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Message started by Lucaisrussell on 01/08/13 at 20:54:59

Title: Suicide shifter
Post by Lucaisrussell on 01/08/13 at 20:54:59

Hey everyone! I'm new to the fourm and decided to join because there is some very good information floating around here. My 95 savage is pretty "bobbed" out and I'd like to go a few steps futher if plausible. I'd really like to do a write up on a DIY suicide shifter but I'm looking for some ideas on how to run the clutch cable. The clutch lever I could do easy but I'm stumped on a praticle, DIY way to run this cable. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Also on a side note, anybody ever heard of converting this bike over to kickstart and rerunning wires for AC?

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Cavi Mike on 01/08/13 at 21:41:22

I'd run the cable backwards, underneath the bike.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Lucaisrussell on 01/09/13 at 10:20:20

I still need to be able to move that lever upwards to push in the clutch.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Cavi Mike on 01/09/13 at 10:22:57

The liner moves instead of the cable. It doesn't matter which side is fixed as long as the other side moves.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Demin on 01/09/13 at 10:24:29

No.Mount the cable between the pivot and the pedal/peg.When you push on it,it releases the clutch.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Dave on 01/09/13 at 11:08:08

So....is this an attempt to keep anyone from wanting to borrow or ride your bike?

It has been a while since I have ridden a motorcycle with a foot clutch. I rode an Indian Chief and the foot clutch was a rocker affair and it would stay wherever it was when you pulled your foot off - it was rideable but definetly not convenient. I also rode an Indian 4 cylinder that had a spring loaded clutch like a car......it was definetly scary as the clutch was engaged whenever you took your foot off the pedal. If you are starting to move and lose your balance and need to use your left foot to gain balance.......you cannot release the clutch?

For a bike that is ridden - the hand clutch and foot shifter is far more convenient and safe..............even if it doesn't look as vintage or cool!

Back to the Indian......Talk about screwing up my riding routine. The right foot operated the brake, and that was the only thing that was normal for me on that bike. The right hand controlled the shifter and the right handlebar grip operated spark advance, the left hand operated the throttle grip, and the left foot operated the clutch. Talk about messing around with my head? :o

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by hexnut on 01/09/13 at 11:32:46

gone fishing

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/09/13 at 13:42:35

Im sure theres a real good reason to make a bike harder to ride & less safe, but Ill be danged if I can figure it out..

OHH,, Yea,, theres the casual observer saying stuff like "Ohh, thats COOL!" & "Wow,, looka that,, " Those "appreciations" will do you a world of good in a tight spot in traffic.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Charon on 01/09/13 at 14:59:46

Only machine I ever rode with a foot clutch and tank-mounted hand shifter was a Cushman Eagle (and another Cushman scooter whose model number I never did know). At least on the Cushmans the clutch was centrifugal, and dropped out by itself at idle. The foot pedal would release the clutch when the engine was at speed, so the two-speed transmission could be shifted. I learned how to double-clutch on the Cushman, so as to get it back into Low.

When the controls on a motorcycle are altered so as to be in non-standard configuration, whatever resale value the machine may have is destroyed because it is very unlikely anyone else would want it, other than maybe for some of its parts.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by MShipley on 01/09/13 at 15:24:58

I got to side with j-o-g. I have a bobber, love the look and all that...I get a lot of atention with it....it is one thing to compromise a little comfort for cool....it is another to compromise safety for cool. Think hard on this change before you do it. If you decide to move forward then OK I wish you the best of luck.

I have never riddin a suicide shift or foot clutch bike. I have seen some where the clutch release is on the shifter. when I do (ushually in custom Harley mags.) I often wonder. What if the throttle locks. How do you let go of the throttle, disengage the clutch and steer at the same time? :-/

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Cavi Mike on 01/09/13 at 16:49:12

I'm not positive but I got the impression he is putting the clutch lever on the shifter handle. Single hand operation. Then simply run the cable down the handle, under the bottom of the bike and back up to the actuator arm.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by MShipley on 01/09/13 at 16:57:10

Exactly.....so if your sitting on a hill and your left hand is operating the shifter wwhich is also the clutch so your left hand is not on the handle bar. Your right hand is feathering the throttle along with the brake unless you are holding position with the foot brake. No real control there on the handle bars. Seems awfuly dangerous and uncomfortable.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Face on 01/09/13 at 18:34:57

Obviously, safety first. But don't let anyone discourage you. If you're comfortable with your abilities, and it's what you really want to do, do it. And post pics!

