it temporarly and see if it makes any difference. 2. Try tweaking the idle mixture screw. Read Lancer's posts in the tech section about carb tuning. 3. Make sure you have some slack in the throttle cable, so it's letting the throttle close all the way. You should be able to twist the grip a little bit before you feel it start to pull the cable. 4.If your bike idles around 1000 rpm, doesn't stall when you roll the throtle off, or when you are sitting at a stop light with the throttle closed, and doesn't hesitate or stumble when you take off, don't worry about it. I'm not being a smart a**, so please don't take offense. I just don't think it's possible to make one of thse bikes idle as smooth as a bike with a mutli cylinder engine. |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Qwapy on 01/20/13 at 09:12:02 oldNSlow, I don't take offense as a matter of fact I appreciate you' all guys inputs. I've learned so much since I got my bike. And yes, the bike does not stall when stop. It is just I thought it was a lot smoother before (again, maybe is my imagination). But, for now I have to stop for a couple of weeks twenkering with the bike, just got a short assignment in Alexandria, VA so I have to get ready, pack and go. Leaving the sunny 80 degrees Florida for the cold 18 degrees Northern Virginia. Not that I don't like it but I'd rather go in the spring, summer or fall. Winter? brrrrrr :-X Qwapy |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by oldNslow on 01/20/13 at 09:49:16 My home town. I grew up in Falls Church. If you get some free time while you're there check out Coleman Powersports in Falls Church and Patriot Harley Davidson in Fairfax. Nice folks, and LOTS of bikes to drool over. |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/20/13 at 11:37:00 When the plug starts being a problem, its time to do the spark plug door mod. Pulling the tank to swap plugs is just ridikkuluss! |
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Title: Re: Bike acting up - Running like crap (no idle) Post by Digger on 01/24/13 at 18:51:11 6D7274736E6958685860727E35070 wrote:
Don't really need to pull the tank in its entirety. You can pull the seat (very easy to do, just remove 2 bolts), then remove the two bolts from the fuel tank's rear bracket. Remove the line(s) from the petcock, then move tank rearward a bit then up a bit. From there, prop the rear of the fuel tank up with a short section of 4" x 4" (laid on its side). You should have enough access now to remove the port chrome cover from the top of the engine and then get to the plug. Using this method, you don't have to disconnect the speedometer cable or the electrical cable from the fuel tank. IHTH someone! |
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