One thought. Exile Cycles offers a twist clutch. Same idea as the throttle, but actuates the clutch cable. This way the cable itself would run inside the shift lever. Clean looks, and everybody would be trying to figure out how the hell you clutch!

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Cavi Mike on 01/09/13 at 19:18:55

425C67667F636A760F0 wrote:

You shouldn't be in gear when you're stopped. You should already be in neutral before you even come to a stop.

I'm actually in agreement about the safety of it all but it just more seems like too much of a hassle to bother with a separate lever. It's clearly nothing more than aesthetics and not something I feel like dealing with when I'm riding.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/10/13 at 05:16:52

4664736C486C6E60050 wrote:

I'm not positive but I got the impression he is putting the clutch lever on the shifter handle. Single hand operation.

Thats less treacherous,, yea, but, what is quicker & safer than a clutch lever on the handlebars ( which is typically where I want my hands) & a lever for the foot to move up or down?

Im always doing what I call Mental Exercises. Lets try one,,

Lets say that bikes havent yet become common. People are just building what they can,,Once a few had been on the roads, someone said
"Hey! Im gonna take a piece of metal & build something to keep that tire from slingin crap on me!"
& that would have been called Progress.

& back before they had figured out how to build a good shifter they
had slow & cumbersome shifters.

Ill keep hands on the bars. There JUST may be a reason they call those slow, cumbersome shifting mechanisms "suicide shifters"..

If cars didnt come with seat belts, how many would complain?

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Charon on 01/10/13 at 06:41:32

I also disagree with Cavi's statement that I should be in Neutral before coming to a stop. The MSF teaches that I should be in Low, or First if you prefer, and stop with the clutch disengaged. This has the bike ready for immediate movement should I detect a car approaching from any direction which might not stop before it hits me. They also teach that I should have stopped with an escape route preplanned, such as alongside the car stopped in front of me.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Dave on 01/10/13 at 06:44:40

7E555C4F52533D0 wrote:

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Charon on 01/10/13 at 06:53:16

407B7661707C67617A727F60130 wrote:

[quote author=7E555C4F52533D0 link=1357707301/15#15 date=1357828892]I also disagree with Cavi's statement that I should be in Neutral before coming to a stop. The MSF teaches that I should be in Low, or First if you prefer, and stop with the clutch disengaged. This has the bike ready for immediate movement should I detect a car approaching from any direction which might not stop before it hits me. They also teach that I should have stopped with an escape route preplanned, such as alongside the car stopped in front of me.

This great.......but we were talking about a hand shifter and a left foot clutch. If you approached the stop with the bike in neutral - you would be able to take your foot off the clutch and place it on the ground for stability. If you left it in gear - your left foot would have to stay on the clutch pedal (if the clutch pedal has a spring return).[/quote]

That's probably the reason the old Indians, and probably the Harleys as well, had an over-center spring on the clutch pedal. That over-center spring held the clutch pedal down until the driver used the heel part of the pedal to release it. Removing the over-center spring turns the clutch into a "suicide clutch."

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by WD on 01/10/13 at 08:01:25

Go to the website for The Horse Backstreet Choppers. Start looking for the article on converting a Triumph to foot clutch with hand shift if you want a pedal clutch. Very easy conversion.

You can set it all up off the lever fairly easily if you get your hands on some 7/8" handlebar scrap, a clutch perch and handle, and can get a custom cable made up somewhere (check a lawn mower repair shop).

Prefer a bell crank set-up with rods instead of a cable (zero cable slack issues, but watch for linkage binding). Stock throttle rods off a 48-60 Plymouth 218/230 L6 are just about the right size, NAPA sells the little ball studs they pivot on.

On a "normal" bike where the shifter mounting stud is visible, the conversion is easy. On a bike like a Savage, where the stud is not readily accessible, the conversion can be a royal pain in the a$$. I had mine almost done, swapped it back to stock.

Get in touch with some of the metric friendly custom shops and see what they say. Start with Dime City Cycles and go from there...

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Cavi Mike on 01/10/13 at 18:05:20

I figured someone would argue the point about "being ready" at a stop. If you don't have the reflexes to pop it in gear real quick and take off, you don't have the reflexes to pull away at all.

I care about the longevity of the parts in my bike. Sitting there riding the clutch at idle with zero oil pressure is only going to cause premature wear. No one rides their clutch at stops except for newbies.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Cavi Mike on 01/10/13 at 18:06:10

And where is this guy anyways? 2 pages about this and the guy hasn't even replied.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/10/13 at 18:06:58

Maybe he was hoping for more "Ohhh COOL!"

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by ZAR on 01/10/13 at 18:30:34

233C3A3D20271626162E3C307B490 wrote:

Maybe he was hoping for more "Ohhh COOL!"

From this bunch???

Come on JOG ;)

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Lucaisrussell on 01/11/13 at 08:50:26

Wells thanks for the suggestions everyone. I wish more of you would have gave some ideas instead of discouraging me because sometimes its about customization and making the bike personal, not what's most practicle. At the same time I do appresheate fellow riders looking out for each others safety since it is such a huge part of riding and I can see how I could put myself in jeopardy if my throttle stock, I came to a stop on a big hill, or if I had to make a quick evasive maneuver to avoid a hazzard. So what I've decided to do is buy a new clutch cable and lever a d go threw with the sucide shifter. I'll make the lever bolt on so it will be easy to remove and can go back to stock setting if need be. I'll be starting this little project early febuary( I'm moving from CA to NY) and ill post up some pictures n what I did. Take care, god bless, semper fi, ride safe

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by MShipley on 01/11/13 at 09:15:17

I dont think anyone wanted to discouraged you, that was not the intention. You never know what skill levels people have. Just wanted you to think it through. I know for myself I have jumped in and done something just to wish someone had pointed out the problems first. PS, Love the suicide shifter look myself it would be awesome on a boober.

Someone above mentioned a foot clutch. Now that sounds interesting. I was thinkin about this last night. I live where deer are prevelent. Have had to come to a sudden stop quick on a few occasions, last thing I would want to do is take my hands off the bars to disengage the clutch. Especially since I have had the back of the bike wanting to come around the front. With a foot clutch you could still hit front brake, rearbrake and disingage cluth while having a firm grip on the bars. Wont be able to downshift but that is OK.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by teabowl13 on 01/12/13 at 11:23:40

It's also a VERY uncommon mod on a Savage; I doubt many people here have attempted it. Most riders these days, like myself have no experience with that kind of shifter either...

You might get better technical advice on how to set it up by posting your question to a chopper/bobber forum. Try googling for "Suicide Shifter" and "Suicide Shift Conversion" That may give you more technical help and ideas; even if it's intended for a different bike...

I'd never do it, but I wish you the best of luck!!
Cheers!

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by WD on 01/12/13 at 14:12:51

Look at the pics about halfway down THIS page...http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=27638.210

Scratch head, drink a beer, read the entire build thread, read his blog, scratch head some more... Dude knows what he's doing...

And yeah, he MADE all those finned aluminum parts...

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by rfw2003 on 01/12/13 at 14:49:31

6C7F3B0 wrote:

Word of warning if you goto his blog. It is most DEFINITELY NOT work safe!!!!!!

The guy does some nice work though I'll have to admit. :)

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by Dave on 01/12/13 at 16:10:45

110F34352C3039255C0 wrote:

I dont think anyone wanted to discouraged you, that was not the intention.

I'm trying to discourage him.....Why do you think it is called a Suicide Shifter?

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/12/13 at 19:18:13

Dear Mr Shipley

If I failed to make my intentions clear

I would like to discourage you in your endeavors to build a different shift mechanism that requires more dexterity or requires your hand to be removed from the handlebar.

Thats what I was saying to the Original Poster

Im surprised that that wasnt clear & obvious/.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by MShipley on 01/12/13 at 19:22:16

I apollogize that I spoke for others. Did not intend to.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by WD on 01/13/13 at 09:08:01

I wasn't trying to discourage, but, my first 4 bikes were foot clutch tank shift. I never finished the conversion on mine because the shifter stub is such a pain in the neck to access.

Once you get good with the set up it is no harder than driving a 3-5 speed car.

Title: Re: Suicide shifter
Post by arteacher on 01/13/13 at 10:11:13

7755425D795D5F51340 wrote:

I always have it in gear at a stop. It has saved me from getting rear ended once. Someone was coming to a stop behind me, miss judged, slammed on the brakes, and would not have made the stop. If I would have had it in neutral I would not have had time to jog the bike forward enough to avoid being rear ended. What ever wear and tear I add to the bike is far better than wear and tear on my body. That's why the motorcycle safety course teaches it that way.
Also it's the reason the shift pattern designed into all modern bikes when down-shifting is the way it is.
That said- if I know the light is going to be a long one, or I am stopped for a train, and the guy behind me has stopped safely, I will put it in neutral or shut it down as necessary.